|
On October 20 2012 21:12 ob4408 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 01:50 noD wrote:As long as they are doing by free will no problem ... It's actually the oldest job known by man But nobody wants to be a prostitute by free will. It is because they have no money, so they have to be a prostitute.Does that make sense?
This sentence is just....wrong. Yes, people exist in this world that would love to be a prostitute if it were legalized. Even more so, there are people who are prostitutes in places where it's illegal to do it, but they still do it because they're good at it, and they're protected by their employers.
Saying that no one would ever want to be a prostitute out of their own free will is a terrible generalization, and a very wrong one.
|
On October 20 2012 22:21 Microsloth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 02:13 Evilmystic wrote:On September 29 2012 02:04 Kaeru wrote:On September 29 2012 01:50 noD wrote:As long as they are doing by free will no problem ... It's actually the oldest job known by man I wonder what precentage of prostitutes that do it by free will is. If someone choose prostitution because of economical issues - thats not free will. Thats being pushed into it. Same goes for acknowledgement issues and actually most cases. There might be a small fraction of people that have sex for money by free will - but that number is likely VERY small. That's just a socialist propaganda. Choice between an unpleasant job and poverty or hunger is as legitimate as any other. Well said! I was disgusted when I read that too.... How many people choose jobs they love compared to jobs they need because of economical factors. If job A pays more than job B, or if job B doesn't exist, then you choose job A. Free will doesn't factor in here.
Umm no. Maybe you are not qualified enough for Job A. Maybe there are no openings in job A. Maybe you really dislike job A. Human beings are not mindless maximizers working in a vacuum, there are a lot of structural-social-cultural constraints on human action and choice.
|
On October 20 2012 22:04 reincremate wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 21:12 ob4408 wrote:On September 29 2012 01:50 noD wrote:As long as they are doing by free will no problem ... It's actually the oldest job known by man But nobody wants to be a prostitute by free will. It is because they have no money, so they have to be a prostitute.Does that make sense? Nobody works at McDonald's by free will. It is because they have no money, so they have to be a burger flipper. Workers of the world unite?
My first job was at McDonalds. I could have worked at: Tim Horton's, WalMart, BK, Wendy's, grocery store, paper route, any restaurant, ANY other minimum wage job.
Obviously we all need money, obviously to obtain said money legally, we need to work. Therefore, we choose to work. WHERE and WHAT we choose to do? We choose via our own free will.
|
On October 20 2012 22:31 Derrida wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 22:21 Microsloth wrote:On September 29 2012 02:13 Evilmystic wrote:On September 29 2012 02:04 Kaeru wrote:On September 29 2012 01:50 noD wrote:As long as they are doing by free will no problem ... It's actually the oldest job known by man I wonder what precentage of prostitutes that do it by free will is. If someone choose prostitution because of economical issues - thats not free will. Thats being pushed into it. Same goes for acknowledgement issues and actually most cases. There might be a small fraction of people that have sex for money by free will - but that number is likely VERY small. That's just a socialist propaganda. Choice between an unpleasant job and poverty or hunger is as legitimate as any other. Well said! I was disgusted when I read that too.... How many people choose jobs they love compared to jobs they need because of economical factors. If job A pays more than job B, or if job B doesn't exist, then you choose job A. Free will doesn't factor in here. Umm no. Maybe you are not qualified enough for Job A. Maybe there are no openings in job A. Maybe you really dislike job A. Human beings are not mindless maximizers working in a vacuum, there are a lot of structural-social-cultural constraints on human action and choice. Regardless of structural-social-cultural constraints, we use free will to make any and all of our choices in life. (unless we're slaves) and these choices include what job to work. Unless you're trying to say the ONLY job said person could POSSIBLY find is prostitution. Which we all know simply isn't the case.
Also, the fact that you "chose to dislike job A"?? Free Will.
|
I think prostitution should be legalized but also regulated and controlled.
In my country, austria, prostitution in registered bordels is legalized, street prostitution is prohibited and only allowed in special areas.
The Prostitute has to have medical checkups once a week(basic STD checkup) and every half year a very meticulous checkup.
This checkups will be registered in a special card every prostitude owns and the police checks the the bordels regulary if they catch someone without card or without a medial checkup, depending on how long they didnt have a checkup they must pay a fine etc.
I think it is very good decision from my gouvernement to have medical checkups but it is not enough.
I think what is very important is to restrict working hours, some bordels and prostitutes work almost 24/hours shifts, clearly this should be limited.
Also not all but the most part of prostitutes com from countrys with a poor economy, which is not the main problem, but they dont know their rights, they dont understand english or german etc. they are taken advantage of very often,they work hard but must give most of their money to their bordel owner or even worse their "protector" if they have one.
I think prostitution needs some lobby in our country, with additional laws providing a better working condition and if the prostitute gets their fair share of the money earned i think it is ok.
So i think it should be legalized but only with good laws supporting the safty both in health and working conditions and the wage.
|
If every moral aspect is disregarded, it would be very practical to legalize prostitution. Prostitutes would be allowed benefits of a normal worker.
|
On October 20 2012 23:02 b3n3tt3 wrote: If every moral aspect is disregarded, it would be very practical to legalize prostitution. Prostitutes would be allowed benefits of a normal worker.
What is immoral about 2 consenting adults having sex? Unless you're bringing religion into the discussion, sex isn't immoral.
|
prostitution being legal is just bullshit, because that indicates it is under control. the right word would be tolerated.
in hanover/germany we got really many prostitutes. on the streets (major point funnily enough being where a big police station is located), as well as a main red light district (which also has some of the cities better music clubs) and at least two smaller. so if you are into nightlife, its quite likely you have met prostitutes. one thing you will notice is that pretty much none of them speaks german besides "hitting" on you with some random phrase including the word fuck and a price (which is about 30 euros, in case anyone wonders). you really thing those girls got a work permission? they try to get the maximum out of this for a few weeks/months and then get the fuck out of here back to eastern europe, thailand or whatever.
|
On October 20 2012 23:12 Corvi wrote: prostitution being legal is just bullshit, because that indicates it is under control. the right word would be tolerated.
in hanover/germany we got really many prostitutes. on the streets (major point funnily enough being where a big police station is located), as well as a main red light district (which also has some of the cities better music clubs) and at least two smaller. so if you are into nightlife, its quite likely you have met prostitutes. one thing you will notice is that pretty much none of them speaks german besides "hitting" on you with some random phrase including the word fuck and a price (which is about 30 euros, in case anyone wonders). you really thing those girls got a work permission? they try to get the maximum out of this for a few weeks/months and then get the fuck out of here back to eastern europe, thailand or whatever.
Just because they did a terrible job legalizing it where you're from doesn't mean it can't be correctly legalized elsewhere in the world.
|
Laughing pretty hard at Microsloth, keep em coming please
|
On October 20 2012 22:29 aNGryaRchon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 13:54 KwarK wrote:On October 20 2012 13:07 d[s]c wrote: "A woman, who had been involved in pornography as an adult performer, killed herself today, after having performed for two years"- sound like that could or couldn't happen? ofcourse, it sounds like it could. You don't kill yourself from working as cashier. You don't feel disgusted like "that" from working an absolutely innocent thing like organizing files. People comprehend why people would feel "disgusted" in doing such things, because they know what it is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Going_postalAlso you have some really, really messed up views on sex. I feel genuinely sorry for you. Sex is a celebration of passion and the human body, even the icky parts. Also an efficient method to spread disease
Absolutely! Obviously as a species we need to stop having sex in order to prolong the survival of species and not die from disease... Wait!
The main concern should be for the women involved (the actual workers). If it's legalised it should be to their benefit, protection and overall wellbeing. Not to appease our personal, moral and social views. Thinking otherwise reeks of closet misogyny.
|
On October 20 2012 22:29 aNGryaRchon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 13:54 KwarK wrote:On October 20 2012 13:07 d[s]c wrote: "A woman, who had been involved in pornography as an adult performer, killed herself today, after having performed for two years"- sound like that could or couldn't happen? ofcourse, it sounds like it could. You don't kill yourself from working as cashier. You don't feel disgusted like "that" from working an absolutely innocent thing like organizing files. People comprehend why people would feel "disgusted" in doing such things, because they know what it is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Going_postalAlso you have some really, really messed up views on sex. I feel genuinely sorry for you. Sex is a celebration of passion and the human body, even the icky parts. Also an efficient method to spread disease
there is almost 0 STIs in porn because of rigorous screening and control. a more legal and open sex business could and should have the same standards.
|
Northern Ireland174 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:04 Lann555 wrote: Just like with 'drugs' the reason for the existence of prostitution is because there exist a demand. Supply follows the demand, not the other way around. This is why, historically, trying to ban things (effectively trying to cut off supply) never works, because the demand will still exist and people will go out of their way to supply it. And since prices tend to skyrocket when you try to ban the supply, people will go to extreme lengths to claim their share of the pie, which is a recipe for violence. So I take the pragmatic view: prostitution (like drugs and other vices) will exist anyway, unless you find a way to monitor everyone 24/7 or chemically alter them to stop demand or other draconic measures. So if it's going to happen anyway, it's better to make sure it happens in a safe and organized fashion, which can only be achieved through legalization.
I completely agree with Lann555 and could not have said it better myself. Such straight forward logic. It is amazing that the powers that be don't seem to understand this.
|
On October 20 2012 23:12 Corvi wrote: prostitution being legal is just bullshit, because that indicates it is under control. the right word would be tolerated.
in hanover/germany we got really many prostitutes. on the streets (major point funnily enough being where a big police station is located), as well as a main red light district (which also has some of the cities better music clubs) and at least two smaller. so if you are into nightlife, its quite likely you have met prostitutes. one thing you will notice is that pretty much none of them speaks german besides "hitting" on you with some random phrase including the word fuck and a price (which is about 30 euros, in case anyone wonders). you really thing those girls got a work permission? they try to get the maximum out of this for a few weeks/months and then get the fuck out of here back to eastern europe, thailand or whatever.
In the case of Germany, the Thai women are generally man-baiters who caught their prey in Thailand, and not soujourning desmoiselles. Their original purposes were almost always securing the financial advantage of a German husband for themselves, their children or families, however, this not a problem sufficiently widespread to warrant special attention. Personally I have only met a few women in Germany who met this description. Others who met this description may have come from India or Latin America, and it's not always certain that they impose great domestic burdens upon their enthralled quarries.
Eastern Europe continues to invade Germany with its infinite supply of venturing vixens, but trafficking is not a major problem here either. Germany's frozen but effective regulations regime maintains a semblence of order and safety, and minimises the risk for all parties.
What is less savory is connected to the general immigration problem in Germany, and the increasingly uprooted feeling of many Metropolitan down town areas. I was shocked out of my boots when I arrived in the Main Station of Frankfurt am Main, and walked across the road only to find that the entire area opposite the station was a Red Light District. In some larger cities like Munich or Berlin, worldly establishments are placed in similarly accessible locations, in public view.
All this is related to the condition that probably the majority of both the purveyors and their clientel are now non-German, whose presences in the CBD, combined with the Ali Baba Kebab shop and the Egypt-call-centre next door, have exorcised many German cities of their venerable and ancient souls. (Immigrants being in my estimation though only the second cause; the first being non-sexual traffic.) Germany may have avoided the white flight and suburbanisation which have been denuding American cities of their charm for many generations now, but it is coming on all the same, with Berlin being the advanced example. To these large and portentous trends the presence of urban prostitution is but a drop in the bucket. It works its cancerous appendages across the diseased bodies of towns and cities as only Germans can manage it: safely, orderedly, and efficiently. For the partisans of commercialised Eros, it is indeed a paragon of those secondary virtues.
|
On October 20 2012 23:12 Corvi wrote: prostitution being legal is just bullshit, because that indicates it is under control. the right word would be tolerated.
in hanover/germany we got really many prostitutes. on the streets (major point funnily enough being where a big police station is located), as well as a main red light district (which also has some of the cities better music clubs) and at least two smaller. so if you are into nightlife, its quite likely you have met prostitutes. one thing you will notice is that pretty much none of them speaks german besides "hitting" on you with some random phrase including the word fuck and a price (which is about 30 euros, in case anyone wonders). you really thing those girls got a work permission? they try to get the maximum out of this for a few weeks/months and then get the fuck out of here back to eastern europe, thailand or whatever.
You're operating with the assumption that prostitution is bad, but you have yet to explain why prostitution is bad.
In other words, you don't actually have a logical argument.
|
Watching the TV show "Cathouse" makes me want to visit a brothel in Nevada.
A lot of these girls enjoy their jobs. There are plenty of people willing to do this safely and legally.
|
On October 20 2012 23:12 Corvi wrote: prostitution being legal is just bullshit, because that indicates it is under control. the right word would be tolerated. Legal literally just means permitted by law. It doesn't indicate a thing about control, it just means it's not explicitly disallowed. It's legal for me to masturbate, too, and that sure isn't under control.
|
I don't mind prostitution being legalized but that thread on selling virginity was FUBAR.
|
On October 21 2012 16:58 Voltaire wrote: Watching the TV show "Cathouse" makes me want to visit a brothel in Nevada.
A lot of these girls enjoy their jobs. There are plenty of people willing to do this safely and legally. Oh suuuure. HBO horny series is such a great source of information. And the whores looked soooo happy. Isn't the world beautiful?
"A grotesque exercise in the dehumanization of women is carried out routinely at Sheri's Ranch, a legal brothel about an hour’s ride outside of Vegas. There the women have to respond like Pavlov’s dog to an electronic bell that might ring at any hour of the day or night. At the sound of the bell, the prostitutes have five minutes to get to an assembly area where they line up, virtually naked, and submit to a humiliating inspection by any prospective customer who has happened to drop by" http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/opinion/15herbert.html?_r=1
Brothels impose some extraordinary restrictions on commercial sex workers" in order to "separate sex workers from the local community": some places forbid prostitutes to leave the brothels for extended periods of time, while other jurisdictions require the prostitutes to leave the county when they are not working; some places do not allow the children of the women who work in the brothels to live in the same area; some brothel workers who have cars must register the vehicle with the local police, and workers are not permitted to leave the brothel after 5pm; in some counties registered sex workers are not allowed to have cars at all. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/apr/03/nevada-prostitution-
"The brothel owners are worse than any pimp. They abuse and imprison women and are fully protected by the state" Teri, prostitute. http://www.sexwork.com/legal/NevPimpHouses.html
If you believe their PR, Nevada's legal brothels are safe, healthy – even fun – places in which to work. So why do so many prostitutes tell such horrific tales of abuse? http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/sep/07/usa.gender
But of course I guess in libertarian's fantasy world, protitution is all great because women chose it freely. You know. They enjoy being raped 30 times a day for the profit of abusive bosses with a contract that transform them into semi slaves.
A brothel owner is somebody who, when it gets down to the very essence, is nothing more than a slave-owner Assemblyman Bob L. Beers http://www.lvrj.com/news/9612332.html
|
On October 21 2012 18:35 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 16:58 Voltaire wrote: Watching the TV show "Cathouse" makes me want to visit a brothel in Nevada.
A lot of these girls enjoy their jobs. There are plenty of people willing to do this safely and legally. Oh suuuure. HBO horny series is such a great source of information. And the whores looked soooo happy. Isn't the world beautiful? "A grotesque exercise in the dehumanization of women is carried out routinely at Sheri's Ranch, a legal brothel about an hour’s ride outside of Vegas. There the women have to respond like Pavlov’s dog to an electronic bell that might ring at any hour of the day or night. At the sound of the bell, the prostitutes have five minutes to get to an assembly area where they line up, virtually naked, and submit to a humiliating inspection by any prospective customer who has happened to drop by"http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/opinion/15herbert.html?_r=1Brothels impose some extraordinary restrictions on commercial sex workers" in order to "separate sex workers from the local community": some places forbid prostitutes to leave the brothels for extended periods of time, while other jurisdictions require the prostitutes to leave the county when they are not working; some places do not allow the children of the women who work in the brothels to live in the same area; some brothel workers who have cars must register the vehicle with the local police, and workers are not permitted to leave the brothel after 5pm; in some counties registered sex workers are not allowed to have cars at all.http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/apr/03/nevada-prostitution-"The brothel owners are worse than any pimp. They abuse and imprison women and are fully protected by the state"Teri, prostitute. http://www.sexwork.com/legal/NevPimpHouses.htmlIf you believe their PR, Nevada's legal brothels are safe, healthy – even fun – places in which to work. So why do so many prostitutes tell such horrific tales of abuse?http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/sep/07/usa.genderBut of course I guess in libertarian's fantasy world, protitution is all great because women chose it freely. You know. They enjoy being raped 30 times a day for the profit of abusive bosses with a contract that transform them into semi slaves. A brothel owner is somebody who, when it gets down to the very essence, is nothing more than a slave-ownerAssemblyman Bob L. Beers If you don't like the conditions for working as a prostitute, don't be a prostitute. Get a job at McDonald's or Wal-Mart. You are in charge of your own life. Make your own decisions. We really can't help it if they're too stupid to get away from this horrible, horrible job that they have.
It's their choice that they'd rather get fucked for money instead of working for it like everyone else. It's probably not as bad as working at Wal-Mart in their minds. Should we make working at Wal-Mart illegal as well?
[edit] Personally, I've met about 4 happy prostitutes for every 1 depressed one. That's a better ratio than people working at most fast-food places. [/edit]
|
|
|
|