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I think the story was fine, though my main complaint was the massive Dues Ex Machina that the artifact served as.
I've never played SC1, so I guess the shittiness of Mengsk wasn't a problem for me.
Other than that, I definitely WANTED them to fix Kerrigan, but I think the whole "you know that relic you've been gathering? it will turn her back!" was lazy and poorly written.
I don't think the campaign was short, though I was playing on Brutal from the start.
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Landing successfully on char seemed weird, was hoping for nukes clearing a landing zone, would have been more badass.
Hope the expacs have more depth (and they come sooner than 2-3 years away) but oh well, a near perfectly balanced RTS is the only thing that can satisfy everyone.
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The campaign story was lame. But i enjoyed playing, and the Kerrigan betrayed cinematic was absolutely awesome.
And its not like BW didnt have convenient illogical and lame parts to its campaign.
Now I just want to know how they are going to have characters in the Zerg third of the campaign? Are we going to play a Hydralisk, pulling together his ragtag gang of zerg to bring Kerrigan back?
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On August 07 2010 03:23 Blaec wrote: The campaign story was lame. But i enjoyed playing, and the Kerrigan betrayed cinematic was absolutely awesome.
And its not like BW didnt have convenient illogical and lame parts to its campaign.
Now I just want to know how they are going to have characters in the Zerg third of the campaign? Are we going to play a Hydralisk, pulling together his ragtag gang of zerg to bring Kerrigan back?
No, you'll probably play Kerrigan. She'll happily agree to join Raynor & Co. and add the Zerg to his forces (I think the Zergy hair left over is an indicator that she's not completely cured and can still control the Zerg - otherwise what was the point of the prophecy? If she can't control them anymore, then Raynor just fucked everyone in the butt), so she will have to rebuild her power...again...by zipping around the galaxy picking up Zerg strains and evolutions.
Then, on Mission 21, she'll probably go AWOL, when Mengsk makes himself vulnerable somehow, and go kick his ass.
Sound familiar?
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
good narration, poor story.
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On August 06 2010 18:34 fathead wrote:
This is by far your most valid point and I felt the same way times 10. It felt much much shorter then the original, despite being more expensive than most games. In fact for a campaign marketed as the most epic thing in history, it was VERY lacking, in fact it felt MUCH less epic that many of the games I played in recent past that were 10-20 bucks cheaper.
However, for the rest of your post I think you are being too harsh. I would guess most people here are in the 18-35 demographic which means most of us played SC1 when we were teens/preteens, back when we were young and impressionable, and didn't know what a good story really looked liked.
What we forget is that SC/BW's story wasn't really that great, it was also full of holes and lacked character motivation; its time line seems unrealistic (all those events of SC + BW taking less than a year?), and it lacked for sight; many of the holes I found in SC2 were the result of SC's story being made up as they went along. The fact is that most game's stories suck. The only ones that are decent are the adventure games, of which their whole selling point is the story, and the game is built from the ground up around that fact.
At its core SC will always be a competitive online game. The story will always be the second or even third priority (I would say game mechanics 1, balance 2). By that standard SC had an amazing story. I can't think of many other games built from the ground up for online competition who's single player was on par with SC. True, there are many games that far surpass SC's single player by leaps and bounds but they are supposed to, since most of them don't even have a multi-player option, and is focused on story telling.
If you ever play a game like The Longest Journey or Deus Ex or one of the classic Sierra/Lucas game, or my personal favorite Vampire Bloodlines; you will know what the height of gaming storytelling can be. SC2 doesn't reach those heights, but to pretend SC1 did is to fall in the trap of nostalgic revisionist memory. What SC2 offers is a squeal and update to the greatest pro league game of all time. It is by that standard that you can criticize its single player.
This however leads to an underling question as to weather or not the expansions should be purchased if there main focus is on the campaign and not multi-player. My answer is that if money is tight, which for most of us it is, than by judging from the quality of WoL, I would say no. There is just no way to justify buying a game's campaign in three $60+ installments unless it is out of this world incredibly epic. SC2 isn't even remotely close to that qualification. I see no reason why all three campaigns weren't including considering the price tag. If that's the best Blizzard can do with a reported $100 million dollar budget and SEVEN years of development than there needs everyone associated with the project needs to be fired.
I played Vampires Bloodlines, and yes it is awesome. But I would not go as far as compare that with SC, not only because as you said its a single player only game, an RPG at that, but because the focus of VB is to portray a "persons" adventure. and the focus of a strategy game is to show us epic conflicts.
This brings me to another point. I find it that too few SCII cinematics show large scale combat or any combat for that matter, if I remember them all correctly there are three good cinematics from that POV, escape from Mar Sara, arrival on Char and KerriVSZerathul.
Also does any one else feel that it's a great shame that the last stand of the Protoss wasn't a cinematic, that would have been the best moment in the game imo.
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On August 07 2010 05:37 nemanja1503 wrote: This brings me to another point. I find it that too few SCII cinematics show large scale combat or any combat for that matter, if I remember them all correctly there are three good cinematics from that POV, escape from Mar Sara, arrival on Char and KerriVSZerathul.
Also does any one else feel that it's a great shame that the last stand of the Protoss wasn't a cinematic, that would have been the best moment in the game imo.
This touches on something that's been under my skin about Blizzard cinematics for a while now. In the old days of SC1 and even WarCraft 2, cinematics mostly featured low level fighters, you might say they were more "democratic." One of my favorites involved marines boarding a science vessel to blow it up, and then getting attacked by hydralisks. Or the one with the truckers in the desert finding a dead zergling. Or the Dominion propoganda video. That stuff was silly as hell, but fun.
Increasingly since WarCraft 3, cinematics are about the heroes, and as a result are longer and less frequent. The cutscenes in WoL were fantastic, but I wish they'd throw in more short and sweet ones. One of the charms of the old Blizzard games is they don't try to be all "epic" all the time.
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On August 06 2010 19:35 alsowikk wrote: Anyone else notice how Tychus uses a lazer and waits so Raynor can see before he shoots. It's pretty obvious Tychus wants Raynor to stop him but Tychus has to go along with the plan since the suits reactor can be overloaded if he disobeys
I initially missed this, but have been thinking more of it lately.
It's nice to think that, and it fits in with Tychus's "inner struggle" but it also makes Raynor an ass. It is plain to see that Tychus is in a bind (literally) and he should have reacted way sooner and helped his old friend, rather then help him commit assisted suicide. They can still salvage this by keeping Tychus alive (and in fact saved by Raynor's shot somehow) because we never see him die and there is one rule with blizzard that has been proven true time and time again and that is if a character is not seen explicitly dead (and sometimes even then), that character is bound to be back.
On the other hand, it just may be us thinking of things not really there in an attempt to make a poor story better. :-(
PS. I can bet anything that some of the "patches" for plot holes given by people on various forums will be used by the developers with the answer "it was our idea all along" which may be true in some, but not all cases.
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On August 07 2010 02:39 0mar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 22:35 writer22816 wrote:Completely agree with OP. And for those of you who think that its because I played BW when I was 10 years younger, you're wrong. I first played BW only 3 years ago On August 06 2010 18:09 Zerokaiser wrote:On August 06 2010 18:01 Klive5ive wrote:
I *wish* Blizzard's design plan was "make a perfect Esports game". Unfortunately you are very much mistaken and that is not at all what happened. I'm not saying they did, but it was what was at the back of their minds. In SC1, it was "This game has to have a really good single player or people won't like it." In SC2, it was "This game has to be a really good eSport or people won't like it." No. Blizzard isn't out to make a perfect esport. They're out to maximize profit. Now this is completely understandable because that's what a company would do, but please don't delude yourself. They are not trying to make the second coming of the best competitive game ever. They are trying to maximize profit and the best way to do that is to cater to the casuals. Ask yourself, if blizzard's #1 goal was to make a perfect e-sports, would we be seeing things like: MBS/automine Smart casting Hard counters No LAN or cross realm? Of course not. Everyone and their grandmother here on TL knows that adding these features is at best imprudent and at worst disastrous to the competitive scene. All those things, save for LAN and cross-realm, have nothing to do with a competitive game. Hell, Xbox360 games are competitively played and they have auto-aim ffs.
Perhaps I should elaborate myself. Yes it is possible to have a competitive RTS with MBS/automine/smart casting. But if you were out to make the #1 esport, is it prudent to include these features? No. They require a ton of balancing + micro/macro mechanics otherwise they take out a significant portion of skill.
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On August 07 2010 03:02 Ichabod wrote: Landing successfully on char seemed weird, was hoping for nukes clearing a landing zone, would have been more badass.
Hope the expacs have more depth (and they come sooner than 2-3 years away) but oh well, a near perfectly balanced RTS is the only thing that can satisfy everyone.
The landing on Char wasn't totally outlandish, IMO. Keep in mind that the Queen of Blades had her forces out hunting for artifacts, AND Raynor attacked with his entire force and half the Dominion military. I think that would be enough to establish a beach head....but not hold it, which they couldn't. If not for the artifact, they would've gotten their asses kicked.
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Needed more central plot missions/cinematics instead of tons of side missions. It should be like 25% side missions and 75% main missions and it felt more like 50/50 or almost more side missions than main missions. Near the end it was awesome. But in the middle at one point I had 5 different missions to choose from and while that's cool to have that freedom, I'm fine with a kickass linear story.
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On August 04 2010 21:37 Shaithis wrote:Also, miraS naruD, the head of Moebius Foundation; wtf are we in 3rd grade still?
boom.
also I disagree with the OP regarding one thing, the Mengsk's recording bit. The information was easily forge-able but the fact that the message was played on the UNN network makes it all so much devastating.
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On August 07 2010 06:05 nemanja1503 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 19:35 alsowikk wrote: Anyone else notice how Tychus uses a lazer and waits so Raynor can see before he shoots. It's pretty obvious Tychus wants Raynor to stop him but Tychus has to go along with the plan since the suits reactor can be overloaded if he disobeys I initially missed this, but have been thinking more of it lately. It's nice to think that, and it fits in with Tychus's "inner struggle" but it also makes Raynor an ass. It is plain to see that Tychus is in a bind (literally) and he should have reacted way sooner and helped his old friend, rather then help him commit assisted suicide. They can still salvage this by keeping Tychus alive (and in fact saved by Raynor's shot somehow) because we never see him die and there is one rule with blizzard that has been proven true time and time again and that is if a character is not seen explicitly dead (and sometimes even then), that character is bound to be back. On the other hand, it just may be us thinking of things not really there in an attempt to make a poor story better. :-( PS. I can bet anything that some of the "patches" for plot holes given by people on various forums will be used by the developers with the answer "it was our idea all along" which may be true in some, but not all cases. It's written in single player that he's dead. In BNet SP menu after you finish the game.
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"as for the plot holes or things that aren't very realistic, well its sci-fi. its fiction."
why can't fiction be criticized for being unrealistic?
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Now I just want to know how they are going to have characters in the Zerg third of the campaign? Are we going to play a Hydralisk, pulling together his ragtag gang of zerg to bring Kerrigan back?
This.
The bad guys are now...The Hybrids (which we don't really have any animosity towards, and seem perfectly killable), some Protoss who decided to be assholes (which never really made that much sense) and Mengsk who Raynor was really pissed at for betraying Kerrigan, which has all been patched up now.
Where's the doom and gloom man?
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I sorta agree with the OP on his points, the plot holes and such, but it didn't make the campaign any less enjoyable for me. It was still fun to play and kept me wanting to know what happened next. The missions I think were very varied and each mission was very different and refreshing.
I honestly think Blizzard did fine with the single player (just look at all the reviews on it).
Of course I'm itching to know what happens next and with Kerrigan and all. But it is going to be a trilogy afterall...can't reveal everything in the first game.
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I think the story was pretty good but it was the execution that ruined it. When they had to take a coherent story, then chop it up into bite-size pieces that can interlock in any pattern, they basically ruined any chance of a deep story because emotions and revelations couldn't carry over to other missions until char popped up. Because personality changes couldn't really be implemented like they could in SC1 (Where the effect of one mission would be able to be expressed through the narrative of another mission), they had trouble getting across what was going on in Raynor's mind.
Also, to people complaining about the deus ex machina, you could say the same about the xel'naga temple from BW's protoss campaign. It was an artifact that wiped out all zerg across a planet, was of xel'naga origin, needed parts to be scavenged from around the sector and then put together at the location of its use, and required time to power up, resulting in a "hold the area" mission. It worked just fine in BW, so why is it so bad now?
Also, it was a good setup for the rest of the story. As the first third of the story, it was very good at re-introducing us to the basic terran themes that were created in the first game. Terrans had a very big focus on money, with people able to be swayed by it. The corrupt government holding much power and control but having unrest in the fringes. The plot was set up for the expansions as they reintroduced characters, changed things around a bit, didn't explain everything away, but still allowed for a good ending for Raynor. It's like how in Star Wars, they managed to make a big blow against the Empire and had a great victory and it was happiness all around but they still had a lot to do in the next movies.
They can still do a lot with Mengsk, who might re-gain control of his empire (although how he might do that I have no idea), we still have no concrete idea with what they'll do with the zerg (we can only speculate, they could easily pull something that we didn't expect) and the protoss have a new executor and all sorts of changes to focus on.
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Also, to people complaining about the deus ex machina, you could say the same about the xel'naga temple from BW's protoss campaign. It was an artifact that wiped out all zerg across a planet, was of xel'naga origin, needed parts to be scavenged from around the sector and then put together at the location of its use, and required time to power up, resulting in a "hold the area" mission. It worked just fine in BW, so why is it so bad now?
You make a point there, though my biggest question is how they were able to get afoot on Chau Sara, an initial nuclear strike would of made alot more sense rather than just charging into the atmosphere. EDIT: And suddenly taking ground with a half-assed Dominion fleet.
The plot was set up for the expansions as they reintroduced characters, changed things around a bit, didn't explain everything away, but still allowed for a good ending for Raynor. It's like how in Star Wars, they managed to make a big blow against the Empire and had a great victory and it was happiness all around but they still had a lot to do in the next movies.
Yea that sure looks Star Wars-esque like. Might we as well call it Starcraft II: Heart of the Swarm - The Terran Dominion Strikes Back where Darth Mengsk really is a puppet under The Dark Voice (Darth Sideous anyone?). And then the second expansion will be Legacy of the Void - The Return of the Xel'Naga?? Sure bears alot of resemblance to Star Wars. And lets not forget Valerian Mengsk who is Luke Skywalker while Jim Raynor is Han Solo with Matt Horner being his lovely assistant Chewbacca
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Yea that sure looks Star Wars-esque like. Might we as well call it Starcraft II: Heart of the Swarm - The Terran Dominion Strikes Back where Darth Mengsk really is a puppet under The Dark Voice (Darth Sideous anyone?). And then the second expansion will be Legacy of the Void - The Return of the Xel'Naga?? Sure bears alot of resemblance to Star Wars. And lets not forget Valerian Mengsk who is Luke Skywalker while Jim Raynor is Han Solo with Matt Horner being his lovely assistant Chewbacca
If Mat was suddenly turned into Chewbacca in SCII:HotS all my grudges would be gone.
Rwaaaaaaa. :-D
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too many plot holes
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