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On January 03 2013 07:19 CruelZeratul wrote: I'd still but it just for the campaign, even if everything stayed the same. There will be playthroughs on youtube, so there really isnt a need to buy the game for the campaign IMO. I know I wont do it ...
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Simply put, WoL/HotS --- there is nothing else out there that is similar.
We can bitch about balance and design all we want, the simple fact is that unlike all the shooters and DoTa variants out there, there is no good Starcraft clone to compare BW, WoL or HotS to. There are other RTSes but there are no Starcraft clones.
I will buy it because of this fact.
Now, if ever Valve or some other game company releases a better game that is somewhat a Starcraft clone before March/April 2013, that will be the only time I wont buy this game.
We just wont find another game with the same buzzy/twitchy gameplay.
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Its $40.
Going to the movies is about $20.
Video games are to cheap to boycott.
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As a terran play in beta right now it really isn't super exciting. But I think Blizzard will get there before march 13. They still have 3 months of patches.
I am sure some raven, thors and tank patches is coming down the road, so don't worry. As Blizzard have said it themselves that they want mech to be fully viable in TvP.
So overall, I am optimistic and I think HOTS will surpass WOL. Blinding clouds, and Oracle spells are all going to help break up death ball style. It is going to take time for the pros to figure them out first before lower leagues players start to mimic them.
Give it some time! 40 bucks is going to worth you awhile!
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I find HOTS much more interesting than WoL personally.
Maps can make the game much more interesting imo. See Proleague.
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On January 02 2013 19:29 Zombo Joe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2013 19:04 Crypdos wrote:On January 02 2013 18:43 playa wrote: In WoL, Terran can 1a with any kind of early attack and expect to win the majority versus Toss. In HotS, it's nothing but Terran tears. "Dustin Browder set me up. In WoL, all I had to do was 1/1/1 or proxy rax. Now you're telling me I have to learn to macro? Not all-in every single game? Can you direct me to a tutorial on how to be skilful?"
It's pretty much the most beautiful game I've ever played. It ranks up there with Goldeneye and Ocarina of Time. If you can play WoL, a clown game in comparison that should never be taken seriously, and you don't get HotS, then you're either a Terran player that never tried to play a real game or your ideal game is bl/infestor every game. If that's you, good riddance. You are a pretty funny guy. Cmon, U can't be serious? He must be joking. HotS right now looks really lazy and on top of that the game is virtually the same if you play Terran. Most people have already left so the clan addition is like providing cushioned seats at a movie theater when the current seats are all empty and the movies they are showing are the same as last year. The singleplayer is completely irrelevant because the story is so shit in SC2 nobody cares anymore, buying a game like starcraft for the singleplayer is like buying battlefield for the campaign. While I can't attest to specifics in HotS, due to a lack of beta experience, I can say that broad, sweeping statements about how useless the campaign is and how nobody plays it is completely unjustified. Not only is that pure speculation with no background, because you haven't played it, but I know quite a few people who like the campaign. It's not even a terrible campaign, albeit the story is a little weak.
Also, I will buy it Day 1 no matter what ^_^
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On January 03 2013 16:07 Don.681 wrote: Simply put, WoL/HotS --- there is nothing else out there that is similar.
We can bitch about balance and design all we want, the simple fact is that unlike all the shooters and DoTa variants out there, there is no good Starcraft clone to compare BW, WoL or HotS to. There are other RTSes but there are no Starcraft clones.
I will buy it because of this fact.
Now, if ever Valve or some other game company releases a better game that is somewhat a Starcraft clone before March/April 2013, that will be the only time I wont buy this game.
We just wont find another game with the same buzzy/twitchy gameplay.
Incoming RTS: http://planetaryannihilation.com/ Company of heroes 2 is hopefully coming out as-well. Promod for Dawn of War 2 retribution is pretty balanced. I think its an interesting game, and it has some cool squad mechanics.
As a zerg player I haven`t laddered since the infestor buff, I just hated on it, quit the game in trying to reroll race, and back then I was 2k rated masters which wasn`t all too bad for a european zerg pre infestor buff. Mostly trying to go Idra styled hydra roach or muta ling bling against standard ladder stuff. Strangely enough I fondly recall nitro pack reapers. It was a blast to defend against with lings and queens like I saw Dimaga do. At times this worked, at times i lost horribly.
It was fun and all, but I keep seeing the stuff in the campain like Combat shield for lings that aren`t included in the ladder. The cool stuff for zerg wont be on the ladder. Its just swarmhosts and this strange flying caster bitch. What we get is just a fraction of what is available. Zerg is still going to be incomplete, and relying on infestor in the zerg expansion. Q,.,q
Ladder isn`t going to be important for HOTS, it has basically ceased to function as a training tool as they added those silly maps, and the game lost all legitimacy with me as the economy sham was revealed to me in the lalush post (LOL 3 base economy limit for minerals HAHAHHAHA). Brutal was not brutal enough for me so what exactly would I be paying for?
Custom games still seem like shit, the clan feature would probably help, but not enough in my opinion. I suppose it would be worth 30 bucks. I suppose the campain would be alright. I could even use it as an opportunity to reroll race without much trouble.
I thought that I would refrain from purchasing HOTS to tell blizzard that I expect more for an expansion, and there are games out there to pass my time without caving into blind purchasing on faith. When it came down to it. I guess it`s not about the money. It is about sending a message.
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816 Posts
i don't find shitty unit pathing and units that respond to what you obviously want them to do to be 'good' in any sense. yeah its cool to watch other people to do that, but i LIKE (and most people) like features like MBS etc...
i personally find people who don't like MBS/ good unit pathing etc... to be quite fucking stupid.
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@OP: I'll get HotS. It will be the occasion for me to go back to SC2. But ZvP looks retarded and Blizzard is as lazy as always so I'm not super hyped.
On January 03 2013 16:07 Don.681 wrote: Simply put, WoL/HotS --- there is nothing else out there that is similar.
We can bitch about balance and design all we want, the simple fact is that unlike all the shooters and DoTa variants out there, there is no good Starcraft clone to compare BW, WoL or HotS to. There are other RTSes but there are no Starcraft clones.
I will buy it because of this fact.
Now, if ever Valve or some other game company releases a better game that is somewhat a Starcraft clone before March/April 2013, that will be the only time I wont buy this game.
We just wont find another game with the same buzzy/twitchy gameplay.
I'm kinda surprised though that more hardcore/e-sport oriented developer haven't really tried (afaik) to take the flag for rts. Seeing how Blizzard is pretty much fail for the last years when it comes to their e-sport/community support I can see an opportunity.
I mean... it just baffles me how their design was a failure at sc2 release when it comes to create a strong community... And then when it comes to balance and game design... they just are way too arrogant for their own good and just do their random shit and then do what the community wanted like 1 year late.
They just are way too much used having no strong concurrence in their games genre.
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I don't blame anyone who decides to not buy the game if the game does not change a lot from what it is now. It plays and looks horrid if im being honest blizzard have messed up so much this year. They need to sort this out or the numbers will further decrease.
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Well I still say to mysef that they will probably work at least another 5 years on SC2 (Hots time + LotV time) so maybe in this time they will get down from their crystal tower and start working with the pros for real. At least their starting to listen when it comes to maps.
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On January 03 2013 17:45 rezoacken wrote: Well I still say to mysef that they will probably work at least another 5 years on SC2 (Hots time + LotV time) so maybe in this time they will get down from their crystal tower and start working with the pros for real. Why work with the pros when its not fun for the casuals? Pros will make it work regardless of Blizzard stupidity, but casuals will stop playing when it isnt fun anymore.
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On January 02 2013 19:58 moskonia wrote: Its a trend to hate on SC2 atm, and those who don't are considered fanboys and ignored because of that, but in seriousness SC2 is the BEST game that currently exist, at least for me. While the current metagame is a bit stale, its only because of the maps, and that is why for example the proleague is so exiting. Compare the amount of time per price you did on WoL to other games and you will see it was worth it as hell, that will be the same as for HotS, that is why I see no reason not to get it.
If you really dislike the game so much that your not even going to buy it, then why are you here in the forum? If you're going to say that you simply want to try and improve it, trying to somehow "save" it, then its a non-valid argument, since most of the changes to WoL were given not in the beta, but after it, so the of course at the start HotS will be imbalanced, and as more ways to play it are figured out it will prove to be imbalanced until patches and player creativity will lead to a changing balanced metagame.
Well put.
I'm enjoying my time with the hots beta and I'm not worried at all, it's shaping out alright. It's already better than WOL, which is a pretty good game.
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3 months for patches i think blizzard will be able to pull it off. Give it some time before writing it off...
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On January 03 2013 17:49 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 17:45 rezoacken wrote: Well I still say to mysef that they will probably work at least another 5 years on SC2 (Hots time + LotV time) so maybe in this time they will get down from their crystal tower and start working with the pros for real. Why work with the pros when its not fun for the casuals? Pros will make it work regardless of Blizzard stupidity, but casuals will stop playing when it isnt fun anymore.
I disagree. Pros push the game to an extent where bad design and imbalances are shown. Whereas I can give random stuff to casuals and they will have fun with it balanced or not. And that's what the campaign are for... tons of little toys to play with. Don't hear me wrong, I don't want the gameplay to change and be annoying to casual (things like bad pathfinding and stuff). I'm all for an easy gameplay but when it comes to designing new units and balancing I don't believe in this whole "make it fun for casual, pros will find a way who cares" attitude.
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hots imho is not worth 40/50 euros. The game is almost the same old shit as WOL with even more retard stuff as the new reaper or the whole zerg race buff which, honestly,wasnt required AT ALL.
Blizzard has to take SERIOUS move towards the reworking of this game and in first place they HAVE to address the zerg race as a whole. unfortunately they seem to not have the balls to make this game funny except for the amovers so, why should i buy a game just to be stompe by bl infestor or ultra infestor again?
3 base 200/200 amove aint funny, especially when there is one deathball to rule them all.
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On January 03 2013 18:25 Stilgorn wrote: hots imho is not worth 40/50 euros. The game is almost the same old shit as WOL with even more retard stuff as the new reaper or the whole zerg race buff which, honestly,wasnt required AT ALL.
Blizzard has to take SERIOUS move towards the reworking of this game and in first place they HAVE to address the zerg race as a whole. unfortunately they seem to not have the balls to make this game funny except for the amovers so, why should i buy a game just to be stompe by bl infestor or ultra infestor again?
3 base 200/200 amove aint funny, especially when there is one deathball to rule them all.
You dont understand that HOTS is breaking the 200 200 deathball, and now it 200 200 multisquad, spreaded armies ?
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From the comments, it's a pretty surprising how many people support HotS because they have the money and how there is no other game on the market remotely similar to SC2. I thought there weren't that many people, but almost half of the people buying used that mentality. All of that is nothing anyone else can control; if you have the money to buy it, then buy it. Even if it's not exactly that great a game from other people's opinions, there is no other game on the market so its still worth the money. These people alone seem to count for at least 50% of the yes's. Blizzard is making the money from these kinds of people, and as long as they buy the game, Blizzard will think they're doing a great job, simply because they're reeling in the dough. I guess I expect too much out of video games nowadays...
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On January 03 2013 18:03 rezoacken wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 17:49 Rabiator wrote:On January 03 2013 17:45 rezoacken wrote: Well I still say to mysef that they will probably work at least another 5 years on SC2 (Hots time + LotV time) so maybe in this time they will get down from their crystal tower and start working with the pros for real. Why work with the pros when its not fun for the casuals? Pros will make it work regardless of Blizzard stupidity, but casuals will stop playing when it isnt fun anymore. I disagree. Pros push the game to an extent where bad design and imbalances are shown. Whereas I can give random stuff to casuals and they will have fun with it balanced or not. And that's what the campaign are for... tons of little toys to play with. Don't hear me wrong, I don't want the gameplay to change and be annoying to casual (things like bad pathfinding and stuff). I'm all for an easy gameplay but when it comes to designing new units and balancing I don't believe in this whole "make it fun for casual, pros will find a way who cares" attitude. No they dont ... pros brush over bad design through their higher skill. Pros are also usually pretty "single minded" about their own race and dont look at "the whole picture" ... which is needed to find the stuff which actually make the game terrible for casuals.
The campaign has lots of features which dont exist in the multiplayer game. That isnt really a good thing, because you basically have two different "reference levels" where stuff works in the campaign but doesnt work in a multiplayer game. BW didnt need that ... Sure you can add exciting stuff like flame turrets on top of your bunkers or automatically upgraded units later on in the game or Nydus worm variants, but they dont really work for multiplayer and Starcraft is good because it has FEW units.
Things like "limited unit selection" are GOOD FOR CASUALS because they are making it harder for an attacking player to kill you. Even a casual will have an easy time to set up your units at a choke point to defend against a possible attack ... well if the game has units that are efficient at defending such a choke point by themselves and without any clicks of the player, which is something that SC2 doesnt have. BW had it and was great. The thing about "unlimited unit selection" is that it is only better if you dont think about it, but if you do you see that it puts too much advantage on the attacker and disadvantages the defender and turns players into "1a-idiots who cant do it any other way because they have been told that being lazy is good". SC2 has so many "ez-mode improvements" over BW, but that has turned the game into a much faster game which is decided in ever smaller time segments. If you fail to split your Marines against Banelings you lose. If you fail to cast Forcefield when the enemy is running up your ramp you lose ... and so on. This "split second decision making" is bad for casuals but pros dont mind it and thus it will never be changed.
"Good game mechanics" or "bad game mechanics" is decided by your perception of them. If you want an easy to play game then you want unlimited unit selection, but if you want one where the attacker needs to work for his victory and where superior numbers dont give you an automatic win then you want limited unit selection. That stupid "but it is 2013 now and technology has advanced" argument doesnt count, because otherwise we would have to ask for Marines autosplitting against Banelings by themselves ... because technology can certanly do stuff like that.
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Blizzard does what it wants with SC2 and is only interested in feedback by pros when the tournament scene faces some imbalance. Other than that they dont care ... and that is wrong IMO.
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