So are there any VOD´s or Replay from the Winner Bracktes Final and the Overall Final, because i would love to see this games!
Thank you for any Information and congratulations to TLO and Team Liquid!
Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments |
bay_2002
Germany105 Posts
So are there any VOD´s or Replay from the Winner Bracktes Final and the Overall Final, because i would love to see this games! Thank you for any Information and congratulations to TLO and Team Liquid! | ||
Fregate
Italy50 Posts
On January 09 2011 18:39 razkuth wrote: I am not really into many tournaments. And i don't know nothing about which rules there are in a starcraft II tournament. but i do wanna put some emphasis on the perspective of other sports. think of a soccer worldchampionship. which is by far one of the biggest sport tournaments in the world. and by biggest i mean there is just the whole fuckin world watchin'! BUT do you really think, that the players stop playin, if there is a broadcasting error? serious? they just give a shit. they do not even want to know ingame if there is something wrong!!! we wanna watch a competitive sport. there has to be the best ingame conditions possible. kind regards -caspa This is not true AT ALL! In Soccer, television and sponsor are the Absolute Power. They play World Championship Final at a certain time (that can be odd for the time zone in which the players are) just to let more people all over the world watch. In national championships you always see evening games even in winter (with reaaaally low temperatures, not funny for the players) just because more people will watch them. In Italy they are starting to play matches almost at every hour to let people watch them all. In England thay play even the 26th of December (NBA plays 25th Dec. as well). The essence of competitive sport is audience, and the money sponsor will pay if audience is big and satisfied. Competitive sponsor wouldn't even exist otherwise. I have to change your last sentence: We wanna watch a competitive sport. there has to be the best Audience conditions possible. | ||
SushilS
2115 Posts
And I don't mind wat Sjow did. He was just playing for keeps and that makes him a pro imo. Pro-Players always should keep results as the first priority and public opinion second. I don't like Sjow's one-dimensional Terran usually, but this has made me respect him as a pro, certainly. | ||
Blondinbengt
Sweden578 Posts
On January 09 2011 18:39 razkuth wrote: Show nested quote + On January 09 2011 15:51 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I'll try to add my perspective as well. I think I have more experience as a player and organizer than most which allows for a little more objectivity. I do want to note that I have not seen the manner in which Sjow made his requests so I will only talk about the essence of the situation and not the way it was delivered. If Sjow sounded like an asshole to you then he sounded like an asshole, but that doesn't mean you need to judge the actual action. It is possible to say he had a good reason to do so and that you find him an asshole at the same time. These things are not mutually exclusive and you should never confuse the two. A player has to accept certain conditions when he is playing tournaments because it can't all be perfect. A good example would be when a player signs up for a tournament that is not played on his server he accepts to play in delay. This means he has no right to complain about delay because he agreed to it by playing. However the lag of a caster does not fall into this group. If a terrible playing condition can be solved by the caster leaving then this is the right thing to do. This should have been done by the caster, and the tournament admins. Not doing so was a huge blunder, much moreso than what Sjow did. If Sjow used his star-power to make a caster leave (I will not let you in my games again) then this is definitely wrong, but considering the past 12 hours of the tournament being such a mess a high level of frustration is understandable, and maybe even justified. The computers at the tournament were lagging, the connection was lagging, outside casters had to be brought in because the organization couldn't take care of it themselves. Players put up with all of this so far without public complaints. When in the final of a big money tournament on top of all these things the caster also starts to lag and doesn't leave then that is just too much for a player to handle after he has been dealing with the frustration of organizational incompetence all day long. I would not be happy if anyone in Liquid handled this the way Sjow did at all and I would definitely yell at them for behaving like this. I believe that when a player signs up for a tournament he puts his faith into the tournament organizers hands and that he should follow the rules he signed up for. Most tournaments have a rule about them deciding whether casters can be in the game, when you sign up for a tournament like this you shouldn't complain about it when it is causing issues. I do want to add that this is a good rule; never should a good tournament organizer put this sort of power in the hands of players. If you dislike such a rule you should not have played the tournament then. Sign up for a tournament, play by their rules. If you didn't like the tournament don't sign up next time. Clearly the organization made huge mistakes and if that is a reason for players not to come back then that is understandable. I would even go as far as to say very few teams are going to spend their travel budget on this tournament next time. I know Liquid can't afford to send players to tournaments that can't get a proper stream running. Bottom line is the tournament organizers as well as the caster fucked up by staying in the game, and people saying in this topic that this is a spectator sport need to stfu. Tournaments need to make the decision that casters are not allowed in the game if they lag. Playing conditions should be high priority. These are the individual lifes of young players you are influencing by letting them play in horrible conditions and this is something that should be taken with more responsibility. The argument that viewers are the reason that there is prize money in this tournament is obviously completely ridiculous; as the tournament organizers couldn't even get a proper stream running themselves. Conclusion: Sjow did something wrong but nothing that deserves to be flamed. I do want to add once more that spectator sport should not warrant lagging casters whatsoever. Anyone who believes it does is simply wrong. Tournaments can be cast from replays it's not a huge disaster to just let the players play and switch from live to replay cast. It is not a players position to make this call however. I am not really into many tournaments. And i don't know nothing about which rules there are in a starcraft II tournament. but i do wanna put some emphasis on the perspective of other sports. think of a soccer worldchampionship. which is by far one of the biggest sport tournaments in the world. and by biggest i mean there is just the whole fuckin world watchin'! BUT do you really think, that the players stop playin, if there is a broadcasting error? serious? they just give a shit. they do not even want to know ingame if there is something wrong!!! we wanna watch a competitive sport. there has to be the best ingame conditions possible. kind regards -caspa That analogy doesn't make sense at all. Of course football players don't care about broadcasting errors in a game, they're not effected by it at all. The casters/caster at this tournament were lagging, which severely effects the players in the tournament. If the camera teams covering the football matches would run onto the field and bump into the players and get in their way, you can bet your ass they would complain. | ||
fabulously
Norway724 Posts
Despite all the drama, once again thanks to the guy casting on drools account the whole day. Highly appreciated. | ||
Liquid`Nazgul
22426 Posts
On January 09 2011 18:59 Fregate wrote: This is not true AT ALL! In Soccer, television and sponsor are the Absolute Power. They play World Championship Final at a certain time (that can be odd for the time zone in which the players are) just to let more people all over the world watch. In national championships you always see evening games even in winter (with reaaaally low temperatures, not funny for the players) just because more people will watch them. In Italy they are starting to play matches almost at every hour to let people watch them all. In England thay play even the 26th of December (NBA plays 25th Dec. as well). The essence of competitive sport is audience, and the money sponsor will pay if audience is big and satisfied. Competitive sponsor wouldn't even exist otherwise. I have to change your last sentence: We wanna watch a competitive sport. there has to be the best Audience conditions possible. Not that I think the guy you responded to is right, but in football as well as tennis matches are often canceled due to too much rain or too much snow. Players definitely need proper conditions to play in any sport. None of these sports let their players play in unacceptable conditions due to broadcasting schedules. | ||
Odoakar
Croatia1834 Posts
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Fregate
Italy50 Posts
On January 09 2011 19:22 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Show nested quote + On January 09 2011 18:59 Fregate wrote: This is not true AT ALL! In Soccer, television and sponsor are the Absolute Power. They play World Championship Final at a certain time (that can be odd for the time zone in which the players are) just to let more people all over the world watch. In national championships you always see evening games even in winter (with reaaaally low temperatures, not funny for the players) just because more people will watch them. In Italy they are starting to play matches almost at every hour to let people watch them all. In England thay play even the 26th of December (NBA plays 25th Dec. as well). The essence of competitive sport is audience, and the money sponsor will pay if audience is big and satisfied. Competitive sponsor wouldn't even exist otherwise. I have to change your last sentence: We wanna watch a competitive sport. there has to be the best Audience conditions possible. Not that I think the guy you responded to is right, but in football as well as tennis matches are often canceled due to too much rain or too much snow. Players definitely need proper conditions to play in any sport. None of these sports let their players play in unacceptable conditions due to broadcasting schedules. This is true, of course there's a limit. Even the audience doesn't want to watch a match where players can't do their best due to weather conditions. In Sc2 is the same, i understand that Sjow didn't want to play with such a lag,, but even I didn't want to watch a match where key micro actions where destroyed by lag. My point was: if we want e-sport to become important, we have to care about audience. A final of a tournament with no audience is not possible in any competitive sport. | ||
Eurekastreet
1308 Posts
On January 09 2011 15:51 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Clearly the organization made huge mistakes and if that is a reason for players not to come back then that is understandable. I would even go as far as to say very few teams are going to spend their travel budget on this tournament next time. I know Liquid can't afford to send players to tournaments that can't get a proper stream running. Bottom line is the tournament organizers as well as the caster fucked up by staying in the game, and people saying in this topic that this is a spectator sport need to stfu. Tournaments need to make the decision that casters are not allowed in the game if they lag. Playing conditions should be high priority. These are the individual lifes of young players you are influencing by letting them play in horrible conditions and this is something that should be taken with more responsibility. The argument that viewers are the reason that there is prize money in this tournament is obviously completely ridiculous; as the tournament organizers couldn't even get a proper stream running themselves. Conclusion: Sjow did something wrong but nothing that deserves to be flamed. I do want to add once more that spectator sport should not warrant lagging casters whatsoever. Anyone who believes it does is simply wrong. Tournaments can be cast from replays it's not a huge disaster to just let the players play and switch from live to replay cast. It is not a players position to make this call however. Agreed with most of the post, it's self-contradictory at times - but who isn't- or I just misunderstood it all (one paragraph you say you " have not seen the manner in which Sjow etc", the next " if anyone in Liquid handled this the way Sjow did at all and I would definitely yell at them for behaving like this" and you conclude with " Sjow did something wrong but nothing that deserves to be flamed." ) but if one tries to rationalize the whole mess objectively, it's probably the only way to go as there's so many things that went wrong one doesn't know who to start blaming. I, for one, blame the invisible admin (and the cloaked organizers), the player "threatening" the caster (and de-friending him from the game so no communication was possible at all after game 2 - we just stared at a fixed screen hoping for game 3....) and I wanna put a tiny tiny blame on the caster for not rebooting his whole setup just for the sake of it and trying to join again (though Sjow probably might not have accepted) but something tells me I shouldn't blame the caster at all, it's like shouting at a guy who finishes a marathon because he don't run fast enough. Aaaah self contradiction. What I don't agree with (not that you have to care for it, just my 2 cents) is the " and people saying in this topic that this is a spectator sport need to stfu". To me it ain't only a spectator sport (yes, players need to be taken care of and play in the best conditions etc), but passed the fact that being a spectator and chatting with other spectators (casters and sometimes players) is a huge part of the fun watching those tournaments for my little person, the fact that if there's a whole 5000+ people waiting a whole saturday evening to watch a couple of games and just get given the finger by one diva player for some lag issues (I might be wrong but I only saw the caster lag once or twice before sjow jumped on him, all the previous problems were caused by other spectators) needs a little bit more consideration than a well-placed "stfu" - especially from the admin of a community website. If you ain't gonna "blame" anyone, then no one's responsible for the situation, then it'll happen again but it's ok, who cares, specs just need to "stfu" and eat what they're fed. Maybe that's not what you meant, and it was more of an analysis of the position of the spectator in the e-sport business, maybe those tourneys don't even need live specs at all and so on (I guess they'll need specs at some point if they want some money), but to me that's another discussion, I, as a spec, value my time as much as the next guy, if I get served warm beer, I quickly change bar. PS : as for the too much rain/too much snow thing : i think (at least that's what seems logical) it's the referee who decides how much is too much, not the players, and he does it both for the players AND the audience, not because the players look tired or might get their fancy little shorts wet but because he wants everyone to get a decent show. | ||
razkuth
Germany11 Posts
On January 09 2011 18:59 Fregate wrote: Show nested quote + On January 09 2011 18:39 razkuth wrote: I am not really into many tournaments. And i don't know nothing about which rules there are in a starcraft II tournament. but i do wanna put some emphasis on the perspective of other sports. think of a soccer worldchampionship. which is by far one of the biggest sport tournaments in the world. and by biggest i mean there is just the whole fuckin world watchin'! BUT do you really think, that the players stop playin, if there is a broadcasting error? serious? they just give a shit. they do not even want to know ingame if there is something wrong!!! we wanna watch a competitive sport. there has to be the best ingame conditions possible. kind regards -caspa This is not true AT ALL! In Soccer, television and sponsor are the Absolute Power. They play World Championship Final at a certain time (that can be odd for the time zone in which the players are) just to let more people all over the world watch. In national championships you always see evening games even in winter (with reaaaally low temperatures, not funny for the players) just because more people will watch them. In Italy they are starting to play matches almost at every hour to let people watch them all. In England thay play even the 26th of December (NBA plays 25th Dec. as well). The essence of competitive sport is audience, and the money sponsor will pay if audience is big and satisfied. Competitive sponsor wouldn't even exist otherwise. I have to change your last sentence: We wanna watch a competitive sport. there has to be the best Audience conditions possible. Maybe my english is way to bad. But that wasn't my point at all. Of course i think, that times when the games are played are really really important. And that the more people watch, the better it is for sc2. But the thing is. If the game has been started, the game is the most important thing. No one but the players should be able to decide the game. Don't get me wrong. I agree with you. They play in winter although it is cold. That is totally fine! Because we want to see them play every day But when a game kicks off, the players should be able to play a game without incidents! Audience conditions has to be set perfect before a game starts. And if the casters interfere a game they should just leave immeadiatly and improve settings for the next set of the bo3 bo5 whatever. | ||
Wuffey
252 Posts
On January 09 2011 19:22 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Not that I think the guy you responded to is right, but in football as well as tennis matches are often canceled due to too much rain or too much snow. Players definitely need proper conditions to play in any sport. None of these sports let their players play in unacceptable conditions due to broadcasting schedules. I think you are wrong there. Football matches get canceled when it's completly impossible to play (=Batllenet offline). But they will not be canceled when it's raining or snowing, making it harder for the players to play but not impossible (=Lag). | ||
Hotzenplotz
Germany22 Posts
On January 09 2011 19:49 Wuffey wrote: Show nested quote + On January 09 2011 19:22 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Not that I think the guy you responded to is right, but in football as well as tennis matches are often canceled due to too much rain or too much snow. Players definitely need proper conditions to play in any sport. None of these sports let their players play in unacceptable conditions due to broadcasting schedules. I think you are wrong there. Football matches get canceled when it's completly impossible to play (=Batllenet offline). But they will not be canceled when it's raining or snowing, making it harder for the players to play but not impossible (=Lag). True. And its always the Ref who makes the calls. In Germany there are mostly 2 reasons for that. First is, that the Soccer Players could get injured if the game progresses. This might not really aply for Starcraft and Lag although.... A player might punch somethin because he rages. But this should not really happen in the Pro scene. (On second thought it does! I remember Day9 smashing his Keyboard once) Second reason is that the Game cant be played the way it is supposed to be (cant really translate "ordnungsgemäßer Spielbetrieb"). This really fits for Lag. | ||
.syL
Germany85 Posts
On January 09 2011 19:22 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Not that I think the guy you responded to is right, but in football as well as tennis matches are often canceled due to too much rain or too much snow. Players definitely need proper conditions to play in any sport. None of these sports let their players play in unacceptable conditions due to broadcasting schedules. No one reasonable is arguing that either players or spectators should take absolute precedent over the other. Of course it's a matter of degree, but the type of competition heavily influences on which group a greater emphasis should be placed. You could either say, playing conditions are paramount unless disturbances are so small they should be ignored, OR you could say that spectators should take precedent unless the disturbances are so big that they cannot be ignored. It's approaching the same line, from different sides. In a casual competition, you'd go with the first statement, in a competitive setting (competitive in this sense meaning spectator sport) you should follow the second. That's the way it's handled in real sports, it should be the way esports function as well. Of course football games get canceled because of condition, but in professional games, they play long after a casual players would have called it a day, precisely because of that. That does not necessarily mean that players should have to play with huge lag, although a bit should be tolerated, as long as playing is possible. It does, however, make it absolutely necessary that every possible avenue gets explored that would make it possible for the game to be played with spectators. More precisely, if a caster lagged one game, he should be given the chance to fix his problems, even if that leads to having to remake a game in case he couldn't. If he is unable to cast, a replacement should be sought, within a reasonable timeframe, at least if it's the finals. If both is impossible, the caster should be provided with the replays immediately after the game has ended, to allow the spectators to still participate. Generally, it's the job of the admin to handle a situation like that, but if one is not at hand, the players themselves need to take care of that. I think that's the main reason people are so angry with sjow, it's not that he wanted to play without lag, but that he didn't take the spectators into consideration at all. He should, however, since they are the ones that enable him to play for money in the first place. | ||
Longshank
1648 Posts
In this case admins should have stepped up and made a decission, but just the fact that players somehow feel entitled to decide(not only on this occasion, been same way with HuK and Morrow in the past) shows that they don't understand the business they're in. And why they're allowed to be in it. | ||
SayTT
Sweden2158 Posts
On January 09 2011 18:59 Fregate wrote: Show nested quote + On January 09 2011 18:39 razkuth wrote: I am not really into many tournaments. And i don't know nothing about which rules there are in a starcraft II tournament. but i do wanna put some emphasis on the perspective of other sports. think of a soccer worldchampionship. which is by far one of the biggest sport tournaments in the world. and by biggest i mean there is just the whole fuckin world watchin'! BUT do you really think, that the players stop playin, if there is a broadcasting error? serious? they just give a shit. they do not even want to know ingame if there is something wrong!!! we wanna watch a competitive sport. there has to be the best ingame conditions possible. kind regards -caspa This is not true AT ALL! In Soccer, television and sponsor are the Absolute Power. They play World Championship Final at a certain time (that can be odd for the time zone in which the players are) just to let more people all over the world watch. In national championships you always see evening games even in winter (with reaaaally low temperatures, not funny for the players) just because more people will watch them. In Italy they are starting to play matches almost at every hour to let people watch them all. In England thay play even the 26th of December (NBA plays 25th Dec. as well). The essence of competitive sport is audience, and the money sponsor will pay if audience is big and satisfied. Competitive sponsor wouldn't even exist otherwise. I have to change your last sentence: We wanna watch a competitive sport. there has to be the best Audience conditions possible. That is all your own conclusions and not based on anything "real", like for instance you claim about playing fotball in england on the 26th. That has nothing to do with the sponsors or television, it has been a standing tradition to play football and go watch football on boxing day in england for over 100 years now. | ||
eGo.SiGns
Germany48 Posts
On January 09 2011 19:34 Eurekastreet wrote: + Show Spoiler + On January 09 2011 15:51 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Clearly the organization made huge mistakes and if that is a reason for players not to come back then that is understandable. I would even go as far as to say very few teams are going to spend their travel budget on this tournament next time. I know Liquid can't afford to send players to tournaments that can't get a proper stream running. Bottom line is the tournament organizers as well as the caster fucked up by staying in the game, and people saying in this topic that this is a spectator sport need to stfu. Tournaments need to make the decision that casters are not allowed in the game if they lag. Playing conditions should be high priority. These are the individual lifes of young players you are influencing by letting them play in horrible conditions and this is something that should be taken with more responsibility. The argument that viewers are the reason that there is prize money in this tournament is obviously completely ridiculous; as the tournament organizers couldn't even get a proper stream running themselves. Conclusion: Sjow did something wrong but nothing that deserves to be flamed. I do want to add once more that spectator sport should not warrant lagging casters whatsoever. Anyone who believes it does is simply wrong. Tournaments can be cast from replays it's not a huge disaster to just let the players play and switch from live to replay cast. It is not a players position to make this call however. + Show Spoiler + Agreed with most of the post, it's self-contradictory at times - but who isn't- or I just misunderstood it all (one paragraph you say you " have not seen the manner in which Sjow etc", the next " if anyone in Liquid handled this the way Sjow did at all and I would definitely yell at them for behaving like this" and you conclude with " Sjow did something wrong but nothing that deserves to be flamed." ) but if one tries to rationalize the whole mess objectively, it's probably the only way to go as there's so many things that went wrong one doesn't know who to start blaming. I, for one, blame the invisible admin (and the cloaked organizers), the player "threatening" the caster (and de-friending him from the game so no communication was possible at all after game 2 - we just stared at a fixed screen hoping for game 3....) and I wanna put a tiny tiny blame on the caster for not rebooting his whole setup just for the sake of it and trying to join again (though Sjow probably might not have accepted) but something tells me I shouldn't blame the caster at all, it's like shouting at a guy who finishes a marathon because he don't run fast enough. Aaaah self contradiction. What I don't agree with (not that you have to care for it, just my 2 cents) is the " and people saying in this topic that this is a spectator sport need to stfu". To me it ain't only a spectator sport (yes, players need to be taken care of and play in the best conditions etc), but passed the fact that being a spectator and chatting with other spectators (casters and sometimes players) is a huge part of the fun watching those tournaments for my little person, the fact that if there's a whole 5000+ people waiting a whole saturday evening to watch a couple of games and just get given the finger by one diva player for some lag issues (I might be wrong but I only saw the caster lag once or twice before sjow jumped on him, all the previous problems were caused by other spectators) needs a little bit more consideration than a well-placed "stfu" - especially from the admin of a community website. If you ain't gonna "blame" anyone, then no one's responsible for the situation, then it'll happen again but it's ok, who cares, specs just need to "stfu" and eat what they're fed. Maybe that's not what you meant, and it was more of an analysis of the position of the spectator in the e-sport business, maybe those tourneys don't even need live specs at all and so on (I guess they'll need specs at some point if they want some money), but to me that's another discussion, I, as a spec, value my time as much as the next guy, if I get served warm beer, I quickly change bar. PS : as for the too much rain/too much snow thing : i think (at least that's what seems logical) it's the referee who decides how much is too much, not the players, and he does it both for the players AND the audience, not because the players look tired or might get their fancy little shorts wet but because he wants everyone to get a decent show. IMO one of the best posts in this thread. For a viewer its really disappointing to always read "plese put yourself in the players perspective" and then see, that the (some) players are not willing to put themselfes in the viewers perspective. Do you think its fun to watch a tourney for 10-12 hours and then not be able to watch the final? WTH thats a damn waste of time, thanks for that... I guess we are at a point where all agree, that what Sjow did was understanable but nontheless was a mistake no pro should ever make. Therefore the consequence for the viewers will probably be: Sjow will become unliked ( for the most viewers at least) The consequence for the players will hopefully be: To not ignore the viewers like that again. The consequence for the organizers will be: Get your damn own stream running and dont restream a random caster. Get a better location, heck just get a better orga alltogether. Another note: All the "supporter of sjow" always seem to mention, that casters were causing lag for the whole tourney. Even though that may be true, the caster in question (sheektief on drools account) did only lage once (max. twice) in that final. Ofc thats enough reason to ask him to leave that game but not ban him from the whole final. He was asked to leave the game once (at least thats what he, as well as 5000+ viewers saw) and left immediatly. Therefore i also dont really unterstand why TLO would post something like "WTF why is drool not leaving". Did he lag several times and the players just didnt write anything, or did the players mistake the casters causing the lag. Or is there a problem with the "lagger" seeing the ingame chat? So he perhaps cant even realize that he is in fact lagging? I also think we should mention that blizzard was wise enough to see these problems. Its obviously not meant that the players make this kind of decisions, otherwise there would be no point in creating a "referee" aside from all the "hosts" , "Teams", and "Spectators" , right? Greetz | ||
hoovehand
United Kingdom542 Posts
OMG SOMEONE WITH 300 APM SAID SJOW WAS BAD BECAUSE HE DOESNT SPAM CLICK TO GET 200+ APM! btw if a low APM player can beat a high APM player, that's concrete evidence that the high APM player isn't doing the correct actions and therefore invalidates the whole APM argument. | ||
razkuth
Germany11 Posts
On January 09 2011 20:28 Longshank wrote: Fact of the matter is that progamers need the audience way more than the audience needs progamers. As long as there's an audience there will always be pros, something other sports have realized. Every other athlete knows his place in the hierarchy, if you so are the savior of football, lost child of Pelé and Beckenbauer - you play when and where the sponsors/organizers tells you to, be it in snow, wind, rain and hail - or all four. Only in extreme situations are matches cancelled, and then at the order of the organizers, not the players. And yeah, there is money on the line, more than any of us can imagine. In this case admins should have stepped up and made a decission, but just the fact that players somehow feel entitled to decide(not only on this occasion, been same way with HuK and Morrow in the past) shows that they don't understand the business they're in. And why they're allowed to be in it. True. Audience makes the "professional" possible. Without an audience, there is no money, so there can't be "pros". But imagine this: the caster lags in the moment, when the terran wants to split his marines because fourty banelings roll in. that would be a game deciding factor. its comparable with a referee in soccer who stands on the goal line and prevents a golden goal. Again, the audience should be the biggest factor beforehand. But when a game kicks off, the game has to be incidentless. I think a better referee system, with a referee who says "remake match" or "go on" or "leave caster" or whatever would definitely prevent stuff like that happens in the future. provided the referees word is law.. Or Blizzard switches game spectating to a 5 min delay one. I think there was something like that in a warcraft series. Don't really know. | ||
eGo.SiGns
Germany48 Posts
On January 09 2011 20:45 hoovehand wrote: anyone else find it risible at how quickly the community jumps on sjow's back? OMG SOMEONE WITH 300 APM SAID SJOW WAS BAD BECAUSE HE DOESNT SPAM CLICK TO GET 200+ APM! btw if a low APM player can beat a high APM player, that's concrete evidence that the high APM player isn't doing the correct actions and therefore invalidates the whole APM argument. Sorry, but what the hell are you trying to tell us? 0_o Noone cares if Sjow has low APM. And in fact, the reason why he lost to TLO so miserably is exactly because with his "low" (for pros) APM he wasnt able to stop the multiple attacks by TLO, so its pretty much the prime example that APM simply DO matter. At least if the actions are reasonable Regarding the post before: If a referee were to stand on the goal-line (why would he? 0_o) that may be extreme, but its clearly stated in the rules that if a ball hits the referee its the same as hitting a "wall of air". Kind of hard to explain in english, but i guess you know what i mean. So even if he did prevent the goal, thats just the way it is. Obviously he would probably never be a referee again, if he didnt have a good reason for standing on the goal-line Greetz | ||
Longshank
1648 Posts
On January 09 2011 20:45 razkuth wrote: Show nested quote + On January 09 2011 20:28 Longshank wrote: Fact of the matter is that progamers need the audience way more than the audience needs progamers. As long as there's an audience there will always be pros, something other sports have realized. Every other athlete knows his place in the hierarchy, if you so are the savior of football, lost child of Pelé and Beckenbauer - you play when and where the sponsors/organizers tells you to, be it in snow, wind, rain and hail - or all four. Only in extreme situations are matches cancelled, and then at the order of the organizers, not the players. And yeah, there is money on the line, more than any of us can imagine. In this case admins should have stepped up and made a decission, but just the fact that players somehow feel entitled to decide(not only on this occasion, been same way with HuK and Morrow in the past) shows that they don't understand the business they're in. And why they're allowed to be in it. True. Audience makes the "professional" possible. Without an audience, there is no money, so there can't be "pros". But imagine this: the caster lags in the moment, when the terran wants to split his marines because fourty banelings roll in. that would be a game deciding factor. its comparable with a referee in soccer who stands on the goal line and prevents a golden goal. If this happens then it's very unfortunate, but as everyone know, a part of the game - no goal. You don't go ahead and play the game without refs because of it. | ||
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