Maybe I'm missing something because as far as I can tell, he does a pretty darn good job, and doesn't embellish beyond giving the players' answers more...feeling. I feel like he adds the tone and body language to the players' seemingly stoic responses. I haven't seen many of his post-match interviews, but I haven't noticed any translations/interpretations that were very different from what was said. I don't know, I guess my Korean isn't that good.
From my experience, Korean and English are such different languages. I feel like the nuance in Korean is usually in the words, whereas the nuance in English is often in tone, rhythm, facial expression, and body language. From what I've learned, there are some words in English that can be translated as multiple words in Korean depending on the situation and context. Korean seems to have some oddly specific words that just don't seem to exist in English. Perhaps this is what people are talking about? Particularly between English and Korean, it's pretty much impossible to translate word for word.
For what it's worth, I feel like Mal does a great job of not just translating, but interpreting (which is, in my opinion, way more important).
On September 23 2014 17:14 SWAT-Kat wrote: Maybe I'm missing something because as far as I can tell, he does a pretty darn good job, and doesn't embellish beyond giving the players' answers more...feeling. I feel like he adds the tone and body language to the players' seemingly stoic responses. I haven't seen many of his post-match interviews, but I haven't noticed any translations/interpretations that were very different from what was said. I don't know, I guess my Korean isn't that good.
From my experience, Korean and English are such different languages. I feel like the nuance in Korean is usually in the words, whereas the nuance in English is often in tone, rhythm, facial expression, and body language. From what I've learned, there are some words in English that can be translated as multiple words in Korean depending on the situation and context. Korean seems to have some oddly specific words that just don't seem to exist in English. Perhaps this is what people are talking about? Particularly between English and Korean, it's pretty much impossible to translate word for word.
For what it's worth, I feel like Mal does a great job of not just translating, but interpreting (which is, in my opinion, way more important).
Thank you for expressing the idea I was trying to explain in my earlier post way better than I did. I agree with you !
On September 23 2014 14:13 TRaFFiC wrote: Mistranslating is bad. However, he's by far the best translator sc2 has had. Translators in the past obviously struggle with the language and come off as nervous. His English is great (a lot of what he does is translating idioms from Korean to English) and he is confident. Imo, there is no room for nervousness in translation. It makes it so the message is unclear/weak.
nah i dont think hes the best
imo Chobra is by far the best, then i had Lil Susie and James MAL tied for 2nd/3rd
but if its true that James mistranslates stuff to add his own "flavor" to the interviewers/players...well im going have to put him behind Lil Susie and with the rest of the other translators so Chobra>Lil Susie>MAL and others
I don't know Korean so I don't know how "accurate" the translations are but I kind of remember reading the Acer interview where he said he originally started translating because he was friends with Jaedong or something, and that maybe some of the gamers are more comfortable with him because he knows a lot of them? I might be remembering incorrectly though (bad memory).
Like SWAT-Kat said, I think interpreting is more important than a word-for-word translation... as long as it's accurate, of course. I know sometimes translating from Chinese to English is pretty hard (at least it's hard for me to convey the same exact meaning without being super rambley) so maybe he's trying to do the same thing. I'd like to know how much he changes or embellishes, though, if he does.
On September 23 2014 12:58 Waxangel wrote: Regarding the liberties Mal sometimes takes with the translations and the backlash against it:
I think there's an innate resistance for some of the more hardcore fans to accept that esports, and sports in general, is probably more of an entertainment business than they'd like.
I dunno if that contributed but I just wanted to type some words D:
But in an entertainment industry, all a player has to define themselves is the identity that they project. That's partly through body language but a lot by what they say (think about the number of fans MC or Parting has, largely because of the personalities they bring). If you alter the meaning of what they say, they no longer have the control of their identity.
(E.G. If a player wants to be the guy that always respects their opponents and never BMs, but a translator adds in hype like "and he says he's much better so he'll win easily", then it denies that player the ability to project that identity. That can obviously effect things later on like if they want to join a team where manners are important.
Not to say that Mal has done any of that, it's just not something to be taken in stride.
This thread, oddly enough, reminds me of the most awkward question I had to interpret during my years of interpreting for GoH focus panels at various anime conventions (I started in 2001 and retired in 2012): "How do you know the interpreter is doing her job and not making things up?" (Yes, it was an actual question in a focus panel.)
The flow of the thread also reminds me of how, over the years, I have been received as an interpreter: not everyone will agree with my interpretation of the Japanese. Some loved me and stayed after panels at AX just to tell me "thank you for being a wonderful interpreter", and some complained on forums that, in their light, I was "flat-out wrong". And truth be told, I've had times where I felt that a senpai interpreter misinterpreted and that I could have done better than him, so I can see why the KR/EN bilinguals who are critical of James think the way they do.
First off, I think all of the KR/EN interpreters for the 2014 season are doing pretty well for having to memorize everything they're interpreting. Interpreting is a lot easier (especially in getting wording to various nuances correct) if you have pen and paper to jot down key words - and without those tools it can become very easy to miss a key word if you happen to get stuck on a different key word mid-sentence.
What Waxangel said with respect to the hardcore fans unable to accept that sports in general is an entertainment business, I believe, is pretty much spot-on. I noticed how there were people looking forward to WCS-AM 2015 because there is more potential for cross-continent rivalry and more English-only trash-talking in the pregame interviews. My personal take is that Asians in general are pretty modest/humble so not much of that trash-talking will happen (outside of PartinG, that boy is a league of his own and I love him dearly for it) so I can see the desire to spice up the English a little bit while interpreting so that half of the interview doesn't sound bland compared to the other half.
I think the issue here is that some think James is adding just enough spice, some think it's too much spice, and some even think no spice is necessary. I'm pretty sure that if you paid ESL to hire an "established professional interpreter", you still wouldn't get "100% accurate" interpreting because chances are very likely they'd get all the SC2 terminology wrong, and all the interviews would be so cut-and-dry (even if the Korean was actually speaking in a lively manner) that it would just not sound "right" next to a hype-filled English-only interview from the other side. Over the years, I noticed that the best interpreters always have the right mix of "correct/professional" along with "love of the subject/fan"- so for this case, it may be more of the KR/EN bilingual crowd helping James fine-tune that mixture to perfection, instead of merely criticizing him that he's overdoing it / he sucks / etc.
On September 23 2014 14:13 TRaFFiC wrote: Mistranslating is bad. However, he's by far the best translator sc2 has had. Translators in the past obviously struggle with the language and come off as nervous. His English is great (a lot of what he does is translating idioms from Korean to English) and he is confident. Imo, there is no room for nervousness in translation. It makes it so the message is unclear/weak.
nah i dont think hes the best
imo Chobra is by far the best, then i had Lil Susie and James MAL tied for 2nd/3rd
but if its true that James mistranslates stuff to add his own "flavor" to the interviewers/players...well im going have to put him behind Lil Susie and with the rest of the other translators so Chobra>Lil Susie>MAL and others
Chobro, Smix, Sojung top 3
Sojung top 1 with a power gap between her and the 2nd place.
Yeah im gonna agree with the people who're more for the as close to what was originally said translations compared to adding more flair into what they say. I understand people want to build hype/storylines but it really makes the translations pointless if we dont even know whats really been said and whats been added.
Have English speaking Koreans actually confirmed that James is adding things to the translations? I have yet to see any examples of this in the posts...
Anyway, no questions for him but I'm a fan. He's energetic and the players like him.
After thinking about it again, I do have some questions for him: why is he always wearing a cap ? I've never seen him without it. Is there a story behind his love for caps ? Secondly, what is his situation job-wise ? Is he only working in esports ? Is he a translator/interpret exclusively or does he have other activities ?
I don't know if it was James mistranslating from Axeltoss to Bomber (iirc) or the other way around, but it felt strange to ask about Blizzcon and receive a totally different answer. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?
On September 23 2014 21:06 kaykoose wrote: Have English speaking Koreans actually confirmed that James is adding things to the translations? I have yet to see any examples of this in the posts...
On September 23 2014 21:06 kaykoose wrote: Have English speaking Koreans actually confirmed that James is adding things to the translations? I have yet to see any examples of this in the posts...
Can anyone who actually knows Korean weigh in on this? These posts are all of the "I checked with this guy I know who speaks Korean" variety which is a lot less reliable, and "'There's no I in team' is not a Korean saying" is not in itself a valid criticism of a translation since he might have just translated a Korean saying into its closest English equivalent which is a perfectly valid thing to do. Having done translation myself (not from Korean) banter and cultural expressions can be VERY difficult to translate into another language, and even words that can be translated literally are often best not translated literally since they have a different connotation in the native language than a literal translation would suggest.
But if he's not just "embellishing" while keeping the same meaning but is really making crap up (like adding an insult to foreign players to Life's response as mentioned in the links) that's terrible and unprofessional. It has nothing to do with "entertainment" and anyone arguing that is crazy. He's putting words in other people's mouths and misrepresenting them if he's doing that, and is doing a huge disservice to the scene. Koreans are already notoriously reluctant to share opinions, if they find out that some crazy guy is making up their interview translations they will just stop doing interviews entirely (that's what I'd do in their place--who knows what kind of crazy thing he will ascribe to me that everyone will believe I said).
On September 23 2014 21:06 kaykoose wrote: Have English speaking Koreans actually confirmed that James is adding things to the translations? I have yet to see any examples of this in the posts...
From what I see here, he only adds things to make interviews more awesome. Life 'says' that foreigners are terrible in an interview? I don't really see that as an insult, nor it changes the opinion I have of him. Koreans like MC and PartinG trash talk just to make everything funnier and please the fans. That's why everyone loves them.
Koreans are already notoriously reluctant to share opinions, if they find out that some crazy guy is making up their interview translations they will just stop doing interviews entirely (that's what I'd do in their place--who knows what kind of crazy thing he will ascribe to me that everyone will believe I said).
James is also Korean. He is probably close with many of the players.
On September 23 2014 21:06 kaykoose wrote: Have English speaking Koreans actually confirmed that James is adding things to the translations? I have yet to see any examples of this in the posts...
From what I see here, he only adds things to make interviews more awesome. Life 'says' that foreigners are terrible in an interview? I don't really see that as an insult, nor it changes the opinion I have of him. Koreans like MC and PartinG trash talk just to make everything funnier and please the fans. That's why everyone loves them.
Koreans are already notoriously reluctant to share opinions, if they find out that some crazy guy is making up their interview translations they will just stop doing interviews entirely (that's what I'd do in their place--who knows what kind of crazy thing he will ascribe to me that everyone will believe I said).
James is also Korean. He is probably close with many of the players.
You are a terrible poster.
Does it strike as an insult ? I'm sure it has. (i wasn't serious by the way). But you see the point.
Since i'm not speaking koreans, i skip/don't listen to his interviews/translation because i'm not even sure this is "my player" talking. Even if it's embelishing.
For exemple : "My macro is godlier" sounds arrogant and we know Flash is really humble. It works when it's PartinG because we know he his like that. But you can't make up a personality. If the guy is shy and don't want to share opinion. Well... you have to translate it. You can't make up things.
But he is new so maybe he will find the balance to "more exiting" but "real".
So my question to him would be : "What do you answer to those of us who are not happy because you embelish translation ? Are we wrong ? If so, why ?"
On September 23 2014 18:53 rikapi wrote: inb4 a JP/EN interpreter's wall of text...
This thread, oddly enough, reminds me of the most awkward question I had to interpret during my years of interpreting for GoH focus panels at various anime conventions (I started in 2001 and retired in 2012): "How do you know the interpreter is doing her job and not making things up?" (Yes, it was an actual question in a focus panel.)
The flow of the thread also reminds me of how, over the years, I have been received as an interpreter: not everyone will agree with my interpretation of the Japanese. Some loved me and stayed after panels at AX just to tell me "thank you for being a wonderful interpreter", and some complained on forums that, in their light, I was "flat-out wrong". And truth be told, I've had times where I felt that a senpai interpreter misinterpreted and that I could have done better than him, so I can see why the KR/EN bilinguals who are critical of James think the way they do.
First off, I think all of the KR/EN interpreters for the 2014 season are doing pretty well for having to memorize everything they're interpreting. Interpreting is a lot easier (especially in getting wording to various nuances correct) if you have pen and paper to jot down key words - and without those tools it can become very easy to miss a key word if you happen to get stuck on a different key word mid-sentence.
What Waxangel said with respect to the hardcore fans unable to accept that sports in general is an entertainment business, I believe, is pretty much spot-on. I noticed how there were people looking forward to WCS-AM 2015 because there is more potential for cross-continent rivalry and more English-only trash-talking in the pregame interviews. My personal take is that Asians in general are pretty modest/humble so not much of that trash-talking will happen (outside of PartinG, that boy is a league of his own and I love him dearly for it) so I can see the desire to spice up the English a little bit while interpreting so that half of the interview doesn't sound bland compared to the other half.
I think the issue here is that some think James is adding just enough spice, some think it's too much spice, and some even think no spice is necessary. I'm pretty sure that if you paid ESL to hire an "established professional interpreter", you still wouldn't get "100% accurate" interpreting because chances are very likely they'd get all the SC2 terminology wrong, and all the interviews would be so cut-and-dry (even if the Korean was actually speaking in a lively manner) that it would just not sound "right" next to a hype-filled English-only interview from the other side. Over the years, I noticed that the best interpreters always have the right mix of "correct/professional" along with "love of the subject/fan"- so for this case, it may be more of the KR/EN bilingual crowd helping James fine-tune that mixture to perfection, instead of merely criticizing him that he's overdoing it / he sucks / etc.
I think this is an AMAZINGLY great point, thank you for sharing your experience. Can't please everyone no matter how you translate/interpret things because everyone wants something different. With that said though, I do agree that if he is perhaps changing the perceived personality of a player by adding bits and pieces to their responses during interviews, that would be bad. But it depends on how much/what kind of information he's adding, which is again subjective. Overall, I realllllly like him and what he brings to each event.
On September 23 2014 14:13 TRaFFiC wrote: Mistranslating is bad. However, he's by far the best translator sc2 has had. Translators in the past obviously struggle with the language and come off as nervous. His English is great (a lot of what he does is translating idioms from Korean to English) and he is confident. Imo, there is no room for nervousness in translation. It makes it so the message is unclear/weak.
nah i dont think hes the best
imo Chobra is by far the best, then i had Lil Susie and James MAL tied for 2nd/3rd
but if its true that James mistranslates stuff to add his own "flavor" to the interviewers/players...well im going have to put him behind Lil Susie and with the rest of the other translators so Chobra>Lil Susie>MAL and others
Chobro, Smix, Sojung top 3
havent had the chance to experience Sojung's interviews
I think in general the translators and interviewers should work together more to get better questions asked. Obviously some like Smix can do both, but sometimes the questions are awkward even in English, so how can people expect a good answer after it travels across languages?
Ok so here is an opinion from yours truly, with some stage translation experience (1 offline event, on stage, from Mandarin to English): finding 100% reliable translations on the fly is difficult to do.
First and foremost one must consider the quality of language skills of both languages for an interpretor / translator. I am able to converse about pretty much any game I want to. If I sit down with a player and talk strategies for a few minutes with SC2, I have no trouble with that (especially given that it is the game that I play the most, and love the most).
Secondly, other things to consider with translation are the background noises of various forms: The audience going wild, people just chit-chatting in the background, and something that you guys don't hear on the streams - the echo from the speakers at the live event itself. Whatever is said at the live event in to your microphone is repeated 1 second later in your own ears.
Often times, it may seem that many first time interpretors / translators may have no prior stage-translation experience. That was my case with my first offline event, so many details from interviews are left out because they are simply not audible.
Other factors: some times interviews may be produced and translated from One language to another and finally in to English. That's where things get super-confusing. Example below:
What I am trying to say is that in the video above, you all can hear this clearly because of course they are speaking in to microphones that 1) Don't pick up the background conversations of the audience and 2) Don't pick up the echo of the huge speakers at the front of the stage. I don't think you guys could really see it on my face, but I was also somewhat nervous.
One final mistake I made: it was actually jaedong, not sen that was mentioned in the interview. How could I make that mistake? -_-