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Do not derail the thread with discussions about other topics like global warming. |
On March 14 2012 19:12 jonaada wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 15:48 tetrismaan wrote: In Denmark it is free, and we even get 1000$ each month from the government, with the chance of making a student-rent for 650$ each month with 1% interest. Denmark also has the highest taxes in the world, so it evens out after you graduate. But that gives everyone a good chance to start their education which they can then use, later, to earn some money which they wouldn´t have been able to earn otherwise. Nah, depends on how you calculate but if you go by mean income taxes as a percentage of income by country, a lot of countries have higher taxes than Denmark, for example Sweden, Finland, Belgium, Germany and France.
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On March 14 2012 19:51 Boonbag wrote: France public university is about 500 euros / year That's only for administrative purpose, and if your parent earn below a certain threshold (not sure how much) You don't have to pay at all
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On March 14 2012 20:01 kaiz0ku wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 18:17 Filter wrote:On March 14 2012 18:05 kaiz0ku wrote: I am shocked , by some of the opinions in here.. Education , and by that i mean knowledge & a Professor to hammer it into your brain should be 100% Free. If you are a 60 year old man , deciding to be a doctor , you should be able to do it without paying 1 cent.
Here in poor Greece education in 100% free.(that includes books ofc) From age 3 - to whatever the f*** you want. We also have privet schools & Unis but they are considered a joke and a big laugh.
We get discounts for everything , from public transportation to Cinema tickets.
There are some occasions ,gov tried to "Earn" money from unis , and that without even making us pay something , just by some weird ways like "Sponsoring" some actions of the university or things like that , but the Greek mentality on the subject didn't allow it. The only thing we have to pay OVER THE 22-24 years of education(including university) is 2 $ for a plastic card(and that is optional) You also get paid if you are a good student etc.
People...srsly.... L2 Riot
Greece isn't really a good example of "Free" education being towards the benefit for the country and the people involved. Education shouldn't be free, the high prices in the states are too much but it really doesn't need to be free. Countries like the US are feeling the crunch of a world based on Education. It's nearly impossible to earn a decent living as a dockworker, factory worker whatever and everybody wants to make 100k/year as an engineer. Education now is seen as a requirement to have a good life and this leads to a lack of jobs where too many people have educated themselves, and to many jobs with reduced pay because so many people can do it. This drives down the amount people are paid in "lower quality" jobs because even college educated jobs are paying less, and the menial jobs, or trades, are paying less and being filled by people with college educations not necessarily the best people for the job. I bet 100% of the people if they got polled in high school would rather be an engineer than a welder and that's becoming a big big problem. The economy is now much more top heavy and instead of 10% of the people having college educations it's going to be over 50%+ sometime in the future, that simply can't work and probably won't. There's only so many people to design the bridge, some have to build it.*Statistics are not accurate/looked up just based on trends in the last 4 or 5 decades. Edit: And paying 5-10k a year for a college Education shouldn't be a big deal for anybody. If you're good enough to "deserve" school then you can work a job for 20 hours a week to pay for it, even if the jobs flipping burgers. I understand what you are saying.. but that is now exactly how it works. If you want to be an engineer , it doesn't mean you are allowed to study it. Once you reach the end of highschool , we have the final exams. In greece the grades you get from your hichschool teachers , or the grades you have aquaired during the years count as nothing. For 2-3 weeks Every person in greece that wants to be tested ( in order to study) sits down at the exact same time , giving the exact same subject as everyone else. A few hours later the solutions to the problems(answers to the questions) are Solved on national Tv by some professor. Your grades result from 1-20 , and different subjects have different values (for example if you want to be a programmer math counts more than let's say physics.) If you are below 10 you are not accepted in a university , if you are 10-15 you are accepted in lower tier unis , from 15-18 you are accepted in good-very good unis and from 18-20 you reach God mode . P.S. fun facts : You prepare for this 2 weeks for almost 2 years. 1 month later the results come out... you cry. You almost always Cry. (JK if ur good u don't xD) and 3 months later ALL the kids gather at cafes. For 3 hours the Base for each university in the whole country is announced. And then around 2 p.m. you can walk around and see people crying and crawling in despair :D Shut the hell up. You are from Greece and whatever you say isn't credible. Fix your economy before even thinking about posting here.
User was banned for this post.
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On March 14 2012 21:08 helclaw wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 20:01 kaiz0ku wrote:On March 14 2012 18:17 Filter wrote:On March 14 2012 18:05 kaiz0ku wrote: I am shocked , by some of the opinions in here.. Education , and by that i mean knowledge & a Professor to hammer it into your brain should be 100% Free. If you are a 60 year old man , deciding to be a doctor , you should be able to do it without paying 1 cent.
Here in poor Greece education in 100% free.(that includes books ofc) From age 3 - to whatever the f*** you want. We also have privet schools & Unis but they are considered a joke and a big laugh.
We get discounts for everything , from public transportation to Cinema tickets.
There are some occasions ,gov tried to "Earn" money from unis , and that without even making us pay something , just by some weird ways like "Sponsoring" some actions of the university or things like that , but the Greek mentality on the subject didn't allow it. The only thing we have to pay OVER THE 22-24 years of education(including university) is 2 $ for a plastic card(and that is optional) You also get paid if you are a good student etc.
People...srsly.... L2 Riot
Greece isn't really a good example of "Free" education being towards the benefit for the country and the people involved. Education shouldn't be free, the high prices in the states are too much but it really doesn't need to be free. Countries like the US are feeling the crunch of a world based on Education. It's nearly impossible to earn a decent living as a dockworker, factory worker whatever and everybody wants to make 100k/year as an engineer. Education now is seen as a requirement to have a good life and this leads to a lack of jobs where too many people have educated themselves, and to many jobs with reduced pay because so many people can do it. This drives down the amount people are paid in "lower quality" jobs because even college educated jobs are paying less, and the menial jobs, or trades, are paying less and being filled by people with college educations not necessarily the best people for the job. I bet 100% of the people if they got polled in high school would rather be an engineer than a welder and that's becoming a big big problem. The economy is now much more top heavy and instead of 10% of the people having college educations it's going to be over 50%+ sometime in the future, that simply can't work and probably won't. There's only so many people to design the bridge, some have to build it.*Statistics are not accurate/looked up just based on trends in the last 4 or 5 decades. Edit: And paying 5-10k a year for a college Education shouldn't be a big deal for anybody. If you're good enough to "deserve" school then you can work a job for 20 hours a week to pay for it, even if the jobs flipping burgers. I understand what you are saying.. but that is now exactly how it works. If you want to be an engineer , it doesn't mean you are allowed to study it. Once you reach the end of highschool , we have the final exams. In greece the grades you get from your hichschool teachers , or the grades you have aquaired during the years count as nothing. For 2-3 weeks Every person in greece that wants to be tested ( in order to study) sits down at the exact same time , giving the exact same subject as everyone else. A few hours later the solutions to the problems(answers to the questions) are Solved on national Tv by some professor. Your grades result from 1-20 , and different subjects have different values (for example if you want to be a programmer math counts more than let's say physics.) If you are below 10 you are not accepted in a university , if you are 10-15 you are accepted in lower tier unis , from 15-18 you are accepted in good-very good unis and from 18-20 you reach God mode . P.S. fun facts : You prepare for this 2 weeks for almost 2 years. 1 month later the results come out... you cry. You almost always Cry. (JK if ur good u don't xD) and 3 months later ALL the kids gather at cafes. For 3 hours the Base for each university in the whole country is announced. And then around 2 p.m. you can walk around and see people crying and crawling in despair :D Shut the hell up. You are from Greece and whatever you say isn't credible. Fix your economy before even thinking about posting here.
Ban? You have some dumb politicians who claim that homosexuality is evil therefor we shouldn't let the Americans speak? I don't think he is responsible for all the troubles in his country. Btw the system he describes is the same as the French one (well not really anymore actually because you decide which uni you join before the exam). The English one is slightly different.
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On March 14 2012 21:08 helclaw wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 20:01 kaiz0ku wrote:On March 14 2012 18:17 Filter wrote:On March 14 2012 18:05 kaiz0ku wrote: I am shocked , by some of the opinions in here.. Education , and by that i mean knowledge & a Professor to hammer it into your brain should be 100% Free. If you are a 60 year old man , deciding to be a doctor , you should be able to do it without paying 1 cent.
Here in poor Greece education in 100% free.(that includes books ofc) From age 3 - to whatever the f*** you want. We also have privet schools & Unis but they are considered a joke and a big laugh.
We get discounts for everything , from public transportation to Cinema tickets.
There are some occasions ,gov tried to "Earn" money from unis , and that without even making us pay something , just by some weird ways like "Sponsoring" some actions of the university or things like that , but the Greek mentality on the subject didn't allow it. The only thing we have to pay OVER THE 22-24 years of education(including university) is 2 $ for a plastic card(and that is optional) You also get paid if you are a good student etc.
People...srsly.... L2 Riot
Greece isn't really a good example of "Free" education being towards the benefit for the country and the people involved. Education shouldn't be free, the high prices in the states are too much but it really doesn't need to be free. Countries like the US are feeling the crunch of a world based on Education. It's nearly impossible to earn a decent living as a dockworker, factory worker whatever and everybody wants to make 100k/year as an engineer. Education now is seen as a requirement to have a good life and this leads to a lack of jobs where too many people have educated themselves, and to many jobs with reduced pay because so many people can do it. This drives down the amount people are paid in "lower quality" jobs because even college educated jobs are paying less, and the menial jobs, or trades, are paying less and being filled by people with college educations not necessarily the best people for the job. I bet 100% of the people if they got polled in high school would rather be an engineer than a welder and that's becoming a big big problem. The economy is now much more top heavy and instead of 10% of the people having college educations it's going to be over 50%+ sometime in the future, that simply can't work and probably won't. There's only so many people to design the bridge, some have to build it.*Statistics are not accurate/looked up just based on trends in the last 4 or 5 decades. Edit: And paying 5-10k a year for a college Education shouldn't be a big deal for anybody. If you're good enough to "deserve" school then you can work a job for 20 hours a week to pay for it, even if the jobs flipping burgers. I understand what you are saying.. but that is now exactly how it works. If you want to be an engineer , it doesn't mean you are allowed to study it. Once you reach the end of highschool , we have the final exams. In greece the grades you get from your hichschool teachers , or the grades you have aquaired during the years count as nothing. For 2-3 weeks Every person in greece that wants to be tested ( in order to study) sits down at the exact same time , giving the exact same subject as everyone else. A few hours later the solutions to the problems(answers to the questions) are Solved on national Tv by some professor. Your grades result from 1-20 , and different subjects have different values (for example if you want to be a programmer math counts more than let's say physics.) If you are below 10 you are not accepted in a university , if you are 10-15 you are accepted in lower tier unis , from 15-18 you are accepted in good-very good unis and from 18-20 you reach God mode . P.S. fun facts : You prepare for this 2 weeks for almost 2 years. 1 month later the results come out... you cry. You almost always Cry. (JK if ur good u don't xD) and 3 months later ALL the kids gather at cafes. For 3 hours the Base for each university in the whole country is announced. And then around 2 p.m. you can walk around and see people crying and crawling in despair :D Shut the hell up. You are from Greece and whatever you say isn't credible. Fix your economy before even thinking about posting here.
Yeah, because the economy in the USA is just fine and dandy, don't rob someone the freedom of speech just because their country is broke. If we did that, you should probably keep your trap shut as well.
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On March 14 2012 21:08 helclaw wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 20:01 kaiz0ku wrote:On March 14 2012 18:17 Filter wrote:On March 14 2012 18:05 kaiz0ku wrote: I am shocked , by some of the opinions in here.. Education , and by that i mean knowledge & a Professor to hammer it into your brain should be 100% Free. If you are a 60 year old man , deciding to be a doctor , you should be able to do it without paying 1 cent.
Here in poor Greece education in 100% free.(that includes books ofc) From age 3 - to whatever the f*** you want. We also have privet schools & Unis but they are considered a joke and a big laugh.
We get discounts for everything , from public transportation to Cinema tickets.
There are some occasions ,gov tried to "Earn" money from unis , and that without even making us pay something , just by some weird ways like "Sponsoring" some actions of the university or things like that , but the Greek mentality on the subject didn't allow it. The only thing we have to pay OVER THE 22-24 years of education(including university) is 2 $ for a plastic card(and that is optional) You also get paid if you are a good student etc.
People...srsly.... L2 Riot
Greece isn't really a good example of "Free" education being towards the benefit for the country and the people involved. Education shouldn't be free, the high prices in the states are too much but it really doesn't need to be free. Countries like the US are feeling the crunch of a world based on Education. It's nearly impossible to earn a decent living as a dockworker, factory worker whatever and everybody wants to make 100k/year as an engineer. Education now is seen as a requirement to have a good life and this leads to a lack of jobs where too many people have educated themselves, and to many jobs with reduced pay because so many people can do it. This drives down the amount people are paid in "lower quality" jobs because even college educated jobs are paying less, and the menial jobs, or trades, are paying less and being filled by people with college educations not necessarily the best people for the job. I bet 100% of the people if they got polled in high school would rather be an engineer than a welder and that's becoming a big big problem. The economy is now much more top heavy and instead of 10% of the people having college educations it's going to be over 50%+ sometime in the future, that simply can't work and probably won't. There's only so many people to design the bridge, some have to build it.*Statistics are not accurate/looked up just based on trends in the last 4 or 5 decades. Edit: And paying 5-10k a year for a college Education shouldn't be a big deal for anybody. If you're good enough to "deserve" school then you can work a job for 20 hours a week to pay for it, even if the jobs flipping burgers. I understand what you are saying.. but that is now exactly how it works. If you want to be an engineer , it doesn't mean you are allowed to study it. Once you reach the end of highschool , we have the final exams. In greece the grades you get from your hichschool teachers , or the grades you have aquaired during the years count as nothing. For 2-3 weeks Every person in greece that wants to be tested ( in order to study) sits down at the exact same time , giving the exact same subject as everyone else. A few hours later the solutions to the problems(answers to the questions) are Solved on national Tv by some professor. Your grades result from 1-20 , and different subjects have different values (for example if you want to be a programmer math counts more than let's say physics.) If you are below 10 you are not accepted in a university , if you are 10-15 you are accepted in lower tier unis , from 15-18 you are accepted in good-very good unis and from 18-20 you reach God mode . P.S. fun facts : You prepare for this 2 weeks for almost 2 years. 1 month later the results come out... you cry. You almost always Cry. (JK if ur good u don't xD) and 3 months later ALL the kids gather at cafes. For 3 hours the Base for each university in the whole country is announced. And then around 2 p.m. you can walk around and see people crying and crawling in despair :D Shut the hell up. You are from Greece and whatever you say isn't credible. Fix your economy before even thinking about posting here. User was banned for this post.
That was rather... rude.. But even in these troubled times , our Health and Education system is better than most ! And as other person said.. We also have to decide which uni we apply for before our grades are out. So it is pretty much the same. Health is also 100% Free.
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It sounds to me like Quebec has had it easy. Uni. tuitions in Ontario go up by ridiculous amounts all the time. Also, it's BECAUSE of all the tax you pay that it isn't insanely expensive to go to Uni. like in the U.S. Your province subsidises the shit out of post-secondary. They've obviously made cuts, and this is probably a result of the right-shift in the political climate over there over the past few years.
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As someone finishing their degree and harboring a fair bit of student debt:
I think there needs to be barriers to post-secondary education. Free education for all will result in many, many more people taking advantage of this, increasing strain on the system, requiring higher taxes and greatly decreasing the young labour pool. Degree inflation would be even more rampant than it already is, requiring graduates to either know the right people, or to separate themselves from the pack by getting a Masters or PhD, even when the job they are applying for doesn't necessarily require that high degree of knowledge. It's wasteful and inefficient on so many levels. One could also make the argument that post-secondary education is an investment in oneself and statistically increases one's expected lifetime earnings. In that sense, it seems just that one should pay for it. Learning for its own sake can easily be done for free in a less formal environment.
Preferably, I would like to see merit play a much greater role in tuition fees. Scholarships exist, but their distribution can sometimes be random or based on arbitrary factors. I would love to see a system where A students receive a fully subsidized education, average students receive some subsidies and accessible loans (ie: the situation basically every Canadian student is in today) and sub-par students could only get a post-secondary education if a wealthy family member paid their way.
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I can't see any reason at all to why it shouldn't be, it is free in Sweden and I can't even imagine paying for it.
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Whether higher levels of education being available to the masses is necessary or even positive for a country depends so hugely on factors most northamericans in this thread completely ignore for no apparent reason. There's a reason the european style of subsidized payment for education works, some of the obvious of it lies in the fact that smaller countries with more concentrated population have less landspace and fewer natural ressources to draw upon. These countries simply cannot sustain or come close to competing on an international scale were the majority of the population not to be well educated and capable of working in academics or the like. These types of countries need a large amount of people to work in tertiary sections and less so people in the primary and secondary sections. This means that without an edge when it comes to education, science and research etc. countries like these will simply cease to remain competitive compared to the up and coming powerhouses that offer loads of easily accessible workforce with less restrictions and an increasing amount of well educated people in addition to the former. That's why education needs to have a large focus, and why it's so often said that it needs to be free for the students so that they can fully focus on their studies.
It is not to say everyone and their mother gets to have a BS or Masters degree with ease. That assumption is retarded. What it means though is that a larger amount of pupils will have a shot at succeeding at a higher level of education, which is exactly what's needed for future prospects.
Where the discussion seems to derail is the when northamericans and europeans fail to realize the differences in the type of countries. Both CA and the US are both massive landslides with insane amounts of natural ressources available of almost any kind. This means that the countries are bound to be less dependant on having a higher percentage of the population field a higher level education. Instead they're actually reliant on having a fairly large workforce that don't expect a higher paid office job, but are content with working as farmers, factory workers etc.
This all means that what may or may not be the right solution in one part of the world might not fit for another. What I do think most people can agree on though, is that, ideally, no amount of education a competent student is undertaking should ever be burdening to them in a financial way that could detract from their focus on studies. It's not to say it's realistic, I don't believe it is personally but wouldn't it be pretty good to have in most developed countries?
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Education should be free to anyone who wants it, and always will be as long as there are teachers around who love and care about what they do. However, I do not believe education should be compulsory for as long as it is.
I know a large number of people who were kept in the public education system long after it had ceased to do them any good, and this simply embittered them to schools.
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UK university fees were approx £1000 6 years ago, £3000 until now, and going to be £9000 (maximum I think) from Sept 2012. Further education has to be paid for because not everyone chooses to take that path. It sucks and I'm not sure why the increase is so steep, but I don't disagree with the fact that we have to pay for university in general.
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I like the system as it is now here in NL basically you pay 1600€ a year for uni and then you get extra money monthly from the government based on parents income and free public transport. The money you get builds up as debt and so does the 'free' public transport. The nice thing about our system though is that when you finish your study the debt you accumulated becomes a gift by the state. You can also loan more but you will have to pay that back with interest. By doing this the government makes it affordable for everyone to go to university while also giving people incentive to finish their studies. THey're thinking about changing it now though which saddens me quite a bit.
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I'm Scottish and we get it so much easier than the rest of you guys..
Free education, healthcare, university tution fees....
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I don't think university should be free. It's an investment and you can easily work your way through it and emerge without much debt.
In Scotland we don't pay fees, but we probably should. I think it should be privatised, rather than relying on taking money from people who don't attend university to pay for others who want to go, which is essentially what happens if you pay for it with tax (i.e. it's not free, it just means other people have to pay for it).
However, the ridiculous fees in the US are absurd, and the ones in England are getting pretty silly too. Theres really no reason for Education to be THAT expensive - it didn't used to be.
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Wow too many people in here apparently seem to think that more people taking an education = Good no matter what, and hence advocate free education.
That is just abusred argumentation. And this is so sad that many people haven't been taught how to think logical:
An education is only a good idea if its cost-effecticient in relation to the present value of the expected future income.
This is such a basic concept, yet people just keep thinking that taking education = makes everybody richer off. It doesn't. And especially in countries like Denmark, people will take educations that doesn't really give you any knowledge that employeers demand.
But this is why education isn't suppoed to be free and taxes are suppoed to be low. If you have estimated that taking an education has a positive net presenet value, then you can either take a loan, or sell a "share" of your sell (so some investor get a percentage of your expected income - typically if you got good grades in high school he would be willing to take a low percentage of your expected income).
This is how an economy is suppoed to work. It doesn't increase social unjustice in any way. It still gives people the same possibilies, however nobody is gonna tork worthless educations that they are today. In the end everybody is gonna be better off. Sure if your the laziest guy ever in high school, nobody will probably give you a loan or take a share in you. However why is that a problem? Why should someone pay for this guy's education? How can you justifiy taking money from one guy and give it to this guy?
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On March 14 2012 20:14 oGoZenob wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 19:51 Boonbag wrote: France public university is about 500 euros / year That's only for administrative purpose, and if your parent earn below a certain threshold (not sure how much) You don't have to pay at all
And in some schools, they even pay you to study there. France is awesome for that
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On March 15 2012 21:28 Hider wrote: Wow too many people in here apparently seem to think that more people taking an education = Good no matter what, and hence advocate free education.
That is just abusred argumentation. And this is so sad that many people haven't been taught how to think logical:
An education is only a good idea if its cost-effecticient in relation to the present value of the expected future income.
This is such a basic concept, yet people just keep thinking that taking education = makes everybody richer off. It doesn't. And especially in countries like Denmark, people will take educations that doesn't really give you any knowledge that employeers demand.
But this is why education isn't suppoed to be free and taxes are suppoed to be low. If you have estimated that taking an education has a positive net presenet value, then you can either take a loan, or sell a "share" of your sell (so some investor get a percentage of your expected income - typically if you got good grades in high school he would be willing to take a low percentage of your expected income).
This is how an economy is suppoed to work. It doesn't increase social unjustice in any way. It still gives people the same possibilies, however nobody is gonna tork worthless educations that they are today. In the end everybody is gonna be better off. Sure if your the laziest guy ever in high school, nobody will probably give you a loan or take a share in you. However why is that a problem? Why should someone pay for this guy's education? How can you justifiy taking money from one guy and give it to this guy?
There are soooo many positive externalities you don't even consider.
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On March 15 2012 21:43 TanTzoR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 21:28 Hider wrote: Wow too many people in here apparently seem to think that more people taking an education = Good no matter what, and hence advocate free education.
That is just abusred argumentation. And this is so sad that many people haven't been taught how to think logical:
An education is only a good idea if its cost-effecticient in relation to the present value of the expected future income.
This is such a basic concept, yet people just keep thinking that taking education = makes everybody richer off. It doesn't. And especially in countries like Denmark, people will take educations that doesn't really give you any knowledge that employeers demand.
But this is why education isn't suppoed to be free and taxes are suppoed to be low. If you have estimated that taking an education has a positive net presenet value, then you can either take a loan, or sell a "share" of your sell (so some investor get a percentage of your expected income - typically if you got good grades in high school he would be willing to take a low percentage of your expected income).
This is how an economy is suppoed to work. It doesn't increase social unjustice in any way. It still gives people the same possibilies, however nobody is gonna tork worthless educations that they are today. In the end everybody is gonna be better off. Sure if your the laziest guy ever in high school, nobody will probably give you a loan or take a share in you. However why is that a problem? Why should someone pay for this guy's education? How can you justifiy taking money from one guy and give it to this guy? There are soooo many positive externalities you don't even consider.
Like? An no the argument that educaiton --> more jobs isn't valid if you understand how the free market works.
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On March 15 2012 22:12 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 21:43 TanTzoR wrote:On March 15 2012 21:28 Hider wrote: Wow too many people in here apparently seem to think that more people taking an education = Good no matter what, and hence advocate free education.
That is just abusred argumentation. And this is so sad that many people haven't been taught how to think logical:
An education is only a good idea if its cost-effecticient in relation to the present value of the expected future income.
This is such a basic concept, yet people just keep thinking that taking education = makes everybody richer off. It doesn't. And especially in countries like Denmark, people will take educations that doesn't really give you any knowledge that employeers demand.
But this is why education isn't suppoed to be free and taxes are suppoed to be low. If you have estimated that taking an education has a positive net presenet value, then you can either take a loan, or sell a "share" of your sell (so some investor get a percentage of your expected income - typically if you got good grades in high school he would be willing to take a low percentage of your expected income).
This is how an economy is suppoed to work. It doesn't increase social unjustice in any way. It still gives people the same possibilies, however nobody is gonna tork worthless educations that they are today. In the end everybody is gonna be better off. Sure if your the laziest guy ever in high school, nobody will probably give you a loan or take a share in you. However why is that a problem? Why should someone pay for this guy's education? How can you justifiy taking money from one guy and give it to this guy? There are soooo many positive externalities you don't even consider. Like? An no the argument that educaiton --> more jobs isn't valid if you understand how the free market works. It's not only about jobs and economics. Like I said I'm not going to list them all but, for instance, with a well educated population a democracy is more likely to be successful. Less inclined to go to extremes like racism and such. Neo-nazi nowadays are rarely rocket scientists.
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