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On February 18 2012 06:05 cristo1122 wrote: i prefer the current proleague format focuses on having a balanced team rather than one player who just rolls face
This. I am kinda sad to see most people prefer the AK format . I wish GSTL would switch between 4 1v1 + ace match then next season of gstl would be winners league. Like BW does proleague and winners league. Sigh I can only dream.
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I think it's cool for a player to "stay in" more exciting in my opinion. On the other hand, with the NASL teamleague format you get to see a wider variety of players.
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I'm a big fan of the Proleague format.
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I'm happy that both exist! Seeing desperate team versus team fights a la GSL is quite possibly the most fun kind of tournament in existence, but proleague is nice too, especially since we get to see 2v2 matches, and it works well for the...
Collegiate Starleague! =)
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On February 20 2012 12:56 red4ce wrote: All-kill style because
1) SC2 is about the superstars. People don't show up to the GOM studio to watch IM or Prime. They show up to watch Nestea, MVP and Marineking. Assuming the teams are taking the tournament seriously (admittedly not a safe assumption given past GSTL's) the all-kill format ensures the best players play at least once and probably more.
2) It's better for hype. Think of all the players who became famous from teamleagues. DRG, MMA, Losira, Sage, Tails, etc. None of this would have been possible without the chance to get multiple kills.
3) Fewer mirrors. In an ideal world all maps would be balanced and this wouldn't be an issue. Too bad it doesn't work like that in reality. The current BW proleague is filled with way too many mirrors because this season's map pool isn't as balanced as it could be. If lineups are preset, teams will send out a player of whichever race is OP on that particular map, creating lots of mirror matchups, and as we all know ZvZ and PvP suck.
4. More strategic. Proleague format is just a matter of picking a player on your team and having him prepare as much as he can for that specific map. All the strategy making happens before the game and behind the scenes. With all-kill format we get to dissect the minds of the coaches as the series unfolds and see just how well they adapt to unpredictable circumstances.
The main argument against all-kill format is that it allows a player to single handedly win everything for their team, thus taking the "team" out of teamleague. I do not feel this is a problem in SC2. Winner's league was disliked in BW because Flash, Bisu and Jaedong were so good there wasn't any point for non-fans of KT, Oz or SKT to watch. Nobody has reached that sort of unstoppable level in SC2, not yet anyways. Sure we still have 5-0 or 5-1 stompings, but I think that's mostly due to the fact that there are teams that just aren't very good like Zenex, TSL and Hoseo. Even with a proleague format they'd still get blown out of the water.
100% agree with what you said about the All-Kill format, though I would like to see Proleague format used as well to add more diversity to team leagues e.g like BW one round Proleague format another round All-Kill format
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22271 Posts
I am curious what people think of the IPLTAC2 and NASTL so far. Which league has shown better, more exciting series? Could it be because of the format and not only because of the teams involved?
So far the IPLTAC2 has been way more interesting and exciting than the NASTL for me.
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I feel like if you'd put the word "Proleague" or even "similar to Proleague" on the second option, it would be winning.
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I love the suprise aspect of the Gstl format, where you won't know who the new player is going to be. But, i also feel pre set matches can make a more interesting matchup, this also avoids the possibilty of 4 mirror matchups in a row, that is obviously a plus.
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I always think that for sc2 to grow we need to focus more in the teams, with all kill forma we don't get that... at least for me.. I'd prefer PL format with ace match ( not pre set) ..
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All kill formats are good for watching a final.
Proleague formats are great for watching for up and comers. Proleague formats also feel more fair "overall" by preventing teams from simply leaning on 1-2 players to make an all-kill.
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Old PL format with the ace match. All-kill format gets really dull after a while. I mean it was great to see Jaedong Oz stomp faces in Winners League but for a regular season I'd rather see a format where the overall best team wins and not the one who just happens to have DRG.
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Lord_J
Kenya1085 Posts
On February 20 2012 16:40 lorkac wrote: Proleague formats are great for watching for up and comers. Proleague formats also feel more fair "overall" by preventing teams from simply leaning on 1-2 players to make an all-kill.
I don't understand this logic. In proleague formats there are less matches, and therefore less opportunities for up and comers to get fielded at all. Just look at the NASTL lineups so far: each team is basically just fielding a roster of their top 4 players every match. You don't get to see anything like Tails beating MVP and NesTea, or less-known players like Sage, BboongBboong, and Taeja coming out of obscurity to all kill established teams, or MVP_finale beating FXO's top three players--I could go on for paragraphs about all the examples of up and coming players having a chance to shine under the all-kill formats. I can't think of a single example of them having that chance under a proleague format in SC2.
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Pro-league format please!
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Proleague format seems to me as its vastly superior. I will concede that the pokemon/all-kill format is exiting, but frankly it doesn't feel like much of a team format to me. I also dislike that the early matches tend to feel somewhat meaningless since the people that actually decide the matches are the aces. With pro league format, you need more than one good player to win, you get to see more players and the best TEAM wins.
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On February 20 2012 16:48 Lord_J wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 16:40 lorkac wrote: Proleague formats are great for watching for up and comers. Proleague formats also feel more fair "overall" by preventing teams from simply leaning on 1-2 players to make an all-kill. I don't understand this logic. In proleague formats there are less matches, and therefore less opportunities for up and comers to get fielded at all. Just look at the NASTL lineups so far: each team is basically just fielding a roster of their top 4 players every match. You don't get to see anything like Tails beating MVP and NesTea, or less-known players like Sage, BboongBboong, and Taeja coming out of obscurity to all kill established teams, or MVP_finale beating FXO's top three players--I could go on for paragraphs about all the examples of up and coming players having a chance to shine under the all-kill formats. I can't think of a single example of them having that chance under a proleague format in SC2.
No matter the format--teams will field their best players at all times unless it is pool play. In an elimination format you'll never have players take the chance to not field their best guys. In a pool format teams who are "ahead" pulls back and fields their less experienced players to improve the team as a whole. What's great about a proleague is that it allows for a team who is fielding their weaker players to not have them simply all killed by Flash or DRG. And since the success of their team does not rest solely on their shoulders. It gives the less experienced players the breathing room to do well without *having* to do a reverse all-kill.
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On February 20 2012 12:56 red4ce wrote: All-kill style because
1) SC2 is about the superstars. People don't show up to the GOM studio to watch IM or Prime. They show up to watch Nestea, MVP and Marineking. Assuming the teams are taking the tournament seriously (admittedly not a safe assumption given past GSTL's) the all-kill format ensures the best players play at least once and probably more.
2) It's better for hype. Think of all the players who became famous from teamleagues. DRG, MMA, Losira, Sage, Tails, etc. None of this would have been possible without the chance to get multiple kills.
3) Fewer mirrors. In an ideal world all maps would be balanced and this wouldn't be an issue. Too bad it doesn't work like that in reality. The current BW proleague is filled with way too many mirrors because this season's map pool isn't as balanced as it could be. If lineups are preset, teams will send out a player of whichever race is OP on that particular map, creating lots of mirror matchups, and as we all know ZvZ and PvP suck.
4. More strategic. Proleague format is just a matter of picking a player on your team and having him prepare as much as he can for that specific map. All the strategy making happens before the game and behind the scenes. With all-kill format we get to dissect the minds of the coaches as the series unfolds and see just how well they adapt to unpredictable circumstances.
The main argument against all-kill format is that it allows a player to single handedly win everything for their team, thus taking the "team" out of teamleague. I do not feel this is a problem in SC2. Winner's league was disliked in BW because Flash, Bisu and Jaedong were so good there wasn't any point for non-fans of KT, Oz or SKT to watch. Nobody has reached that sort of unstoppable level in SC2, not yet anyways. Sure we still have 5-0 or 5-1 stompings, but I think that's mostly due to the fact that there are teams that just aren't very good like Zenex, TSL and Hoseo. Even with a proleague format they'd still get blown out of the water. I disagree 1. Superstars will still be seeded in Proleague format. Yes the best players will be played at least once. Nestea hardly has to come out cuz mvp has already done the task in WL. But in PL both of them will be played out. If you want to see more of them, ace match can serve it.
2. They can still become famous, as long as they win. I dont think DRG/MMA would have trouble in rising to stardom if it's not for GSTL
3. Kinda agree with this one. Still the current map pool are fairly balance. If maps like, say, Calm are removed. I dont think we may see that many mirrors (and who doesnt like TvT anyway )
4. It's not like all matchups are determined beforehand like NASTL. Players will not acknowledge their opponents until coming to the venue. Beside, mapseeding will add more strategic aspect to teamplay and coaching, rather than adapting. Another obvious thing is that the game will more likely to be good, as the players practice only for some specific maps
Whats more ? we will see a true team competition where DRG cannot multikill his way to the title. We're likely to see a least 5 players in a bo9 instead of one. Weak teams surely have better chance (imagine mvp fielding DRG first every single game in WL) There should be enough reasons for BW teamleague to embrace proleague primarily.
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Canada8025 Posts
On February 20 2012 16:31 DashedHopes wrote: I love the suprise aspect of the Gstl format, where you won't know who the new player is going to be. But, i also feel pre set matches can make a more interesting matchup, this also avoids the possibilty of 4 mirror matchups in a row, that is obviously a plus. Proleague format does not necessitate that players and matchups are announced beforehand. Currently in BW, only map order is known before each series. Coaches pick the players they plan on sending during the intermission between games.
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all kill provides for a lot more strategy, since maps can't be re-used (or players of course) that's pretty cool
all kills can be exciting, but terribly boring at the same time, when one team runs out of good players... Also seems to favor teams with large rosters, whereas NASTL is more of an equal chance
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51136 Posts
why not have the best of both worlds ala dream league.
5 games blind entry winner of blind entry games play in winners league format until no players left for each team.
example; eg vs team liquid idra > hero demuslim < ret lzgamer < jinro puma > haypro jyp < tlo (players left are idra, ret, jinro and puma) idra < ret puma > ret puma > jinro puma < tlo
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Definitely Proleague format (best with Bo7 like it was a season or so ago) with winners league every now and then as a novelty. It's far more fun to watch a whole team come together instead of just relying on a few players. Of course Proleague Bo7 actually needs at least 6 players to be fielded, but this allows for up and coming players to play and gain competitive experience. It also allows teams with a truly strong lineup to dominate.
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