Introduction
Player Neagle, as of recently, is being an active participant in the sunday SC:BW Defiler Tournaments that are organized by defiler.ru. I haven't had the opportunity to play him yet, but his playstyle does raise an eyebrow amongst some of our fellow BW players - such as uT)WhistleR and sas.dRaW. In the Defiler Tour #59 [75$] thread at BW tournaments. + Show Spoiler +
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=415656
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On June 11 2013 08:31 uT)WhistleR wrote:
winner(neagle) is a hacker, me and my friend richie analyzed replays after the tour, if u wanna do it for urself check out the zvp on beltway(dont remember vs who) and the grandfinal
cant belive anyone else, except for draw noticed this
winner(neagle) is a hacker, me and my friend richie analyzed replays after the tour, if u wanna do it for urself check out the zvp on beltway(dont remember vs who) and the grandfinal
cant belive anyone else, except for draw noticed this
On June 11 2013 10:08 dRaW wrote:
he said ZvP, and I noticed his play style is VERY strange for his level. i.e against cryoc he makes 5observers on resonance II and doesn't even send them into the map, they idle @ his natural. Another example is his game sense, he seems to blind counter very consistently vs everyone, and move directly to counter armies. Another examples is against Weekly in the final when weekly sends to 12 oclock and he's already on his way to intercept.
edit: also he do 2gateway vs terror both games, but 1 game he leaves goon on ramp when terror opened differently however he didn't scout so he wouldn't know its a different opening. against cryoc on FS he did a completely different opening which was a completely greedy blind counter to what cryoc was doing, no ob ever entered his base. a dt in a shuttle entered @ like 8th minute.
he said ZvP, and I noticed his play style is VERY strange for his level. i.e against cryoc he makes 5observers on resonance II and doesn't even send them into the map, they idle @ his natural. Another example is his game sense, he seems to blind counter very consistently vs everyone, and move directly to counter armies. Another examples is against Weekly in the final when weekly sends to 12 oclock and he's already on his way to intercept.
edit: also he do 2gateway vs terror both games, but 1 game he leaves goon on ramp when terror opened differently however he didn't scout so he wouldn't know its a different opening. against cryoc on FS he did a completely different opening which was a completely greedy blind counter to what cryoc was doing, no ob ever entered his base. a dt in a shuttle entered @ like 8th minute.
In that same tournament (DT #59) also happened to be a player named KissingUr who later, after playing 3 games against me, was confirmed to maphack, multicommand and multiunit control hack. Needless to say he got banned from the tournament pretty quickly alongside his IP iCCup ban. Unlike the ' kissingUR' case, Neagle's one required a bit of analysis.
A handful of analysis
In the span of some hours I managed to analyze 15 replays that all happen to be from Defiler Tour #59 and are of the player Neagle. Indeed, there are 38 more replays left @defiler.ru that could be further analyzed, but for me, these are more than enough to make valid conclusions. Obviously, if anyone wants to join with a helping hand and another valid opinion on the matter, I'm open for further talks.
Now onto the games. Analyzed games are many and I will try to add screenshots on the most important moments + Show Spoiler +
All replays are currently available at http://defiler.ru/tourney/?t=293 -> download winner's reppack
Ro64, Neagle vs Moro Game 1, Map: Beltway
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Players are cross positioned. Neagle decides to make the scout as late as possible and throw down a nexus before his first 2 cannons. Game goes to the 05:22 mark where even though Neagle has seen nothing but standard 3 expansion play with 6 lings on speed of the opponent, he decides to place down a 3rd cannon. Eventually that cannon happens to be a very efficient blind counter to the lings he couldnt see with his scouting probe. He sends another one that gets sniped fast by those same 6 lings. Before getting sniped Neagle pulls out (before the 2nd probe dies) probes to his already well defended exp.
Yellow circle shows unscouted 8-10 lings of moro, green circle shows dying probe to 6 lings.
2nd probe dies, probes starting to be pulled
Unsuccess for Moro
Easy/fast scout of moro's new expansion later
Overall Neagle had excellent defence against mutas even before he actually saw that moro made any. Moro lost his 3rd exp and made only mutas and lost.
Ro64, Neagle vs Moro Game 2, Map: Fighting spirit (top1 proof, please stop by!)
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This is a quickie, but nastie - Neagle scouts cross positions. He finds moro on the next try and sees 2 lings and not a dime more. He hides his 1st probe and 1st zealot on 12 o’clock and on the 02:56 mark starts waiting.
In the meantime he doesn't scout for zerg's 3rd expansion, he doesn’t feel the need to know anything additional about the zerg’s doings. He proceeds with laying down super fast 2 cannons on his natural (in a position that is very good only against zerglings) even though he is making zealots at all times (and had scouted just 2 lings). He even places a 2nd pylon at his natural before his nexus making a good wall against zerglings.
After a good minute of waiting, @ 03:50 Neagle decides to make a move with his 1st zealot. Luckily for Neagle, the zealot moves in right after the zerglings move out of moro's natural.
Luckily for Neagle, moro is playing zergling heavy from 2 hatcheries (no 3rd exp) with relatively fast speed and goes to attack the super prepared natural of Neagle and has 0 success of taking it down. As we can see on the minimap, the 1st zealot of neagle is in moro's main. Wat a graet move!
Game continues with moro being super behind and Neagle continuing onto taking perfect decisions with no information against whatever moro does. Neagle wins 2:0.
In Ro32, Neagle plays vs Whistler on Fighting spirit 3 times.
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1st game he (Neagle) scouts him successfully from the first time. The game is not long and WhistleR wins by makings lots of lings vs Neagle.
In 2nd game they are cross positions, Neagle decides to go for relatively very fast nexus again and throws down a really early cannon. What's interesting is that he blindly pulls out probes to defend against the unseen lings of the opponent. Also he scouts halfway through 1 -> 5 o’clock and suddenly decides to go and scout 7 o’clock (where Whistler actually is) check that sweet skills.
Where are the lings? Luckily they are chilling a bit, near Neagle’s natural but out of his sight.
Later that game he makes 0 defences against mutas while his opponent makes no mutas at all. Good decision! He also chooses to go for a super fast 4 zealot drop which is totally great but instead to go to his 4th expansion (11o’clock) from this position he goes to 7 o’clock. Not only does he fools around freely with his shuttle (opponent has spire for a long time but has 0 scourges on the map, again luckily for Neagle), but he also doesn’t scout the 4th exp at all.
In Game 3, both players are cross positioned and again Neagle decides to play for a greedy build with no scout, super early gas, late cannon and very early nexus which eventually leads him to win the game.
In 2nd game they are cross positions, Neagle decides to go for relatively very fast nexus again and throws down a really early cannon. What's interesting is that he blindly pulls out probes to defend against the unseen lings of the opponent. Also he scouts halfway through 1 -> 5 o’clock and suddenly decides to go and scout 7 o’clock (where Whistler actually is) check that sweet skills.
Where are the lings? Luckily they are chilling a bit, near Neagle’s natural but out of his sight.
Later that game he makes 0 defences against mutas while his opponent makes no mutas at all. Good decision! He also chooses to go for a super fast 4 zealot drop which is totally great but instead to go to his 4th expansion (11o’clock) from this position he goes to 7 o’clock. Not only does he fools around freely with his shuttle (opponent has spire for a long time but has 0 scourges on the map, again luckily for Neagle), but he also doesn’t scout the 4th exp at all.
In Game 3, both players are cross positioned and again Neagle decides to play for a greedy build with no scout, super early gas, late cannon and very early nexus which eventually leads him to win the game.
Ro16 Neagle vs Zaraki Game 1, Map: La Mancha + Ro8 Neagle vs Justice Game 2, Map: La Mancha
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Interesting is that both games Neagle scouts their opponent from the very first try on the exact same map – La Mancha. What’s is more interesting is that against Justice (who happens to be 4pooling) he sends out his 2nd probe in a manner to make the forge as soon as possible, while against Zaraki he slows it way more down. 1:24 probe goes out vs 9p, 1:24 probe makes a forge vs 4pool. Nice coincidence, sir!
Ro16, Neagle vs Zaraki Game 2, Map: Resonance II
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Neagle decides that this is the game to go for super early +1 on sairs, which perfectly coincides with zaraki placing a 2nd gas at his natural which obviously Neagle has no clear vision of.
Ro8 Neagle vs Justice Game 1 @ Dante’s Peak
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Successful scout from the very first try. Good job!
Ro? Neagle vs Weekly
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On June 12 2013 05:31 uT)WhistleR wrote:
would a protoss stack 2 observers and send them into terran main over 2 turrets when terran goes m&m without even scouting that there was turrets? dont know much about pvt but that in itself seems very suspicious to me
would a protoss stack 2 observers and send them into terran main over 2 turrets when terran goes m&m without even scouting that there was turrets? dont know much about pvt but that in itself seems very suspicious to me
Ro4 Neagle vs Cryoc (for me, here comes the real fun)
Game 1 @ Resonance II
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Cryoc goes for a 2base push and he gets blind countered by Neagle’s massing units. But let’s forget about that and that Neagle has some sweet understanding where exactly cryoc’s mines and turrets are (even though he hasn’t seen them) and check this sweet homie out.
Shuttle + reebo and goon stay in front of Cryoc’s natural from the beginning of the 9th minute of the game, but to be more precise – 09:38. Suddenly, around 1 minute later (10:33), the shuttle wakes up when seeing nothing in sight and drops the reaver. Not only is he dropped, but he slowly starts moving down towards cryoc’s natural and attacking for the protoss glory! Luckily, although it’s not in his sight, that’s the exact moment when cryoc is moving out. Even though he firstly sees vultures coming out, that reebo is not satisfied with hitting those weaklings, instead the reaver is heading straight towards the tanks and hits first those (last pic).
09:38
10:33
10:34
10:36
Game 2 Neagle vs Cryoc @ Fighting Spirit
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Brutal macro blind counter, it’s not even funny or needed to explain. Just go and see the replay @ defiler.ru.
Closing words
Overall, there are many more moments that are suspicious in his play and I think there are more moves that lead to the proper, in my opinion, conclusion that Neagle maphacked in DT #59. All in all, he macro blind countered heavily, made really suspicious micro managements, scouted early too succesfully and had too good of an army positiong relative to opponent's army. Interestingly enough, in this very same tournament was caught another hacker - kissingur - for maphack, multicommand hack and multiunit control hack. How probable is all that happening in the same tournament?
First there was some Cindy guy, next kissingur, now Neagle, and maybe many more that we didn't bother checking so thoroughly? Do we have to investigate suspicious players with South Korean flags so often at all or do we make something in order to avoid that?
For me, Neagle is a clear case of maphack abuse. How about you? Please download the replays @ http://defiler.ru/tourney/?t=293 -> download winner's reppack, watch closely and see for yourself and post your opinion and/or feedback here. If there are further (and that I find strong) proofs showing Neagle maphacked in DT #59 or he didn't, I will add them into the OP.