Student Girl Has Tongue Job To Speak Korean - Page 5
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hongo
207 Posts
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Emporio
United States3069 Posts
On August 12 2011 23:43 aurum510 wrote: This is going to sound really weird/disgusting, but as a child I basically did this procedure to myself over time. I have no gag reflex, so I am able to basically put my tongue up the back of my throat into the back of the nose area. It's called hypermobile tongue. And the area of the back of the throat that leads to the nose is the nasopharynx. You can look it up on google "hypermobile tongue nasopharynx". Needless to say, before I did this to myself (it seemed natural, it hurt every day, but after a few weeks the skin was gone and healed) I was easily able to touch my tongue to the tip of my nose (on the outside). I guess this inspired me? P.S. I'm not weird or mutated or anything in any other way, it just happened! It's useful to remove mucus when you have issues with it, especially in the morning. Yeah. That sounds gross, but I have very fresh breath, as I take care of my mouth! For the visually inclined, here's a picture from wikipedia of the nasopharynx. That's why I can put my tongue. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Illu_pharynx.jpg [Edit]: I don't think I've told my fiancee I can do this yet... Maybe I should... Wait... wtf, you cut that flap yourself??? Why hasn't anyone else commented on this???? | ||
caradoc
Canada3022 Posts
On August 13 2011 05:39 epikAnglory wrote: I don't know if this is news to that many people, but it is common. My uncle underwent this surgery because he could not pronounce the "er" sound in English or Chinese. Many Korean celebrities do this as well to pronounce English better. This does not make it miraculously possible to speak a language fluently, but does overcome some minor barriers. I'm actually a language specialist. This is absolute complete bunk. There is absolutely no way this type of surgery will help with anything. (unless you're the surgeon, in which case it will help your bank account) 1) There are no "racial" differences in tongue shape/size. 1.5) Even if there were, tongue shape/size does not affect ability to pronounce things in any way that has ever actually been shown to make a difference--- evidenced by second generation immigrants growing up in a different linguistic environment than their parents, having perfect pronounciation (of both their parents language, and the language of whatever country they happen to live in, whether that be Korea or the US or Swaziland or Mongolia). 2) Phonemes (little units of sound) are learned very early on by children, who can acquire them quickly and accurately due to higher neuroplasticity (or active language acquisition devices, if you believe more outdated theories) in the brain. Many adults have trouble with second languages often because they think in terms of their first language, and preserve first language 'categories' of sounds. This can be mitigated by some people who are able to listen to actual sounds rather than their first language categorical perception of sounds and can consequently shape their pronunciation to native-like proficiency even as adults. 2.5) ability to pronounce is a neurological thing. 3) The pairing of notions of race with those of language is a national consciousness thing. It's problematic, and many similar ideas were prevalent during the worst periods of fascism in the first half of the 20th century. (e.g. Nazi master race idea) The idea that races have languages (or cultures, or blood types which associate with personalities etc) is similar to ideas of romantic nationalism, and is often a tool in creating a national identity, problematic as it is (i.e. this is our race, this is our nation. Our race/nation has this language, and this culture. outsiders cannot have access to it because they are not of our race etc etc etc). 4) I can't believe people still actually believe this stuff. | ||
Thunder_Sturm
United States36 Posts
And is it possible that as a person ages, the shape of the tongue adjusts a little based on what phonemes it's been habitually pronouncing for years? It may become harder to stretch into unfamiliar positions? | ||
Elasticity
3420 Posts
On August 12 2011 22:46 Jombozeus wrote: South Asians have trouble with Ls and Korean/Japanese have trouble with Rs. Not that hard. Not in vietnam. Vietnamese is based on Alphabet letters (created by a French bishop). The only real trouble is /th/ as in "think" | ||
caradoc
Canada3022 Posts
On August 13 2011 07:28 Thunder_Sturm wrote: So it won't magically make it possible to pronounce new sounds, but are you sure it can't make it easier? You have to learn to recognize new phonemes, but you also have to learn how to make the sounds with your mouth. It seems reasonable to me that learning to make sounds could be easier if the tongue has a little more freedom of motion. I mean, I've no idea whether it DOES, but we can't really rule it out can we? And is it possible that as a person ages, the shape of the tongue adjusts a little based on what phonemes it's been habitually pronouncing for years? It may become harder to stretch into unfamiliar positions? Its all neurological. Its like when you change your hotkeys, your 'muscle memory' (i.e. the neural pathways you developed in getting accustomed to your old setup) will cause you to make mistakes. Of course people will try to argue that its not bunk, and that theres a reason to have surgery because that's what people do. I'm just saying its bunk, there is absolutely no evidence for it, and quite a bit of evidence that suggests that its bunk. But I can't change people's decision to believe it isn't. | ||
annul
United States2841 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
Brethern
231 Posts
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zestzorb
Thailand776 Posts
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Sawajiri
Austria417 Posts
ㄹ can have two sounds, actually. The 'clean' L-sound sounds similar to an English L (e.g: the L's in Hallyu) -- subtle differences in tongue location, but overall, just an L (when I pronounce it, I notice that my tongue is more bowed when I do the English L and stiffer for the Korean one, but overall it's similar enough). When followed by a vowel, ㄹ takes on the sound of that consonant that is somewhere between L and R to English ears, and it does not exist in English. It's made by touching your tongue to the roof of your mouth close to your teeth and flapping it down. The sound is difficult for a lot of native English speaker to master not because its difficult in terms of tongue positioning, but because they're simply not familiar with it if they're from a monolingual background. However, difficulty with this sound because of tongue length would only seem to be an issue if your tongue was so short it couldn't reach up until just behind your teeth, but I've never heard of such a thing. Besides, there are sounds in English (such as the 'th' sound) that require you to extend your tongue to the front of the mouth as well, so I really fail to see how this girl's tongue was long enough to pronounce all the different sounds in English but not a simple ㄹ. O.o | ||
TheKwas
Iceland372 Posts
Normally, my experience with Korean/English is that English overall requires more versatile mouth movement. Assuming for a second that this story isn't total bs and this girl really couldn't pronouce ㄹ due to her tongue then there's no way she's speaking english without a lisp | ||
Voltaire
United States1485 Posts
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SPaZma
Norway12 Posts
On August 13 2011 08:00 zestzorb wrote: Can a Korean with a short tongue can speak Korean like a native? Makes me wonder.. Win. | ||
sickle
New Zealand656 Posts
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sCfO20
176 Posts
Perhaps, she is a carpet muncher... in disguise??? (Please be good to me TL, I was just joking) God dammit I was beaten to it like 20 times. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
mapthesoul
Trinidad/Tobago429 Posts
On August 13 2011 12:09 sCfO20 wrote: Hmmm... I know i'll prolly get temp banned for this.. But this sounds like there's an alternative motive for this, as such a drastic action requires a much more logical explanation than simply a few syllables in a tongue that only a small part of the world speaks. Perhaps, she is a carpet muncher... in disguise??? (Please be good to me TL, I was just joking) God dammit I was beaten to it like 20 times. Don't underestimate the Koreaboo's. | ||
RosaParksStoleMySeat
Japan926 Posts
1.) By learning to play an instrument (according to multiple studies, the violin or piano work best) in youth. The general idea here is that being able to recognize subtle differences between sounds (as is required of playing the violin or piano) can improve your ability to perceive different phonemes, and therefore your ability to produce them. 2.) By engaging in extensive practice in sound perception. Another interesting line of studies have indicated that extensive practice in perceiving differing phonemes (through, for instance, computer software using minimal pairs) can also improve the learner's production of those phonemes. Again, this is about awareness of those phonemes and how they sound. tl;dr: The only way that you can improve your production of phonemes is by improving your ability to perceive them; tongue surgery, repetition exercises, and the like do nothing. It is a scam. Doctors who perform this procedure should be charged with malpractice. | ||
Kyrillion
Russian Federation748 Posts
2.5) ability to pronounce is a neurological thing. I'm not entirely sure about that. In particular, I was said by a language physician ( I'm not sure how you would call it in English) my tongue was in a low position compared to the average, and that caused difficulty in articulating well. It does not prevent anyone from saying any phoneme, of course, it just commends a bit exercising to be able to speak very clearly. | ||
SpoR
United States1542 Posts
On August 13 2011 06:21 Emporio wrote: Wait... wtf, you cut that flap yourself??? Why hasn't anyone else commented on this???? its kinda like how I can do that trick where you swallow some noodles and then they are chillin in the back somewhere and you can just cough em back up | ||
RogerX
New Zealand3180 Posts
On August 13 2011 12:09 sCfO20 wrote: Hmmm... I know i'll prolly get temp banned for this.. But this sounds like there's an alternative motive for this, as such a drastic action requires a much more logical explanation than simply a few syllables in a tongue that only a small part of the world speaks. Perhaps, she is a carpet muncher... in disguise??? (Please be good to me TL, I was just joking) God dammit I was beaten to it like 20 times. Lol I always think that saying "I'll get temp banned for this." or "I'll probably get banned for making this thread" will always or nearly make you get banned. Do not ever say this ever in your posts because saying it wont lower your chances of being banned. Anyway back to the topic, good point. Maybe she was lying but then again I don't really see why this is that much of a deal. | ||
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