Should education be free? - Page 2
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Do not derail the thread with discussions about other topics like global warming. | ||
ScrubS
Netherlands436 Posts
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Lennoxito
Lithuania12 Posts
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Spieltor
327 Posts
On March 13 2012 15:42 Datz2Ez wrote: Hi fellow members, Let's start first to give you the context of my thread I live in montreal, quebec, Canada. We live in a society that was founded mostly with left politic. Our health system is free and our education fees are low. At the moment, we pay around 1075$/semester (+/- 2000$/year) to go to university. Even if the fees our low, the average student end university with +/- 15 000 in dept. Our governement wants us to now pay 1600$/year more. In other terms, they are asking the students to double the dept they end with Students are now on strike and asking the governement to cancel the raise. You have to be aware that this only represent 1.2% of the global education budget so we are not talking about a huge sum. Where do I stand? To be honest, I always tought everyone should have equal access to education. The best way would be to make it free. I think we should favor more an 'elitism' way of choosing the students by looking more into the grades. I will not get into the details and argue on both side but I was really interrested to see what people all over think about education. P.S. This is no democrat vs republicans Forgive my poor english it is not my first language. Education can be free. Public libraries do, in fact, exist. If you want education in anything, ANYTHING, there's always ways to get it. I feel like universities should have a visitor/library policy though, but disallow books to be checked out, and they have to give up the book to students studying material relevant to their course or something. But that would take a stronger sense of community and a rebirth of social etiquette to acquire without security guards. Part of the reason you pay for education is to ensure you have access to the highest quality material on your timetable. http://www.khanacademy.org/ Here's some good free education. you can learn how gravity and force relate to mass and density and thus why black holes have such huge gravitational pull. the lesson itself can be generalized so a person understands the relationships of all bodies of mass in space and it can paint a pretty good picture of how the universe works on a macroscopic scale. Just for instance. Honestly, unless you work really hard to make your education count so that you are a sure hire in the future, you're better off not getting into debt and working a job while doing studies at libraries on your own time until you can afford college. you also would have plenty of time to decide what you really want as an end goal with your education/career path. | ||
Minzy
Australia387 Posts
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Craton
United States17153 Posts
That said, slow rising still has a number of issues, much of which are evidenced in the US where tuition costs have slowly but steadily grown, but ultimately reached a fairly absurd current rate. Without a scholarship my school would've run me nearly $110,000. This issue isn't free vs not free so much as it is about being affordable and accessible. On March 13 2012 16:04 Minzy wrote: its abit of both in australia, can take a 'loan' of sorts from the government which we call HECS, and they take care of it, and you will pay it back in taxes when u earn over 30 grand a year. you can also choose to pay, so its a choice, essentially anyone can go to university. Not sure what Canada has, but the US has student loans. They're pretty horrendous, though. You can google for lots of abuse cases regarding them. | ||
Lobotomist
United States1541 Posts
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Craton
United States17153 Posts
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Datz2Ez
Canada76 Posts
On March 13 2012 16:01 Ercster wrote: I'm cool with the theoretical American version of public schooling. This is were your taxes pay for the public education system, only k-12, though (I would want it to go through to the public colleges as well). And private schooling requires the individual to pay for their education. The current problem America has is that the government keeps spending money poorly, and education is suffering because of it. On to an unrelated problem I have with the education process in America. In k-8, you learn the basic knowledge of important subjects such as math, english, and science. And in 9-12, it gets more advanced with those subjects, and you get a variety of other classes which help you determine what you want to major in when you attend college. However, when you attend college, you have to do the same thing as you did in 9-12. I'm majoring in engineering, yet one of the english requirements has to deal with poetry. This serves no purpose for me. I don't see the need for poetry, and 10 engineers that I've spoken with have never used poetry in their entire career, yet I'm still required to take it. These useless classes are a waste of not only my money, but my time. Another problem I have is with homework. Homework, in its literal form, is practice. Why is it required that I practice? Teachers have agreed with me on this point, yet they still tell me I needed to do it. We go to school to learn, and are graded by how well we retained that knowledge. So, if I choose not to practice, yet am capable of retaining all of the information that was given, I shouldn't be punished. Well I think that poetry is part of culture. I think that 6-12 grade are there to help you see what you like/dislike. So yeah all engineer hate poetry and love mats... but what about that english teacher... maybe that poetry class was the one that started everything. | ||
Datz2Ez
Canada76 Posts
On March 13 2012 16:05 Lobotomist wrote: Free? Currently I don't think it makes sense for a college level education to be free. Some people don't want/need/care to go to college. By subsidizing college education, people that wouldn't go now will end up going which brings the overall level and worth of the education down. If people who don't want/need/care to go DO end up going, I would argue that they won't get much value out of it, while putting a burden on taxpayers and other college students. We are talking about university and post-secondary school. | ||
chrisolo
Germany2604 Posts
I find this is a really good way to deal with it, since it allows kids with migration background to study if they are willing, since they are paying for their education "themselves" (as future me^^). | ||
iyoume
2501 Posts
On March 13 2012 15:42 Datz2Ez wrote: At the moment, we pay around 1075$/semester (+/- 2000$/year) to go to university. Even if the fees our low, the average student end university with +/- 15 000 in dept. now i'm sad. wish my university had been that cheap. paid like 30x that | ||
sunprince
United States2258 Posts
Education can't be free. What's really being asked is: "Should education be subsidized by taxpayers?" | ||
BenBuford
Denmark307 Posts
On March 13 2012 15:48 tetrismaan wrote: In Denmark it is free, and we even get 1000$ each month from the government, with the chance of making a student-rent for 650$ each month with 1% interest. Yep, it's pretty sweet. I think you meant student-loan though. I spent 6 years of my life getting my free education(s), and never having to work on the side, and my parents never paid any kroner (it's a real currency, stupid as it may sound ). It really let's you focus on studying. Now, I have a degree and a full time job, and have no problem paying my ~40% tax cut (~50% if you add all sorts of union fees/workers associations fees etc.). I got a lot from society in my twenties, and now I have the opportunity to give something back, while maintaining a decent living (annual income ~60k $). Yeah, "socialism" is torture . | ||
Ercster
United States603 Posts
On March 13 2012 16:07 Datz2Ez wrote: Well I think that poetry is part of culture. I think that 6-12 grade are there to help you see what you like/dislike. So yeah all engineer hate poetry and love mats... but what about that english teacher... maybe that poetry class was the one that started everything. I'm for more practical knowledge rather than general knowledge, at least in terms of higher education. So, If someone is going to be an english teacher or a writer, then yes, that person takes poetry. But, if that person is going in business or mathematics, then no, that person takes a formal/business writing class. | ||
anycolourfloyd
Australia524 Posts
On March 13 2012 16:04 Minzy wrote: its abit of both in australia, can take a 'loan' of sorts from the government which we call HECS, and they take care of it, and you will pay it back in taxes when u earn over 30 grand a year. you can also choose to pay, so its a choice, essentially anyone can go to university. if you're an aussie citizen anyway. i was amazed to hear recently that education is australia's third or fourth biggest export.. international students get reamed for the big bucks | ||
Mysticesper
United States1183 Posts
I think a lot of people decide to go to "top" & out of state universities, when in many cases, it isn't necessary unless you really are doing cutting edge stuff (which probably means you have a scholarship). Getting your run of the mill liberal arts / social sciences degrees (the easy BS degrees just to get one) really don't amount to a whole lot, and it isn't worth going to an out of state or private college just to pay upwards of 3 times as much. I heard something somewhere, but if you are spending more per year on your school than you see yourself earning when you finish school, it isn't a worthwhile investment. | ||
Zergmeister
Denmark56 Posts
How can you even suggest to deny humans from education, simply because they have fewer resources than you? by that logic, no 3rd world humans would EVER recive any edjucation, neither would orphans, or poor people. It completely boggles my mind, that we still live in a world, where free education isn't a basic human right. BTW. Here in Denmark, you get paid as a student to educate yourself beyond primary school. | ||
BluePanther
United States2776 Posts
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Ercster
United States603 Posts
On March 13 2012 16:13 BluePanther wrote: I pay nearly 40k a year to attend school. You must have it so bad... I have to ask, where are you going to school, and what are you majoring in? | ||
SpaceFighting
New Zealand690 Posts
who wants a student loan? i dont.. ill be around 50k (nzd) in debt by the time im finished with my uni (first year right now) its pretty ass =[ | ||
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