SaSes 99 cents about the game - Page 28
Forum Index > SC2 General |
mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
| ||
Schnullerbacke13
Germany1199 Posts
| ||
mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
| ||
Ziggitz
United States340 Posts
1.) Remove forcefields. 2.) Rebalance the game. This is a huge problem that should have been addressed over a year ago, and despite HOTS being the perfect time to shake things up and fix it, Blizzard isn't going to by the looks of things, so enjoy the nr meta of PvZ for the next few years. | ||
Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
On October 21 2012 08:06 ZAiNs wrote: Do you know how to read? If yes then maybe you should read SaSe's post before criticising someone with infinitely more knowledge than you. if you could read you would see a whole lot of buffs for toss and nerfs for zerg and no nerfs for toss and no buffs for zerg in a balanced MU. ZvP is bad designwise not balancewise. so yeah of course sase has more gameknowledge than me and you but doesnt change anything about this bad post of balancewhining and only suggesting to buff P/nerf Z instead of making good suggestions for better design (like making fungal a slow, remove FF, remove vortex etc.) would be. | ||
Nevosis
France27 Posts
You re still the best protoss in my heart <3 | ||
ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On October 22 2012 01:43 Decendos wrote: if you could read you would see a whole lot of buffs for toss and nerfs for zerg and no nerfs for toss and no buffs for zerg in a balanced MU. ZvP is bad designwise not balancewise. so yeah of course sase has more gameknowledge than me and you but doesnt change anything about this bad post of balancewhining and only suggesting to buff P/nerf Z instead of making good suggestions for better design (like making fungal a slow, remove FF, remove vortex etc.) would be. Ok because you can't be bothered to read SaSe's post let me quote one of his paragraphs for you: + Show Spoiler + *Remove mothership. We are not playing wc3. We are not playing dota neither any other moba game either. It's just silly to have something you can just have one of. It's way too much swings to have a unit like this. Good vortex vs bad vortex vs no vortex vs reversed vortex. It's like playing World Series of Poker with jokers. Guess only Darvin Moon would like that. To balance starcraft a very important thing is to remove randomness as much as possible and this is by far the biggest random factor in the game. Then again maybe you read that as a Zerg nerf because now they can't neural a Mothership any more! Maybe you should read the rest of the post too, it's quite insightful. But someone who doesn't think anything is wrong with PvZ is probably to stupid to understand most of SaSe's points. | ||
Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
On October 22 2012 01:47 ZAiNs wrote: Ok because you can't be bothered to read SaSe's post let me quote one of his paragraphs for you: + Show Spoiler + *Remove mothership. We are not playing wc3. We are not playing dota neither any other moba game either. It's just silly to have something you can just have one of. It's way too much swings to have a unit like this. Good vortex vs bad vortex vs no vortex vs reversed vortex. It's like playing World Series of Poker with jokers. Guess only Darvin Moon would like that. To balance starcraft a very important thing is to remove randomness as much as possible and this is by far the biggest random factor in the game. Then again maybe you read that as a Zerg nerf because now they can't neural a Mothership any more! Maybe you should read the rest of the post too, it's quite insightful. But someone who doesn't think anything is wrong with PvZ is probably to stupid to understand most of SaSe's points. didnt see that one. obv. a good suggestion. still too much whining like losing to lingrunbys or bad suggestions like 50 energy for detection and an attack. he talks about winning with skill and wants things like less lingrunbys and supereasy defence for toss in the game. or the example where he wants AI to be higher attacking range so units attack automatically instead of having to micro them. also takes skill OUT of the game. i already said earlier some suggestions are good but most is just whining about balance and not about game design which he should talk about. | ||
ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On October 22 2012 01:52 Decendos wrote: didnt see that one. obv. a good suggestion. still too much whining like losing to lingrunbys or bad suggestions like 50 energy for detection and an attack. he talks about winning with skill and wants things like less lingrunbys and supereasy defence for toss in the game. i already said earlier some suggestions are good but most is just whining about balance and not about game design which he should talk about. A Zealot in a gap sometimes not stopping Zerglings from getting past seems like luck to me, not skill. | ||
Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
btw sases stream is basically the only protoss stream i watch from time to time as a zerg player since i like his style. so its nothing personal if i critisize his bad post. | ||
Nuclease
United States1049 Posts
This entire thread simply proves the point that professional players will always preach imbalance of any race except their own. Do I actually think that's true one hundred percent of the time? No, I don't. But you are just reaffirming the stereotype. This thread was backed up by essentially no evidence except for your own opinion as a progamer. Is that important? Yes. But, can it prove a true imbalance in the game? No. What you have essentially done here is posted a blog post as a progamer and you have been allowed due to your reputation. You seem to ignore the problems of the late game that PvZ-haters have already brought up (I hate late game PvZ myself and I see some imbalance there). You don't use the experiences of anyone but yourself, and we get no actual evidence. Please, back this thread up better and then we can talk about this more productively. | ||
Kleen-X
Denmark48 Posts
| ||
cosnagoo
12 Posts
| ||
Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
Though as a Protoss I agree with most of what you say. The lategame PvZ - vortex vs neural - is ridiculous. It's practically impossible for Toss to win without it, but with it can spell disaster. | ||
NOOBALOPSE
Canada802 Posts
On October 19 2012 11:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Protoss certainly has a better understanding of Protoss then Zerg or Terran does... especially when he's one of the best Protoss foreigners who plays the game. I would beg to differ. They experience problems with their own race because of their deficiency in skill and so no one can know that much about the other race, but I would say that most people know about the other race because of the problems they experience with their own race which shows them what is good about the other race. In other words, it's easy for anyone to focus on what's bad about their own race and not see what's good at the same time. For example, I'm a zerg and I think recall is WAY underused. Just think about it. It sounds like complete bullshit that I can go into your base kill everything and leave untouched then almost have 2 vortexes ready before I come to your base to kill you in the late game. That doesn't mean that Recall is overpowered. That just means that it's strong, like a lot of other abilities and units are in SC2. | ||
NOOBALOPSE
Canada802 Posts
On October 22 2012 04:24 Larkin wrote: How has this not been warned as a balance whine? Wee bit of double standards going on... how surprising. Though as a Protoss I agree with most of what you say. The lategame PvZ - vortex vs neural - is ridiculous. It's practically impossible for Toss to win without it, but with it can spell disaster. I agree, complete balance whine. Infested Terrans not attacking up? Any idea of what would happen in muta ZvZ? | ||
InVerno
258 Posts
| ||
aka_star
United Kingdom1546 Posts
| ||
convention
United States622 Posts
On October 22 2012 04:32 NOOBALOPSE wrote: I agree, complete balance whine. Infested Terrans not attacking up? Any idea of what would happen in muta ZvZ? I have an idea of what would happen, mutas would still get fungaled to death, just now it takes slightly more energy to kill the 1k/1k resources without any repercussion. In any case, he isn't whining about balance as much as things that make the game frustrating. I would say almost every protoss has experienced seeing lings run at their base, warping in a zealot in the gap, and watching the lings just run by anyway. That is not getting outplayed by the opponent, it is just getting unlucky. Same goes with BL/infestor. Protoss cannot fight it, so you hope that they clump up the BLs, that they don't have neural, that they aren't paying attention, and that you can land the vortex and still get archons into vortex. That is what SaSe is complaining about, that you have to roll the weighted dice and hope you win if you want to play late game PvZ. The game is balance because protoss either does a 2base all in, or a huge timing attack right before the greater spire finishes. I think everyone would agree that this is not how the game should be. Again, this isn't as much balance whine as it is what really needs to be changed (and obviously rebalanced). He makes some really good points. | ||
mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
On October 22 2012 03:03 Nuclease wrote: SaSe, I'm a little bit disappointed to be honest. This entire thread simply proves the point that professional players will always preach imbalance of any race except their own. Do I actually think that's true one hundred percent of the time? No, I don't. But you are just reaffirming the stereotype. Stereotype? Lol... what do you guys expect... money is on the line... like I said it's like politics... everyone wants their ideas listened to so that they benefit with cash | ||
| ||