My concern is the following: there are certainly a number of experienced casters and/or players out there who understand the right way to conduct themselves when they are participating in a high profile event, and do so differently than they might conduct themselves on their private channel, stream or show. One example would be the use of profanity. There are certainly some players and casters, who use profanity when they are conducting their own stream or their own show and that is their perogative, because the worst that happens is if someone doesn't like them swearing, they don't watch the show or the stream and it only hurts that particular player or caster. in some cases, maybe it generates more interest, who knows. But if casters are casting for an important tournament, for example Dreamhack, or other events of a similar level, then I think they need to seriously think about having a certain level of professionalism in doing this which ought to include avoiding the use of profanity. I have noticed that in some cases this is not happening and as a fan of the game and of following these big tournaments it is a turnoff. I do think that casters who do things like use profanity when casting for a big event are not doing themselves or their reputations any favours and thus for their own success and to improve the image of e-sports and this game in particular, should rethink this. SC2 events are not just watched by 16 year olds who might not care whether or not the F-word gets thrown out one or more times in a cast.There are sponsors, there are adults watching these things too, and not having the right professional attitude at events that get large viewership detracts from the legitimacy of e-sports to outsiders in my view. I'm not naming names because I'm not trying to make anyone look bad. But if a caster is going to put in a lot of effort and time into their job, lack of professionalism devalues that time investment. Improving on this issue will help improve the image of e-sports.
Casting: Professionalism vs Profanity
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baabaa
Canada29 Posts
My concern is the following: there are certainly a number of experienced casters and/or players out there who understand the right way to conduct themselves when they are participating in a high profile event, and do so differently than they might conduct themselves on their private channel, stream or show. One example would be the use of profanity. There are certainly some players and casters, who use profanity when they are conducting their own stream or their own show and that is their perogative, because the worst that happens is if someone doesn't like them swearing, they don't watch the show or the stream and it only hurts that particular player or caster. in some cases, maybe it generates more interest, who knows. But if casters are casting for an important tournament, for example Dreamhack, or other events of a similar level, then I think they need to seriously think about having a certain level of professionalism in doing this which ought to include avoiding the use of profanity. I have noticed that in some cases this is not happening and as a fan of the game and of following these big tournaments it is a turnoff. I do think that casters who do things like use profanity when casting for a big event are not doing themselves or their reputations any favours and thus for their own success and to improve the image of e-sports and this game in particular, should rethink this. SC2 events are not just watched by 16 year olds who might not care whether or not the F-word gets thrown out one or more times in a cast.There are sponsors, there are adults watching these things too, and not having the right professional attitude at events that get large viewership detracts from the legitimacy of e-sports to outsiders in my view. I'm not naming names because I'm not trying to make anyone look bad. But if a caster is going to put in a lot of effort and time into their job, lack of professionalism devalues that time investment. Improving on this issue will help improve the image of e-sports. | ||
BreAKerTV
Taiwan1656 Posts
Conversely I remember (2012 era) watching the GSL and Artosis made a remark about the minimap of one of the maps being played, he said, "The minimap here looks like a Panda. Yeah, it's a real mind-fuck when you finally realize it, but it does indeed." Or again, something like that. I do specifically remember him using the term "mind-fuck." If you ask me the difference between these two instances, one is a personal attack on a player. Another one is simply a remark with some profanity added in to it. The only other thing I can say is, let's take a moment to reflect what Riot Games' stance is on profanity vs. personal attacks, with a statistic they had churned up. Please note that this is highly taken out of context and is more of a remark on how people perceive personal attacks: Riot's charity to LGBT community with LCS player fines: Suicide prevention and homophobia is something that the LoL community feels strongly about too. When we looked at in-game reports, we found that games that included the word 'faggot' in their chat log received 165.84% more reports than games that included the word 'fuck'. Likewise, you were swift to punish players who encouraged others towards suicide in the heat of the moment - games that included 'kill yourself' in their chat logs received 225.65% more reports than games that included the word 'fuck'. TL;DR - I see nothing wrong with profanity as long as there are no personal attacks (on players or audience) involved, but it isn't likely to sit with the community at all because every big org's goal is to make sure their eSports product (be it LCS, WCS, Smite world championships, or ESL One) can be televised. | ||
coverpunch
United States2093 Posts
Using profanity or obscenities to attack others is totally unacceptable in a professional context and I'm sure most if not all tournaments and teams have codes of conduct that bar such things. | ||
aQuaSC
717 Posts
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lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22271 Posts
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Para199x
United Kingdom40 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On November 28 2015 12:43 Para199x wrote: I don't understand this at all. Is anybody actually harmed or upset by somebody saying "fuck"? It just doesn't give a professional vibe, which can turn potential sponsors and potential fans away from the game. | ||
bigbadgreen
United States142 Posts
On November 28 2015 12:43 Para199x wrote: I don't understand this at all. Is anybody actually harmed or upset by somebody saying "fuck"? actually yes there are people that are harmed. Not in the way you think, there is no physical harm but it can harm the ability to attract sponsors to future events. If you want to grow the scene you have to clean up the mainstream events. Sponsors don't want their products tied to profanity and possible insults. Even if parents aren't watching the stream if they happen to be nearby and hear an f-bomb or a midget joke it could result in one less viewer. That is not to say I am against swearing, I do it myself. It's a time and place kind of thing. I won't drop them in front of my 3 year old but I will use them in the right crowd. I am 36 and pretty laid back, but sometimes streams will make me cringe when I hear some things. It goes along the lines of the NFL. There is a lot of swearing on the sidelines of games and on the field but you don't hear players swearing in press conferences, or announcers swearing in the booths. This is to cater to sponsors and the ability to grow the sport and make more money. Like the OP said, in a personal stream or content if a person chooses to use profanity that it their choice and I am all for it, but when you start to represent something bigger than yourself you have to tone it down a bit. It is a needed step to being able to keep the scene alive. | ||
Nakajin
Canada8780 Posts
On November 28 2015 12:43 Para199x wrote: I don't understand this at all. Is anybody actually harmed or upset by somebody saying "fuck"? Personaly it dosen't upset me because english is not my first language, but I can understand that some people find it out of place, if there was a french canadian event with people swearing a lot it may very well made me unconfortable or even mute the commentary. But I don't feel like SC2 is that bad compare to other esport. | ||
NewSunshine
United States5651 Posts
On a tangent, people need to learn that profanity should have nothing to do with the words you use, but the way you use them. I can craft an eloquent speech, nuanced at every turn to deconstruct your psyche and drive you mad, without a single so-called curse word. If I just throw out the word shit, that has no meaning. It's a comma. Consider why profanity is supposedly offensive in the first place. Words are a vehicle of expression. Someone sends you a hurtful letter, you don't blame the postal service. | ||
BronzeKnee
United States5208 Posts
If I see Demuslim on screen as a caster, the stream goes off (which is making watching the current Dreamhack quite hard). I've heard him say rape so many times on a cast and it isn't funny at all as someone who works with rape victims. This language that gamers have developed is much like the Confederate Flag. Gamers will claim it means something different, that it is somehow okay, but it isn't. It is downright offensive to so many people, and needs to be a thing of the past. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
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crappen
Norway1546 Posts
You can take your "professionalism" and shuv it up your ass. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
RichardNPL
185 Posts
On November 28 2015 12:32 aQuaSC wrote: I agree with OP as well, I also noticed that there is a growing trend of putting tons of inside jokes into discussion, which ultimately made me fast-forward or mute most of the in-between talks of the games on WCS Finals this year. I don't know, I believe there would be nothing wrong with keeping stuff professional and not getting it overly humorous - which at times even I, following the scene very close, don't understand in its entirety. I'm tired of hearing things like "rottibuild" being thrown around over and over again where someone is playing out proxy Tempest or anything, which in my opinion can develop annoying, unnecessary connections with people from the scene that someone may not like. I agree about the inbetween talks being sometimes downright silly. It looks as if they're having a private conversation in their living room, it should be more about the audience(making more eye contact with the camera,). | ||
motbob
United States12546 Posts
Your most important point is re: sponsors. I think that, in general, a sponsor who is put off by profanity is not likely to get involved in esports anyway. If a sponsor dislikes profanity because they're uptight and puritanical, there are a lot of other parts of esports that are going to turn them off eventually. If a sponsor dislikes profanity because they are looking to target a family audience with their sponsorship, then that sponsor will quickly receive a reality check when they read the demographic figures from events. Esports is competitive gaming as a spectator sport. Esports is not going to reach a family audience for another 15 years at best. | ||
RoomOfMush
1296 Posts
Just using profanity to seem edgy is not something that I would associate with good casting. But dropping a well placed F-Bomb can really improve the feeling of a cast. | ||
Sissors
1395 Posts
I don't want to have a robot casting. Profanity shouldn't be there just because you can, but it also shouldn't be a problem to have some. | ||
Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
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VorGirL
72 Posts
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
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