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yeah yeah sad kids. not like they know what they chose? if they want 2 have a family( with 16-20 :D) or go 2 college or whatsoever they can do it. but if they under a contract yes they have to train its with every other professional sport. u have 2 train otherwise ur out end of the story. and 8-10 hours is not even much... its a "normal" work day like some office job or whatsoever but instead u play starcraft also after 5789349858934589435 interviews u will become a robot in this interviews because 99% u have 2 answer the same stuff over and over again.
but yeah. GSL is awesome . bring them back to the good old eat ramen only be scared to not get enough money 2 make a living WOHO.
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Uh, rasers, who said anything about how much they have to train? Hmmmm one person, you. My point, and the post I quoted is simply about how controlling Kespa is, and that it really is not necessary. People train just as hard for the GSL, so I really fail to see your point.
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On October 13 2010 13:34 Varbind wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 02:29 leakingpear wrote: You say that like KeSPA haven't been abusing the eSports movement for years and years now in order to further the companies that constitute it in terms of advertising and even revenue through the PL broadcasting rights issue. The players have been systematically trained to downplay their own efforts and achievements so they don't at any point abuse their celebrity in a way that could upset the systems that KeSPA have created. This is probably the first time in 6 or 7 years that many of these progamers have thought about anything but progressing within the current rigid system, without ever questioning whether the system itself is a good idea in the first place.
The Korean eSports scene thrived because of the combination of celebrity and production values, of which sponsors were needed, but ever since the Boxer boom the balance of power has slowly and steadily swung into a system where players are meant to just be grateful to play for such a venerable and great team and give up everything in order to continue. I suspect the majority of progamers still love brood war, but that doesn't mean they should love the perverted system that just happens to be the only choice, especially when they can have better prospects in a game that's very similar and has the added option of being somewhat undiscovered in terms of strategy.
Also progamers are people, people with lives and not zealots for the great god brood war intent on dying for their cause, as much as you won't want to admit it, brood war is just a game and these kids probably have other ambitions down the road, like going to college, or having a family, or selling fruit.
Wow, this was a fantastic post, thank you! So often people do not consider what it must be like to be one of these drones/progammers underneath Kespa. It has always struck me how robotic they are especially in interviews. They simply have no character/uniqueness. The difference is so notable in the GSL, they have the ability to act normally and are far more animated and actually act like the incredibly young people they actually are. Honestly under Kespa the progammers always reminded me of the athletes from Russia at the olympics.....afraid to say the wrong thing.
Yeah, damn Kespa and their robots:
On September 30 2010 03:43 Bwenjarin Raffrack wrote:Thanks for the thread, OP. The problem I have with the new SC2 crowd that make light of Brood War is that they have no idea what it has really accomplished, or what ESPORTS really is. I think what we need to do is clarify once and for all what BW fans mean by ESPORTS. ESPORTS isn't about having tournaments or whose (prize pool) is bigger. ESPORTS is playing video games competitively on television. ESPORTS is being government-sanctioned and culturally-approved. ESPORTS is filling stadiums with thousands of people. + Show Spoiler +ESPORTS is a three-year-old girl being your biggest fan. + Show Spoiler +ESPORTS is growing up to be just like your hero. + Show Spoiler +ESPORTS is a shitty TV drama being made about your lifestyle. + Show Spoiler +ESPORTS is fangirls praying for you in the audience. + Show Spoiler +ESPORTS is celebrating your victory after the big game. + Show Spoiler + ESPORTS is having major pimp cred when you win. + Show Spoiler +ESPORTS is being sexy for your fans. + Show Spoiler +ESPORTS is being a rock star. + Show Spoiler +ESPORTS is idolizing and arguing about your favorite players even when you don't understand a word they say. + Show Spoiler +Is SC2 a successful ESPORT already? Is it going to supplant BW as the ESPORT? Do you think we'll have ESPORTS in the West? Do you think ESPORTS in Korea is irrelevant? Be sure you know what you're talking about before you answer. Edit: Added more.
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Aru, I also fail to see your point. Esports is successful therefore all the actions of Kespa are justified? I am just guessing, but I hope your thinking isnt that simple......
Oh, and by the way if this is some kind of attack on how long I have been a fan of sc, I started as a fan of agent911, and grrr, so if that was your goal I think you fail.
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On October 13 2010 13:52 Varbind wrote: Aru, I also fail to see your point. Esports is successfull therefore all the actions of Kespa are justified? I am just guessing, but I hope your thinking isnt that simple...... When i get to watch pro BW then Kespa is justified. Throw everything out the window because they are providing me with my favorite entertainment.
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So you blame everything on Blizzard for the perceived troubles of pro BW? Really, because no one here has any idea as to the details of the negotiations between the interested parties. People like to pretend that they do, but it is mostly bs.
I do not blame either party as I simply do not have enough information. You should consider why you seem to give Kespa a free pass as to the troubles bw is having right now. Myself, I highly doubt they are blame free.
EDIT:
I shoudl probably clarify, what I meant is Kespa's actions should be questioned along with Blizzard, no one deserves a free pass in this situation
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On October 13 2010 13:52 Varbind wrote: Aru, I also fail to see your point. Esports is successful therefore all the actions of Kespa are justified? I am just guessing, but I hope your thinking isnt that simple......
Oh, and by the way if this is some kind of attack on how long I have been a fan of sc, I started as a fan of agent911, and grrr, so if that was your goal I think you fail.
I was lazy and copied the entire post that someone else posted for you, but I thought it was fairly obvious I was attacking your statement claiming that Kespa somehow forces their players to be drones. If you had actually took the time to look at some of the pictures, you would certainly see these Kespa "drones" not being very drone-like.
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Interrupting discussion to inform this:
'SHINHAN BANK Pro League will be finally opened on this Sat. (Oct. 16). Detailed things including match-ups will be unveiled on tomorrow. ^^' -KeSPA's Twitter
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this is such a sad day and time for BW!
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On October 13 2010 14:00 supernovamaniac wrote: Interrupting discussion to inform this:
'SHINHAN BANK Pro League will be finally opened on this Sat. (Oct. 16). Detailed things including match-ups will be unveiled on tomorrow. ^^' -KeSPA's Twitter YES! Reading this thread is depressing for a BW fan, I had almost given up on any decent resolution. Good news at last.
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Pictures can capture a moment of happiness I am sure, but I am talking about how bad the interviews of pro bw players are. It is almost a joke about how little they say, have you ever watched any of the vids artosis puts out? He kids them all the time, I hope you are not going to give me the standard answer that I always get...... yet they always do. Exceptions are rare.
Super, that is great news, I pray it happens.
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On October 13 2010 13:34 Varbind wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 02:29 leakingpear wrote: You say that like KeSPA haven't been abusing the eSports movement for years and years now in order to further the companies that constitute it in terms of advertising and even revenue through the PL broadcasting rights issue. The players have been systematically trained to downplay their own efforts and achievements so they don't at any point abuse their celebrity in a way that could upset the systems that KeSPA have created. This is probably the first time in 6 or 7 years that many of these progamers have thought about anything but progressing within the current rigid system, without ever questioning whether the system itself is a good idea in the first place.
The Korean eSports scene thrived because of the combination of celebrity and production values, of which sponsors were needed, but ever since the Boxer boom the balance of power has slowly and steadily swung into a system where players are meant to just be grateful to play for such a venerable and great team and give up everything in order to continue. I suspect the majority of progamers still love brood war, but that doesn't mean they should love the perverted system that just happens to be the only choice, especially when they can have better prospects in a game that's very similar and has the added option of being somewhat undiscovered in terms of strategy.
Also progamers are people, people with lives and not zealots for the great god brood war intent on dying for their cause, as much as you won't want to admit it, brood war is just a game and these kids probably have other ambitions down the road, like going to college, or having a family, or selling fruit.
Wow, this was a fantastic post, thank you! So often people do not consider what it must be like to be one of these drones/progammers underneath Kespa. It has always struck me how robotic they are especially in interviews. They simply have no character/uniqueness. The difference is so notable in the GSL, they have the ability to act normally and are far more animated and actually act like the incredibly young people they actually are. Honestly under Kespa the progammers always reminded me of the athletes from Russia at the olympics.....afraid to say the wrong thing. Please stop with this misinformation. Read my previous post specificially concerning that. Also to add to my previous post, that is the kind of life they chose. They made a conscious decision on that. They are well aware that being a progamer requires tons of hours of practice to be successful. Also, consider that their culture is different from yours, so while you might see it as 'slavery' as very few people in the west can handle a lifestyle like that(hence, very few foreign progamers), it is something normal to them.
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Glad to see that PL might start and be aired on MBC.
The saddest thing is that players like Boxer, Nada, or July are basically committing delayed suicide. The insane level of the BW scene left them in the dust so they decided to switch to SC2 and have a chance to shine again. But because they are iconic players with a huge fanbase, their switch will hasten the death of BW and cause real top players like Flash/JD/etc to transition earlier. And once that happens they'll most probably get trounced again. But if they keep playing BW they have next to no chance to achieve anything either so they don't really have a choice. It's really, really sad.
That's why I really hope BW PL can last some more time. This way we can still enjoy raw skill in the form of the best players playing the best game (as of yet - SC2 might evolve into a great game too), and we also have the chance to see the old stars rise and shine again in SC2. Best of the two worlds imo.
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Nem, please point out where I talked about slavery, practise time or anything along that line. What misinformation are you referring to? Do you actually read my posts?
I will repeat it again, what I don't like is how controlled the players are. They have to give the answers to interviews that are expected of them. It makes them all seem the same, and it is hard for them to really differentiate themselves.
I really like in the GSL that players feel more free to speak their minds, and it is far more interesting to me.
Please, please refute my point, and not some preconception that you already have in your head.
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I explained the situation to my dad today... Guess what he said?
"Money cannot buy everything".
So true... BW T.T...
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5930 Posts
The Starcraft 2 proscene will be as sterile as the current Brood War proscene the minute big money companies start sponsoring players. Enjoy it while it lasts.
On October 13 2010 14:10 Matoo- wrote: Glad to see that PL might start and be aired on MBC.
The saddest thing is that players like Boxer, Nada, or July are basically committing delayed suicide. The insane level of the BW scene left them in the dust so they decided to switch to SC2 and have a chance to shine again. But because they are iconic players with a huge fanbase, their switch will hasten the death of BW and cause real top players like Flash/JD/etc to transition earlier. And once that happens they'll most probably get trounced again. It's really, really sad.
That's why I really hope BW PL can last some more time. This way we can still enjoy raw skill in the form of the best players playing the best game (as of yet - SC2 might evolve into a great game too), and we also have the chance to see the old stars rise and shine again in SC2. Best of the two worlds imo.
Yeah I have the same feeling about this news. Having Brood War played for one more season can end the scene on a high note and give some of the old legends like Nada, Boxer, and ChRh the one last chance to really shine in the large pile of SC2 "progamers"...
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On October 13 2010 14:11 Varbind wrote: Nem, please point out where I talked about slavery, practise time or anything along that line. What misinformation are you referring to? Do you actually read my posts?
I will repeat it again, what I don't like is how controlled the players are. They have to give the answers to interviews that are expected of them. It makes them all seem the same, and it is hard for them to really differentiate themselves.
I really like in the GSL that players feel more free to speak their minds, and it is far more interesting to me.
Please, please refute my point, and not some preconception that you already have in your head.
Maybe sponsors don't want their players to say things that will embarass them? It's standard business practice to limit the PR people in things they say. Players in the GSL aren't bound to a specific contract, and thus only represent themselves. Remember the shitstorm started by Blizzard from some wrong words in an interview. No company wants to leave a bad impression on themselves.
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Well, Varbind, admittedly I did not watch all of the GSL, but all the postgame interviews I saw were in general no different from what I saw in BW. I remember one guy who didn't even look at Artosis once when they were "talking" through the translator. And no, I did not watch any of Artosis' interview vids, but honestly, I don't expect them to be much different from the GSL ones due to the language barriers.
I attempted to find interviews from the GSL to get some sort of feel about it, but again, nothing struck me as if they're freely speaking their minds nor their answers being grossly different from the "typical" BW answers. For reference, this was one I read: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=153164
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Wom,
You have a point, but I disagree. When you look at the NHL, NFL, Premier League, etc, etc there are controversial statements made on a daily basis. So yes, I feel that Kespa is exceptionally strict, and I am very happy to see this change for the good.
I love Broodward, I just hope that it can continue under a compromise. It will take both Blizzard and Kespa to make that happen. However all I see these days is people bitching about Blizzard. It takes two my friend.
Also, Nada and Boxer were in all but name retired already. They get another kick at the can, how can that be anything but a good thing? You act as if a second chance, however short, is worse then no chance at all? I cannot understand how that makes sense.
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On October 13 2010 14:11 Varbind wrote: Nem, please point out where I talked about slavery, practise time or anything along that line. What misinformation are you referring to? Do you actually read my posts?
I will repeat it again, what I don't like is how controlled the players are. They have to give the answers to interviews that are expected of them. It makes them all seem the same, and it is hard for them to really differentiate themselves.
I really like in the GSL that players feel more free to speak their minds, and it is far more interesting to me.
Please, please refute my point, and not some preconception that you already have in your head. well u call them drones. drones are slaves. so yes.
and also u obvious dont know what it means if u are in a prof. team (i dont know either) but i know that u dont say anything u want because u represent the team and not you. u talk about the game mb 1 thing else and its done its always like that not only in pro SC in korea made by the evil kespa.
they get the same question over and over again. so what do u expect them 2 say?
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