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I am new to Brood War, played quite a bit of SC2 at a Masters level.
SC: R coming soon has sparked my interest in Brood War.
I have been playing on the Fish server against Koreans mostly just trying to get mechanically better.
I was wondering if anyone would be willing to spend some time and watch me from a first person basically critiquing what I am doing, and also give me an idea how a standard game should play out and what my strategy should be.
I am playing Zerg, as that's what I played in SC2.
Thank you
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I'm a zerg and more then willing to help out. Cute_herb = Fish , Herbmon = east/west server. PM me and ill give you discord or skype info!
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Before you need coaches, I'd say pick a macro build for ZvP and ZvT and do it vs computer to the point where you're not severely behind a pro execution. Then play people and watch replays. When you fail the build, note where you're failing and work on that. It might look dry and not every macro build works vs everything the opponent does, obviously, but it's a nice approach imo. I used to work my game like that when I played actively, I was never really good, I was B at ICCup 2005, 2006. But this method worked tremendously well for me, made me focus on macro, scouting and timing defense than to have my attention on micro. I mostly was failing at making pylons and I stressed on that. Even now I rarely miss them so yeah, it has become a habit.
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good luck with your BroodWar journey!
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if he was master level in SC2 he doesn't need to play vs a computer, mechanics in broodwar aren't much harder than in SC2, it's just more control groups but the pace is slower
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Im new to brood war too. Any one want to coach a terran?
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I have a small group of master(ish) level players that are practicing together in the evenings throughout the week. Feel free to hit me up sometime.
US WEST - res0rt Channel - reso
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Thanks for the responses guys.
My preferred way of contact would be skype so that I can screen share. Discord would work as well as I have a twitch stream that could be used for the same purpose.
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On June 28 2017 21:47 ROOTFayth wrote: if he was master level in SC2 he doesn't need to play vs a computer, mechanics in broodwar aren't much harder than in SC2, it's just more control groups but the pace is slower
this is just incredibly untrue.
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Upload replays or you won't hear the end of it. People have a better idea how much they need to tell you to help you out with show cases of your game.
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On June 29 2017 03:02 ldv wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2017 21:47 ROOTFayth wrote: if he was master level in SC2 he doesn't need to play vs a computer, mechanics in broodwar aren't much harder than in SC2, it's just more control groups but the pace is slower this is just incredibly untrue.
Definitely not untrue.
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On June 29 2017 03:50 -Switch- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 03:02 ldv wrote:On June 28 2017 21:47 ROOTFayth wrote: if he was master level in SC2 he doesn't need to play vs a computer, mechanics in broodwar aren't much harder than in SC2, it's just more control groups but the pace is slower this is just incredibly untrue. Definitely not untrue.
okay then show me all the SC2 master level players who come across with good mechanics. go ahead, i'll wait.
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On June 29 2017 03:54 ldv wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 03:50 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:02 ldv wrote:On June 28 2017 21:47 ROOTFayth wrote: if he was master level in SC2 he doesn't need to play vs a computer, mechanics in broodwar aren't much harder than in SC2, it's just more control groups but the pace is slower this is just incredibly untrue. Definitely not untrue. okay then show me all the SC2 master level players who come across with good mechanics. go ahead, i'll wait.
Because there is such a huge sample of people swapping from SC2 to Broodwar who haven't played BW before? lol I don't think so.
Maybe lets wait for remastered and we can judge this a bit better. I was a Grandmaster in sc2 and have been playing BW for a little over 2 weeks now. I can tell you a lot of the mechanics/skillsets transfer over and make you better at broodwar as well.
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On June 29 2017 04:02 -Switch- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 03:54 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 03:50 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:02 ldv wrote:On June 28 2017 21:47 ROOTFayth wrote: if he was master level in SC2 he doesn't need to play vs a computer, mechanics in broodwar aren't much harder than in SC2, it's just more control groups but the pace is slower this is just incredibly untrue. Definitely not untrue. okay then show me all the SC2 master level players who come across with good mechanics. go ahead, i'll wait. Because there is such a huge sample of people swapping from SC2 to Broodwar who haven't played BW before? lol I don't think so. Maybe lets wait for remastered and we can judge this a bit better. I was a Grandmaster in sc2 and have been playing BW for a little over 2 weeks now. I can tell you a lot of the mechanics/skillsets transfer over and make you better at broodwar as well. No offense, but if you've been playing for a little over 2 weeks, you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player. The mechanics are too different, too much more involved in Brood War. I'm not being an elitist (I was an SC2 GM as well) it's just observable. I think most people just don't realize how high the mechanical skill ceiling is in Brood War. It's 50 stories high and even the best foreign brood war players don't get halfway there.
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On June 29 2017 04:09 ldv wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 04:02 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:54 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 03:50 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:02 ldv wrote:On June 28 2017 21:47 ROOTFayth wrote: if he was master level in SC2 he doesn't need to play vs a computer, mechanics in broodwar aren't much harder than in SC2, it's just more control groups but the pace is slower this is just incredibly untrue. Definitely not untrue. okay then show me all the SC2 master level players who come across with good mechanics. go ahead, i'll wait. Because there is such a huge sample of people swapping from SC2 to Broodwar who haven't played BW before? lol I don't think so. Maybe lets wait for remastered and we can judge this a bit better. I was a Grandmaster in sc2 and have been playing BW for a little over 2 weeks now. I can tell you a lot of the mechanics/skillsets transfer over and make you better at broodwar as well. No offense, but if you've been playing for a little over 2 weeks, you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player. The mechanics are too different, too much more involved in Brood War. I'm not being an elitist (I was an SC2 GM as well) it's just observable. I think most people just don't realize how high the mechanical skill ceiling is in Brood War. It's 50 stories high and even the best foreign brood war players don't get halfway there.
Elitist detected.
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I am D on fish and I still play vs the computer occasionally to fine tune my build orders.
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On June 29 2017 04:09 ldv wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 04:02 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:54 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 03:50 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:02 ldv wrote:On June 28 2017 21:47 ROOTFayth wrote: if he was master level in SC2 he doesn't need to play vs a computer, mechanics in broodwar aren't much harder than in SC2, it's just more control groups but the pace is slower this is just incredibly untrue. Definitely not untrue. okay then show me all the SC2 master level players who come across with good mechanics. go ahead, i'll wait. Because there is such a huge sample of people swapping from SC2 to Broodwar who haven't played BW before? lol I don't think so. Maybe lets wait for remastered and we can judge this a bit better. I was a Grandmaster in sc2 and have been playing BW for a little over 2 weeks now. I can tell you a lot of the mechanics/skillsets transfer over and make you better at broodwar as well. No offense, but if you've been playing for a little over 2 weeks, you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player. The mechanics are too different, too much more involved in Brood War. I'm not being an elitist (I was an SC2 GM as well) it's just observable. I think most people just don't realize how high the mechanical skill ceiling is in Brood War. It's 50 stories high and even the best foreign brood war players don't get halfway there.
Just going to tell you as someone who plays with Switch, he's easily above D+. It isn't hard to get D+ on iccup, specially now of days. Mechanics do transfer over, not 100%, but if you could macro good in sc2 it won't take you long to get that on BW. The harder part is learning timings/builds and reacting to stuff then the mechanics.
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On June 29 2017 04:17 -Switch- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 04:09 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:02 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:54 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 03:50 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:02 ldv wrote:On June 28 2017 21:47 ROOTFayth wrote: if he was master level in SC2 he doesn't need to play vs a computer, mechanics in broodwar aren't much harder than in SC2, it's just more control groups but the pace is slower this is just incredibly untrue. Definitely not untrue. okay then show me all the SC2 master level players who come across with good mechanics. go ahead, i'll wait. Because there is such a huge sample of people swapping from SC2 to Broodwar who haven't played BW before? lol I don't think so. Maybe lets wait for remastered and we can judge this a bit better. I was a Grandmaster in sc2 and have been playing BW for a little over 2 weeks now. I can tell you a lot of the mechanics/skillsets transfer over and make you better at broodwar as well. No offense, but if you've been playing for a little over 2 weeks, you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player. The mechanics are too different, too much more involved in Brood War. I'm not being an elitist (I was an SC2 GM as well) it's just observable. I think most people just don't realize how high the mechanical skill ceiling is in Brood War. It's 50 stories high and even the best foreign brood war players don't get halfway there. Elitist detected. okay, well if you're going to be a child I guess there's no point in the discussion.
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On June 29 2017 04:19 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 04:09 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:02 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:54 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 03:50 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:02 ldv wrote:On June 28 2017 21:47 ROOTFayth wrote: if he was master level in SC2 he doesn't need to play vs a computer, mechanics in broodwar aren't much harder than in SC2, it's just more control groups but the pace is slower this is just incredibly untrue. Definitely not untrue. okay then show me all the SC2 master level players who come across with good mechanics. go ahead, i'll wait. Because there is such a huge sample of people swapping from SC2 to Broodwar who haven't played BW before? lol I don't think so. Maybe lets wait for remastered and we can judge this a bit better. I was a Grandmaster in sc2 and have been playing BW for a little over 2 weeks now. I can tell you a lot of the mechanics/skillsets transfer over and make you better at broodwar as well. No offense, but if you've been playing for a little over 2 weeks, you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player. The mechanics are too different, too much more involved in Brood War. I'm not being an elitist (I was an SC2 GM as well) it's just observable. I think most people just don't realize how high the mechanical skill ceiling is in Brood War. It's 50 stories high and even the best foreign brood war players don't get halfway there. Just going to tell you as someone who plays with Switch, he's easily above D+. It isn't hard to get D+ on iccup, specially now of days. Mechanics do transfer over, not 100%, but if you could macro good in sc2 it won't take you long to get that on BW. The harder part is learning timings/builds and reacting to stuff then the mechanics. no he's not. it's just not possible to be C- iccup in two weeks of brood war practice. it just isn't, that's a nonsense claim.
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On June 29 2017 04:28 ldv wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 04:17 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 04:09 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:02 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:54 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 03:50 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:02 ldv wrote:On June 28 2017 21:47 ROOTFayth wrote: if he was master level in SC2 he doesn't need to play vs a computer, mechanics in broodwar aren't much harder than in SC2, it's just more control groups but the pace is slower this is just incredibly untrue. Definitely not untrue. okay then show me all the SC2 master level players who come across with good mechanics. go ahead, i'll wait. Because there is such a huge sample of people swapping from SC2 to Broodwar who haven't played BW before? lol I don't think so. Maybe lets wait for remastered and we can judge this a bit better. I was a Grandmaster in sc2 and have been playing BW for a little over 2 weeks now. I can tell you a lot of the mechanics/skillsets transfer over and make you better at broodwar as well. No offense, but if you've been playing for a little over 2 weeks, you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player. The mechanics are too different, too much more involved in Brood War. I'm not being an elitist (I was an SC2 GM as well) it's just observable. I think most people just don't realize how high the mechanical skill ceiling is in Brood War. It's 50 stories high and even the best foreign brood war players don't get halfway there. Elitist detected. okay, well if you're going to be a child I guess there's no point in the discussion.
"you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player."
Why just call someone out when you have never seen them play? What rank are you on fish/iccup? Assuming you must be a pretty high level player.
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On June 29 2017 04:35 -Switch- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 04:28 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:17 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 04:09 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:02 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:54 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 03:50 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:02 ldv wrote:On June 28 2017 21:47 ROOTFayth wrote: if he was master level in SC2 he doesn't need to play vs a computer, mechanics in broodwar aren't much harder than in SC2, it's just more control groups but the pace is slower this is just incredibly untrue. Definitely not untrue. okay then show me all the SC2 master level players who come across with good mechanics. go ahead, i'll wait. Because there is such a huge sample of people swapping from SC2 to Broodwar who haven't played BW before? lol I don't think so. Maybe lets wait for remastered and we can judge this a bit better. I was a Grandmaster in sc2 and have been playing BW for a little over 2 weeks now. I can tell you a lot of the mechanics/skillsets transfer over and make you better at broodwar as well. No offense, but if you've been playing for a little over 2 weeks, you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player. The mechanics are too different, too much more involved in Brood War. I'm not being an elitist (I was an SC2 GM as well) it's just observable. I think most people just don't realize how high the mechanical skill ceiling is in Brood War. It's 50 stories high and even the best foreign brood war players don't get halfway there. Elitist detected. okay, well if you're going to be a child I guess there's no point in the discussion. "you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player." Why just call someone out when you have never seen them play? What rank are you on fish/iccup? Assuming you must be a pretty high level player. I'm not "calling anyone out" I'm stating a pretty obvious fact that it takes a lot of fucking work to get even basic macro mechanics in this game. Just the fundamental stuff where you're not floating 3k, 4k 10 minutes into the game. That's not trivial stuff, most people spend months getting there.
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Idv, it's really not that hard. Idk why you think it's this godlike ceiling but he doesn't float anywhere close to 3k in 10 minutes. If he was completely new to starcraft in general then yes I would agree with you. But if you have good mechanics in sc2, it will transfer over. You dont' all of a sudden not make probes or not make units because you started at an older version of starcraft.
Regardless OP feel free to shoot me a PM or message me on Fish (Blade55555) and we can go over a few replays.
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On June 29 2017 04:36 ldv wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 04:35 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 04:28 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:17 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 04:09 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:02 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:54 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 03:50 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:02 ldv wrote:On June 28 2017 21:47 ROOTFayth wrote: if he was master level in SC2 he doesn't need to play vs a computer, mechanics in broodwar aren't much harder than in SC2, it's just more control groups but the pace is slower this is just incredibly untrue. Definitely not untrue. okay then show me all the SC2 master level players who come across with good mechanics. go ahead, i'll wait. Because there is such a huge sample of people swapping from SC2 to Broodwar who haven't played BW before? lol I don't think so. Maybe lets wait for remastered and we can judge this a bit better. I was a Grandmaster in sc2 and have been playing BW for a little over 2 weeks now. I can tell you a lot of the mechanics/skillsets transfer over and make you better at broodwar as well. No offense, but if you've been playing for a little over 2 weeks, you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player. The mechanics are too different, too much more involved in Brood War. I'm not being an elitist (I was an SC2 GM as well) it's just observable. I think most people just don't realize how high the mechanical skill ceiling is in Brood War. It's 50 stories high and even the best foreign brood war players don't get halfway there. Elitist detected. okay, well if you're going to be a child I guess there's no point in the discussion. "you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player." Why just call someone out when you have never seen them play? What rank are you on fish/iccup? Assuming you must be a pretty high level player. I'm not "calling anyone out" I'm stating a pretty obvious fact that it takes a lot of fucking work to get even basic macro mechanics in this game. Just the fundamental stuff where you're not floating 3k, 4k 10 minutes into the game. That's not trivial stuff, most people spend months getting there.
I never said that BW wasn't hard. That would obviously be absurd... I didn't think I would actually have to explicitly say that. It's certainly one of the hardest games out there to master.
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On June 29 2017 04:35 -Switch- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 04:28 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:17 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 04:09 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:02 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:54 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 03:50 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:02 ldv wrote:On June 28 2017 21:47 ROOTFayth wrote: if he was master level in SC2 he doesn't need to play vs a computer, mechanics in broodwar aren't much harder than in SC2, it's just more control groups but the pace is slower this is just incredibly untrue. Definitely not untrue. okay then show me all the SC2 master level players who come across with good mechanics. go ahead, i'll wait. Because there is such a huge sample of people swapping from SC2 to Broodwar who haven't played BW before? lol I don't think so. Maybe lets wait for remastered and we can judge this a bit better. I was a Grandmaster in sc2 and have been playing BW for a little over 2 weeks now. I can tell you a lot of the mechanics/skillsets transfer over and make you better at broodwar as well. No offense, but if you've been playing for a little over 2 weeks, you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player. The mechanics are too different, too much more involved in Brood War. I'm not being an elitist (I was an SC2 GM as well) it's just observable. I think most people just don't realize how high the mechanical skill ceiling is in Brood War. It's 50 stories high and even the best foreign brood war players don't get halfway there. Elitist detected. okay, well if you're going to be a child I guess there's no point in the discussion. "you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player." Why just call someone out when you have never seen them play? What rank are you on fish/iccup? Assuming you must be a pretty high level player.
In fairness, this isn't a callout.
It's more just like a "this doesn't happen" argument. It would be a little like hearing that Lance Armstrong is switch from cycling to running, and in two weeks he has the fitness for running under 3 hours in the marathon. Something like that happening would be unheard of, even for the insanely talented, it just takes a certain amount of time to reach that point.
I won't comment heavily on ldv's actual point as I don't have enough experience, having only played BW, to give a good assertion. I'm inclined to say Mekhami's perhaps a little overstated, a person with the right motivation and especially prior experience with a game like starcraft could probably achieve C- just a few weeks...but any case such as that would be a major outlier, that much is certain.
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On June 29 2017 03:27 GeckoXp wrote: Upload replays or you won't hear the end of it. People have a better idea how much they need to tell you to help you out with show cases of your game. This. At least I have no idea what master league translates to in terms of BW abilities.
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On June 29 2017 04:46 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 04:35 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 04:28 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:17 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 04:09 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:02 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:54 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 03:50 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:02 ldv wrote:On June 28 2017 21:47 ROOTFayth wrote: if he was master level in SC2 he doesn't need to play vs a computer, mechanics in broodwar aren't much harder than in SC2, it's just more control groups but the pace is slower this is just incredibly untrue. Definitely not untrue. okay then show me all the SC2 master level players who come across with good mechanics. go ahead, i'll wait. Because there is such a huge sample of people swapping from SC2 to Broodwar who haven't played BW before? lol I don't think so. Maybe lets wait for remastered and we can judge this a bit better. I was a Grandmaster in sc2 and have been playing BW for a little over 2 weeks now. I can tell you a lot of the mechanics/skillsets transfer over and make you better at broodwar as well. No offense, but if you've been playing for a little over 2 weeks, you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player. The mechanics are too different, too much more involved in Brood War. I'm not being an elitist (I was an SC2 GM as well) it's just observable. I think most people just don't realize how high the mechanical skill ceiling is in Brood War. It's 50 stories high and even the best foreign brood war players don't get halfway there. Elitist detected. okay, well if you're going to be a child I guess there's no point in the discussion. "you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player." Why just call someone out when you have never seen them play? What rank are you on fish/iccup? Assuming you must be a pretty high level player. In fairness, this isn't a callout. It's more just like a "this doesn't happen" argument. It would be a little like hearing that Lance Armstrong is switch from cycling to running, and in two weeks he has the fitness for running under 3 hours in the marathon. Something like that happening would be unheard of, even for the insanely talented, it just takes a certain amount of time to reach that point. I won't comment heavily ldv's actually point as I don't have enough experience, having only played BW, to give a good assertion. I'm inclined to say Mekhami's perhaps a little overstated, a person with the right motivation and especially prior experience with a game like starcraft could probably achieve C- just a few weeks...but any case such as that would be a major outlier, that much is certain.
So what a drew from this is I should enter the Tour de France.
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My experience watching sc2 masters / whatever players streaming brood war on twitch leads me to believe that those without prior bw experience have a lot of issues with macro and organization in bw. I have no idea what D+ skill looks right now but I'm willing to bet that D+ bw only players have different deficiencies than sc2 players that just switched.
Also some people are just going to pick BW up quick and it has nothing to do with their SC2 experience.
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On June 29 2017 04:59 CobaltBlu wrote: My experience watching sc2 masters / whatever players streaming brood war on twitch leads me to believe that those without prior bw experience have a lot of issues with macro and organization in bw. I have no idea what D+ skill looks right now but I'm willing to bet that D+ bw only players have different deficiencies than sc2 players that just switched.
Also some people are just going to pick BW up quick and it has nothing to do with their SC2 experience.
I think this is a fair assessment. However SC2 experience is not irrelevant.
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But yeah lets get OP a coach. This thread has been derailed.
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On June 29 2017 05:01 -Switch- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 04:59 CobaltBlu wrote: My experience watching sc2 masters / whatever players streaming brood war on twitch leads me to believe that those without prior bw experience have a lot of issues with macro and organization in bw. I have no idea what D+ skill looks right now but I'm willing to bet that D+ bw only players have different deficiencies than sc2 players that just switched.
Also some people are just going to pick BW up quick and it has nothing to do with their SC2 experience. I think this is a fair assessment. However SC2 experience is not irrelevant.
It's relevant. Hopefully nobody is crazy enough to try and argue that SC2 experience, especially at high level, isn't going to be beneficial when learning BW.
On June 29 2017 04:54 -Switch- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 04:46 L_Master wrote:On June 29 2017 04:35 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 04:28 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:17 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 04:09 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:02 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:54 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 03:50 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:02 ldv wrote: [quote]
this is just incredibly untrue. Definitely not untrue. okay then show me all the SC2 master level players who come across with good mechanics. go ahead, i'll wait. Because there is such a huge sample of people swapping from SC2 to Broodwar who haven't played BW before? lol I don't think so. Maybe lets wait for remastered and we can judge this a bit better. I was a Grandmaster in sc2 and have been playing BW for a little over 2 weeks now. I can tell you a lot of the mechanics/skillsets transfer over and make you better at broodwar as well. No offense, but if you've been playing for a little over 2 weeks, you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player. The mechanics are too different, too much more involved in Brood War. I'm not being an elitist (I was an SC2 GM as well) it's just observable. I think most people just don't realize how high the mechanical skill ceiling is in Brood War. It's 50 stories high and even the best foreign brood war players don't get halfway there. Elitist detected. okay, well if you're going to be a child I guess there's no point in the discussion. "you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player." Why just call someone out when you have never seen them play? What rank are you on fish/iccup? Assuming you must be a pretty high level player. In fairness, this isn't a callout. It's more just like a "this doesn't happen" argument. It would be a little like hearing that Lance Armstrong is switching from cycling to running, and in two weeks he has the fitness for running under 3 hours in the marathon. Something like that happening would be unheard of, even for the insanely talented, it just takes a certain amount of time to reach that point. I won't comment heavily on ldv's actual point as I don't have enough experience, having only played BW, to give a good assertion. I'm inclined to say Mekhami's point is perhaps a little overstated, a person with the right motivation and especially prior experience with a game like starcraft could probably achieve C- in just a few weeks...but any case such as that would be a major outlier, that much is certain. So what a drew from this is I should enter the Tour de France.
I mean sure...if you think that ldv's point is accurate, making you a true outlier; and if you think being an outlier in BW suggests being an outlier in cycling.
As for as I can tell though, you don't agree with either premise; so I'll go with the don't drop what you're doing and go all in for the Tour option.
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On June 29 2017 05:17 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 05:01 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 04:59 CobaltBlu wrote: My experience watching sc2 masters / whatever players streaming brood war on twitch leads me to believe that those without prior bw experience have a lot of issues with macro and organization in bw. I have no idea what D+ skill looks right now but I'm willing to bet that D+ bw only players have different deficiencies than sc2 players that just switched.
Also some people are just going to pick BW up quick and it has nothing to do with their SC2 experience. I think this is a fair assessment. However SC2 experience is not irrelevant. It's relevant. Hopefully nobody is crazy enough to try and argue that SC2 experience, especially at high level, isn't going to be beneficial when learning BW. Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 04:54 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 04:46 L_Master wrote:On June 29 2017 04:35 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 04:28 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:17 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 04:09 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:02 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:54 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 03:50 -Switch- wrote: [quote]
Definitely not untrue. okay then show me all the SC2 master level players who come across with good mechanics. go ahead, i'll wait. Because there is such a huge sample of people swapping from SC2 to Broodwar who haven't played BW before? lol I don't think so. Maybe lets wait for remastered and we can judge this a bit better. I was a Grandmaster in sc2 and have been playing BW for a little over 2 weeks now. I can tell you a lot of the mechanics/skillsets transfer over and make you better at broodwar as well. No offense, but if you've been playing for a little over 2 weeks, you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player. The mechanics are too different, too much more involved in Brood War. I'm not being an elitist (I was an SC2 GM as well) it's just observable. I think most people just don't realize how high the mechanical skill ceiling is in Brood War. It's 50 stories high and even the best foreign brood war players don't get halfway there. Elitist detected. okay, well if you're going to be a child I guess there's no point in the discussion. "you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player." Why just call someone out when you have never seen them play? What rank are you on fish/iccup? Assuming you must be a pretty high level player. In fairness, this isn't a callout. It's more just like a "this doesn't happen" argument. It would be a little like hearing that Lance Armstrong is switching from cycling to running, and in two weeks he has the fitness for running under 3 hours in the marathon. Something like that happening would be unheard of, even for the insanely talented, it just takes a certain amount of time to reach that point. I won't comment heavily on ldv's actual point as I don't have enough experience, having only played BW, to give a good assertion. I'm inclined to say Mekhami's point is perhaps a little overstated, a person with the right motivation and especially prior experience with a game like starcraft could probably achieve C- in just a few weeks...but any case such as that would be a major outlier, that much is certain. So what a drew from this is I should enter the Tour de France. I mean sure...if you think that ldv's point is accurate, making you a true outlier; and if you think being an outlier in BW suggests being an outlier in cycling. As for as I can tell though, you don't agree with either premise; so I'll go with the don't drop what you're doing and go all in for the Tour option.
I just ordered my bike.... Hope they have a good refund policy I agree with the first premise. not the second since I would have no desire to cycle... Other sports perhaps.
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everyone thinks themselves an outlier. in reality, they just overestimate their abilities.
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Can't you just watch the person play before judging how good they are? Gosh
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On June 29 2017 05:35 ldv wrote: everyone thinks themselves an outlier. in reality, they just overestimate their abilities.
lol. Also you never said what rank you were?
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I went from having 170 apm in BW (pre SC2) to 300apm post SC2, my BW mechanics got much better
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I am the best coach in all of history. Just ignore all prior comments and message me.
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On June 28 2017 21:47 ROOTFayth wrote: if he was master level in SC2 he doesn't need to play vs a computer, mechanics in broodwar aren't much harder than in SC2, it's just more control groups but the pace is slower I was master league in SC2, but I still had to practice builds in BW. I even played BW before SC2 - the meta has changed so all the builds are slightly different.
Master league is not that hard, I had to try much harder to reach C in BW than Master league in SC2 in LotV.
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On June 29 2017 06:17 TT1 wrote:I went from having 170 apm in BW (pre SC2) to 300apm post SC2, my BW mechanics got much better
Sure that isn't from your newfound coke habit?
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On June 29 2017 06:57 SCC-Faust wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 06:17 TT1 wrote:I went from having 170 apm in BW (pre SC2) to 300apm post SC2, my BW mechanics got much better Sure that isn't from your newfound coke habit?
it cant be i only drink coke zero :3
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Bisutopia19034 Posts
On June 29 2017 06:17 TT1 wrote:I went from having 170 apm in BW (pre SC2) to 300apm post SC2, my BW mechanics got much better Agreed, i improved after playing SC2 also. The similar mechanics but different gameplay helped me out. Im terrible at SC but i can keep my bank under 1k on 4 bases. :D
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On June 29 2017 09:24 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 06:17 TT1 wrote:I went from having 170 apm in BW (pre SC2) to 300apm post SC2, my BW mechanics got much better Agreed, i improved after playing SC2 also. The similar mechanics but different gameplay helped me out. Im terrible at SC but i can keep my bank under 1k on 4 bases. :D
Yea SC2 is a very multi-task oriented game, understanding how to practice and how to hotkey my stuff efficiently (namely using camera keys) also helped me out a ton.
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On June 29 2017 04:35 -Switch- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 04:28 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:17 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 04:09 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:02 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:54 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 03:50 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:02 ldv wrote:On June 28 2017 21:47 ROOTFayth wrote: if he was master level in SC2 he doesn't need to play vs a computer, mechanics in broodwar aren't much harder than in SC2, it's just more control groups but the pace is slower this is just incredibly untrue. Definitely not untrue. okay then show me all the SC2 master level players who come across with good mechanics. go ahead, i'll wait. Because there is such a huge sample of people swapping from SC2 to Broodwar who haven't played BW before? lol I don't think so. Maybe lets wait for remastered and we can judge this a bit better. I was a Grandmaster in sc2 and have been playing BW for a little over 2 weeks now. I can tell you a lot of the mechanics/skillsets transfer over and make you better at broodwar as well. No offense, but if you've been playing for a little over 2 weeks, you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player. The mechanics are too different, too much more involved in Brood War. I'm not being an elitist (I was an SC2 GM as well) it's just observable. I think most people just don't realize how high the mechanical skill ceiling is in Brood War. It's 50 stories high and even the best foreign brood war players don't get halfway there. Elitist detected. okay, well if you're going to be a child I guess there's no point in the discussion. "you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player." Why just call someone out when you have never seen them play? What rank are you on fish/iccup? Assuming you must be a pretty high level player.
I dont care what your skill level is after 2 weeks of playing u are not going to be c- especially if u never played bw previously
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i don't see why 2 weeks C (iccup not fish) level is impossible for an sc2 grand master, back in 2011 (?) when i picked up sc2 i was arround B-/B level iccup constantly, and i got to masters in about four weeks of playing/studying the game... then i quit the game cause Broodlord infestor imba vs Terran. i don't see why an sc2 grand master can't learn the game in 4 weeks and become decent quickly..
sc2 has the basic strategy down... for example: expand while attacking, they also know that scouting is a key aspect to the game, they can harass while doing something else... they just got to get clean builds and learn how to read difficult situations, i think the main difference for an sc2 expert in bw is that army composition doesnt matter that much compared to sc2, is more about how much stuff you have and how you manage your big army, also selecting single defiler/ht/vessel to use abilities may be a pain in the ass for them.
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I wish I could help but I havn't a lot of free time nowadays (and I sux anyway), in case, you can come on Europe the week-end . Good luck and above all: have fun!
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Jesus. The elitism is so strong within BW these days.
I can definitely confirm that the mechanic gap between SC2 and BW is heavily exaggerated. There are even tcertain situations where the taxing on your mechanics is heavier in SC2 than in BW.
I think a lot of people are confusing the AI restrictions in BW with mechanics. These are incredibly taxing on your precision but not on your multitasking. They also require you to be more repetitive when issuing actions (i.e. you need to press 1a2a3a4a 4 times instead of 1) yes this will naturally make your APM go up but it doesn't mean that your mechanics are inherently better. I'm the perfect example of that, coming from 9 years of having played BW I'd do so many repetitive things in SC2 which made my APM sky-rocket. (Went from like 290-320 in BW to 390-420 in SC2) but I wouldn't say my multitasking was better for it.
For what its worth this is speaking from experience having played both games (SC2 GM/ICCup A-) at a relatively high level. Also you can probably ask anyone (which is already confirmed by TT1, Fayth and XenOsky) who have played both games on a high level that the difference is being exeggareted.
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On June 29 2017 17:30 dignitas.merz wrote: Jesus. The elitism is so strong within BW these days.
I can definitely confirm that the mechanic gap between SC2 and BW is heavily exaggerated. There are even tcertain situations where the taxing on your mechanics is heavier in SC2 than in BW.
I think a lot of people are confusing the AI restrictions in BW with mechanics. These are incredibly taxing on your precision but not on your multitasking. They also require you to be more repetitive when issuing actions (i.e. you need to press 1a2a3a4a 4 times instead of 1) yes this will naturally make your APM go up but it doesn't mean that your mechanics are inherently better. I'm the perfect example of that, coming from 9 years of having played BW I'd do so many repetitive things in SC2 which made my APM sky-rocket. (Went from like 290-320 in BW to 390-420 in SC2) but I wouldn't say my multitasking was better for it.
For what its worth this is speaking from experience having played both games (SC2 GM/ICCup A-) at a relatively high level. Also you can probably ask anyone (which is already confirmed by TT1, Fayth and XenOsky) who have played both games on a high level that the difference is being exeggareted.
It is exaggerated that's true indeed.
And the comment about "D+ in 2 weeks" I guess is just way too broad... There's these kids who are in school and are easily able to play 5+ hours a day. If you focus correctly, were a decent player in SC2 and have that amount of time - I think it's absolutely possible.
If you're in your mid thirties like me, you don't have the time, energy or motivation to play that amount of games Good thing I've played tens of thousands of BW matches already
I'd like it if people would stop bitching about SC2 players and stop the "my game is better than yours" shit... If you're friendly and give them some advice and motivate them, you might convert them. Bashing their previous game (which isn't even a good point, because they're probably way too young to have played BW...) whatever it was, doesn't really make sense and will just alienate new players and decrease chances of a BW comeback (outside of Korea).
So... quit your bitching, be happy we get a remastered version and encourage new players to try the game. ... Please!!!
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shouldn't these requests be posted in the practice partner thread?
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hadn't played broodwar in 10 yrs, came back and got C+ within a few days, there are no koreans on iccup, it's a joke, it's not that hard, mechanics translate pretty well from SC2 to broodwar, anybody saying otherwise is clueless or deluded
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On June 29 2017 03:54 ldv wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 03:50 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:02 ldv wrote:On June 28 2017 21:47 ROOTFayth wrote: if he was master level in SC2 he doesn't need to play vs a computer, mechanics in broodwar aren't much harder than in SC2, it's just more control groups but the pace is slower this is just incredibly untrue. Definitely not untrue. okay then show me all the SC2 master level players who come across with good mechanics. go ahead, i'll wait.
I'm here
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Just ask anything here, I'm sure you will have responses on any related bw question you have in mind. Welcome to broodwar!
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While we're in this thread, merz teach me terran ?
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Russian Federation104 Posts
Lmao, those ppl will be like - BW is 10x harder to play than sc2. There is defenitely less competition in bw thse days, taking into account like 50x ppl play sc2. Also It's kinda reminiscent of "terran plat > toss high ml" sc2 trash talks xD
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On June 29 2017 20:50 ROOTFayth wrote: hadn't played broodwar in 10 yrs, came back and got C+ within a few days, there are no koreans on iccup, it's a joke, it's not that hard, mechanics translate pretty well from SC2 to broodwar, anybody saying otherwise is clueless or deluded
Weird. I play broodwar for 11years and for me it's pretty hard.
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I don't think getting to C- is very hard for you no, stop trolling
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I am not trolling. I am saying that mechanics in bw are pretty hard for me.
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bw mechanics are objectively difficult. trutacz isn't saying c- is hard, the game is.
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Gratulations for not writing a single post to help the OP.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36669 Posts
On June 30 2017 04:44 GeckoXp wrote: Gratulations for not writing a single post to help the OP.
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