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I was a smoker some time ago + Show Spoiler +and then I got an arrow to the knee. , was smoking for 5 years and now is 4 years since i quit. There can be no doubts about smoking. Cigarettes is a drug, very very addictive one. Cigarettes kill. Smoking hurts people around you.
Every "If"s and "but"'s should not be taken in concideration. Smoking should be denied by law.
It's very neat and easy when you start (except for the first couple of cigs, the're awful). But then after years of smoking, countless euros spent on those, you just sit down, take a cigarette and start to think: "why am i doing it?". You try to quit, and then you realize that you cant. So you continue, but then you notice that getting a long walk is hard and you take pauses to sit down and take a breath. And then your smoker friend starts coghing blood. And so on.
Noone except smoker himself can persuade him to stop, but government may and have to restrict influence of smoking to people that don't want to kill themselves that way.
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On March 07 2012 00:27 naggerNZ wrote: Anyone raising second hand smoke as an excuse to vilify smokers is incredibly obtuse. Studies of the effects of passive smoking are notoriously inconclusive, and unless you're living full time with someone who smokes indoors, you are unlikely to be exposed to anything remotely close to a health affecting amount of carcinogens. Open wood-fires such as braziers, campfires or open fireplaces expose you to far more carcinogens than living with a smoker.
Complaining about passive smoking from people smoking in public places is like complaining about exposure to radiation because the person next to you on the bus is wearing a watch with a luminescent face.
People will quite readily attribute any case of lung cancer in a non-smoker with second hand smoke but the reality of it is something like 10-15 out of every 1000 people will develop lung cancer regardless of whether they are a non-smoker, smoker or live with a smoker.
Apart from any possible health issues, have you considered that having to breathe in someone else's smoke can just be annoying for someone. Personally, my mother gets a bad headache if she breathes in smoke even if it is for 30 seconds. Besides, I know alot of people that think it smells disgusting.
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On March 07 2012 00:09 AlphaWhale wrote: Sydney is trying to ban it everywhere, slowly but surely. I smoke but I try to not be obnoxious about it. I will leap to the other side of the street if there's a baby either in or out of the womb nearby. But to the paragons of justice who cry from rooftops about the dangers of second hand smoke. If you put half as much effort into a real social problem you might actually get something done.
Why is it necessary to point out that smoking is negative? It's a well known fact. People still choose to partake in it. Alcohol is negative, same case scenario. And it's not like alcohol has never hurt anybody, or the people around them... right?
1. How is secondhand smoke not a real social problem? It even has medical and practical costs. I choke on cigarette smoke, and people who don't smoke can develop health problems simply by virtue of constantly being around those who choose to smoke.
2. It's necessary to educate people of the dangers of smoking so that they can make informed decisions on whether or not they want to start and continue smoking. That seems to be painfully straightforward...
3. Talking about alcohol is just changing the subject. That can be dangerous too, but it doesn't change the fact that smoking is harmful as well.
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On March 07 2012 00:29 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 22:27 Rassy wrote: Both are (predominantly, in the case of obesity) self-choice issues
I dont know about obesity but smoking is definatly not 100% a self-choice. There are manny people who would love to quit smoking but who are somehow unable to because the adiction is to strong for them.
Here in the netherlands they did the same things to combat obesity as they did to combat smoking. Educational advertisements on tv and newspapers, smoking did get alot more attention though, campaigns against obesity are rare Beside that smoking has been banned from public and work places and taxes on it are increasing all the time. Smoking is 100% a self-choice unless someone chained you and forced a smoke in your mouth over and over. If people want to eat and be fat, that's their choice. If people want to smoke, that's their choice. Smoking annoys others tho, obesity doesn't.
Talking on your cellphone annoys others. Whistling annoys others. Threads like these are evidence that there are plenty of people who take personal offense at the existence of fat people.
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and this is why society we live in is a joke, why cant everyone just let eveyone else live how they want instead of being douchebags sayin o u shuldnt do this and that?-_-
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On March 07 2012 00:29 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 22:27 Rassy wrote: Both are (predominantly, in the case of obesity) self-choice issues
I dont know about obesity but smoking is definatly not 100% a self-choice. There are manny people who would love to quit smoking but who are somehow unable to because the adiction is to strong for them.
Here in the netherlands they did the same things to combat obesity as they did to combat smoking. Educational advertisements on tv and newspapers, smoking did get alot more attention though, campaigns against obesity are rare Beside that smoking has been banned from public and work places and taxes on it are increasing all the time. Smoking is 100% a self-choice unless someone chained you and forced a smoke in your mouth over and over. If people want to eat and be fat, that's their choice. If people want to smoke, that's their choice. Smoking annoys others tho, obesity doesn't.
I think children getting raised by their parents with a bad diet ( and thus get obese very early ) don't really have a choice in the matter though.
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On March 07 2012 00:31 naggerNZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 00:29 JackDino wrote:On March 06 2012 22:27 Rassy wrote: Both are (predominantly, in the case of obesity) self-choice issues
I dont know about obesity but smoking is definatly not 100% a self-choice. There are manny people who would love to quit smoking but who are somehow unable to because the adiction is to strong for them.
Here in the netherlands they did the same things to combat obesity as they did to combat smoking. Educational advertisements on tv and newspapers, smoking did get alot more attention though, campaigns against obesity are rare Beside that smoking has been banned from public and work places and taxes on it are increasing all the time. Smoking is 100% a self-choice unless someone chained you and forced a smoke in your mouth over and over. If people want to eat and be fat, that's their choice. If people want to smoke, that's their choice. Smoking annoys others tho, obesity doesn't. Talking on your cellphone annoys others. Whistling annoys others. Threads like these are evidence that there are plenty of people who take personal offense at the existence of fat people.
And people talking on their cellphone ( in certain public situations) are also thought of as selfish by many people, and are sometimes asked to leave and not bother anyone with their talking. Just because there are other ways of being selfish doesn't mean one particular way is suddenly okay.
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On March 07 2012 00:31 naggerNZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 00:29 JackDino wrote:On March 06 2012 22:27 Rassy wrote: Both are (predominantly, in the case of obesity) self-choice issues
I dont know about obesity but smoking is definatly not 100% a self-choice. There are manny people who would love to quit smoking but who are somehow unable to because the adiction is to strong for them.
Here in the netherlands they did the same things to combat obesity as they did to combat smoking. Educational advertisements on tv and newspapers, smoking did get alot more attention though, campaigns against obesity are rare Beside that smoking has been banned from public and work places and taxes on it are increasing all the time. Smoking is 100% a self-choice unless someone chained you and forced a smoke in your mouth over and over. If people want to eat and be fat, that's their choice. If people want to smoke, that's their choice. Smoking annoys others tho, obesity doesn't. Talking on your cellphone annoys others. Whistling annoys others. Threads like these are evidence that there are plenty of people who take personal offense at the existence of fat people.
Seriously? Those are your analogies to cancerous drugs and being unhealthy?
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On March 07 2012 00:31 naggerNZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 00:29 JackDino wrote:On March 06 2012 22:27 Rassy wrote: Both are (predominantly, in the case of obesity) self-choice issues
I dont know about obesity but smoking is definatly not 100% a self-choice. There are manny people who would love to quit smoking but who are somehow unable to because the adiction is to strong for them.
Here in the netherlands they did the same things to combat obesity as they did to combat smoking. Educational advertisements on tv and newspapers, smoking did get alot more attention though, campaigns against obesity are rare Beside that smoking has been banned from public and work places and taxes on it are increasing all the time. Smoking is 100% a self-choice unless someone chained you and forced a smoke in your mouth over and over. If people want to eat and be fat, that's their choice. If people want to smoke, that's their choice. Smoking annoys others tho, obesity doesn't. Talking on your cellphone annoys others. Whistling annoys others. Threads like these are evidence that there are plenty of people who take personal offense at the existence of fat people. It's not personal offense. It's physically damaging to breathe in someone else's smoke. Period.
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On March 07 2012 00:31 peppilepew wrote: and this is why society we live in is a joke, why cant everyone just let eveyone else live how they want instead of being douchebags sayin o u shuldnt do this and that?-_-
I think if cigarettes affected no one but the user, there would be far fewer people concerned.
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Obesity has a hell of a lot to do with genetics and metabolism. We really seem to enjoy pinning the responsibility on the obese people themselves, but everyone knows a few people who are very active and eat decently and yet seem to never be able to completely shed that extra weight.
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On March 07 2012 00:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 00:31 naggerNZ wrote:On March 07 2012 00:29 JackDino wrote:On March 06 2012 22:27 Rassy wrote: Both are (predominantly, in the case of obesity) self-choice issues
I dont know about obesity but smoking is definatly not 100% a self-choice. There are manny people who would love to quit smoking but who are somehow unable to because the adiction is to strong for them.
Here in the netherlands they did the same things to combat obesity as they did to combat smoking. Educational advertisements on tv and newspapers, smoking did get alot more attention though, campaigns against obesity are rare Beside that smoking has been banned from public and work places and taxes on it are increasing all the time. Smoking is 100% a self-choice unless someone chained you and forced a smoke in your mouth over and over. If people want to eat and be fat, that's their choice. If people want to smoke, that's their choice. Smoking annoys others tho, obesity doesn't. Talking on your cellphone annoys others. Whistling annoys others. Threads like these are evidence that there are plenty of people who take personal offense at the existence of fat people. Seriously? Those are your analogies to cancerous drugs and being unhealthy?
"We reviewed the toxicologic, clinical, and epidemiologic evidence on the health effects of environmental tobacco smoke (ETS). For each type of exposure to environmental tobacco smoke we have sought articles in the English language reporting studies of effects on human health. Formal criteria that stressed study design, quality of execution and generalizability of results were used to select 116 scientifically admissible reports from over 2,900 articles. We concluded that: (a) there is strong evidence of an association between residential exposure to environmental tobacco smoke and both respiratory illness and reduction of lung function, and also between maternal smoking and reduced birth weight; (b) the weight of evidence is compatible with an association between active maternal smoking during pregnancy and increased infant mortality, and also between residential exposure to environmental tobacco smoke (primarily spousal smoking) and the risk of lung cancer; (c) there is evidence consistent with a relationship between exposure to environmental tobacco smoke in the workplace and respiratory symptoms, (d) the evidence is insufficient to implicate residential exposure to environmental tobacco smoke in relation to other forms of malignant disease or congenital malformations; (e) there is no evidence in the literature of an association between nonresidential exposure to environmental tobacco smoke and any form of cancer. Further studies are required to address the effects of exposure to environmental tobacco smoke, especially nonresidential exposure, in carcinogenesis and as a risk factor for atherosclerosis. Further work is also needed to improve measurement of exposure in such studies and to assess the importance of confounding factors." Department of Epidemiology and Biostatistics, Faculty of Medicine, McGill University.
I've yet to see any evidence that passive smoking causes cancer, or that general exposure to tobacco smoke in public causes health problems. I don't need gripping analogies. If you have a reputable study with empirical evidence that it does, please link it to me.
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On March 07 2012 00:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 00:31 naggerNZ wrote:On March 07 2012 00:29 JackDino wrote:On March 06 2012 22:27 Rassy wrote: Both are (predominantly, in the case of obesity) self-choice issues
I dont know about obesity but smoking is definatly not 100% a self-choice. There are manny people who would love to quit smoking but who are somehow unable to because the adiction is to strong for them.
Here in the netherlands they did the same things to combat obesity as they did to combat smoking. Educational advertisements on tv and newspapers, smoking did get alot more attention though, campaigns against obesity are rare Beside that smoking has been banned from public and work places and taxes on it are increasing all the time. Smoking is 100% a self-choice unless someone chained you and forced a smoke in your mouth over and over. If people want to eat and be fat, that's their choice. If people want to smoke, that's their choice. Smoking annoys others tho, obesity doesn't. Talking on your cellphone annoys others. Whistling annoys others. Threads like these are evidence that there are plenty of people who take personal offense at the existence of fat people. Seriously? Those are your analogies to cancerous drugs and being unhealthy? If I'm sitting on a bench in a park and someone sits down next to me and start screaming in their cellphone about annoying shit, what do I do? I leave. He is allowed to sit there and talk, but it pisses me off, so I switch my location. What can you do in a similar situation with a smoker? Oh, how about the exact same thing?
The cause of the situations might be different, the solution is the same.
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On March 07 2012 00:37 XxMulexX wrote: Obesity has a hell of a lot to do with genetics and metabolism. We really seem to enjoy pinning the responsibility on the obese people themselves, but everyone knows a few people who are very active and eat decently and yet seem to never be able to completely shed that extra weight.
Sorry but that is complete bullshit, it is just an excuse for fat people that are trying to lose weight, but keep giving in to eating the food they want. If you are on a nutritionally perfect diet and exercise regularly and efficiently on top of that, you will not be fat.
And don't blame it on some medical condition either because the people that get fat through a condition or the medicines they have to take for said condition are really too few in number to be of any significance.
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On March 07 2012 00:42 solidbebe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 00:37 XxMulexX wrote: Obesity has a hell of a lot to do with genetics and metabolism. We really seem to enjoy pinning the responsibility on the obese people themselves, but everyone knows a few people who are very active and eat decently and yet seem to never be able to completely shed that extra weight. Sorry but that is complete bullshit, it is just an excuse for fat people that are trying to lose weight, but keep giving in to eating the food they want. If you are on a nutritionally perfect diet and exercise regularly and efficiently on top of that, you will not be fat. And don't blame it on some medical condition either because the people that get fat through a condition or the medicines they have to take for said condition are really too few in number to be of any significance.
There are countless medical studies that have found genetic and biological markers of pre-disposition to obesity, and they're not uncommon by any means.
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On March 07 2012 00:44 naggerNZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 00:42 solidbebe wrote:On March 07 2012 00:37 XxMulexX wrote: Obesity has a hell of a lot to do with genetics and metabolism. We really seem to enjoy pinning the responsibility on the obese people themselves, but everyone knows a few people who are very active and eat decently and yet seem to never be able to completely shed that extra weight. Sorry but that is complete bullshit, it is just an excuse for fat people that are trying to lose weight, but keep giving in to eating the food they want. If you are on a nutritionally perfect diet and exercise regularly and efficiently on top of that, you will not be fat. And don't blame it on some medical condition either because the people that get fat through a condition or the medicines they have to take for said condition are really too few in number to be of any significance. There are countless medical studies that have found genetic and biological markers of pre-disposition to obesity, and they're not uncommon by any means.
Yes great, you're more likely to get obese or you get obese faster when you have a bad diet and you don't exercise. But your genetics can't do shit to you if you have a nutritionally perfect diet and regularly exercise on top of that.
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it always brings a huge smile to my face when ex-smokers get completely 100% anti smoking and whine about second hand smoking while walking outside in a medium or big city. It somehow feels so stupid, with fine dust and the hundreds of other pollutions in the air. Guess it has something to do with the attitude of "wow look at me i stopped smoking now i have to right to demonise my former peers". So to all of them congrats on kicking that habit and do what ever you need to do to feel good about yourself.
@Tobberoth, lighten up dude, he seems like one of the people who grinds your gears. try reading the anti smoking post and substitute smoker by obese and smoking by eating. Guaranteed laughs.
Btw on obese people not being bad for your health, simple operations take longer and with a higher risk on complications thus taking up more and longer places for people who do eat healthy and need some unrelated health care but being put on waiting list cus fatty's procedure took an hour instead of the normal 20 min and has to stay overnight out of fear for complications. I know far fetched, but worth a moment of thought with rising health care costs and crises etc.
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On March 07 2012 00:46 solidbebe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 00:44 naggerNZ wrote:On March 07 2012 00:42 solidbebe wrote:On March 07 2012 00:37 XxMulexX wrote: Obesity has a hell of a lot to do with genetics and metabolism. We really seem to enjoy pinning the responsibility on the obese people themselves, but everyone knows a few people who are very active and eat decently and yet seem to never be able to completely shed that extra weight. Sorry but that is complete bullshit, it is just an excuse for fat people that are trying to lose weight, but keep giving in to eating the food they want. If you are on a nutritionally perfect diet and exercise regularly and efficiently on top of that, you will not be fat. And don't blame it on some medical condition either because the people that get fat through a condition or the medicines they have to take for said condition are really too few in number to be of any significance. There are countless medical studies that have found genetic and biological markers of pre-disposition to obesity, and they're not uncommon by any means. Yes great, you're more likely to get obese or you get obese faster when you have a bad diet and you don't exercise. But your genetics can't do shit to you if you have a nutritionally perfect diet and regularly exercise on top of that.
Nutritionally perfect diet? Are you actually serious? Almost no one has a nutritionally perfect diet.
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On March 07 2012 00:46 henkel wrote: it always brings a huge smile to my face when ex-smokers get completely 100% anti smoking and whine about second hand smoking while walking outside in a medium or big city. It somehow feels so stupid, with fine dust and the hundreds of other pollutions in the air. Guess it has something to do with the attitude of "wow look at me i stopped smoking now i have to right to demonise my former peers". So to all of them congrats on kicking that habit and do what ever you need to do to feel good about yourself.
Maybe they get that way because, having seen both sides, they decided that smoking is pretty pointless and self destructive?
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On March 07 2012 00:52 visual77 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 00:46 henkel wrote: it always brings a huge smile to my face when ex-smokers get completely 100% anti smoking and whine about second hand smoking while walking outside in a medium or big city. It somehow feels so stupid, with fine dust and the hundreds of other pollutions in the air. Guess it has something to do with the attitude of "wow look at me i stopped smoking now i have to right to demonise my former peers". So to all of them congrats on kicking that habit and do what ever you need to do to feel good about yourself.
Maybe they get that way because, having seen both sides, they decided that smoking is pretty pointless and self destructive?
What side have they seen that smokers haven't? I wasn't born with a cigarette in my mouth.
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On March 07 2012 00:52 visual77 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 00:46 henkel wrote: it always brings a huge smile to my face when ex-smokers get completely 100% anti smoking and whine about second hand smoking while walking outside in a medium or big city. It somehow feels so stupid, with fine dust and the hundreds of other pollutions in the air. Guess it has something to do with the attitude of "wow look at me i stopped smoking now i have to right to demonise my former peers". So to all of them congrats on kicking that habit and do what ever you need to do to feel good about yourself.
Maybe they get that way because, having seen both sides, they decided that smoking is pretty pointless and self destructive? Because smokers were born smokers? Anyone who has smoked has obviously seen both sides.
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