The chargelot just is not a good unit. It's a dumb one. It's an incredibly tanky light unit, that has a distance-closing mechanic to compensate for it being a slow melee unit. But because of the way it's designed, a wave of chargelots just bunch up, and either are so tanky that they eventually beat out the kiting Terran, or the Terran manages to kite them till their dead. You don't -really- do anything to control them. You actually just let the zealots derp at the army while you do other stuff, like macro at home, or use archons + stalkers to focus down medivacs (oh the micro!). Comparing that to what the Terran is doing, it's a total joke.
I'm not saying that there aren't things to do to make compositions that include zealots and archons micro-intensive. It's just that the zealot unit, and the archon unit are both derpy non-micro heavy units, which imo, are bad for the game. The Zergling + Baneling + Roach composition seems a lot better to me, but I'll be honest and say that even that is pretty a-movish. You try and get your surround with the lings, and you make sure the banelings split up and track the big clumps of bio, and you let the roaches do whatever. The Terran is ALWAYS doing the heavy micro in those fights. Also, when Zerg gets a significant lead, they often just morph 50+ banelings (only 25 supply btw) and a-move into Terrans to close out the game. This seems dumb to me, but Zerg already have a bit of a hard time closing out games, in my opinion, so whatever.
Let us watch again the decisive battle between MMA and PartinG. See how much Terran has to do in that situation: he would need to EMP all the Archons and focus the weak ones to kill them off while simultaneously retreating Ghosts in danger and hitting & running with the rest of his army; an insurmountable task if you're not called Automaton 2000. Meanwhile, PartinG can sip the drink of his choice pressing the T key. MMA will necessarily make a copious amount of mistakes solely due to the micro requirements; PartinG cannot be wrong a-moving Zealots/Archons.
No really, I played both races, there is no way you can compare micro of P and T in a Chargelot/archons vs bio fight.
Let us watch again the decisive battle between MMA and PartinG. See how much Terran has to do in that situation: he would need to EMP all the Archons and focus the weak ones to kill them off while simultaneously retreating Ghosts in danger and hitting & running with the rest of his army; an insurmountable task if you're not called Automaton 2000. Meanwhile, PartinG can sip the drink of his choice pressing the T key. MMA will necessarily make a copious amount of mistakes solely due to the micro requirements; PartinG cannot be wrong a-moving Zealots/Archons.
No really, I played both races, there is no way you can compare micro of P and T in a Chargelot/archons vs bio fight.
It isn't about the balance, it's about how exciting the games were. With mines available now or possibly other options we're able to make chargelot archon more balanced. This is what mines were intended to do, but instead they eliminated it.
On March 31 2015 04:58 DinoMight wrote: This is pretty irrelevant since there is little to no incentive for Terrans to go bio in LotV.
Mech every game...
Protoss still too stronk for mech.
Cyclones, flying siege tanks, no immortal shields.
We randomly listing things? Okay: carriers.
We're not randomly listing things. We're listing things that combined will mech a viable playstyle vs Protoss.
It's pretty clear that Blizzard wants mech to work vs. Protoss, they're doing damn near everything they can to make it viable and even said in the patch that the Immortal nerf was to facilitate mech play vs P.
Carriers are not the reason mech isn't viable, and they can be countered with Vikings/Widow Mines (which requires the Protoss to get Templar, then the Terran to get Ghosts, etc.. there is back and forth). It's the early-mid game strength of the Immortal. And both its high damage to mechanical AND high resistance to Tank fire.
Immortals without hardened shields MELT to Tanks/Hellbats.
Thors will go from doing 20 damage to 60-78.
This Immortal nerf is absolutely massive and if people don't think it will change things... well, Beta's out tomorrow and I'm betting you it will...
On March 31 2015 05:43 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Isn't the problem quite simple? Colossus.
I've only used the unit tester but it looks like in addition to the nerf to the range upgrade, the Colossus's damage was reduced from 15(+2)(x2) to 12(+1)(x2), which may make it less viable against everything.
I like the idea of more diverse openers for any matchup. I think the crux of whatever problem may exist with the matchup is the fact that the Terran unit composition is pretty much always the same. Blizzard has always said they wanted to make mech viable in PvT. Let's increase diversity where it's lacking, not handcuff it where it's not.
Let us watch again the decisive battle between MMA and PartinG. See how much Terran has to do in that situation: he would need to EMP all the Archons and focus the weak ones to kill them off while simultaneously retreating Ghosts in danger and hitting & running with the rest of his army; an insurmountable task if you're not called Automaton 2000. Meanwhile, PartinG can sip the drink of his choice pressing the T key. MMA will necessarily make a copious amount of mistakes solely due to the micro requirements; PartinG cannot be wrong a-moving Zealots/Archons.
No really, I played both races, there is no way you can compare micro of P and T in a Chargelot/archons vs bio fight.
when i offrace as protoss the terran most of the time just emps all my hts and then kites the rest of my army to death because my protoss micro sucks. maybe protoss micro doesn't look as fancy as terran micro but constantly spreading your templar or dropping them from warpprisms while simultaneously trying to flank the bio army is far from easy. I would say it's equally hard as bio micro.
Let us watch again the decisive battle between MMA and PartinG. See how much Terran has to do in that situation: he would need to EMP all the Archons and focus the weak ones to kill them off while simultaneously retreating Ghosts in danger and hitting & running with the rest of his army; an insurmountable task if you're not called Automaton 2000. Meanwhile, PartinG can sip the drink of his choice pressing the T key. MMA will necessarily make a copious amount of mistakes solely due to the micro requirements; PartinG cannot be wrong a-moving Zealots/Archons.
No really, I played both races, there is no way you can compare micro of P and T in a Chargelot/archons vs bio fight.
when i offrace as protoss the terran most of the time just emps all my hts and then kites the rest of my army to death because my protoss micro sucks. maybe protoss micro doesn't look as fancy as terran micro but constantly spreading your templar or dropping them from warpprisms while simultaneously trying to flank the bio army is far from easy. I would say it's equally hard as bio micro.
This is what happens when I play a Terran that's better than me. He gets perfect EMPs so I have no storm, attacks my Colossi from over unpassable terrain with his vikings, and kites the whole rest of my army to death. And as soon as I warp in 12 Zealots to reinforce there 's a drop in each of my bases.
The micro required on the Protoss side is not flashy but it exists and it's hard especially because 1-2 good EMPs can make all your HT's useless in literally 1 second.
So you need to spread your HTs out, but not so far apart that your storms aren't all available where the battle is going on. And you need to make sure your Zealots are tanking damage, but not running too far ahead that they're getting hit but the Colos aren't able to hit the bio. And you need to focus fire your Stalkers on their Vikings while moving your Colossus away from the vikings (but towards the bio if possible). Also, you need to make sure none of your units are running into Widow mines which is hard when you have no observers because Scan + Vikings. So you need to micro your observers to stay close to your army but not wander off and get killed.
There are a lot of moving parts and vs a skilled Terran opponent none of this is easy.