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On June 29 2017 04:35 -Switch- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 04:28 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:17 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 04:09 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:02 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:54 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 03:50 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:02 ldv wrote:On June 28 2017 21:47 ROOTFayth wrote: if he was master level in SC2 he doesn't need to play vs a computer, mechanics in broodwar aren't much harder than in SC2, it's just more control groups but the pace is slower this is just incredibly untrue. Definitely not untrue. okay then show me all the SC2 master level players who come across with good mechanics. go ahead, i'll wait. Because there is such a huge sample of people swapping from SC2 to Broodwar who haven't played BW before? lol I don't think so. Maybe lets wait for remastered and we can judge this a bit better. I was a Grandmaster in sc2 and have been playing BW for a little over 2 weeks now. I can tell you a lot of the mechanics/skillsets transfer over and make you better at broodwar as well. No offense, but if you've been playing for a little over 2 weeks, you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player. The mechanics are too different, too much more involved in Brood War. I'm not being an elitist (I was an SC2 GM as well) it's just observable. I think most people just don't realize how high the mechanical skill ceiling is in Brood War. It's 50 stories high and even the best foreign brood war players don't get halfway there. Elitist detected. okay, well if you're going to be a child I guess there's no point in the discussion. "you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player." Why just call someone out when you have never seen them play? What rank are you on fish/iccup? Assuming you must be a pretty high level player. I'm not "calling anyone out" I'm stating a pretty obvious fact that it takes a lot of fucking work to get even basic macro mechanics in this game. Just the fundamental stuff where you're not floating 3k, 4k 10 minutes into the game. That's not trivial stuff, most people spend months getting there.
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Idv, it's really not that hard. Idk why you think it's this godlike ceiling but he doesn't float anywhere close to 3k in 10 minutes. If he was completely new to starcraft in general then yes I would agree with you. But if you have good mechanics in sc2, it will transfer over. You dont' all of a sudden not make probes or not make units because you started at an older version of starcraft.
Regardless OP feel free to shoot me a PM or message me on Fish (Blade55555) and we can go over a few replays.
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On June 29 2017 04:36 ldv wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 04:35 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 04:28 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:17 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 04:09 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:02 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:54 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 03:50 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:02 ldv wrote:On June 28 2017 21:47 ROOTFayth wrote: if he was master level in SC2 he doesn't need to play vs a computer, mechanics in broodwar aren't much harder than in SC2, it's just more control groups but the pace is slower this is just incredibly untrue. Definitely not untrue. okay then show me all the SC2 master level players who come across with good mechanics. go ahead, i'll wait. Because there is such a huge sample of people swapping from SC2 to Broodwar who haven't played BW before? lol I don't think so. Maybe lets wait for remastered and we can judge this a bit better. I was a Grandmaster in sc2 and have been playing BW for a little over 2 weeks now. I can tell you a lot of the mechanics/skillsets transfer over and make you better at broodwar as well. No offense, but if you've been playing for a little over 2 weeks, you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player. The mechanics are too different, too much more involved in Brood War. I'm not being an elitist (I was an SC2 GM as well) it's just observable. I think most people just don't realize how high the mechanical skill ceiling is in Brood War. It's 50 stories high and even the best foreign brood war players don't get halfway there. Elitist detected. okay, well if you're going to be a child I guess there's no point in the discussion. "you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player." Why just call someone out when you have never seen them play? What rank are you on fish/iccup? Assuming you must be a pretty high level player. I'm not "calling anyone out" I'm stating a pretty obvious fact that it takes a lot of fucking work to get even basic macro mechanics in this game. Just the fundamental stuff where you're not floating 3k, 4k 10 minutes into the game. That's not trivial stuff, most people spend months getting there.
I never said that BW wasn't hard. That would obviously be absurd... I didn't think I would actually have to explicitly say that. It's certainly one of the hardest games out there to master.
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On June 29 2017 04:35 -Switch- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 04:28 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:17 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 04:09 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:02 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:54 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 03:50 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:02 ldv wrote:On June 28 2017 21:47 ROOTFayth wrote: if he was master level in SC2 he doesn't need to play vs a computer, mechanics in broodwar aren't much harder than in SC2, it's just more control groups but the pace is slower this is just incredibly untrue. Definitely not untrue. okay then show me all the SC2 master level players who come across with good mechanics. go ahead, i'll wait. Because there is such a huge sample of people swapping from SC2 to Broodwar who haven't played BW before? lol I don't think so. Maybe lets wait for remastered and we can judge this a bit better. I was a Grandmaster in sc2 and have been playing BW for a little over 2 weeks now. I can tell you a lot of the mechanics/skillsets transfer over and make you better at broodwar as well. No offense, but if you've been playing for a little over 2 weeks, you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player. The mechanics are too different, too much more involved in Brood War. I'm not being an elitist (I was an SC2 GM as well) it's just observable. I think most people just don't realize how high the mechanical skill ceiling is in Brood War. It's 50 stories high and even the best foreign brood war players don't get halfway there. Elitist detected. okay, well if you're going to be a child I guess there's no point in the discussion. "you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player." Why just call someone out when you have never seen them play? What rank are you on fish/iccup? Assuming you must be a pretty high level player.
In fairness, this isn't a callout.
It's more just like a "this doesn't happen" argument. It would be a little like hearing that Lance Armstrong is switch from cycling to running, and in two weeks he has the fitness for running under 3 hours in the marathon. Something like that happening would be unheard of, even for the insanely talented, it just takes a certain amount of time to reach that point.
I won't comment heavily on ldv's actual point as I don't have enough experience, having only played BW, to give a good assertion. I'm inclined to say Mekhami's perhaps a little overstated, a person with the right motivation and especially prior experience with a game like starcraft could probably achieve C- just a few weeks...but any case such as that would be a major outlier, that much is certain.
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On June 29 2017 03:27 GeckoXp wrote: Upload replays or you won't hear the end of it. People have a better idea how much they need to tell you to help you out with show cases of your game. This. At least I have no idea what master league translates to in terms of BW abilities.
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On June 29 2017 04:46 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 04:35 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 04:28 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:17 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 04:09 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:02 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:54 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 03:50 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:02 ldv wrote:On June 28 2017 21:47 ROOTFayth wrote: if he was master level in SC2 he doesn't need to play vs a computer, mechanics in broodwar aren't much harder than in SC2, it's just more control groups but the pace is slower this is just incredibly untrue. Definitely not untrue. okay then show me all the SC2 master level players who come across with good mechanics. go ahead, i'll wait. Because there is such a huge sample of people swapping from SC2 to Broodwar who haven't played BW before? lol I don't think so. Maybe lets wait for remastered and we can judge this a bit better. I was a Grandmaster in sc2 and have been playing BW for a little over 2 weeks now. I can tell you a lot of the mechanics/skillsets transfer over and make you better at broodwar as well. No offense, but if you've been playing for a little over 2 weeks, you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player. The mechanics are too different, too much more involved in Brood War. I'm not being an elitist (I was an SC2 GM as well) it's just observable. I think most people just don't realize how high the mechanical skill ceiling is in Brood War. It's 50 stories high and even the best foreign brood war players don't get halfway there. Elitist detected. okay, well if you're going to be a child I guess there's no point in the discussion. "you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player." Why just call someone out when you have never seen them play? What rank are you on fish/iccup? Assuming you must be a pretty high level player. In fairness, this isn't a callout. It's more just like a "this doesn't happen" argument. It would be a little like hearing that Lance Armstrong is switch from cycling to running, and in two weeks he has the fitness for running under 3 hours in the marathon. Something like that happening would be unheard of, even for the insanely talented, it just takes a certain amount of time to reach that point. I won't comment heavily ldv's actually point as I don't have enough experience, having only played BW, to give a good assertion. I'm inclined to say Mekhami's perhaps a little overstated, a person with the right motivation and especially prior experience with a game like starcraft could probably achieve C- just a few weeks...but any case such as that would be a major outlier, that much is certain.
So what a drew from this is I should enter the Tour de France.
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My experience watching sc2 masters / whatever players streaming brood war on twitch leads me to believe that those without prior bw experience have a lot of issues with macro and organization in bw. I have no idea what D+ skill looks right now but I'm willing to bet that D+ bw only players have different deficiencies than sc2 players that just switched.
Also some people are just going to pick BW up quick and it has nothing to do with their SC2 experience.
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On June 29 2017 04:59 CobaltBlu wrote: My experience watching sc2 masters / whatever players streaming brood war on twitch leads me to believe that those without prior bw experience have a lot of issues with macro and organization in bw. I have no idea what D+ skill looks right now but I'm willing to bet that D+ bw only players have different deficiencies than sc2 players that just switched.
Also some people are just going to pick BW up quick and it has nothing to do with their SC2 experience.
I think this is a fair assessment. However SC2 experience is not irrelevant.
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But yeah lets get OP a coach. This thread has been derailed.
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On June 29 2017 05:01 -Switch- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 04:59 CobaltBlu wrote: My experience watching sc2 masters / whatever players streaming brood war on twitch leads me to believe that those without prior bw experience have a lot of issues with macro and organization in bw. I have no idea what D+ skill looks right now but I'm willing to bet that D+ bw only players have different deficiencies than sc2 players that just switched.
Also some people are just going to pick BW up quick and it has nothing to do with their SC2 experience. I think this is a fair assessment. However SC2 experience is not irrelevant.
It's relevant. Hopefully nobody is crazy enough to try and argue that SC2 experience, especially at high level, isn't going to be beneficial when learning BW.
On June 29 2017 04:54 -Switch- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 04:46 L_Master wrote:On June 29 2017 04:35 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 04:28 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:17 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 04:09 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:02 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:54 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 03:50 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:02 ldv wrote: [quote]
this is just incredibly untrue. Definitely not untrue. okay then show me all the SC2 master level players who come across with good mechanics. go ahead, i'll wait. Because there is such a huge sample of people swapping from SC2 to Broodwar who haven't played BW before? lol I don't think so. Maybe lets wait for remastered and we can judge this a bit better. I was a Grandmaster in sc2 and have been playing BW for a little over 2 weeks now. I can tell you a lot of the mechanics/skillsets transfer over and make you better at broodwar as well. No offense, but if you've been playing for a little over 2 weeks, you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player. The mechanics are too different, too much more involved in Brood War. I'm not being an elitist (I was an SC2 GM as well) it's just observable. I think most people just don't realize how high the mechanical skill ceiling is in Brood War. It's 50 stories high and even the best foreign brood war players don't get halfway there. Elitist detected. okay, well if you're going to be a child I guess there's no point in the discussion. "you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player." Why just call someone out when you have never seen them play? What rank are you on fish/iccup? Assuming you must be a pretty high level player. In fairness, this isn't a callout. It's more just like a "this doesn't happen" argument. It would be a little like hearing that Lance Armstrong is switching from cycling to running, and in two weeks he has the fitness for running under 3 hours in the marathon. Something like that happening would be unheard of, even for the insanely talented, it just takes a certain amount of time to reach that point. I won't comment heavily on ldv's actual point as I don't have enough experience, having only played BW, to give a good assertion. I'm inclined to say Mekhami's point is perhaps a little overstated, a person with the right motivation and especially prior experience with a game like starcraft could probably achieve C- in just a few weeks...but any case such as that would be a major outlier, that much is certain. So what a drew from this is I should enter the Tour de France.
I mean sure...if you think that ldv's point is accurate, making you a true outlier; and if you think being an outlier in BW suggests being an outlier in cycling.
As for as I can tell though, you don't agree with either premise; so I'll go with the don't drop what you're doing and go all in for the Tour option.
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On June 29 2017 05:17 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 05:01 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 04:59 CobaltBlu wrote: My experience watching sc2 masters / whatever players streaming brood war on twitch leads me to believe that those without prior bw experience have a lot of issues with macro and organization in bw. I have no idea what D+ skill looks right now but I'm willing to bet that D+ bw only players have different deficiencies than sc2 players that just switched.
Also some people are just going to pick BW up quick and it has nothing to do with their SC2 experience. I think this is a fair assessment. However SC2 experience is not irrelevant. It's relevant. Hopefully nobody is crazy enough to try and argue that SC2 experience, especially at high level, isn't going to be beneficial when learning BW. Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 04:54 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 04:46 L_Master wrote:On June 29 2017 04:35 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 04:28 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:17 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 04:09 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 04:02 -Switch- wrote:On June 29 2017 03:54 ldv wrote:On June 29 2017 03:50 -Switch- wrote: [quote]
Definitely not untrue. okay then show me all the SC2 master level players who come across with good mechanics. go ahead, i'll wait. Because there is such a huge sample of people swapping from SC2 to Broodwar who haven't played BW before? lol I don't think so. Maybe lets wait for remastered and we can judge this a bit better. I was a Grandmaster in sc2 and have been playing BW for a little over 2 weeks now. I can tell you a lot of the mechanics/skillsets transfer over and make you better at broodwar as well. No offense, but if you've been playing for a little over 2 weeks, you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player. The mechanics are too different, too much more involved in Brood War. I'm not being an elitist (I was an SC2 GM as well) it's just observable. I think most people just don't realize how high the mechanical skill ceiling is in Brood War. It's 50 stories high and even the best foreign brood war players don't get halfway there. Elitist detected. okay, well if you're going to be a child I guess there's no point in the discussion. "you probably don't even have the mechanics of a D+ iccup player." Why just call someone out when you have never seen them play? What rank are you on fish/iccup? Assuming you must be a pretty high level player. In fairness, this isn't a callout. It's more just like a "this doesn't happen" argument. It would be a little like hearing that Lance Armstrong is switching from cycling to running, and in two weeks he has the fitness for running under 3 hours in the marathon. Something like that happening would be unheard of, even for the insanely talented, it just takes a certain amount of time to reach that point. I won't comment heavily on ldv's actual point as I don't have enough experience, having only played BW, to give a good assertion. I'm inclined to say Mekhami's point is perhaps a little overstated, a person with the right motivation and especially prior experience with a game like starcraft could probably achieve C- in just a few weeks...but any case such as that would be a major outlier, that much is certain. So what a drew from this is I should enter the Tour de France. I mean sure...if you think that ldv's point is accurate, making you a true outlier; and if you think being an outlier in BW suggests being an outlier in cycling. As for as I can tell though, you don't agree with either premise; so I'll go with the don't drop what you're doing and go all in for the Tour option.
I just ordered my bike.... Hope they have a good refund policy I agree with the first premise. not the second since I would have no desire to cycle... Other sports perhaps.
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everyone thinks themselves an outlier. in reality, they just overestimate their abilities.
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Can't you just watch the person play before judging how good they are? Gosh
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On June 29 2017 05:35 ldv wrote: everyone thinks themselves an outlier. in reality, they just overestimate their abilities.
lol. Also you never said what rank you were?
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I went from having 170 apm in BW (pre SC2) to 300apm post SC2, my BW mechanics got much better
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I am the best coach in all of history. Just ignore all prior comments and message me.
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On June 28 2017 21:47 ROOTFayth wrote: if he was master level in SC2 he doesn't need to play vs a computer, mechanics in broodwar aren't much harder than in SC2, it's just more control groups but the pace is slower I was master league in SC2, but I still had to practice builds in BW. I even played BW before SC2 - the meta has changed so all the builds are slightly different.
Master league is not that hard, I had to try much harder to reach C in BW than Master league in SC2 in LotV.
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On June 29 2017 06:17 TT1 wrote:I went from having 170 apm in BW (pre SC2) to 300apm post SC2, my BW mechanics got much better
Sure that isn't from your newfound coke habit?
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On June 29 2017 06:57 SCC-Faust wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 06:17 TT1 wrote:I went from having 170 apm in BW (pre SC2) to 300apm post SC2, my BW mechanics got much better Sure that isn't from your newfound coke habit?
it cant be i only drink coke zero :3
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Bisutopia19043 Posts
On June 29 2017 06:17 TT1 wrote:I went from having 170 apm in BW (pre SC2) to 300apm post SC2, my BW mechanics got much better Agreed, i improved after playing SC2 also. The similar mechanics but different gameplay helped me out. Im terrible at SC but i can keep my bank under 1k on 4 bases. :D
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