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On February 21 2012 17:25 GhostOwl wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 11:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:On February 21 2012 06:09 rei wrote: well it's not just him getting gang up inside, sometimes he's being careless too, like when he turned his back toward the defender, he keeps dribbling the ball with the regular height as a result black dudes with long arms can reach over him and slap that ball away without him seeing the hand moving from behind him. He needed to do low dribble and keep his movement.
Also, his teammates looks for him to pass the ball to, even when he hand the ball off to someone, they will look for him to set up the pick and roll almost every position. Few exceptions I saw was from yesterday's game with JR Smith, that guy didn't look for Lin in few positions where he took his guy 1vs1.
It's funny the way Knicks runs the offense, Lin just run from one pick and roll to the next till something open up, get the shot up and crash the board. There were positions where the Marvs defended every single pick and roll perfectly, and Lin had to jack up 3pters over 7footers who switched during the pick and roll at the last second. I think what they should do is to have Lin do the pick and roll thing and if the other team defended it well, then drop the ball to one of their 1vs1 guys for isolation, they have 3 now, shouldn't be hard! It's comical and amazing that the first people we're comparing this scrub from nowhere to are Chris Paul and Steve Nash. I find it funny that basketball no-names like you are calling a talented player a scrub, while basketball legends like Magic Johnson and Steve Nash are praising him He's averaging 20+ points a game, and really driving Knicks offense into a formidable machine. Go back to college basketball please and stop before you embarrass yourself even more..
He was a scrub in the NBA. You're mixing my words up. I'm not insulting him, I'm saying he's so dramatically burst onto the scene that a guy with his skills is being compared to the best point guard now and the best point guard of the last decade.
I used scrub as a way to demonstrate that it is absurd to insult someone who, after starting only a handful of games, is getting praised and compared to the likes of Nash and Paul. The point is that 3 weeks ago no one even knew who he was as a player (IE: a scrub) and is now getting compared to all time greats, which speaks absurdly well of him. Learn some reading context before being offended.
On February 21 2012 18:23 shaftofpleasure wrote: That's what you would expect from a Flash fan. ^__^
Screw you. Seriously, what a stupid ad hominem.
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MURICA15980 Posts
TwoToneTerran, I think your use of "amazing" in your previous statement could be taken as an LOL trollish amazing instead of a positive way. Probably where the hate is coming from. You were clearly misunderstood, though. It's okay
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It was probably the use of the word comical, but the entire thing is pretty hilarious. It's right out of a children's story.
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LOLOL thats awesome! azn pride yo
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LOL "Super Asian Basketball DUNK!!!!"
I'm not a huge fan of the NBA but this has been fun to hear about. It's always cool when superstars fail to do the job and the little guy jumps in and makes the difference. It's funny to see some of the first posts in this thread too. Just goes to show opinions are opinions. Whether or not he keeps this going he's illustrating perfectly the adage of "expect the unexpected."
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On February 23 2012 17:40 TwoToneTerran wrote: It was probably the use of the word comical, but the entire thing is pretty hilarious. It's right out of a children's story.
Yea it is, and thats the point. I dont think anyone really has any illusions about how good he is. Most people are just enjoying the knicks winning again. And ofcourse the story helps.
So what if people call him a poor mans Steve Nash(hes not). Just let people enjoy it, I think its funny to but Im not going to step over people and try to convince them otherwise just so I can say "I told you so". (Im not suggesting thats what you did, just making a point). And your initial comment did sound pretty harsh even if that wasnt what you meant. And no hes probably not a scrub and hes certainly worth a top 20pg spot just based on his turning the knicks around at this point in time imo.
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On February 23 2012 21:43 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 17:40 TwoToneTerran wrote: It was probably the use of the word comical, but the entire thing is pretty hilarious. It's right out of a children's story. Yea it is, and thats the point. I dont think anyone really has any illusions about how good he is. Most people are just enjoying the knicks winning again. And ofcourse the story helps. So what if people call him a poor mans Steve Nash(hes not). Just let people enjoy it, I think its funny to but Im not going to step over people and try to convince them otherwise just so I can say "I told you so". (Im not suggesting thats what you did, just making a point). And your initial comment did sound pretty harsh even if that wasnt what you meant. And no hes probably not a scrub and hes certainly worth a top 20pg spot just based on his turning the knicks around at this point in time imo.
This was what I was saying too and people got overly defensive because I jabbed at comparing him to the best point guard in the league and, well, Steve Nash.
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He's definitely a starter in the league and he has the right demeanor, but his attributes aren't top notch. I think he's mostly overhyped because he's in NYC and people were desperate to see real basketball after their offense was gutted at the end of last season
He's 6'3" and reasonably tough, he's got a quick first step, he's got an excellent handle (particularly going right) such that he can consistently split defenders and doesn't need to pick up his dribble even in the lane, he's a good finisher, he has good court vision/passing mechanics, his jumpshot is much better than advertside with a quick release and high arc, he's got good hands on defense and he's got the balls to take big shots.
Does he have flaws? Sure. He gambles too much on defense, he could stand to make quicker reads sometimes instead of forcing the issue, he's weaker going to his left, and he's too careless with the ball.
But his "attributes" are frankly lottery-pick level. if teams had known that there was a quick 6'3" pg who could shoot, beat nba defenders off the dribble, and run a high performing offense just waiting around, they'd have jumped on him.
I think anyone at this point who thinks its just a fluke needs to get their head checked. There is no reason at all Lin can't average 18 pts 8 assists on this team for the forseeable future, and his upside is potentially even higher than that.
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United States22883 Posts
He actually has a slow first step, but he takes good angles around screens and his top speed is good. He already knows how to use screens well but that's something you learn, quickness is not. He is a great finisher but his dribbling is only good, and becomes poor when he leaves it high after driving or tries to turn around in the lane or just goes left. Great vision but his passing mechanics actually aren't. It doesn't really matter when he's just dumping or lobbing, plus you can learn to become a better passer, which I'm sure he will.
And this isn't a high performance offense. I don't know where you're getting that from. This is not a typical D'Antoni offense and he's not a running player. He's a half court player and they run pick and roll fairly efficiently, but they're still only putting up 95 points a game, which is middle of the pack.
His best physical attributes are strength, body control and vision but that doesn't make him a prime athlete like a Westbrook or Wall. That's why people anticipate a limit on his potential, although they don't take into account acumen which is another one of his strengths. He's not a fluke and he can average 18/8 but keep in mind Felton averaged 17/9 last year for the Knicks.
Stats really shouldn't be used to measure him anyways. The Knicks had one of the greatest stat producing guards of all time in Marbury and they were still a shitty team, whereas when Lin plays the Knicks noticeably become a good, functional, hardworking team. I don't think anyone would disagree that it's his intangibles, especially this early in a young player's career, that make him special.
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I dunno why you think his first step is slow:
http://knicksnow.com/photos/591/espn-sport-science-jeremy-lin
The ESPN Sports Science team utilized a specific drive against the Lakers where John Brenkus describes Lin’s amazing quickness, “Within three strides, he can accelerate from essentially zero to roughly 10 MPH in less than one second. That’s acceleration on par with 2010 No. 1 draft pick John Wall.”
As for passing mechanics, Lin consistently has excellent timing on lobs for teammates, and if he has a teammate open downcourt he can find them with a bullet and does so consistently. Where he runs into trouble is in making poor decisions--like a cocky quarterback, he'll sometimes try to just throw it right through the defenders and predictably tend to get pcked off.
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United States22883 Posts
That's not a first step. You'd have to see which drive it was too. He accelerates quickly towards the basket because he takes great angles around the screens, but you're not going to see him catching most good defenders off guard iso, like you would a guard with elite quickness like Parker or Paul.
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These Heat players are just way too fast on the floor. Pick and rolls failing miserably all night long. So many intercepted passes or players getting boxed in off the dribble. Scouts'll be watching reels of this game and I think the Lin-lead pick-and-roll is going to be figured out around the league pretty soon unless the Knicks roll some more varied strategies.
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yeah against the heat it probably comes down to Lin passing at the right time (when the heat set ups a trap or double team), or having melo step it up and play iso reallly well. the heat just killed the pick and roll
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anyone watching the rising star all-star game? Lin isn't shining anymore among all these players.
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On February 25 2012 12:18 nosliw wrote: anyone watching the rising star all-star game? Lin isn't shining anymore among all these players.
He's probably so unbelievably tired so I don't think it really says anything about him.
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On February 25 2012 12:18 nosliw wrote: anyone watching the rising star all-star game? Lin isn't shining anymore among all these players.
it's an exhibition match with no defense. anyone playing well or bad in the game doesn't mean much except to fans of players
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On February 25 2012 12:18 nosliw wrote: anyone watching the rising star all-star game? Lin isn't shining anymore among all these players.
lin's game isn't built for a showy exhibition, imo. my man paul george, however, has been getting alley oop after alley oop.
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