WHERE IS SPRING. It's actually going to snow like 5 more inches on Sunday now it looks like...FML
Running Thread 2014 - Page 5
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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
WHERE IS SPRING. It's actually going to snow like 5 more inches on Sunday now it looks like...FML | ||
L_Master
United States7946 Posts
On March 14 2014 12:15 LuckyFool wrote: thanks for the advice guys I will definitely mix it up and not run myself into oblivion. I wasn't planning on doing that for more than a week or two anyway. This is what happens when I'm running 90% of the time on treadmills, I get stir crazy. WHERE IS SPRING. It's actually going to snow like 5 more inches on Sunday now it looks like...FML I really like doing progression runs when I have to run easy on the treadmill. Let's say 8.0 is right about average easy pace. I might start at 7.5 and every half mile increase by .1. If I feel great I can get faster, or fartlek for their or whatever. If I don't feel good I can just chill at 8 or ladder back down. It at least gives you something happening every 3-4 mins | ||
N.geNuity
United States5111 Posts
Goals: Either a half marathon (undetermined pace) and/or a sub 18:00 5k, 36:30 10k for October timeframe (6 months). I ran an 18:30 5k in february on an incredibly flat road race and felt pretty good about it, so I feel the 18:00 5k is certainly a goal I can [easily] achieve; it wouldn't be a PR, but my PR is ~5 years old. My training this year has pretty much just exclusively been tempo runs or some pretty quick treadmill runs (manually doing hill workouts or built in "mountain" workouts, some training of like 2.5 min fast [I guess slightly below 5k race pace], 2.5 min jog for 30 minutes, or just 30-35 minute runs). I need to start going on runs >6 miles (>10 km) more frequently though. | ||
mtmentat
United States142 Posts
On March 14 2014 11:03 L_Master wrote: Haha I better get in serious shape before I race you. I'm in way ready to hang with someone that can run sub 17/sub 35 Perhaps calling it a "tempo" run is a bit misleading, it might have hurt just a wee bit more than a tempo. A sub 18 minute 5K is currently what I think I can probably consistently pull off, but sub 17 might be accessible in another month or two of similar training (and as the miles dial up). It just feels great, having some of this year's early running/training starting to pay off. | ||
Don_Julio
2220 Posts
I'm wondering if the HM which is on a totally flat course is going to help me in any way or if I should try the 10k instead. The 10k is the first of a series of races in my city, which I'm tempted to participate in again (was fun last year). I have no idea if I'm in PR shape atm. So my actual questions are: 1. Would running the HM help me? I wouldn't run with full effort probably. I'm almost running a HM at an easy pace on a weekly basis anyways. 2. How do I figure out how close to my 10k PR (45:55 back in September) I am? Some Intervals or like a 7k run at PR pace? | ||
L_Master
United States7946 Posts
As far as #2 6xMile w/60-90s jog recovery is a pretty classic "predictor" workout. If you know your own training it's usually pretty easy to infer your rough shape based on paces of easy runs, tempos, and the workouts you are doing. For instance in my case, because I tend to be mediocre as a racer, and sometimes a bit aggressive with tempos I know I'm good for about tempo pace - 20s for mile for a flat 5k course. You might not have that down yet, but if you pay attention to your training you'll start to find things to cue off of. | ||
mtmentat
United States142 Posts
On March 18 2014 10:39 Don_Julio wrote: I'm wondering if the HM which is on a totally flat course is going to help me in any way or if I should try the 10k instead. The 10k is the first of a series of races in my city, which I'm tempted to participate in again (was fun last year). I have no idea if I'm in PR shape atm. So my actual questions are: 1. Would running the HM help me? I wouldn't run with full effort probably. I'm almost running a HM at an easy pace on a weekly basis anyways. 2. How do I figure out how close to my 10k PR (45:55 back in September) I am? Some Intervals or like a 7k run at PR pace? I actually think that doing the 10km might be more useful. If you're already going a decent bit of mileage, running but not racing a HM really won't be that novel, whereas actually racing the 10km will give you the mental confidence on the last 3rd of your upcoming (keep talking about it! get psyched!) 30km run. Either the mile repeat method L_Master mentioned or just running a known 5K and converting it would give you a pretty decent idea of how close you are to PR, and then running it will be the true test! | ||
Bunn
Estonia934 Posts
Posting here to perhaps one day look back at how I've progressed. 3 weeks ago I got my shit together and actually started working on myself. I haven't really been an active person, besides very early childhood. Now that I'm 20 years old, I'm pretty unfit, but I'm slowly starting to see some improvements. I saw someone suggest the C25K program, and I finally put my smartphone to use and downloaded a running app called RunDouble. Basically it has bunch of plans in it, which help to train. This particular program, emphasises on intervals and slowly increasing time spent running each week. This has been in my experience been really heplful, as every previous time I got a surge to improve myself, I just burnt myself out in a week or so. But this app actually tells me when to run and when to walk. I've now started my 4th week with the C25k plan, and I'm slowly feeling better. The first and second week were the hardest, as my legs and places which I don't know how to name, were constantly painful after each run, but by the third week, that wasn't the case anymore. After each running session, I feel really tired for a bit, but overall I'm feeling more energetic throughout the day, and the pain doesn't occur that often anymore. I do have some difficulties with running though. Every time I go for a run, I have to wear a knee band, because if I don't it may really start to hurt. I'm thinking of getting a second one too, then both of my knees would feel great (only the right one is somewhat problematic, but nothing too serious). Running in a very changing weather has it problems as well. Just last week it was all sunny, and it was looking like summer was just around the corner, but as is, this week has been full of snow and ice. Slippery and icy roads can sometimes make it really difficult to stay standing, but somehow I've found that running instead of walking on ice is easier, than one would think. The worst weather in my case has to be either extreme windiness or cold (-10C). After those days my head and ears really hurt and I can feel really tired for the rest of the day. I've noticed that other runners that I've encountered all wear special clothing and/or headphones. When it comes to clothing I wear some light clothing, which in any way, shape, or form isn't aerodynamic, and my footwear consits of some cheap trainers and extra padding (really helpful, as otherwise I'd be unable to run). I don't listen to music when I run, partly because I find it distracting, and partly, because good running hardware is too expensive. Although my current shoes are surprisingly comfortable (must be the padding), they definitely won't last very long because they're pretty damn cheap. I'm thinking of buying special running shoes, but those seem kind of questionable, as I don't know if I could actually run in those. A lot better option seems to be trail running shoes, as they seem to have better padding and softer (?) feel to them. I don't like random pebbles under my feet. Anyways back to running. Each week the longest interval distance grew. When the first week my longest interval was just 0,21 km, then by the second week it had grown to 0,28 km. The third week almost doubled the longest distance with 0.56 km. The fourth week has started with the longest distance yet, with 0,84 km. I made a shitty spreadsheet, if anyone's interested located here. I've noticed that the days where I run with a faster pace, under 7:00 min/km, I get tired more quickly, and I may fail to finish appropriately. The fastest pace has been 6.30 min/km, but if I remember correctly, the weather conditions were perfect that day, so maybe that has something to do with that. I think about 7:10 min/km would be the optimal pace for me, as I won't get too tired too fast, and will likely finish the run. The days where I ran too fast, usually resulted in my knees hurting really badly, so that's something to consider. If the pace is too fast, I just can't last. Only thing saving my knees on really fast days has been the knee band. Otherwise I would've probably quit by now. What else... Arguably, my nose has been runnier than ever before, and I have blown it more than ever before. But interestingly enough, it hasn't bled. Usually my nose would be spraying blood all over the place, but that hasn't occurred yet. Perhaps the weather hasn't been too cold. Total distance I've ran since I started a little less than 3 weeks ago, including walking intervals, but no warm-up or cool-down: 22,46 km. In addition to running I also do push-ups and sit-ups regularly and stretches before each run. I'm skinnier than ever before, but that's probably due to the fact that my braces and recently 'fixed' jaw won't allow me to eat everything I'd like. I've also stopped adding sugar to my tea, and I eat a bit less chocolate now. Well not less, but not everything in one hour and instead trying to enjoy it over span of a week. Totally cutting sugar seems impossible and rather pointless to me, as all foods increase some form of sugar, and some foods just don't work without sugar. I currently weigh about 76 kg (about 170 pounds) while being 197 cm (6'6") tall. To put it in perspective, at the time when I dropped out of college 3 months ago, I was weighing 85 kilos, which means almost a 10kg drop in weight. Some would say that I'm too skinny, but honestly, I've been lean my whole life, and I don't think I'm that skinny. I've seen some anorectics and I'm far from that (I love food and eating). I could be more muscular, but that would require me to go to a gym, which I'm not interested in. I enjoy running and seeing the scenery and people more. Well that's about it I guess. This came out pretty long, but I felt I needed to write it down somewhere. I'm feeling motivated and I look forward to my future runs. | ||
Don_Julio
2220 Posts
On March 19 2014 19:28 Bunn wrote: + Show Spoiler + Hey all Posting here to perhaps one day look back at how I've progressed. 3 weeks ago I got my shit together and actually started working on myself. I haven't really been an active person, besides very early childhood. Now that I'm 20 years old, I'm pretty unfit, but I'm slowly starting to see some improvements. I saw someone suggest the C25K program, and I finally put my smartphone to use and downloaded a running app called RunDouble. Basically it has bunch of plans in it, which help to train. This particular program, emphasises on intervals and slowly increasing time spent running each week. This has been in my experience been really heplful, as every previous time I got a surge to improve myself, I just burnt myself out in a week or so. But this app actually tells me when to run and when to walk. I've now started my 4th week with the C25k plan, and I'm slowly feeling better. The first and second week were the hardest, as my legs and places which I don't know how to name, were constantly painful after each run, but by the third week, that wasn't the case anymore. After each running session, I feel really tired for a bit, but overall I'm feeling more energetic throughout the day, and the pain doesn't occur that often anymore. I do have some difficulties with running though. Every time I go for a run, I have to wear a knee band, because if I don't it may really start to hurt. I'm thinking of getting a second one too, then both of my knees would feel great (only the right one is somewhat problematic, but nothing too serious). Running in a very changing weather has it problems as well. Just last week it was all sunny, and it was looking like summer was just around the corner, but as is, this week has been full of snow and ice. Slippery and icy roads can sometimes make it really difficult to stay standing, but somehow I've found that running instead of walking on ice is easier, than one would think. The worst weather in my case has to be either extreme windiness or cold (-10C). After those days my head and ears really hurt and I can feel really tired for the rest of the day. I've noticed that other runners that I've encountered all wear special clothing and/or headphones. When it comes to clothing I wear some light clothing, which in any way, shape, or form isn't aerodynamic, and my footwear consits of some cheap trainers and extra padding (really helpful, as otherwise I'd be unable to run). I don't listen to music when I run, partly because I find it distracting, and partly, because good running hardware is too expensive. Although my current shoes are surprisingly comfortable (must be the padding), they definitely won't last very long because they're pretty damn cheap. I'm thinking of buying special running shoes, but those seem kind of questionable, as I don't know if I could actually run in those. A lot better option seems to be trail running shoes, as they seem to have better padding and softer (?) feel to them. I don't like random pebbles under my feet. Anyways back to running. Each week the longest interval distance grew. When the first week my longest interval was just 0,21 km, then by the second week it had grown to 0,28 km. The third week almost doubled the longest distance with 0.56 km. The fourth week has started with the longest distance yet, with 0,84 km. I made a shitty spreadsheet, if anyone's interested located here. I've noticed that the days where I run with a faster pace, under 7:00 min/km, I get tired more quickly, and I may fail to finish appropriately. The fastest pace has been 6.30 min/km, but if I remember correctly, the weather conditions were perfect that day, so maybe that has something to do with that. I think about 7:10 min/km would be the optimal pace for me, as I won't get too tired too fast, and will likely finish the run. The days where I ran too fast, usually resulted in my knees hurting really badly, so that's something to consider. If the pace is too fast, I just can't last. Only thing saving my knees on really fast days has been the knee band. Otherwise I would've probably quit by now. What else... Arguably, my nose has been runnier than ever before, and I have blown it more than ever before. But interestingly enough, it hasn't bled. Usually my nose would be spraying blood all over the place, but that hasn't occurred yet. Perhaps the weather hasn't been too cold. Total distance I've ran since I started a little less than 3 weeks ago, including walking intervals, but no warm-up or cool-down: 22,46 km. In addition to running I also do push-ups and sit-ups regularly and stretches before each run. I'm skinnier than ever before, but that's probably due to the fact that my braces and recently 'fixed' jaw won't allow me to eat everything I'd like. I've also stopped adding sugar to my tea, and I eat a bit less chocolate now. Well not less, but not everything in one hour and instead trying to enjoy it over span of a week. Totally cutting sugar seems impossible and rather pointless to me, as all foods increase some form of sugar, and some foods just don't work without sugar. I currently weigh about 76 kg (about 170 pounds) while being 197 cm (6'6") tall. To put it in perspective, at the time when I dropped out of college 3 months ago, I was weighing 85 kilos, which means almost a 10kg drop in weight. Some would say that I'm too skinny, but honestly, I've been lean my whole life, and I don't think I'm that skinny. I've seen some anorectics and I'm far from that (I love food and eating). I could be more muscular, but that would require me to go to a gym, which I'm not interested in. I enjoy running and seeing the scenery and people more. Well that's about it I guess. This came out pretty long, but I felt I needed to write it down somewhere. I'm feeling motivated and I look forward to my future runs. Awesome. This thread is a great source of motivation and advice. Keep us up to date on your progression. I can't really comment on the C25K program as I have no experience with starting from scratch and notoriously give bad advice. You need to be careful about your knee though. Some more detail would help to give you advice. I can comment on your equipment: Shoes are your most important equipment obviously and proper running shoes can help you a lot. Your knee issues might come from having bad footwear. Good shoes aren't cheap but they are worth the investment if you plan to continue running. What you want to do is to go to a shop that is dedicated to running. A good salesman will let you run on the treadmill and observe your style. Tell him how much and how fast you're running, what your goals are and what you're planning to spend. He should let you try some shoes on the treadmill then so you can decide which feel good for you. Try to find out if there are any locations at your feet which could cause issues with the shoe. Keep in mind that your feet get bigger if you go for longer runs. Do NOT buy them over the internet or at huge stores where nobody knows his trade. Clothing isn't that important. I have synthetic, specialized runners wear but almost every single piece was a present. It's easy to gift to a runner; a coupon, a new shirt, new socks and I'm happy. You should be fine with your light clothing. Cotton isn't optimal as it soaks up all the sweat but it shouldn't matter too much in the beginning. Don't worry about aerodynamics. I don't listen to music either. I'm living in a rural area and I love listening to the sounds of nature and I find it important to recognize any danger by cars, bikes or dogs soon enough. You should protect your ears in some way when it's cold. I'm a softy and my ears start hurting when it's <10°C and I'm sweating. That's why I started wearing a bandana all the time even if it's warmer as it stops sweat running into my eyes. When it's <0°C I wear a bandana around my neck, too. Your weight is still OK. You shouldnt worry about your diet too much. If you don't skip meals when you're hungry and eat healthy you should be fine. There's nothing wrong with being skinny. You would have trouble if you want to build muscles I guess. But everything seems to be fine for a runner. 10kg in 3 months is a lot though. You don't want to keep losing much more. Good luck and I hope you keep your motivation. | ||
mtmentat
United States142 Posts
More info on shoes: the trail running shoes are NOT softer. They are actually much less forgiving, in most cases, because they are built with a stronger shank (hard plastic, metal) to give someone going uphill more "bite" and to be able to keep plodding on without over-extending your Achilles tendon. What Bunn wants are road running shoes, which come in many different varieties, some of which are REALLY emphasizing the padding: i.e. Hoka or other "maximalist" running shoes. Also, Bunn, I eat chocolate all the time. Food of the gods, food of the gods. I'm actually fairly serious about this: I buy in tens of kilograms as a hobbiest chocolatier. Recent studies (***insert appropriate skepticism!!!) have pointed to some heart/circulatory benefits from moderate consumption of dark chocolate. | ||
mtmentat
United States142 Posts
The basics: DON'T over-stride, try to keep your feet moving quickly rather than bounding (higher rep rate). Getting proper running shoes will help a lot. Try to avoid hard surfaces (concrete) on your runs, look for dirt trails or grass. You don't have to go to the gym to strengthen your legs: http://www.runnersworld.com/injury-treatment/all-hips and also http://www.runnersworld.com/health/build-better-knee. | ||
Bunn
Estonia934 Posts
On March 20 2014 01:38 mtmentat wrote: Hi again, Bunn - please update us about the knee issues. I myself have pretty bad knees but shoes, proper running form, and a little bit of specific training to increase hip & knee strength can do wonders to help with this. The basics: DON'T over-stride, try to keep your feet moving quickly rather than bounding (higher rep rate). Getting proper running shoes will help a lot. Try to avoid hard surfaces (concrete) on your runs, look for dirt trails or grass. You don't have to go to the gym to strengthen your legs: http://www.runnersworld.com/injury-treatment/all-hips and also http://www.runnersworld.com/health/build-better-knee. After reading those, I came to the conclusion that I may have runners knee. I'm not sure, of course, but I do have this need to 'crack' my knee, as mentioned in one of the articles. There are some days when it doesn't hurt, but some other days it can become quite uncomfortable. I'll try to improve it, hopefully all your suggestions will help. Again, thanks everyone! | ||
Salivanth
Australia1071 Posts
The first one is that it's important to have recovery time, so you don't want to run every day. The second one is that a beginner should start at 3-4 days a week, but move up 1 day per week if they can until they're doing 6-7 days a week. If the first piece of advice is true, wouldn't the second piece be a bad idea? In order to learn running, I've mapped out a 3 km (1.9 mile) course for myself, which I'm doing in intervals of walking and jogging. (I'm not sure what the difference between jogging and running is, I know running is faster, but I don't know what turns a jog into a run. I know that I'm definitely going way slower than sprinting speed, and my strides are pretty short.) The problem is, I want to do said run every day, and now I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not. | ||
L_Master
United States7946 Posts
On March 20 2014 09:49 Salivanth wrote: So there seems to be a couple of pieces of advice in the thread that, as a new runner, confuse the hell out of me when taken together. The first one is that it's important to have recovery time, so you don't want to run every day. The second one is that a beginner should start at 3-4 days a week, but move up 1 day per week if they can until they're doing 6-7 days a week. If the first piece of advice is true, wouldn't the second piece be a bad idea? You are correct recovery time is important, but the "mistake" in the thought process would be the fact that you don't want to run everyday. If you are very new to running, just running is enough of a new stress that days off can be helpful. Some beginners could just hop into to running 4+M everyday and be fine...but you don't know if you are that guy until you try and find yourself able to do it...or injured. So the conservative route is to start with some days off. As you become conditioned though, a basic run at an easy pace is not a significant stress at all. You can recover fine, arguably better, by just running a nice easy pace; or if you are really hammered from a hard workout a pace that is actually slow and borderline lazy. This "active recovery" is better because it helps circulate blood around to move nutrients and clear metabolic by-products, and also offers a little bit of aerobic development as well. (I'm not sure what the difference between jogging and running is, I know running is faster, but I don't know what turns a jog into a run. I know that I'm definitely going way slower than sprinting speed, and my strides are pretty short.) The problem is, I want to do said run every day, and now I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not. This is more of a philosophical question. To me the difference between a runner and a jogger is simple. The joggers motivation is to get something out of running whether it be health, weight loss, looking better etc. The runner is putting something into running, striving to improve, push his limits, and test himself. As far as the difference between jogging and running...it's completely individual. Most runners I know think of jogging are a really slow pace, the type you would run warming up, cooling down, or just for recovery runs or slow recovery bouts between intervals of hard work. Running is pretty much an easy aerobic pace and faster. This allows what jogging is to be vastly different for runners. For a newer runner 10:00 mile pace is most certainly running, but for an elite athlete like a Kenenisa Bekele or Galen Rupp 6:00 pace is a nice, recovery jog. It's all relative to ones fitness. In order to learn running, I've mapped out a 3 km (1.9 mile) course for myself, which I'm doing in intervals of walking and jogging. If you are walking/jogging just to be very conservative that is fine. If the walk breaks are because you are getting winded/tired on your running portions then you are running WAY, WAY, WAYYYY too hard. | ||
Salivanth
Australia1071 Posts
On March 20 2014 09:57 L_Master wrote: If you are walking/jogging just to be very conservative that is fine. If the walk breaks are because you are getting winded/tired on your running portions then you are running WAY, WAY, WAYYYY too hard. And that applies to beginner runners as well? I ask because I don't know if it's even possible for me to run slowly enough to not tire / run out of breath across the entire three kilometers. I guess I'll try running as slowly as I can while still actually running tomorrow and see how that goes. | ||
L_Master
United States7946 Posts
On March 20 2014 12:30 Salivanth wrote: And that applies to beginner runners as well? I ask because I don't know if it's even possible for me to run slowly enough to not tire / run out of breath across the entire three kilometers. I guess I'll try running as slowly as I can while still actually running tomorrow and see how that goes. It absolutely applies for beginners. You can run at any pace, even if it was slower than a walk. You just end up with smaller and smaller steps basically. | ||
Salivanth
Australia1071 Posts
On March 20 2014 13:00 L_Master wrote: It absolutely applies for beginners. You can run at any pace, even if it was slower than a walk. You just end up with smaller and smaller steps basically. I'll try that then. Thanks | ||
L_Master
United States7946 Posts
^ That is going to be one of my goals for this season. I look pretty relaxed...but I can't go much faster, and that's only about 58-60s 400 pace. Pretty much slower than molasses. Ideally I'd like to get that 400 time down south of 56s or so, which would give me the speed needed to go sub 2. | ||
Don_Julio
2220 Posts
RA stats: 2014: 244,9 km 22:22:22 I shall never run again. | ||
berated-
United States1134 Posts
On March 22 2014 22:08 Don_Julio wrote: Damn, you're fast. What is "sub 2"? RA stats: I shall never run again. under 2 minutes for 800m. | ||
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