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On August 30 2011 07:00 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2011 06:57 jinorazi wrote:On August 30 2011 06:54 jax1492 wrote:On August 30 2011 06:45 HyperionDreamer wrote: HuK technically should be considered a Korean, since he lives in their environment and performs their practice regimen. The comparison isn't "white dudes versus koreans," since place of birth has nothing to do genetically with playing Starcraft. The comparison is "foreign training methods" versus "Korean training methods". huk is not korean, he was not born in korea he is not of korean origin, he is not a korean citizen ... same applies to select vice versa...yet people tend to side him with the foreigners. serious facepalm when people call what country they represent depending on what server they play on.... I don't see how it is serious facepalm tbh. We all know its not the being korean that makes them so good, it is simply the practice regime over there. Lets say Huk wins he next MLG, what does that proof? That foreigners can win against koreans or that the korean practice regime works?
korean practice regime, their knowhow, environment, whatever it is, it works.
i'm just saying, you wouldn't call robinho italian because he plays in ac milan or c.ronaldo and messi spanish for playing in la liga.
yet, this is what people are doing.
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Do you know how hard it is to get a +70% win rate in any sense? Look at Flash...
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koreans at these tournaments are needed.. what a bunch of ballers.
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the white can never overtake korean from Starcraft Throne. Always has been, always will be.
White dudes are just not good enough for this game
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Kiwikaki came insanely close to guaranteed top 6 and possibly better. His series vs Puma was insanely close, and if he won, he would have won his group.
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sjow will get top 3 soon im calling it he looked pretty sick this mlg. Also drewbie will pull a jinro and pwn everyone after his training in the mvp house
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I think it is more about infrastructure and the way that Europe and the U.S. are so spaced out compared to Seoul, SK. I know this was brought up recently, but the more spread out everyone is, then harder it is to get together and talk strategy while you eat breakfast lunch and dinner. Just imagine every foreign team being withing 30-50 miles of each other, had blazing speed internet and there wasn't a social stigma around the game. We'd see a completely different scene.
Either way, I said that we would see a top 3 foreign player soon, someone is going to come out and crush some faces. Naniwa, Huk, maybe even IdrA if he gets his mind in the right spot. I haven't given up yet!
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On August 30 2011 07:23 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2011 07:00 Assirra wrote:On August 30 2011 06:57 jinorazi wrote:On August 30 2011 06:54 jax1492 wrote:On August 30 2011 06:45 HyperionDreamer wrote: HuK technically should be considered a Korean, since he lives in their environment and performs their practice regimen. The comparison isn't "white dudes versus koreans," since place of birth has nothing to do genetically with playing Starcraft. The comparison is "foreign training methods" versus "Korean training methods". huk is not korean, he was not born in korea he is not of korean origin, he is not a korean citizen ... same applies to select vice versa...yet people tend to side him with the foreigners. serious facepalm when people call what country they represent depending on what server they play on.... I don't see how it is serious facepalm tbh. We all know its not the being korean that makes them so good, it is simply the practice regime over there. Lets say Huk wins he next MLG, what does that proof? That foreigners can win against koreans or that the korean practice regime works? korean practice regime, their knowhow, environment, whatever it is, it works. i'm just saying, you wouldn't call robinho italian because he plays in ac milan or c.ronaldo and messi spanish for playing in la liga. yet, this is what people are doing. Ppl are also using koreans that are outside korea (aka select) and count them as foreigners. either you make the rules fair or there are no rules and everyone can yell what they want so there is chaos.
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Why do people keep mentioning Idra as some kind of top foreigner that we can expect to win soon? When was the last time he didnt disappoint? Its becoming so painfully obvious that no foreigner except huk (guess why?) stands a snowballs chance against koreans. sure there are lots of foreigners who can take games and even sets against koreans but not with consistency.
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nothing which surprises me =)
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Stop looking at individual players and trying to decide whether they are "Korean" or "foreign".
The distinction should be based on the two separate scenes. You have a Korean scene and a foreigner scene. If someone is living and training in Korea, that person is part of the Korean scene, regardless of nationality. The same applies to the foreign scene. For example, SeleCT is Korean, but he is living in NA and mostly training with other NA pros, so I consider him to be part of the foreign scene. Huk, on the other hand, is most definitely a foreigner by definition, but at this point he represents the Korean scene.
Things start to get a little mucky when people like Naniwa, Thorzain, Sase, etc move to Korea to train, but if they stay there long enough I'd consider lumping them into the Korean scene as well.
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You have to take into consideration the level of quality korean players at Raleigh compared to the other MLGs. Clearly there were more elite koreans in the previous MLGs. Take out shit players like Trickster and take a look at the numbers again. There wasnt any progress. If anything it got even worse because at least Idra medaled at Columbus with a 4th place finish.
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On August 30 2011 08:05 gozima wrote: Stop looking at individual players and trying to decide whether they are "Korean" or "foreign".
The distinction should be based on the two separate scenes. You have a Korean scene and a foreigner scene. If someone is living and training in Korea, that person is part of the Korean scene, regardless of nationality. The same applies to the foreign scene. For example, SeleCT is Korean, but he is living in NA and mostly training with other NA pros, so I consider him to be part of the foreign scene. Huk, on the other hand, is most definitely a foreigner by definition, but at this point he represents the Korean scene.
Things start to get a little mucky when people like Naniwa, Thorzain, Sase, etc move to Korea to train, but if they stay there long enough I'd consider lumping them into the Korean scene as well.
You would think most people would realize this simple logic. They blindly believe what they want to believe because it suits them. Nevermind that the actual players themselves clearly say what they are. Like Huk saying that he's a korean player but people refuse to accept this.
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You have to look at HuK, and Naniwa, Naniwa is just going to korea and showed tons of potential in MLG, and HuK even while travelling something like twice around the world in the last month placed 7th twice, and thats because every korean happens to be Terran as always, and eventually a protoss is going to lose to a terran, just by 1-1-1 alone if nothing else. The koreans are boring to watch tbh, and are nothing special imo, they get there on hardwork though and you have to admire them for that, but look at the foreginers like HuK and Naniwa, who put in so much time for practice and it shows when they play. HuK will win gsl this year, no doubt in my mind. And i guarentee at next mlg HuK, nani, incontrol, Idra, demuslim, and tyler. They will all place very high, just because of their work effort. Incontrol gets way too much crap talked about him when he said before mlg even started on his twitter that he was on a tilt even on ladder, and you have to give the eg house a chance and other foreigners more time, drewbie will also do fairly well im certain after his return
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On August 30 2011 01:44 jj33 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2011 01:31 Shiori wrote:On August 30 2011 01:29 Zalitara wrote: Is it just me or are a lot of people trying to squeeze as many foreigners in as they can with these weird rules? To be korean you must be korean and live in korea, to be a foreigner you just have to be born anywhere but Korea and you can practise in Korea. Don't really care, but it seems weird, and like a way to make the foreign results look better. yeah it's a doublestandard and inconsistent. you can't be like 'a player is of a nationality if he was born there and trains there' and then turn around and call huk a foreigner when he doesn't fit your own criteria. exactly.. it's a double standard, apparently some people need to have it spelled out for them.
Okay, I think I see how you're viewing it differently than everyone else. Huk fits his classification as a foreigner because Huk is not Korean born. In order to be KR, by OP's definition, you must be BOTH born in Korea and currently training there.
What the OP is saying is that two things are needed to be classed as a Korean:
1. You must be born in Korea 2. You must be training in Korea
Anybody who has both these things is Korean. Anyone has just one, or zero, of those two is classed as foreigner.
So: 1+2 = KR Just #1 = Foreigner Just #2 = Foreigner Neither #1 or #2 = Foreigner
HuK therefore in a foreigner. He meets category 2, but not category one. Since he only meets one of the two requirements he falls into the class of foreigner, since you need both to be classed as Korean.
Select is also a foreigner. He meets category 1, but not category two. Since he only meets one of the two requirements and both are needed to be classed Korean, he is considered a foreigner.
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On August 30 2011 08:12 jyLee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2011 08:05 gozima wrote: Stop looking at individual players and trying to decide whether they are "Korean" or "foreign".
The distinction should be based on the two separate scenes. You have a Korean scene and a foreigner scene. If someone is living and training in Korea, that person is part of the Korean scene, regardless of nationality. The same applies to the foreign scene. For example, SeleCT is Korean, but he is living in NA and mostly training with other NA pros, so I consider him to be part of the foreign scene. Huk, on the other hand, is most definitely a foreigner by definition, but at this point he represents the Korean scene.
Things start to get a little mucky when people like Naniwa, Thorzain, Sase, etc move to Korea to train, but if they stay there long enough I'd consider lumping them into the Korean scene as well. You would think most people would realize this simple logic. They blindly believe what they want to believe because it suits them. Nevermind that the actual players themselves clearly say what they are. Like Huk saying that he's a korean player but people refuse to accept this. Haha, Huk really said that? Well that kinda destroys a lot of opinions here.
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I think that the whole point of this thread is to compare figures about foreigners stats vs koreans before and after the mlg exchange program. Arguing whether to call foreigners in Korea koreans or not has no point imo. The fact is that what this stats are showing is that Korean practice regime works, and is not just that only koreans are good at this game. At least HuK is kinda showing that.
Sorry for bad grammar
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Korea and Sweden are the two best countries at Starcraft.
Probably genetics at work...
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We already know that top foreigners can beat A/B/mid S Koreans. If Huk maintains his current skill level he most likely will place top 3 sooner rather than later, and it won't have any huge implications. Despite attempts to frame Huk as the underdog against Moon just because of his nationality, I think most people saw Dreamhack for what it was: a code S player winning. Not a hugely unexpected outcome.
Now if someone like Incontrol or Moonan got top 3, that would be quite interesting.
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huk fighting !!! it hink we will all dow ell ^^
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