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On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem.
To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?"
High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation.
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There are people in GM hacking for a fact. A smart hacker will never be caught through actions alone because he can hack without being blatant, but it's enough for him to get a considerable advantage with things such as a production tab hack that are virtually impossible to catch.
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I think its just SPIDERSENSE.
This guy xD ! Thanks for the good laugh!
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On December 02 2018 07:40 SirPinky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote:On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?" High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation.
If you want to understand the cheater psyche, then you should look at the " why are they cheating? "
90% of players who use map hack like this, are just trying to get a rise out of you. I don't know what rank this was, but based on the play-style of the hacker in this game i'd say M3~M1.
These players, who cheat at that level, are just trying to piss you off. That said, the best way to deal with it is simply leave the game, and any future games you play against them.
Yes you are the victim, yes it isn't fair. However if everyone operated under that ideology most cheaters would simply go away.
I've been toying around with that idea on my stream by muting the in-game sound, and not using an auto-scene switcher and i've noticed that the majority of people who were harassing me have gone away.
This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it.
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On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. I don't think players who started with sc2 with f2p are already good enough to get master/gm even with hacks. As you said, you need to be at least somewhat close in skill to beat a better player in sc2 using hacks. I'd be very surprised if f2p has anything to with with hacking becoming more prevalent in master/gm.
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sc2 is officially too alive
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The brand new meta in TvT 5SCV scout.
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That is hacking for sure... You don't send 5 SCVs before actually knowing there is a proxy
And if you check his Bnet profile (link provided on the replay site) you will see the account is very new, made in around early November. Which tells me this is a fairly high level player trying to mess with people
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On December 02 2018 11:01 ProTech wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2018 07:40 SirPinky wrote:On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote:On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?" High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation. If you want to understand the cheater psyche, then you should look at the " why are they cheating? " 90% of players who use map hack like this, are just trying to get a rise out of you. I don't know what rank this was, but based on the play-style of the hacker in this game i'd say M3~M1. These players, who cheat at that level, are just trying to piss you off. That said, the best way to deal with it is simply leave the game, and any future games you play against them. Yes you are the victim, yes it isn't fair. However if everyone operated under that ideology most cheaters would simply go away. I've been toying around with that idea on my stream by muting the in-game sound, and not using an auto-scene switcher and i've noticed that the majority of people who were harassing me have gone away. This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it.
Not gonna lie, claiming that 90% of maphackers are doing it to piss people off seems like a pretty self-absorbed thing to believe. In my experience people who cheat in online games are either immature kids or occasionally sadder, deeply insecure people. Sure some can cheat as a means of trolling, I'm not denying that, but do you really think 90% of them know you or give a shit about you? Give me a break lmao.
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On December 02 2018 11:05 Charoisaur wrote: I don't think players who started with sc2 with f2p are already good enough to get master/gm even with hacks.
How delusional. Do you really think SC2 is such a demanding game that decent people from other games can't rush Master in a month or something?
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On December 02 2018 22:27 zokker13 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2018 11:05 Charoisaur wrote: I don't think players who started with sc2 with f2p are already good enough to get master/gm even with hacks.
How delusional. Do you really think SC2 is such a demanding game that decent people from other games can't rush Master in a month or something?
I would agree with him that they cant. SC2 is more demanding in case of mechanics and pace of the game. Cant imagine wc3 or even some CS/Dota2/LOL player becaming master or GM in 1 month. They couldnt even learn basic unit counters in that time.
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On December 02 2018 22:40 DejanM8 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2018 22:27 zokker13 wrote:On December 02 2018 11:05 Charoisaur wrote: I don't think players who started with sc2 with f2p are already good enough to get master/gm even with hacks.
How delusional. Do you really think SC2 is such a demanding game that decent people from other games can't rush Master in a month or something? I would agree with him that they cant. SC2 is more demanding in case of mechanics and pace of the game. Cant imagine wc3 or even some CS/Dota2/LOL player becaming master or GM in 1 month. They couldnt even learn basic unit counters in that time. LOL at zokker for saying you can do that. With no background in SC2 I think I'll bet that the scenario he described is rather impossible for most people on this earth.
Btw SC2 going F2P means that 'new' players can easily get to Masters because they are smurfs.
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On December 02 2018 18:09 207aicila wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2018 11:01 ProTech wrote:On December 02 2018 07:40 SirPinky wrote:On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote:On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?" High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation. If you want to understand the cheater psyche, then you should look at the " why are they cheating? " 90% of players who use map hack like this, are just trying to get a rise out of you. I don't know what rank this was, but based on the play-style of the hacker in this game i'd say M3~M1. These players, who cheat at that level, are just trying to piss you off. That said, the best way to deal with it is simply leave the game, and any future games you play against them. Yes you are the victim, yes it isn't fair. However if everyone operated under that ideology most cheaters would simply go away. I've been toying around with that idea on my stream by muting the in-game sound, and not using an auto-scene switcher and i've noticed that the majority of people who were harassing me have gone away. This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it. Not gonna lie, claiming that 90% of maphackers are doing it to piss people off seems like a pretty self-absorbed thing to believe. In my experience people who cheat in online games are either immature kids or occasionally sadder, deeply insecure people. Sure some can cheat as a means of trolling, I'm not denying that, but do you really think 90% of them know you or give a shit about you? Give me a break lmao.
I don't think that he was being particular in what he was saying; and he does have a point. Even if they don't know who you are being acknowledged, either in a good way or bad way ( fuck u cheater / wow you're really good ), gives these people some sort of validation. Not showing them any time to get this sort of response or to show you have no interest in them definitely elicits a response of: well if no1 is doing anything is this really that fun anymore?
Of course, maybe not 90%, but I'd say a large number of people who hack at least have some inclination to not receiving enough attention/drive at some form of validation (hence cheating to beat competition/show you can fight at the top)
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On December 02 2018 23:05 -Kyo- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2018 18:09 207aicila wrote:On December 02 2018 11:01 ProTech wrote:On December 02 2018 07:40 SirPinky wrote:On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote:On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?" High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation. If you want to understand the cheater psyche, then you should look at the " why are they cheating? " 90% of players who use map hack like this, are just trying to get a rise out of you. I don't know what rank this was, but based on the play-style of the hacker in this game i'd say M3~M1. These players, who cheat at that level, are just trying to piss you off. That said, the best way to deal with it is simply leave the game, and any future games you play against them. Yes you are the victim, yes it isn't fair. However if everyone operated under that ideology most cheaters would simply go away. I've been toying around with that idea on my stream by muting the in-game sound, and not using an auto-scene switcher and i've noticed that the majority of people who were harassing me have gone away. This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it. Not gonna lie, claiming that 90% of maphackers are doing it to piss people off seems like a pretty self-absorbed thing to believe. In my experience people who cheat in online games are either immature kids or occasionally sadder, deeply insecure people. Sure some can cheat as a means of trolling, I'm not denying that, but do you really think 90% of them know you or give a shit about you? Give me a break lmao. I don't think that he was being particular in what he was saying; and he does have a point. Even if they don't know who you are being acknowledged, either in a good way or bad way ( fuck u cheater / wow you're really good ), gives these people some sort of validation. Not showing them any time to get this sort of response or to show you have no interest in them definitely elicits a response of: well if no1 is doing anything is this really that fun anymore? Of course, maybe not 90%, but I'd say a large number of people who hack at least have some inclination to not receiving enough attention/drive at some form of validation (hence cheating to beat competition/show you can fight at the top)
Receiving attention by pretending to be good at something / competitive success is completely different than "to piss people off" and is in fact the insecurity I was referencing.
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On December 02 2018 22:27 zokker13 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2018 11:05 Charoisaur wrote: I don't think players who started with sc2 with f2p are already good enough to get master/gm even with hacks.
How delusional. Do you really think SC2 is such a demanding game that decent people from other games can't rush Master in a month or something? Uhhm that has nothing to do with sc2 being demanding. I don't think anyone can rush into the "master equivalent" of LoL, Dota, CS etc within a month either. Unless they're like pros, but why would a pro switch to another game for the sole purpose of hacking?
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On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem.
I don't recall saying high level (gm) hackers do not exist. I will say that they are very few and when it comes to tournaments they're pretty much none. Hacking cannot and will not ever be completely stopped in any game at this current period in time. Maybe I am naive, id rather play and work on improving my own gameplay rather than complain about the couple of games i might have run across a hacker knowing nothing can be done about it. Are these hackers preventing you from being the best sc2 player you can be? Are they preventing you from making hundreds of thousands of dollars? I don't see how losing a few games to hackers can prevent almost anyone from being where they're supposed to be. I see claiming hackers as an excuse.
I am not capable of designing a full proof system for preventing hacking in sc2 or any other game for that matter. So I choose to move on and just be patient, Ive run into 1 person I can 100% confirm hacked in my sc2 career having bought the game on release. I reported him and moved on. If I am playing against hacker it only makes me try harder. And yes if you're the best at what you do no matter the field you will most likely be well off if in your eyes and rich to many others.
Hacking is bad and having made the game f2p is what has increased the amount of hackers (that I personally never seem to run into.) and not the patch. This is the only point I was originally trying to get across.
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On December 02 2018 18:09 207aicila wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2018 11:01 ProTech wrote:On December 02 2018 07:40 SirPinky wrote:On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote:On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?" High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation. If you want to understand the cheater psyche, then you should look at the " why are they cheating? " 90% of players who use map hack like this, are just trying to get a rise out of you. I don't know what rank this was, but based on the play-style of the hacker in this game i'd say M3~M1. These players, who cheat at that level, are just trying to piss you off. That said, the best way to deal with it is simply leave the game, and any future games you play against them. Yes you are the victim, yes it isn't fair. However if everyone operated under that ideology most cheaters would simply go away. I've been toying around with that idea on my stream by muting the in-game sound, and not using an auto-scene switcher and i've noticed that the majority of people who were harassing me have gone away. This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it. Not gonna lie, claiming that 90% of maphackers are doing it to piss people off seems like a pretty self-absorbed thing to believe. In my experience people who cheat in online games are either immature kids or occasionally sadder, deeply insecure people. Sure some can cheat as a means of trolling, I'm not denying that, but do you really think 90% of them know you or give a shit about you? Give me a break lmao. What ProTech is talking about is in the view of a streamer. In context to hackers who target streamers, ProTech's point is definitely accurate. In that case it's easy to see that these hackers are trying to troll and get a rise out of streamers. Hence why ProTech's suggestion of not giving that kind of hacker the light of day works. That doesn't work for standard ladder hackers for non-streamers obviously unless you know specifically the person is a hacker.
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Saw the post on reddit too, before Strech90 posted i here. That is really ballsy to change his name to the guy who called him out for hacking.
The actual hacker is GGyo
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