Staten Island Resident Eric Garner Dies after Chokehold fr…
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LambtrOn
United States671 Posts
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NNLBboy
United States67 Posts
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Saryph
United States1955 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32008 Posts
On December 04 2014 10:10 Ace wrote: Oh there is a lot of anger over this. It just doesn't seem to be Mike Brown levels yet outside of NYC. I don't understand why Mike Brown's case got more traction than this. Brown's case had extremely limited evidence that pointed towards the cop's story being accurate, and there were many witnesses that outright lied. It very clearly would have gone no where in court, not because he is a cop, but because the case was built on nothing. I'm still not sure if it was right to pass on indicting him, but I think for certain it was going no where. I don't really get how this did not result in an indictment since that move was specifically banned by the NYPD. That alone does not make it a crime, but definitely something he will absolutely get canned and sued for. However, the fact that it was banned specifically because it carries a high risk of hurtung/killing some, he used it, and it resulted in the death of a suspect, I would think that should have at least gone to court to see if he was criminally negligent. | ||
m4ini
4215 Posts
That alone does not make it a crime, but definitely something he will absolutely get canned and sued for. In my book, what he did pretty much fits the definition of a crime. Somebody used a banned technique, known to inflict serious damage/death. That by itself is a crime. Just because it was done by some fuckhead from the police, doesn't mean it's not assault. But as i said in one of the other threads about policecrime(..), the US law/justice system is a fricking joke, especially in regards to punish servants of the government. In no other developed country in the world would he just walk as if nothing happened. As a cop, i'd feel pretty good right now, knowing that i basically have to execute somebody on the open street, him kneeing and me shooting the back of his head point blank right after i shout "because i can, fucker" to actually be punished. I honestly don't even remotely understand how people can even complain that the police is so corrupt/violent, that problem didn't just come up, it's made by "decisions" like this. If you don't have to fear punishment even for clear crimes (as this one), what's there to fear? | ||
killa_robot
Canada1884 Posts
On December 04 2014 12:51 QuanticHawk wrote: I don't understand why Mike Brown's case got more traction than this. Brown's case had extremely limited evidence that pointed towards the cop's story being accurate, and there were many witnesses that outright lied. It very clearly would have gone no where in court, not because he is a cop, but because the case was built on nothing. I'm still not sure if it was right to pass on indicting him, but I think for certain it was going no where. I don't really get how this did not result in an indictment since that move was specifically banned by the NYPD. That alone does not make it a crime, but definitely something he will absolutely get canned and sued for. However, the fact that it was banned specifically because it carries a high risk of hurtung/killing some, he used it, and it resulted in the death of a suspect, I would think that should have at least gone to court to see if he was criminally negligent. The media + that one group who went public with Michael Brown's family is probably the reason there is such a different reaction. And I don't think obama commented on this case (until after), while he made the terrible claim that if he had a son, he'd look like brown. That and, you know, people tend to be morons. They just jump on whatever is most popular at the time. | ||
Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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ZapRoffo
United States5544 Posts
"In America, if you fraudulently sell cigarettes the cops will literally kill you but if you fraudulently sell mortgages you will get a bonus" | ||
Foblos
United States426 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States21792 Posts
On December 04 2014 13:35 Foblos wrote: Can we start demanding our state lawmakers force into law the demand that if a cop kills someone they need to be tried like any other criminal? This is getting out of hand. Getting? It's just "getting" caught on camera now. | ||
Foblos
United States426 Posts
On December 04 2014 13:52 GreenHorizons wrote: Getting? It's just "getting" caught on camera now. It's been (getting) out of hand for quite some time. But yes, it is becoming a lot more public now. | ||
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On December 04 2014 10:33 Rho_ wrote: Apparently polls showed only 41% of Staten Island residents supported charges against the officer. http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/eric-garner-chokehold-staten-island-grand-jury-indict/ Guess that's why no charges... staten island is a suburb. saw some protests in downtown brooklyn it will probably be bigger tomorrow. ' On December 04 2014 13:28 Nyxisto wrote: The Michael Brown case escalated because this is not about single cases, it's systemic. That African-Americans get killed by self-proclaimed neighborhood militias or during ridiculous police encounters now seems to be a weekly occurrence. Institutional racism only ended in the 60's and I feel that the US has never re-evaluated their history properly. This is especially awful because if this doesn't happen under the 8 year presidency of an African-American civil rights lawyer I wonder if it will happen at all. obama is a constitutional lawyer. his activism stuff doesn't seem very genuine right now. | ||
OuchyDathurts
United States4588 Posts
On December 04 2014 13:35 Foblos wrote: Can we start demanding our state lawmakers force into law the demand that if a cop kills someone they need to be tried like any other criminal? This is getting out of hand. There is a push in Minneapolis to force all cops to carry insurance like a doctor or contractor. The city pays the base rate, as the cop screws up their insurance rate goes up, they have to pay out of pocket and become uninsurable so they're out of a job. A potential step in the right direction. IMO body cams should be required that can't be turned off, uploaded online so people can view them at will. | ||
killa_robot
Canada1884 Posts
On December 04 2014 14:15 OuchyDathurts wrote: There is a push in Minneapolis to force all cops to carry insurance like a doctor or contractor. The city pays the base rate, as the cop screws up their insurance rate goes up, they have to pay out of pocket and become uninsurable so they're out of a job. A potential step in the right direction. IMO body cams should be required that can't be turned off, uploaded online so people can view them at will. No. Just no. That's a terrible idea. Why would we give criminals open access to the routines of cops? Get the body cams, record everything, then store it all for ~a month (or less if needed). If there's an issue brought up, relocate the videos for the cops in question on the relevant days to a more permanent server to be reviewed and catalogued as evidence. Otherwise no one reviews the videos (would take way too fucking long anyway), and they're deleted if not needed after a set amount of time. It's the best mix between being reasonably priced and effective imo. The cops deserve some privacy too. Having what I did on file for review is one thing, having my every moved observed and judged is something else entirely. We still need people to want to be cops, and it's a bad enough job as is. | ||
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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OuchyDathurts
United States4588 Posts
On December 04 2014 14:31 killa_robot wrote: No. Just no. That's a terrible idea. Why would we give criminals open access to the routines of cops? Get the body cams, record everything, then store it all for ~a month (or less if needed). If there's an issue brought up, relocate the videos for the cops in question on the relevant days to a more permanent server to be reviewed and catalogued as evidence. Otherwise no one reviews the videos (would take way too fucking long anyway), and they're deleted if not needed after a set amount of time. It's the best mix between being reasonably priced and effective imo. The cops deserve some privacy too. Having what I did on file for review is one thing, having my every moved observed and judged is something else entirely. We still need people to want to be cops, and it's a bad enough job as is. Public servants, driving cars, carrying guns, and collecting paychecks from the people. I think I'm well within my rights to see what they're up to since they do a piss poor job of policing themselves. No BS with turning off your camera when you want to break the law. No sudden disappearing or malfunctioning of equipment. The raw video should be made available to the public. We have too many cops as is. I can listen to basically any police scanner I want to online already. They should be scared to be held accountable, they wield a ton of power, way more power than they should. Its time the people had a check to that power. | ||
darthfoley
United States7999 Posts
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On December 04 2014 14:15 OuchyDathurts wrote: There is a push in Minneapolis to force all cops to carry insurance like a doctor or contractor. The city pays the base rate, as the cop screws up their insurance rate goes up, they have to pay out of pocket and become uninsurable so they're out of a job. A potential step in the right direction. IMO body cams should be required that can't be turned off, uploaded online so people can view them at will. Minneapolis is also doing body cams soon. | ||
OuchyDathurts
United States4588 Posts
On December 04 2014 14:49 Stratos_speAr wrote: Minneapolis is also doing body cams soon. Which is why the cops were butthurt and claiming the mayor was "flashing gang signs" by pointing at a guy. Body cams that are under the control of the officer are the tiniest of baby steps though. | ||
Foblos
United States426 Posts
On December 04 2014 14:47 OuchyDathurts wrote: Public servants, driving cars, carrying guns, and collecting paychecks from the people. I think I'm well within my rights to see what they're up to since they do a piss poor job of policing themselves. No BS with turning off your camera when you want to break the law. No sudden disappearing or malfunctioning of equipment. The raw video should be made available to the public. We have too many cops as is. I can listen to basically any police scanner I want to online already. They should be scared to be held accountable, they wield a ton of power, way more power than they should. Its time the people had a check to that power. I think that there is a degree to fairness in both your points. The guy above you is right that we don't need to start sending helicopters to make sure the helicopters are doing their job right, but at the same time you're right that they are essentially on our payroll, and are dangerous, and we should have the right to personal inquiry. I would be happy if they were treated like a lot of other official doccuments, where they are archived for fifty years or so and citizens can petition to view the records. That protects the PERSON behind the badge from having their entire life continually exposed like a cam girl while at the same time ensuring transparency and making it really difficult for cops to get away with stuff. Also, I agree with the non-offable body cams. | ||
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