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CJ Biome is awesome! Deadwing sucks... free 3 bases? I'll pass. Hell, you could just wall off the 3rd and be fine. Catallena looks really chokey, same with Kamala Park despite it looking GORGEOUS. I think my favorite though is Foxtrot, as they mentioned it is extremely similar to Cloud Kingdom, probably my favorite map of all time.
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Personally I'm a big fan of Kamala Park and Deadwing. Congrats to the finalists!
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United States4883 Posts
On April 30 2014 10:27 Namrufus wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2014 09:59 The_Templar wrote: Completely disagree with all of the finalists except Foxtrot Labs, Solar Flare, Sacred Path, and Kamala Park. I particularly dislike Deadwing since it's really ugly and sort of boring.
I would like to know what the thought processes behind not choosing my 2v2 map were if that's ok. Sorry for the negative comment, I just didn't like a lot of the choices for finalists. I dunno... for Deadwing... though I do agree that it seems a bit generic, I do think that there is room for a solid big macro map. I would take Deadwing over Alterzim. Though I do wish there was at least 1 smaller/micro/low income( edit: low income as in less bases, or harder bases, not "crazy" stuff like FRB or even half bases) map in the finalists - two maps (Deadwing and CJ) have 20 bases each!. Of course, the opinions of the people who actually tested the maps for a week have a lot more weight than mine. Maybe none of the small maps they tested actually worked in practice.
Deadwing is a little generic, I can agree with that. But it's still a decently designed map with rather interesting concepts that make it worth playing on. The center area of biome and the massive amounts of air play available actually make it fairly difficult to get a 5th and 6th base easily too.
If you want a smaller map, Kamala Park and Catallena definitely provide some challenges for taking the third, especially as Protoss. Those maps definitely play out a lot more aggressively (2-3 base heavy aggression) than the others you mentioned.
Glad to hear that mostly everyone approves of the maps thus far!
On April 30 2014 11:30 S1eth wrote: I have a hard time imagining how those 1v1 maps are going to play out (and I'm surely not the only one). I take it that there won't be a TLMC tournament this time? So most people will decide on a whim based on looks...
CJBiome. A completely flat (except for the mains) map without any chokes whatsoever?
Like it says in the description, we expect air play to be fairly common on Biome, meaning that terrain plays a rather smaller role in the overall gameplay. This map relies a lot on either really solid timings or lots of multi-tasking with drops/air harass, so it's less likely that both players will turtle on 4 bases forever.
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Wow, not what I would've expected from this contest. Now lets see what we can smacktalk about these maps..
Kamala - The 2 most stanard 4p maps cut together but with some twists in the center. I think. Kinda hard to see from this view. Exciting.
Catallena - Could be renamed to "Trying to make a 3player map symmetrical".
Biome - Everything's just so.. smooshed together. You can defend 4 bases with 4 Siege Tanks and harass 3 bases from safe distance with some ranged units. Also, have fun Zergs, defending against Medivac play between your main and 3rd.
Deadwing - Huge, turtly, not big on innovation and boring in the center. The decals are awesome though. All kinda reminds me of maps 2 years ago.
Foxtrot - Kinda like it. Reminds me of CK a bit. Just not sure about the golds. To me the only map that looks like a finalist.
Looks like this time the 2v2 maps win the contest.
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The maps are too conservative. I want something REALLY novel. But they all look well done.
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My ranking (best to worst):
1. Foxtrot Labs: Center terrain and gold base setup is good. Make it cross spawns only (2 in 1) and it would be a decent enough map - but horizontal spawns really need to be disabled though, right now the map is literally just plain asymmetrical in that configuration. 2. Kamala Park: Best aesthetics of all the finalists. The main/nat/3rd setup is generic and taking 5 bases is too easy, but I like the layout of the ramps throughout the center. Also the base count, at 14, is actually reasonable (hint: if you have 20 bases you're doing it wrong), and it's more likely that the entire map will be used. 3. Catallena: Pretty standard/boring design, nice octopus though. It's a solid map but there's not really anything this map does that Merry Go Round doesn't already do equally as well. 4. Deadwing: Bases are all too close and there are too many of them (see: above hint). 4 or even 5 base turtle is easier than Alterzim. Pushing through the backdoor in close positions could also be a problem. 5. Biome: I honestly have no clue how this one got picked. 4 base turtle is even easier than Deadwing - your 4th is as easy as the 3rd to take. Sure defending against air harass is harder, but that's irrelevant when you can defend 4 bases by literally parking your army in 1 spot with 0 movement required. The aesthetics also aren't good - creating 5 distinct areas with only 8 textures isn't really feasible. All the areas have only 1 or 2 textures and as a result look extremely bland.
Overall I'm disappointed with the finalist selection, it's pretty clear that the TL strategy team isn't as willing to experiment as most mapmakers. Maps have only been getting larger, more macro oriented, and turtly and I can't recall hearing a single person support this trend, yet 2 of 5 finalists have 20 bases while none are 12 base/low eco. This just reinforces the trend rather than testing new ways to break it while preserving balance - which should be the entire point of contests like this.
At least the team maps are good, I wouldn't mind any of them getting added to the map pool.
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Catallena, and Foxtrot look cool, but I'm not very impressed with the other 1v1 maps; Deadwing is just a huge macro map, Kamala doesn't stand out much, and Biome doesn't have much going for it except for being a 5 player map. As for 2v2 maps, gogogo Sacred Path.
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TT cj biome or deadwing they both look soooooooooooooooooooooooooo awesome TT this is to hard but for game play i think i will go with deadwing but it pains me to not pick such a beautiful map as cj biome.i wish we could have them both TT, but again i think for tourneys and game play deadwing is better. god damn this is so hard gl to everyone
damn the more i look at these the more i like foxtrot as well and agree with everyone saying deadwing is kinda generic but i like it the most for ladder and tourney play but wouldnt mind foxtrot winning.
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United States4883 Posts
On April 30 2014 12:33 -NegativeZero- wrote: My ranking (best to worst):
1. Foxtrot Labs: Center terrain and gold base setup is good. Make it cross spawns only (2 in 1) and it would be a decent enough map - but horizontal spawns really need to be disabled though, right now the map is literally just plain asymmetrical in that configuration. 2. Kamala Park: Best aesthetics of all the finalists. The main/nat/3rd setup is generic and taking 5 bases is too easy, but I like the layout of the ramps throughout the center. Also the base count, at 14, is actually reasonable (hint: if you have 20 bases you're doing it wrong), and it's more likely that the entire map will be used. 3. Catallena: Pretty standard/boring design, nice octopus though. It's a solid map but there's not really anything this map does that Merry Go Round doesn't already do equally as well. 4. Deadwing: Bases are all too close and there are too many of them (see: above hint). 4 or even 5 base turtle is easier than Alterzim. Pushing through the backdoor in close positions could also be a problem. 5. Biome: I honestly have no clue how this one got picked. 4 base turtle is even easier than Deadwing - your 4th is as easy as the 3rd to take. Sure defending against air harass is harder, but that's irrelevant when you can defend 4 bases by literally parking your army in 1 spot with 0 movement required. The aesthetics also aren't good - creating 5 distinct areas with only 8 textures isn't really feasible. All the areas have only 1 or 2 textures and as a result look extremely bland.
Overall I'm rather disappointed with these finalists, it's pretty clear that the TL strategy team isn't as willing to experiment as most mapmakers. Maps have only been getting larger, more macro oriented, and turtly and I can't recall hearing a single person support this trend, yet 2 of 5 finalists have 20 bases while none are 12 base/low eco. This just reinforces the trend rather than testing new ways to break it while preserving balance - which should be the entire point of contests like this.
At least the team maps are good, I wouldn't mind any of them getting added to the map pool.
It's actually really hard to get 4 bases on Kamala and Catallena, and even taking a third is a bit difficult for some matchups (PvT, ZvT, ZvP). Five bases is almost completely out of the question, the maps are just too small. If you'd prefer more aggressive maps, Kamala and Catallena are the way to go. We're expecting to see a lot of 2-base all-ins and heavy 3-base aggression on these maps.
When testing these maps out, we were specifically looking for new and interesting ways to push balance while still maintaining playability. Simply put, we believe these maps fit that criteria while a lot of the other maps were either far too boring or completely unplayable. Remember that the winner of this contest can be selected for ladder; the last thing we need is another broken map like Yeonsu stuck in the map pool.
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Foxtrot is really cool but I wish it was cross only . Rotational imbalance is strong.
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hmm, first one of these where I'm having a hard time. Cloud Kingdom and Frost were obvious winners in their respective contests, but not this time around.
It's between Foxtrot and Kamala Park as far as the 1v1 goes imo.
I suppose I'm leaning more towards Kamala since it seems more balanced and macro-oriented. Slight bonus points as well for looking the best aesthetically :p
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Biome looks like an amazing map. Though they all look good. But biome in particular, it may seem like a wide open map but it seems the middle of the map is relatively restricted (for a ground army).
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Foxtrot looks AMAZING. cant wait to play the fuck out of that map
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United States4883 Posts
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On April 30 2014 14:03 Ferisii wrote:http://i.imgur.com/htshxju.jpgMight wanna fix that. How did that get overlooked? Weren't the maps "thoroughly" tested? Thanks, fixed it.
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I want CJ Biome to win so bad.
Though I worry a bit that every Z game will come down to mass mutas...
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On April 30 2014 14:22 LightSpectra wrote: I want CJ Biome to win so bad.
Though I worry a bit that every Z game will come down to mass mutas...
Honestly we were more concerned it would come down to mass swarm hosts. Every attack path concentrates on the center and it could get complicated weighing that part of the map against how good air is on this map as well.
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