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Bonham either DNF or it's a technical issue. Damn.
On October 06 2014 02:16 FFGenerations wrote: yo hi runners.
when i run when i exhale i do this goldfish puff out cheeks things OR i do the between-the-teeth TSSSSSSSS thing when i exhale
its like i'm incapable of/dont want to exhale quickly/fully at once, so i do it gradually to begin with then the last bit i exhale quickly and normally.
why do i do this? is it bad? im trying to exhale quickly and fully with open mouth/lung is it coz (im) a smoker so my body doesnt like fast air going out of my lungs because it can cause pain/damage? thats the only thing i could think of really Don't think too much about breathing. What happens when you don't focus at it all should be close to ideal.
Most runners don't breathe in a 1:1 in-/exhale rythm. I usually have 2:2 rythm, that's two times breathing in and two times exhaling. It can change if I'm running at an unusual fast or slow pace. Every breath lines up with a step. But again, I don't do this consciously most of the time.
Make sure to not run too fast. Most of your runs should be run at a "conversational pace" which means you should be able to maintain a converation with someone else. Do some strides at the end of your run if that's too slow and boring.
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Now I'm worried. Lots of results posted and no sign of Bonham.
Either a fuckup with the system or an injury. Really hoping its the former.
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I think we can relax. Up on strava, and while the last few miles were expectedly rough, he still met his sub 240 goal.
Given that pacing and more time to develop a marathon engine I could see lower 230s for Bonham in a year or so if he decides to stick with M training over shorter stuff
Awesome work Mr. Bonham!
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Hey guys! System error. Thanks for the consideration and kind words. I'm sorry I made you worry.
Waiting on official results, but I've got the run in my watch so I'm not too fussed. It's not like there's prize money at stake or anything.
Will post race report tomorrow, probably. Feeling pretty shaky right now, going to nap and drink water.
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Alright!!! I didn't see your name on the leaderboard and I was like...SHIT
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As promised, technically still on Monday, a race report! This thing is like 2,700 words, so consider yourself warned.
+ Show Spoiler + Slept better than I thought I would–only woke up once, around 3am, worried that the double alarms I set off didn’t work. At 5am, they did. Got up, made oatmeal, drank coffee, felt nervous.
I’d spent the last five months getting ready for this and obsessing about it. I’m not sure why I care so much about running–it would certainly be more socially beneficial to love volunteering, or more profitable to love working overtime–but it seems that I do. During my run on Saturday, it finally hit me that I was as ready as I would ever be and that agonizing further would not be constructive.
In light of this, after my shakeout run yesterday, I’d asked my dad and my girlfriend, who traveled with me to the race, not to discuss it with me. This made conversation around the breakfast table a little awkward, but that soon passed and we headed out into the morning gloom.
Waiting for the train to the start line, we fell into conversation with two locals on their way to the race. They were wearing garbage bags, I suppose to keep warm, though Portland has been so hot this week (about 29 C or 84 F high each day) that they seemed unnecessary to me. The couple were lovely and friendly, though, just like almost everyone else in the city. When my girlfriend finishes her residency in 2016, there’s an outside chance we’ll have to move to the States. I would not mind living in Portland. Everyone is friendly and the place seems positively magical.
Then off the train, two or three block walk to the starting pen. I’d planned on a 20 minute warmup (jog for 5, stretch for 10, jog for 5 with a few race-pace accelerations), but that got shot to pieces when I entered the pen. Forty minutes before the start, the place was jammed like a sardine tin. Stood in line to pee for 20 minutes, spent another 10 getting my watch to sync, and realized I wouldn’t get to warm up at all. So I just stretched my achilles tendons and my neck a bit and tried to stay calm.
Wound up standing next to an older dude with a BMI of about 30 who told me he was running his 51st marathon and hoped to finish in five hours. When I asked him how he got into the “A” corral with an ETA like that, he said he knew the race director. I asked him for Portland advice and he said “I don’t really have any. There really aren’t any hills on this course.” My online research made me think this was wrong–Portland’s course has a very famous ascent to the St. John’s suspension bridge over the Wilamette River around mile 17. His words would turn out to be wrong, but not for the reasons I suspected.
Then a bunch of Yanks sang the national anthem and the wheelchair racers went off and then we got going.
I’m told that there are two certainties in life: death and taxes. I submit that the list needs an addition: starting too fast in a race.
Here, in the “A” corral, where the most experienced runners gather, everyone went out like bats out of hell. I tried to hold back a bit, but for the first 800m or so you’re pinned in like a buffalo in the middle of a stampeding herd. It didn’t help matters any that the race organizers put the first two musical acts in this section, and they both went in for lots of fast-paced drumming.
But things thinned out reasonably, right around the time I saw my dad and girlfriend for the first time. The course peeled out onto an uphill section next to the Wilamette, under overpasses and past big cheering crowds. We climbed for about 4k, which went fine. I was right around my goal pace and feeling good. Then we turned around and came back down. In retrospect, this is where I sowed the seeds of my later suffering.
I consciously tried to float down this prolonged, gentle downhill, letting gravity do some of the work while not attacking in any sense. But I hadn’t really practiced running at race pace going down a hill at any point in training. I hadn’t thought it was necessary. So I went a little faster than I meant to coming down here, passing a guy and closing in on the lead pack more than I wanted to. By the time things leveled out around 9k, the watch read 3:35/km, five seconds faster than I wanted to.
The doubling-back of the course also let me see the later waves getting going here. An absolutely mind-boggling number of people ran this race. I can’t imagine what the experience in Boston or New York or Chicago or Berlin is like.
The course leveled out here, and I settled in a bit, pulling things up to 3:38/km. The dude I passed came back up and we chatted for 5k or so. He told me he was shooting for a 2:40. Then a guy running the half in a Reed College singlet came by and I latched onto him until about 18k where the half and full courses split.
This bit goes into an industrial area, which would have been a bit boring if not for the gorgeous weather and the on-course entertainment. We ran past a bitchin’ funk band promoting gay rights and then, right after, an evangelical Christian gospel band. I thought the organizers probably had a good laugh when they made that decision. Then we hit the pirates, who were just a bunch of middle-aged people in really awesome pirate costumes. Lots of people on the course were trying to promote their radio station or their fitness business or their particular flavour of eternal salvation, but the only thing the pirates wanted us to do was “run, ye scurvy dogs!”
I liked them.
Then I saw my girlfriend and dad for the second last time before finishing. The course split so I lost my running buddies and I went off on my own to face the second half of the course.
It started out pretty well. The course wound through a beautiful neighbourhood with lots of fans, including one group that gave me a raucous cheer, and a couple sweet conver bands. My watch still said 3:38/km and I felt good, though a little worried about my effort level. My plan was to coast through the first half, make of focused effort to stay on pace for the next quarter, then give’er for all I was worth in the last quarter.
I felt like I was a little ahead of this schedule as the mileage got into the low 20k range. The course left the cozy neighbourhood and hit another industrial stretch, this one next to a highway. There were several gentle climbs here, but it was pretty flat on the whole.
The long site lines of the highway let me spot another runner in a neon singlet ahead of me. Without consciously deciding to, I reeled him in over about 3k, riding his shoulder until we hit the hill going up to St. John’s. We passed a Scottish band here, with two dudes puffing for all they were worth on the bagpipes. Turned out they were worth quite a bit.
As we went by, I thought about saying to my companion the old definition of a gentlemen (i.e. someone who knows how to play the bagpipes but does not), but something held me back. I was worried he would just look at me with disdain. Lots of people who run about as fast as I do seem to take things very seriously. I remember reading an essay once written by a runner of about my ability who had, by winning some race or other, gotten to run at an elite-only event and hang out with the people run seriously fast. The writer reported that real elites are much less uptight than sub-elites, who are too often, let’s face it, absolute assholes. This thought held me back.
We passed a gaggle of military people in camouflage and a sign reading “YOU ARE NOW ENTERING CHECKPOINT CHARLIE” and started going up. For my medium-long and long runs in training, I’d hit this hill in Edmonton coming out of Emily Murphy Park. It’s a pretty gnarly switchback that climbs around 70m over about 500m. I’d go up the hill with about 4k to go to home, but I worried all summer it wouldn’t be enough. Turned out it was too much: the dreaded St John’s hill was a very gentle incline for about half a mile, and that was pretty much it.
I’d dropped the neon singlet runner on the climb, though not from a conscious attack or anything. As I hit the sharp right turn at the end of the bridge, I could hear footsteps and heavy breathing behind me, and I thought he had picked it up and closed the gap. These footsteps shadowed me for a little bit, and then a voice said “Ah, I was kind of getting used to that nice downhill.” I turned and saw a new face–shaved head, sunglasses, knee socks, and a singlet that said “Bowerman” down the back. I’m able to describe the back of his shirt because, shortly after this, he passed me. My legs felt heavier than I wanted them to at this point (around 26k), though my watch read 3:40/km–right on pace.
The Bowerman runner pulled away gradually. He seemed like a good pacer and I tried to keep him in sight, but I was getting tired. The course returned to a neighbourhood here, and crowds came back with it. As they cheered me on and called out my name, raising my hand to wave felt hard. Smiling was hard.
A little way past 32k, the course hit a prolonged descent on a freeway. The Bowerman runner disappeared and left me in my own private world of pain. As I went down the freeway, my hamstrings started to spasm in a way they had not for years. It reminded me of my days playing basketball, when my legs would sometimes lock up totally after a hard practice, and I would lie in bed, unable to move, and bite the pillow so I didn’t scream.
It started in my right leg, near where my hamstring meets my butt. I tried to ignore it, but every couple minutes, it would tweak again, a little stronger and a little scarier. They started in my left leg. If both legs locked up a the same time, I would collapse on the road. There was no one around. It seemed so strange: the course was jammed with people in so many places, but here, where I might need someone to pick me up and try to gather my teeth before they rolled too far away, I was on my own.
I decided that running 2:40 was better than trying to force a 2:35 and DNFing. I stopped to stretch. This helped a bit, though I could feel my body start to kind of congeal as soon as I wasn’t moving. It felt like my system was ready to shut down the second I stopped moving, so I gingerly pressed on, trying to ease back into something like race pace again.
Toward the end of the interminable descent, I almost went off the course. I only ate 10 gummy bears and about four Dixie cups of water for the race, and I think the lack of calories really started to weigh on my brain here.
Where the course passed a freeway exit, the marking wasn’t totally clear and there was no volunteer to keep me on course. I climbed about a third of the way up the exit before I noticed a group of people walking the marathon on the road down below. I asked them where the course was and they said it was down with them.
I said some bad words, swung my legs over the metal railing, and lowered myself onto the road. My legs really, really didn’t like this. I said some more bad words, stretched for a few seconds, and staggered on.
A little later, at around 37k, I hit the last climb of the race: a short ascent onto a bridge over the Wilamette. I hauled my sorry ass onto the bridge and tried to push for the finish. I passed my dad, who was taking pictures, and all I could manage was a kind of half-grimace.
Back in downtown Portland, the marathon course rejoined the half route. There were lots of people cheering and lots of people I had to pass. I brushed a couple accidentally. I saw a guy dressed as Darth Vader, riding a unicycle, and playing the bagpipes. A cyclist almost ran me over.
In my half-crazed state, I realized I had about 10 minutes to run two kilometres if I wanted to get under 2:40. I couldn’t help laughing a bit at this. Two 5:00/k! How had it come to pass that this, which usually was as easy as blowing my nose, now seemed like one of the labors of Hercules? After two previous marathons, I thought I knew how to handle the distance, but Portland taught me that I still have much to learn. I saw my girlfriend in the crowd for the last time. She cheered wildly and lifted my spirits, but all I could do was kind of raise my eyebrows and open my mouth.
I eventually staggered over the finish with 2:39:something showing on the clock. Going into this, I thought I had the strength to challenge 2:35 or maybe run 2:34:xx on a really great day. I’m proud I hung on to break 2:40 (and set a new PB after going 2:54 two years ago on a much easier course), but also a bit embarrassed that I ran such a foolish race. I went out too fast and didn’t eat or drink anywhere near enough.
My condition immediately after the race and one day later both speak to this. I was absolutely wiped out for two or three hours after the race. I was hungry but could not eat, thirsty, but could not drink, and tired, but could not sleep. I eventually had a bit of a nap and then water started to taste good again. Today I feel pretty good, with the exception of my quads, which seem to have been replaced with a cheap cardboard substitute when I wasn’t paying attention. So I don’t think I ran as fast as I could have, but I still went faster than I’ve ever done. And I’ve got some truly world-class beer and dining to enjoy while I mull things over and think about what marathon I’ll run next year.
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Nice writeup and well done race.
I wonder a bit about your preparation, but I havent run a race yet so I'm fairly unknowing. You trained your body and mind for months and months and months but didnt know the route of the marathon in detail. I dont think I could go into something like that without knowing every stone on the course from google earth or similar.
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On October 06 2014 03:47 Don_Julio wrote:Bonham either DNF or it's a technical issue. Damn. Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 02:16 FFGenerations wrote: yo hi runners.
when i run when i exhale i do this goldfish puff out cheeks things OR i do the between-the-teeth TSSSSSSSS thing when i exhale
its like i'm incapable of/dont want to exhale quickly/fully at once, so i do it gradually to begin with then the last bit i exhale quickly and normally.
why do i do this? is it bad? im trying to exhale quickly and fully with open mouth/lung is it coz (im) a smoker so my body doesnt like fast air going out of my lungs because it can cause pain/damage? thats the only thing i could think of really Don't think too much about breathing. What happens when you don't focus at it all should be close to ideal. Most runners don't breathe in a 1:1 in-/exhale rythm. I usually have 2:2 rythm, that's two times breathing in and two times exhaling. It can change if I'm running at an unusual fast or slow pace. Every breath lines up with a step. But again, I don't do this consciously most of the time. Make sure to not run too fast. Most of your runs should be run at a "conversational pace" which means you should be able to maintain a converation with someone else. Do some strides at the end of your run if that's too slow and boring.
idk its concerning coz it didnt feel logically optimal and also (altho i cudnt visually see) probably produced an insane 27 minute torrent of spittle infront of me. anyway yeah i was running way WAY too fast, for the hell of it, i usually dont do that
u know what, next time ill try a 2:2 rythyum, maybe thats what i was naturally trying to accomplish but instead produced the goldfishblow/teeth sheer effect. now you said 2:2 rytham i think i know what you mean and can try that
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On October 07 2014 19:27 Yrr wrote:Nice writeup and well done race. I wonder a bit about your preparation, but I havent run a race yet so I'm fairly unknowing. You trained your body and mind for months and months and months but didnt know the route of the marathon in detail. I dont think I could go into something like that without knowing every stone on the course from google earth or similar.
Thanks for reading! I actually looked at the course in some detail online beforehand and read as many race reports as I could find. I knew where all the major hills and bridges were. I didn't memorize every turn, true, but I think my main undoing was failing to prepare for the downhills (which, again, I knew were there) and not eating enough.
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Nice write up, and some pretty damn strong running. You definitely ran 2:40 the hard way.
It sounds like you kept your effort consistent on the downs, which means the pacing was probably fine but the eccentric stress on your quads might still have played a role.
Going to be fun to see how quick you can go next go round. Obviously some time can be saved with a little more conservative early pacing (more and more the WRs are being set with a conservative opening strategy and then being able to pour some on in the latter half). Biggest thing I think though is seeing if you can solve the nutrition challenge. Anyway you look at it, taking in that little food and water is a major performance issue. Can't quantify an exact number, but I guarantee you the impacts of that are on the order of multiple minutes or more, there just isn't enough fuel for the race without taking some in while running.
I think I've asked you, but have you played with calories in liquid form? If not, it might be worth playing with because figuring that out is worth it's weight in gold and then some.
Seriously though, badass race and nice to see a respectable result come from that solid training cycle. Hopefully LuckyFool and myself will have some sweet race reports here in the coming few months to add to the party!
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awesome writeup! read all of it. Makes me itching to get out and destroy my marathon in a couple weeks!
I'm totally ready for my marathon, training has gone SO much better than last year. I really don't know what to shoot for goal wise though, I have a pretty wide range of somewhere in the ballpark of 3:30-3:45. I've discussed it with a few people and they all recommend to go out conservatively and then pick it up in the second half (seems like that sort of race is what leads to the best times, but its very hard to have the discipline to do that)
My last race a few weeks ago was a 10K which I ran in 43:09, and my last long run on Saturday (22 miles) was done in 3:12:13, but that included lots of slower miles early on and I actually felt pretty good at the end. I think 3:30 is definitely possible but I'm scared of flaming out(I have a shitty history to this point in halfs/my last full). I have one more 16 miler planned on Saturday and then a 12 "dress rehearsal" run a week before to feel out my intended race pace but have already started tapering a bit.
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Ran 10x400 or so today. Was hoping for the track but had to settle for an undulating little dirt section. First few quite easy, then was cruising nice around 5:10-5:20 pace under pretty good control.
Kinda feels the same as last season, feels like there is some good potential there feeling that relaxed at lower 5's on dirt...but in April I really flamed out hard, I think in part because I just didn't have the base. Hopefully with the cycling and this time actually running 30-50 mpw I'll be able to build and put together some nice times in a few months.
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Great race, Bonham. Congrats on that time and thanks for the report.
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On October 08 2014 03:12 L_Master wrote:
It sounds like you kept your effort consistent on the downs, which means the pacing was probably fine but the eccentric stress on your quads might still have played a role.
Going to be fun to see how quick you can go next go round. Obviously some time can be saved with a little more conservative early pacing (more and more the WRs are being set with a conservative opening strategy and then being able to pour some on in the latter half). Biggest thing I think though is seeing if you can solve the nutrition challenge. Anyway you look at it, taking in that little food and water is a major performance issue. Can't quantify an exact number, but I guarantee you the impacts of that are on the order of multiple minutes or more, there just isn't enough fuel for the race without taking some in while running.
I think I've asked you, but have you played with calories in liquid form? If not, it might be worth playing with because figuring that out is worth it's weight in gold and then some.
Thanks for reading–and for keeping little community running. I love the TL running thread, and I know it wouldn't exist without you.
I think you're right that nutrition is my biggest weakpoint in the marathon. I've always had problems with my GI system when engaged in athletics, and the marathon demands that you get your house in order or you cannot pass go. Portland went especially poorly: though I'd practiced eating gummy bears on long runs all summer (usually between 20-30 total), I didn't pay enough attention to where the bears would be available on the race course and in what quantity. I was surprised when they handed the bears out in cups of 5, which I think is around 45 calories, and only had them available at six or so stations along the route.
I haven't tried liquids much to date, in part because I don't like spilling sticky stuff all over myself and in part because I don't like carrying things with me when I run. Both are easier to bear than running out of glycogen, though, so I think I should give them a shot. I'm planning to experiment with some on longer treadmill runs this winter.
Regarding running downhill, do you have any insight on how to prepare for it? I'm a bit scared to do much speedwork or tempo running going down hills in training because I'm scared of destroying my knees.
On October 08 2014 03:12 L_Master wrote:
Seriously though, badass race and nice to see a respectable result come from that solid training cycle. Hopefully LuckyFool and myself will have some sweet race reports here in the coming few months to add to the party!
Coming from you, that means a lot. I know Lucky's got his marathon coming up, but I'm afraid I've lost track of your goal race(s). Can you fill me in?
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On October 08 2014 08:57 LuckyFool wrote: awesome writeup! read all of it. Makes me itching to get out and destroy my marathon in a couple weeks!
I'm totally ready for my marathon, training has gone SO much better than last year. I really don't know what to shoot for goal wise though, I have a pretty wide range of somewhere in the ballpark of 3:30-3:45. I've discussed it with a few people and they all recommend to go out conservatively and then pick it up in the second half (seems like that sort of race is what leads to the best times, but its very hard to have the discipline to do that)
My last race a few weeks ago was a 10K which I ran in 43:09, and my last long run on Saturday (22 miles) was done in 3:12:13, but that included lots of slower miles early on and I actually felt pretty good at the end. I think 3:30 is definitely possible but I'm scared of flaming out(I have a shitty history to this point in halfs/my last full). I have one more 16 miler planned on Saturday and then a 12 "dress rehearsal" run a week before to feel out my intended race pace but have already started tapering a bit.
Good luck! I'm not sure the way I ran that race should do anything but warn people of of the dangers of the marathon, but I'm flattered you read it.
Anyway, I think cranking out 22 and feeling pretty good positions you well for the race itself. The taper and the excitement of the occasion will add a lot of speed to your stride on race day and tempt you to destroy yourself, so your strategy is totally the right one. Executing it will be the challenge. I think a range of goals (say, A<3:30, B=3:30, C=3:40) is a good way to make sure you run a solid race. When things went sideways for me around 28k, I could feel my "A" goal slipping away, but knowing that I had another goal that was still within grasp kept my morale up and stopped my from quitting.
When is the race?
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On October 09 2014 00:07 Don_Julio wrote: Great race, Bonham. Congrats on that time and thanks for the report.
Thanks Don! It's tough not to think of what I would do differently next time, but luckily there is a next time on tap for me. I'm confident my PB is still ahead of me, barring bad luck.
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On October 09 2014 13:11 Bonham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2014 03:12 L_Master wrote:
It sounds like you kept your effort consistent on the downs, which means the pacing was probably fine but the eccentric stress on your quads might still have played a role.
Going to be fun to see how quick you can go next go round. Obviously some time can be saved with a little more conservative early pacing (more and more the WRs are being set with a conservative opening strategy and then being able to pour some on in the latter half). Biggest thing I think though is seeing if you can solve the nutrition challenge. Anyway you look at it, taking in that little food and water is a major performance issue. Can't quantify an exact number, but I guarantee you the impacts of that are on the order of multiple minutes or more, there just isn't enough fuel for the race without taking some in while running.
I think I've asked you, but have you played with calories in liquid form? If not, it might be worth playing with because figuring that out is worth it's weight in gold and then some.
Thanks for reading–and for keeping little community running. I love the TL running thread, and I know it wouldn't exist without you. I think you're right that nutrition is my biggest weakpoint in the marathon. I've always had problems with my GI system when engaged in athletics, and the marathon demands that you get your house in order or you cannot pass go. Portland went especially poorly: though I'd practiced eating gummy bears on long runs all summer (usually between 20-30 total), I didn't pay enough attention to where the bears would be available on the race course and in what quantity. I was surprised when they handed the bears out in cups of 5, which I think is around 45 calories, and only had them available at six or so stations along the route. I haven't tried liquids much to date, in part because I don't like spilling sticky stuff all over myself and in part because I don't like carrying things with me when I run. Both are easier to bear than running out of glycogen, though, so I think I should give them a shot. I'm planning to experiment with some on longer treadmill runs this winter. Regarding running downhill, do you have any insight on how to prepare for it? I'm a bit scared to do much speedwork or tempo running going down hills in training because I'm scared of destroying my knees. Show nested quote +On October 08 2014 03:12 L_Master wrote:
Seriously though, badass race and nice to see a respectable result come from that solid training cycle. Hopefully LuckyFool and myself will have some sweet race reports here in the coming few months to add to the party!
Coming from you, that means a lot. I know Lucky's got his marathon coming up, but I'm afraid I've lost track of your goal race(s). Can you fill me in?
Yea, I wouldn't want to carry them either. I know you can't do like the elites and have your prepared bottle at station, but if you had a good support crew they could hand your drinks to you (iirc this is legal). I suggest this mainly because you do seem to have significantly more trouble than usual with any solid form of calories. I'd experiment with like everything under the sun, and if nothing works perhaps try liquid fueling.
As for my races, pretty much winter 5k cycle. Not sure what my goals are, I'd like to break 18 again regardless of what happens, and if I somehow manage to find the willpower to not occasionally stuff my face with junk food I really think a 17 low or 16 high would be potentially attainable. I know I've talked about it a good deal, but you don't see truly good runners on the local with a BMI of 24.
This also depends on whether I can support my base. Last spring time things were going awesome for a month and a half...and then the wheels fell off. Coming back from injury I didn't have the support and as I transitioned into the harder training and lowered the running volume a little it was minimal enough I lost fitness. I'm hoping with significantly more miles run consistently, not to mention an awesome cycling base, I'll be okay this time around.
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I am a total KB fanboy, but Kipchoge will be hard to beat. I hope they both break Kimetto's record and Kenny B outsprints Kipchoge in the last 800m.
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On October 10 2014 08:51 Bonham wrote: I am a total KB fanboy, but Kipchoge will be hard to beat. I hope they both break Kimetto's record and Kenny B outsprints Kipchoge in the last 800m.
Haha Kenster drops a 3:56 last mile w/53 second last 400 to win in 2:03:02. That would be something.
I don't really know what to expect, I'm slightly leaning Kenenisa but man it's hard to know. Kipchoge is excellent, but Bekele had a great debut and could easily improve off that.
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