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On August 28 2015 05:11 Souma wrote: No, you cannot practice entrying into sites in DM. Everyone spawns all over the place. DMing is for developing muscle memory and twitch aim, not working angles.
yeah thats true, sure work your angles in Casual. Id rather do it in MM. I feel thats a better way to spend my time.
The whole point of dodging MM in it of itself to practice these things seems silly to me.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
Or I can do both, you know. Casual has the added benefit of having tons of people on one site and tons of angles to work in a round.
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On August 28 2015 05:14 Souma wrote: Or I can do both, you know. Casual has the added benefit of having tons of people on one site and tons of angles to work in a round.
You can do both. I cant, like I said if I have limited time to spend on the game this is how I would choose to spend it.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
That's fine, so long as you don't pass off casual as something meaningless and purely "cancerous" you can play whatever you want whenever you want however you want.
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On August 28 2015 05:18 Souma wrote: That's fine, so long as you don't pass off casual as something meaningless and purely "cancerous" you can play whatever you want whenever you want however you want.
Its cancerous and I will still play whatever I want, whenever I want, however I want...
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
Okay well, it can be cancerous but the first thing I do whenever I join a casual server is mute everyone, so that ends up being moot. =)
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people do not only take Casual way to serious: You play casual for example when you watch a stream and do not give a fuck about sounds, steps or being late in a round. Just kill something here and there, watch the stream, then kill more. But these guys often take MM way to serious: If some guys see a smurf, they instand flame and shout out and start playing bad. If they lose some 1v1s, even key 1v1s, they shout out "what the fuck" or "why you dont kill him" and when you lose such a 1v1, they going full mad. I cannot understand how people who do not play for money take even MM so serious. The game shall make fun but people seem to have more stress with MM then with their women or boss. And thats not the point of MM, even a full squad of only russian speaking players who dont use tactics in higher ranks shouldnt make you so mad. Else the game might be wrong for you. Find positive ways to approach the game even it is a clear lose due to team mates or whatsoever. Hold angles till you are the only left and play lerroy jenkins, buy zeus and show the enemy that you are supperior. Get kicked and be happy about getting out of the game.
When the game makes you mad, you failed. You did not fail when you lost.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
That's some deep stuff, man.
I agree, but I still like arguing with Nagi in game because he's lame. =)
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On August 28 2015 05:21 Souma wrote: Okay well, it can be cancerous but the first thing I do whenever I join a casual server is mute everyone, so that ends up being moot. =)
You know what Ill be open minded about this and give it a go. But i'll be honest Ive made it all the way to + Show Spoiler +http://www.eswc.com/cs-history/2007.html in 1.6 playing only on LAN (gaming cafes) and I absolutely detested playing in open servers back then too.
We were probalby only low level Cal i level and top Cal I and shitty Cal I may aswell have been different leagues iirc, but still was nice to get raped by Fnatic with HMG's and shotties. Till we won 8 rounds and they were like.. ohhh wait. No... Maybe we werent even Cal i level tbh since our map pool was basically D2 and inferno against decent teams.
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I don't really get why you get so defensive about casual. In the end, its a shit gamemode than no one ever take seriously and that should be replaced by unranked 5v5. Everytime I've been forced to play it (by missions and stuff) its been a borefest, getting 30kills in 10rounds running around with no sound while watching a stream, killing people who have no idea what they are doing. If you want to practice taking sites, you might as well play retake maps.
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oops. I always mistake edit with quote with the new TL layout, goddamnit.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
You're obviously taking it seriously if you're getting 'headaches' from it.
I don't care if people hate it as a game mode but if you're gonna sit here and tell me that you can't get valuable practice from it then I'm going to tell you that you're wrong, plain and simple.
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Well okay sure. Im certainly not getting anything out of casual, but maybe you are and we'll leave it at that.
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On August 26 2015 11:23 Souma wrote: What? Nerves are a mental thing, not a skill thing. Just because you pick up an AWP doesn't mean you'll automatically get over your nerves. well, duh, that's why you should keep doing it even if it isn't going that well
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How can you hate on casual? it's an intrinsic part of the counter-strike experience! It also has a very specific dynamic that may not have much to do with serious play but it still teaches you a lot about how people think and act in a group environment and how much you can accomplish if you only mention one of your observations or break free of that mentality and do something unexpected.
Yesterday we were down 0:6 in casual on mirage simply because not a single CT ever went B and the Ts would just rush it and get a bomb planted. I politely told my teammates it's going to be difficult to make anything happen if we start each round with a disadvantage like that and guess what, we split half/half, caught the Ts completely off-guard on B and turned the game around.
Also figuring out this blind spot that your mates have been ignoring round after round and solo/duo rushing it is a great way to get surprise kills and this is something that pros often take advantage of as well. A classic example would be the dust2 catwalk madman rush.
I think you can learn quite a bit from casual as long as you realize the mechanics in MM will be vastly different. But the psychology and mind gaming techniques you can try to pull off aren't that different. After all, you are still up against people.
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On August 28 2015 08:43 Souma wrote: You're obviously taking it seriously if you're getting 'headaches' from it.
I don't care if people hate it as a game mode but if you're gonna sit here and tell me that you can't get valuable practice from it then I'm going to tell you that you're wrong, plain and simple.
It's basically the same practice you can gain while playing against bots. I don't enjoy it at all, I did enjoy pubs from the betas until early 1.6 because we had fun community servers where everyone knew eachother and you had a lot of high skill players on them. After that not so much.
I don't really see what practice you can get out of casual that you can't get in MM.Bet then again I've never really practiced anything specifically outside my aim. I still go around solely relying on aim and experience/positioning. My flashes, smokes etc are terrible :p.
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France9034 Posts
I would quite agree with Souma about casual.
Aim -> DM/Aimmap/anything Nades -> Empty server + script Angles/Sites/Maps overall ->..... well I think casual is the only mode where you can do that if you don't want to "practice" in MM matches.
It's perfectly fine to do that (practice in MM), but in the end I like to approach it like a competitive game (don't worry, that's loads of fun for me), practicing outside of the ranked ladder, going into ranked games gathering all the stuff I learned / practiced and go 100% for the victory (in a respectful way).
So I like casual as well for working out angles, trying to go for awesome pop flashes and shit (shame you can carry only one, but with 20 people, yeah, would be quite a mess), or trying to enter sites while not caring because it's fucking casual mode. And yeah, the thing is, people will play like shit most of the time, but who cares, they are moving targets at worse, decent opponents (at my level) at best.
And having nothing to lose is good, as I still cherish a bit my ranking because that's the only way, even if inaccurate, to have somehow an indicator to my level and more importantly to my current trend (improving, getting worse?). Having nothing to lose just make me go for it, whereas in competitive there's stakes and the confidence is not always here. So if I can find a place where I can do that when we aren't 10 on the Community server, that's cool! If I can build up confidence about how to take or retake, then that's mission accomplished for me.
The only problem is that you can mostly practice d2 -_-
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No way.. best way to practice angles/sites & maps is retake servers for sure.
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I would say it probably depends on your level too. Usually in retake servers you're facing more difficult opponents but sometimes they just mess around too. I prefer retake servers for learning the angles and good areas to play on a map because its a more realistic scenario (assuming <9 people in server). Casual is probably best for lower level people to learn how to deal with hoards of enemies, learning all the timings, and everything else mentioned in this thread so far.
My contribution to this thread is to never play with anyone named wala.
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Yea sure, I can agree with that, casual is useful for new people who are getting into the game and don't really know Dust2 (because realistically its the only map you will be playing) and the occasional other map. That being said, after that point I don't really see the point, but maybe its because I really don't care that much about MM or ranks. But if you don't want to play mm, I still maintain that retakes server are better to practice attacking/defending a site.
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