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On May 01 2015 01:25 Grumbels wrote: What's the point of doing that if reapers are an early game unit only? Well that's the point, with this they might not be just early game units anymore.
I was just watching fenner's stream and he played against Beastyqt. Beasty wasn't using more than initial 3 Reapers, but when they use their grenades and when they push units back that animation lasts for 1-2 seconds which gives Terran time to deal a lot of damage with Tanks/Marines/whatever.
I don't know, having 5-6 Reapers in the mid game doesn't take much from your army and can do wonders in those Zergling, Baneling, Mutalisk engagements with your army, or when a ton of Zealots are charging towards you, especially good because you knocked them back and they've wasted their charge. You can even spread your Marines with these grenades in some situations against Banelings but don't really know how effective that will be.
These grenades needs to be tested a lot, but I really like the idea.
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Haven't seen the replays but it seems like it would be pretty easy to scout. Don't you think it's just because the zergs don't know how to react? A few spines and some roaches would surely shut this down?
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Sweden33719 Posts
YES FINALLY
UNIT GLITCHING IN SC2!!!!!!
Bring back the old days of 9 o clock Lost Temple where you could force your probe through the wall-in with a pylon.
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On May 01 2015 10:59 Huxii wrote: Haven't seen the replays but it seems like it would be pretty easy to scout. Don't you think it's just because the zergs don't know how to react? A few spines and some roaches would surely shut this down? did you even read the thread? he addressed roaches in like the first paragraph. you are aware iaguz is a progamer right?
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On May 01 2015 10:30 Ramiz1989 wrote: These grenades needs to be tested a lot, but I really like the idea.
I wouldn't mind them and might actually like them if they are done well, but there is way too many spells in the game now for a RTS game. This isn't a MOBA.
And if the spell usage matter more than strategy, then we have a real problem. And from what saw in WCS with Ravens vs well positioned Sieged Tanks, we are there.
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On May 01 2015 12:53 Liquid`Jinro wrote:YES FINALLY UNIT GLITCHING IN SC2!!!!!! Bring back the old days of 9 o clock Lost Temple where you could force your probe through the wall-in with a pylon. Haha, I still remember vividly escaping from a Terran wall-in at 6 o'clock with that glitch; my Probe was chased by a Marine, and just before it died the Pylon propelled it outwards. I showed it to my friend and now, when we witness a SC2 Probe living more than 15 seconds against the smooth SC2 Zerglings, we say “look, The Probe came back”. I also remember a hilarious Dragoon pogo near the cliff at 9 o'clock LT from some brown (?) Protoss, resulting in Dragoons actually cliffwalking down in a confused sea of mechanic limbs. Back then, this was the first time we were witnessing that. Some Pimpest Play for sure! But all of that is gone with the great wind of “modernity”.
+ Show Spoiler +
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The new grenades are pretty good, someone 2 rax reapered me in ZvT, it's pretty easy to hold (not sure he was the strongest of players) One thing that gets me is the nades bug the drones out if the jump into the space of where a building/object is and stops them from mining until you manually click on them not that I'm complaining.
I quite like the grenade just needs some mild tweaks.
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On May 01 2015 13:05 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2015 10:30 Ramiz1989 wrote: These grenades needs to be tested a lot, but I really like the idea.
I wouldn't mind them and might actually like them if they are done well, but there is way too many spells in the game now for a RTS game. This isn't a MOBA. And if the spell usage matter more than strategy, then we have a real problem. And from what saw in WCS with Ravens vs well positioned Sieged Tanks, we are there.
Honestly BW had a shit ton of spells as well. People are overreacting.
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I have faced a reaper build, but i was very fine as I do a 14/14 speedling expand. The big problem is more there is not real meta, so nobody really knows what the standard build you must use in the MU a fortiori when new patch comes, should you drone scout, should you build a safe opener with the ability to defend while punishing a creedy opening, should you play creedy and you'r OK vs cheese ?
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BW had a lot of spells it's just that they were shit and you almost never saw them. The game was so difficult to play mechanically that it wouldn't have been worth it trying to mix in some of these abilities so I guess we just sort of regarded them as amusing extras. Once in a blue moon someone would use Disruption web or Optical flare or lockdown and holy fucking shit that's incredible, but we knew that the game functioned absolutely fine even though it has so much pointless shit in it.
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On May 01 2015 22:42 ROOTiaguz wrote: BW had a lot of spells it's just that they were shit and you almost never saw them. The game was so difficult to play mechanically that it wouldn't have been worth it trying to mix in some of these abilities so I guess we just sort of regarded them as amusing extras. Once in a blue moon someone would use Disruption web or Optical flare or lockdown and holy fucking shit that's incredible, but we knew that the game functioned absolutely fine even though it has so much pointless shit in it. Imagine if due to an accident of balance, people would use all those spells frequently and then later it'd constantly be cited as a key feature of Brood War's greatness. We'd be having a different conversation today than the current one concerning the dreaded mobafication(tm) of the game. :p
Honestly most spells work well in Brood War even if you don't see them much. I think that even forcefield would be intriguing in that game as a Dark Archon spell, maybe with higher energy cost and the inability to block perfectly. The issue with Starcraft 2 is that Blizzard didn't realize how much of an impact changing the pathfinding and introducing smartcast would have, so they never adequately compensated by adjusting spell design. Imo, objectively creating interesting spells is harder for SC2, therefore it requires more thought put into the design which was unfortunately lacking.
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first build im gonna go with once I fire up that beta baby!
thx Ethan
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On May 02 2015 00:05 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: first build im gonna go with once I fire up that beta baby!
thx Ethan The thought I have all the time when starting SC2, until I realize that there is still no select matchup option and having a useful build order traning enviroment is still a fairy tail.
there is still no select matchup option there is still no select matchup option there is still no select matchup option there is still no select matchup option there is still no select matchup option
Most important change for Starcraft is still a dream.
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On May 02 2015 00:19 Barrin wrote:+ Show Spoiler +According to http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Spells there are 24 spells in BW. According to http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Spells there are 34 spells in SC2. Protoss has 3 more, Zerg has 4 more, and Terran has 3 more in SC2 than in BW. And the SC2 page hasn't been updated with any of the Oracle's 3 spells, Medivac's Afterburners, Swarm Hosts' Spawn Locusts, or Viper's Consume. Furthermore, new LotV unit spells/abilities are not counted: Immortal's new activated shield, Reaper's new grenade, Tempest's new damage over time, Carrier's new interceptor release, Battlecruiser's new warp jump, Ravager's corrosive bile, Cyclone's target lock, Adept's shadow, and Disruptor's explosion. So we're at 24 spells/abilities in BW to SC2's 49. SC2 about has twice as many spells/abilities as BW.To be fair, BW Recall ~= SC2 RecallBW Psionic Storm ~= SC2 Psionic StormBW Hallucinate ~= SC2 HallucinateBW Yamato ~= SC2 YamatoBW Cloak ~= SC2 CloakBW EMP ~= SC2 EMPCorsair's Disruption Web ~= Viper's Blinding CloudDark Archon's Feedback ~= High Templar's FeedbackDefiler's Plague & Queen's Ensare ~= Infestor's Fungal Growth & Mothership's Time WarpDefiler's Consume ~= Viper's ConsumeQueen's Parasite ~= Oracle's RevelationDark Archon's Mind Control ~= Infestor's Neural ParasiteMedic Heal ~= Medivac's Heal(~= means "about equal") And sure SC2 has a lot more spells, but are there any SC2 spells not bolded above as strong as BW's Stasis Field, Maelstrom, Dark Swarm, Spawn Broodling, Lockdown, Defensive Matrix, or Irradiate? Some data for you.
On April 11 2015 06:39 TheDwf wrote:The SC2 designers had probably little idea about what they were doing when they forsook the “mechanical barriers” from SC1. Now it takes 3 times the effort to even think about vaguely viable stuff because “smartcasting” threatens to make every spell over-efficient, the pathing engine makes army stacking explosive, the unlimited unit selection makes it extremely easy to maneuver and capitalize on advantages, etc. Thus quality of design has to fully compensate for every single of those aspects. This is not undoable by any mean, but it's hellishly hard. As you sow, so shall you reap. Any decrease in the “mechanical difficulty” department has to be compensated somewhere in strategic complexity, otherwise it's far too trivial to put the “Knowledge” aspect into actions to reach victory. But as people would realize over years, strategy is intimely connected with mechanics. (...) The original pact of SC2 was “less burdensome mechanics, more exciting action”. But kicked out through the doorway, mechanics do come back through the window. (...) Unfortunately, the Blizzsters were heavy-handed, and the intrusive creationist approach is a huge problem in SC2. This is directly correlated to the original philosophy of the “holy esport mantra”. As a result, the SC2 crew is trying too hard. They need to relax, really. More control for the player = less control from the designer. This does not mean less work; this means working better. The main problem with many SC2 creations is that they come with attached, internal “directions for use”. But the instruction manual cannot be a 800 pages treaty, nor should it be excessively incorporated into the unit itself. (...) http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/830777MOBAfy3.jpg(...) There are different temporalities within the game which have to be carefully calibrated to ensure the survival of control and, ultimately, sense. The quality of the game flows from its “control architecture”. But its identity too. It's always the same thing. Nature abhors a vacuum.
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On May 01 2015 22:10 iKill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2015 13:05 BronzeKnee wrote:On May 01 2015 10:30 Ramiz1989 wrote: These grenades needs to be tested a lot, but I really like the idea.
I wouldn't mind them and might actually like them if they are done well, but there is way too many spells in the game now for a RTS game. This isn't a MOBA. And if the spell usage matter more than strategy, then we have a real problem. And from what saw in WCS with Ravens vs well positioned Sieged Tanks, we are there. Honestly BW had a shit ton of spells as well. People are overreacting.
-that were mid to late game and some rarely used, you forgot to add.
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On May 01 2015 13:05 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2015 10:30 Ramiz1989 wrote: These grenades needs to be tested a lot, but I really like the idea.
I wouldn't mind them and might actually like them if they are done well, but there is way too many spells in the game now for a RTS game. This isn't a MOBA. And if the spell usage matter more than strategy, then we have a real problem. And from what saw in WCS with Ravens vs well positioned Sieged Tanks, we are there.
DUDE. Please stop with the "isn't a Moba" shit.
It's not like they took out the rest of the game, ya know the macro? As well as controlling the map, battling for position and recources. It's very much still an RTS. God what a dumb fuck statement.
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On May 02 2015 00:40 TronJovolta wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2015 13:05 BronzeKnee wrote:On May 01 2015 10:30 Ramiz1989 wrote: These grenades needs to be tested a lot, but I really like the idea.
I wouldn't mind them and might actually like them if they are done well, but there is way too many spells in the game now for a RTS game. This isn't a MOBA. And if the spell usage matter more than strategy, then we have a real problem. And from what saw in WCS with Ravens vs well positioned Sieged Tanks, we are there. DUDE. Please stop with the "isn't a Moba" shit. It's not like they took out the rest of the game, ya know the macro? As well as controlling the map, battling for position and recources. It's very much still an RTS. God what a dumb fuck statement.
His talking in terms of micro.
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