|
On August 18 2017 07:33 Paramisery wrote: Lazare what does beating me in TvT with low apm have to do with me asking for help in TvP? That's like saying I'm having difficulty playing baseball and you chime in to say that you'll beat me in basketball. If you want me to say you're a better player than me, that's fine, I acknowledged that I'm not good from the start. Do you need to feel good about yourself by trying to publicly shame someone who admits they suck and is frustrated? No, I wanted to prove that focusing on APM is meaningless at your level. Disable the APM counter because it's not what you should be focusing on.
Download the mine laying micro map Skyhigh_Vulture_Micro.scm. Place it in C:\Users\username\Documents\Starcraft\Maps\Download so you can load it in the game. Practice it until you're confident with your mine micro. It's a neat map that helps you practice killing goons that don't have an observer. Against goons you want to place them as close as possible, whereas against zealots you'll want to place them further away. Here's a video preview of the map (he's doing it incorrectly because the mines are too far, but you'll get the idea).
|
On August 18 2017 07:33 Paramisery wrote: Lazare what does beating me in TvT with low apm have to do with me asking for help in TvP? That's like saying I'm having difficulty playing baseball and you chime in to say that you'll beat me in basketball. If you want me to say you're a better player than me, that's fine, I acknowledged that I'm not good from the start. Do you need to feel good about yourself by trying to publicly shame someone who admits they suck and is frustrated? If Terran doesnt work out for you the other races are easier to learn. At an early level Terran is by far the hardest race to play anyway unforgiving in all aspects even vs worse players. Though TvZ is equally as hard from a zerg perspective i'd say.
|
Hello Paramisery,
All right you said that you are a beginner in using terran race . How about providing us some replays of your matchup TvX, it could be ranging from TvP,TvZ,TvT . I wouldn't be so demoralized if i were you, the amount of cheese and stupid stuff I died to protoss are countless . Lots of all ins protoss can do to you is staggering as a newbie terran you have to adapt and know what to do if situations like this happen. As mention earlier , I am sure if you provide us some demos and replays we could help take a look at your game and conclude where you are standing and what kind of a player you are and which areas you should improve . B/O wise , strategy wise, macro and micro wise and etc.
|
Terran is the hardest race to play in both BW and SC2 due to having literally no units that you can a-move, but there are great rewords for playing Terran when you have high APM.
I think it's natural for a Terran player to lose a lot in the beginning.
|
Wanted to chime in to say that at low levels, TvP is really frustrating, I have been playing for 7-8 years as a Terran with an average of 260 eapm and my TvP win rate is: hovering at about 32-35%.
The amount of stuff a P can throw at you in the first 8 minutes of the game is amazing, you will die to:
reavers, dt and dt drops, zealot rushes, the proxying of reavers, dts and proxying extra gateways so that when you think they are doing 1 gate FE, 15 goons come at you.
Then there is gas steal, manner pylons and building pylons where your factory add on is supposed to be.
Having all this done to me countless of times will make you a smarter player, so now, when I scout: - I know to count how many pylons a protoss has in their base (should be equal to the number of supplies you have), and this will rule out a proxy - whether or not their cybernetics core is spinning (rules out any fast tech)
- Also I have learned what to do when your gas gets stolen or how to build my buildings so that it can only leak marines but not zealots.
Doing all of the above doesn't need intense apm, just needs an ability to absorb and process information. I mean, if you do move of the above right, you won't have to worry about DTs/reavers being dropped or snuck into your base.
Once you block all that, and go into mid-late game, that's when you should worry about apm :D
|
On August 18 2017 16:25 [Fin]Vittu wrote: Wanted to chime in to say that at low levels, TvP is really frustrating, I have been playing for 7-8 years as a Terran with an average of 260 eapm and my TvP win rate is: hovering at about 32-35%.
The amount of stuff a P can throw at you in the first 8 minutes of the game is amazing, you will die to:
reavers, dt and dt drops, zealot rushes, the proxying of reavers, dts and proxying extra gateways so that when you think they are doing 1 gate FE, 15 goons come at you.
Then there is gas steal, manner pylons and building pylons where your factory add on is supposed to be.
Having all this done to me countless of times will make you a smarter player, so now, when I scout: - I know to count how many pylons a protoss has in their base (should be equal to the number of supplies you have), and this will rule out a proxy - whether or not their cybernetics core is spinning (rules out any fast tech)
- Also I have learned what to do when your gas gets stolen or how to build my buildings so that it can only leak marines but not zealots.
Doing all of the above doesn't need intense apm, just needs an ability to absorb and process information. I mean, if you do move of the above right, you won't have to worry about DTs/reavers being dropped or snuck into your base.
Once you block all that, and go into mid-late game, that's when you should worry about apm :D damn are you korean pro?
|
I queue up units sometimes. I might have macroed really poorly for a while when controlling something and then I sometimes just queue up my raxes or facts.
The problem is that if you queue 5 vultures after battle and then you reach his base with the push and a surprise carrier greets you then you probably want to cancel some and add Goliaths so I recommend scanning a bit before doing so.
I give you this advice so you can win more right now :-) And after you did it you have more time for adding long term solutions such as more factories, bases, upgrades etc.
I also recommend going into single player on all the maps and send one scv to each base and use the cheats for money and build time and practice base building. Or you can do it in the map editor. A pretty base is often important so macro is more smooth and you can get back in to fight mutas and recalled units.
Terran is very hard now compared to when I played in 2008. All protoss do nice walls against vultures and both zerg and terran use spell casters in a much better way.
I think I am at 12-9 on EU ladder right now and my apm is very low. About 100 I think
|
On August 18 2017 16:25 [Fin]Vittu wrote: Wanted to chime in to say that at low levels, TvP is really frustrating, I have been playing for 7-8 years as a Terran with an average of 260 eapm and my TvP win rate is: hovering at about 32-35%.
260 apm or 160 eapm? No way you have an average of 260 eapm.
|
So Lazare, you're going to show me that apm doesn't mean much by beating me and posting it on youtube to publicly shame me for losing to you? That'll definitely make me not only want to continue playing the game, but also really want to jump right in and be a part of a community that does stuff like that...
Anyway, thanks for the encouragement from everyone else, I'll save a few replays if I'm not completely embarassed by my play. Where should I go to upload them? Again, I played a ton when the game launched, but I really haven't touched it since maybe 2002 so I may as well call myself new again.
|
Fight on !
You'll likely need more than 100 apm as a Terran player, but there certainly are adjustments to style that will work with lower requirements, and are fine to use as a beginner starting out.
Honestly, I'd suggest 1 base pressure builds for you to start with. You'd get to play with 1 base worth of production and unit amount/control, and that's an okay way to start improving your fundamentals. Will also get you some wins against opponents of your skill level, and be in general fun to play, too.
After that you can transition to various FE openings, focusing on non-stop scv production, handling various types of early aggression, etc - it'll be more fun when you already have some fundamentals developed.
Starting out with repetition of solid macro builds & learning the adjustments and proper reactions to whatever BS that can get thrown at you - that's certainly a shortcut to success, but it isn't for everyone who's picking up a new game and isn't sure if they want to commit or not. Try various things, do what you enjoy, find ways to do what you enjoy better, and expand your play style from that. I bet that's how most of us got to where we are now.
|
Paramisery is still be willing to help also if you would like. I'm Hivolt on east and I'm on every evening. We played a game and then you didn't want to watch replay with me when I offered to help . I think maybe you were frustrated.
When playing this game it is like an instrument. You can't just pick it up and play ( well not great), but when you do learn it is very satisfying to win because you know what you are accomplishing.
Good luck in your endeavor and I will take time to help any way I can in the evenings eastern time.
|
Soulforged thanks, one base pressure is probably at least a start for me, and Hivolt, yes I was frustrated and just wanted to stop playing after our game (kinda like most times when I play protoss anymore). I'm 0-2 vs. toss again today.
|
I'm helping out a beginner friend as well, and the method that we've been trying out that works for him is setting targets based on the in-game timer.
Why? For beginners, obsessing over APM and super tight build orders are actually a distraction. You just refine it as you go on. Just open every game with the standard 8 supply 10 rax 11 refinery and move on from there. simple.
So first, make sure in the options turn your in-game timer on.
Then try this. The basic idea is that you move out with a small army around 5 minutes, with the goal of trying to end the game by 6-7 minutes.
Examples:
vs. zerg: move out at 5 minutes where you have 8 marines 2 firebats 2 medics and stimpack researched. vs. protoss/terran: move out at 5 minutes with 8 marines and 1 tank. follow up with vultures with mines
So what this does: 1. It puts you in the mindset that you have to be out on the map, putting pressure on the enemy, even ending the game early. 2. It forces you to reverse engineer things and refine a build order. To get a small army by 5 minutes, what do I need to build and how much do I need? 3. Eventually it teaches you macro. Your mindset should be prepared for mid/late game always. So when you move out, make sure to expand, macro, and such.
Hope this helps!
|
On August 18 2017 23:46 sabas123 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2017 16:25 [Fin]Vittu wrote: Wanted to chime in to say that at low levels, TvP is really frustrating, I have been playing for 7-8 years as a Terran with an average of 260 eapm and my TvP win rate is: hovering at about 32-35%.
260 apm or 160 eapm? No way you have an average of 260 eapm.
woops, you're right. meant to say 160 eapm. and 260 is just the spammy one.
|
Haha I wanted to start a similar thread and was happy to find this one but after reading everything it is kind frightening tbh :D I am in EU as well btw.
|
On August 18 2017 15:22 DemigodcelpH wrote: Terran is the hardest race to play in both BW and SC2 due to having literally no units that you can a-move, but there are great rewords for playing Terran when you have high APM.
I think it's natural for a Terran player to lose a lot in the beginning.
no units that you can a-move
that's funny, marines and medics do absolutely fine against sunkens when attack moved
|
On August 19 2017 08:32 iopq wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2017 15:22 DemigodcelpH wrote: Terran is the hardest race to play in both BW and SC2 due to having literally no units that you can a-move, but there are great rewords for playing Terran when you have high APM.
I think it's natural for a Terran player to lose a lot in the beginning. that's funny, marines and medics do absolutely fine against sunkens when attack moved
Only in large enough number, for example in standard tvz you rely on the tanks to bust the sunkens.
|
TLADT24918 Posts
OP, my advice to you is to play what's fun. Do more 1 base plays. Heck, go bio for a while against Protoss.
|
"So I've been trying to play a bit in excitement for the remaster and I can't seem to win a single game"
as a long time terran user i can only advice you to switch to toss race. Dont thank me.
|
Take it easy man. I feel your pain. Check your PM. Also, 3v3 can be pretty damn fun.
|
|
|
|