38 +1 Speedling push vZ vP = Evil Strike Build - Page 3
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LoneWolf.Alpha
United States115 Posts
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
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Nyast
Belgium554 Posts
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GTo7_Panda
Germany68 Posts
Overall I find it great that you guys think about the build and evolve it further:D Adressing the people who suggest P to do something that requieres early gas, such as Archons, DT´s or air. I don´t think this is viable, because you really need sentries to deffend at least 2-3. IMO forge expand is the best defense If you are on EU and Protoss dia+, I offer you too play against me and try out different things . Regards | ||
.kv
United States2332 Posts
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Freeekmeout
South Africa26 Posts
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
On May 17 2011 19:00 Acritter wrote: So wouldn't the Protoss see that you're not expanding and prepare to defend an all-in (get Sentries and open up a 4gate)? I can't see this working if it's scouted, because you're going to have a HUGE worker deficit, a late expansion, and slow Lair tech moving into the midgame. Protoss can easily fight it off, push into an expansion, and then transition into a nice little deathball. I especially can't see how this will avoid losing to air tech immediately (provided the Protoss lays down FFs correctly). You just won't have the Queens to defend your expansion and will lose your main shortly after. Yea, that's what I was thinking. I don't see the incentive for Protoss to expand if he sees Zerg one basing and making 38 speedlings before starting his natural. You can stay on your ramp and endless forcefield with 6 sentries, and begin a sim city + expansion shortly after. | ||
zende
Sweden234 Posts
gj nonetheless, will probably be used lots on the ladder now! | ||
JohnnyReverb
Switzerland132 Posts
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EZmark
Canada31 Posts
vP it could be decent against a FE or even a 4 gate since +1 lings rip apart gateway units but on most maps the sentries and zealots should clean this up. might work against a FFE but if it doesnt you are light years behind eco wise and stargate / de expands will clean this up without a problem and take early game map control. my 2 cents im 900 + masters right now | ||
cyrusdm
Canada55 Posts
On May 17 2011 05:10 GTo7_Panda wrote: Update: Replays are up. The BO´s name is: Panda´s evil strike. Kekeke^^ This is a BO that beats most of protoss openings and most of hatch first zerg openings, and is very fun to play. You will have 15 drones, one queen, +1 attack, speed and 38 Lings at 6:11. (+ A ton of minerals. You can expand right when you attack.) Also, it has a big giveaway. To introduce myself, I am Panda from GTo7, currently rank 3 Dia with 860 points, 50ish bonus pool and 61 wins. This build is not theorycrafting, it was crafted with zerglingblood, if I am allowed to say so. The build is great for lower league play and a good cheese/semiallin for higher leagues, if 6pool is to easy for you:D That being said, there is one certain build from Z that´s auto-loss for you, and a competent Protoss will defend your push, gaining small advantage. With competent I mean high dia, that´s the point where Protoss start to utilize their forcefields the right way. Be warned, I am mixing up vP and vZ often, because this build is good for both Matchups. The fundamentals of this build: + Show Spoiler + 1. +1 Speedlings are awesome in the early game 2. Most Protoss and Zerg consider early banelings when they scout early pool + early gas – some Protoss players will even leave your base, just having scouted your 11 pool. 3. Your opponement needs a strong army early... If he chooses to expand early or to tech something crazy, he lost in 80% of the cases. 4. There are two things that hardcounter this build, one per Matchup: Banelings and Forge Expand. 5. Banelings → You loose. Type GG, smile and try to find out if standard play is really that bad 6. Forge Expand → If there is one cannon, you can go for the kill. You have chances. If the Protoss is competent, like high-dia, he will forcefield his buildings and fend of your attack. If there are two cannons: No way, that is too much. Just draw back and try to make the best of the situation... Possible transitions: See below. 7. Don´t waste your army. If the Toss is to mighty, draw back. He shouldn´t move out, 38 +1 Speedlings are a nice army. Drones, drones, drones. And then, fast!, army. The Toss will push, they always do. 8. The Evochamber is a sure giveaway. The BO: + Show Spoiler + 10 Extractor Trick 11 Overlord 11 Spawning Pool 12 Extractor 14 Move Drone To Gas 14 Move Drone To Gas 14 Move Drone To Gas 14 Queen 16 Evolution Chamber 18 Melee Attacks 1 18 Overlord 18 Spawn Larvae 18 Overlord 18 Zergling 19 Zergling 20 Metabolic Boost From there on, build Zerglings. Don´t forget to build the Overlord at 23 supply! Also, scout with your lings. When to use?: + Show Spoiler + In lower leagues you can do it against any toss, I would guess. In higher leagues you can do it when any of this options are fulfilled: Either: You play on a big map. Toss will likely go on a expand build, Zerg very very often too. With big map I mean Tel`Darim Altar for example. Or/and: You know your opponent will do a 15 hatch. Since 15 Hatch is a viable build, many will do it as standard and won´t change their BO in a BOx, x > 1. This is tricky, since you could also do early banelings and your opponent has to prepare for it. Also, it´s logic on which maps you don´t want to do this build. Example: You play on a small map against Z. He will maybe go 14/14, and that´s auto-loose. Meta for example is a small map. I have so much minerals left, what to do? AKA Transition + Show Spoiler + Well, you can expand right when your attack starts. Start getting queens and hatches. Also get many drones, since you have mineraIs and larva. When you didn´t do real damage, you really have to regain economic advantage. I am sry that i can´t say more about it because my games with this BO end really fast. Crazy Variation, featuring: Same army -2 Lings, delayed for 20 seconds, 3 hatches + Show Spoiler + 10 Overlord 10 Extractor Trick 15 Spawning Pool 16 Extractor 15 Overlord 16 Move Drone To Gas 16 Queen 19 Move Drone To Gas 19 Hatchery 18 Evolution Chamber 17 Move Drone To Gas 19 Zergling 20 Melee Attacks 1 20 Hatchery 19 Zergling 20 Zergling 21 Metabolic Boost 21 Overlord Lings from there on Not tested yet, lol Might turn into a crazy macro game is the enemy toss can deff. Replays: Pls ignore my BM and bad play:/ I try to avoid the one and improve the other. ZvZ + Show Spoiler + Against 15 hatch, on Taldarim Altar http://www.sc-replay.com/replay/12-05-11/41261-Panda-VS-shaui.html?justUp=1 Against 15 hatch on Shakuras. http://www.sc-replay.com/replay/11-05-11/41264-Panda-VS-Odisseo.html?justUp=1 ZvP + Show Spoiler + Against Close Posi, not walling. ^^ http://www.sc-replay.com/replay/11-05-11/41263-Panda-VS-EvE.html?justUp=1 Against Forge Expand http://www.sc-replay.com/replay/10-05-11/41266-Panda-VS-EVOCatechin.html?justUp=1 Against cross posi sentry heavy play Slag Pits http://www.sc-replay.com/replay/12-05-11/41268-Keeper-VS-Panda.html?justUp=1 You can also share your replays with Panda´s Evil Strike;D I hope you enjoy this little BO. Regards, Panda PS.: Criticism appreciated!:D English is not my native tongue btw Edit: Thanks to communism for correction, you will have 15 drones when attacking. So wait....let me get this right.... The point of this build is to keep the protoss on one base, meanwhile you are also only on one base and have far less drones than he does probes. Is that correct? The proper counter to this would be for the protoss to realize you are allin and just stay on one base and drop a 4(h gateway...get a few more units out and then crush you utterly because you don't have the economy to defend ytourself once your attack is stopped with 2 force fields. The protoss then laughs and all is well. | ||
GTo7_Panda
Germany68 Posts
In lower leagues this might work well and is fun to play. | ||
iNViCiOUZ
Germany364 Posts
In ZvZ a valid build i think. But i in case of banelings this would be awefull. (and blings are not that uncommon) In ZvP it fails to much everything (maybe not against a P who is not walling of) And a build that assumes that P sucks at placing FF is a bad build. | ||
Schnullerbacke13
Germany1199 Posts
Caution: Most protoss will go DT or air in response. | ||
Talkerst
124 Posts
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Vasili
Australia125 Posts
I can't speak for Zergs because I'm not as familiar with the race, but I'm thinking you could play a Spanishiwa type build, get lots of queens and wall off with spine crawlers/queens.. Mass transfusion and the like. Not sure though. | ||
SC2TheDroid
United States54 Posts
On May 17 2011 18:12 Nyast wrote: You're indeed going to delay the nexus for ~2 warp cycles.. but the cost for that is 19 potential drones early game. Is it worth it ? I don't think so. Well said, honestly. All other factors aside if the protoss sees 11 pool, which he obviously would, and hides probe to scout and sees no expansion, I think the protoss would definetely delay his expansion untill he figures out whats going on. I mentioned DT earlier because its an easy way to scout, and the archons are great vs lings, and DT can be a great defensive unit vs roach push. If you don't do damage with this, you are very far behind the protoss. I don't think this build is horrible, but any high level protoss should know to scout carefully before taking his expo after seeing an 11 pool, and if he sees a bunch of lings he can easily compensate before taking his expo. In my opinion a roach / ling mix is harder to deal with. | ||
VynsticusSC2
Netherlands10 Posts
11 Overlord 11 Spawning Pool 12 Extractor 14 Move Drone To Gas 14 Move Drone To Gas 14 Move Drone To Gas 14 Queen 16 Evolution Chamber 18 Melee Attacks 1 18 Overlord 18 Spawn Larvae 18 Overlord 18 Zergling 19 Zergling 20 Metabolic Boost 20 Zergling 21 Move Drone To Minerals 21 Spawn Larvae 21 Zergling 22 Zergling 23 Overlord 23 Zergling 24 Zergling 25 Move Drone To Minerals 25 Zergling 26 Zergling 27 Zergling 28 Zergling 29 Spawn Larvae 29 Zergling 30 Move Drone To Gas 30 Zergling 31 Zergling 32 Zergling 33 Zergling 34 Zergling 35 Zergling 36 Zergling Last Zergling completed at 5:54 ideal. 5:54.52: 223M 141G Income: 555M 114G Buildings: 1 Hatchery 1 Extractor 1 Spawning Pool 1 Evolution Chamber Units: 16 Drone 5 Overlord 1 Queen 38 Zergling Upgrades: Metabolic Boost Melee Attacks 1 A faster build with faster initial Zerglings but slower economy would be: 10 Extractor Trick 11 Overlord 11 Spawning Pool 11 Extractor 14 Move Drone To Gas 14 Move Drone To Gas 14 Move Drone To Gas 14 Evolution Chamber 13 Queen 15 Zergling 16 Melee Attacks 1 16 Zergling 17 Overlord 17 Zergling 18 Zergling 19 Spawn Larvae 19 Move Drone To Minerals 19 Metabolic Boost 19 Move Drone To Minerals 19 Move Drone To Minerals 19 Zergling 20 Zergling 21 Zergling 22 Zergling 23 Zergling 24 Zergling 25 Overlord 25 Zergling 26 Spawn Larvae 26 Zergling 27 Zergling 28 Zergling 29 Zergling 30 Zergling 31 Zergling 32 Zergling 33 Zergling 5:48.92: 170M 42G Income: 426M 114G Buildings: 1 Hatchery 1 Extractor 1 Spawning Pool 1 Evolution Chamber Units: 13 Drone 4 Overlord 1 Queen 38 Zergling Upgrades: Metabolic Boost Melee Attacks 1 | ||
michaelhasanalias
Korea (South)1231 Posts
On May 17 2011 05:29 Communism wrote: Im not sure if things have changed since the patch, but there is NO way that prepatch you could get 8 sentries by 6:15... no way unless you are an insane computer you can have 5 max this timing can break 5 sentries 1 zealot if you dont have perfect micro 30 probes, 1 zealot, 8 sentries at 6:15, with 500 in the bank to put down a pylon/nexus. Also I'm not sure why you'd say "Well I have no idea about the new patch but..." no one plays 1.3.2 now. The +1 attack timing is really interesting vs. zerg who opens 15hatch, but because of the difficulty in denying scouting against the initial lings, I'm curious how you plan to hide that super-early evolution chamber. Against Protoss this is very easy to stop except perhaps at low levels, but against zerg, even though it's a low level strategy, there could be some merit hidden in here a quick +1 attack. The issue is that because you're hitting so late, you could wall with evo chamber/roaches or something similar at the nat, and all those speedlings will just get laughed to death. I personally feel like any build that gets an evo chamber and an upgrade before units is destined for failure because of the gaping hole you leave yourself vulnerable to attack. If your opponent does any kind of early ling aggression, you're dead. If he dos any kind of roach play, your attack will fail, and if he just drones and spines up for some goofy 2-base muta, your attack is likely to also do minimal damage. edit: On May 17 2011 06:42 GTo7_Panda wrote: @ sylverfyre: I saw many zergs going for speedling expand on taldarim altar, which is autoloss against my build:D As I said, Blings are the absolute counter to this build. Also, this is not a good build. It is not solid or valid, but it is fun and it works at a surprisingly high percentage, even at highdia and lowmaster. But I don´t think this is good on very high level, I would agree with you^^ but for the 98% of players out there... It might be a fun way to play their swarm. @ Mithrandir: No, I won´t play against you if your standard includes banelings at any point:p My build relies on surprise and a high possibility of a oppponent´s FE. No question that blings own this, see my OP. I would play against you if you would play as Protoss, correct forcefielding shouldn´t be a problem. I have time tomorrow:D If everyone posted a shit build that worked only up to gold level, this forum would be flooded with garbage threads like this. Plenty of people have explained to you why this is an awful build, and some of them have been nice about it. | ||
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