Dungeons and Dragons: Official TL Thread - Page 3
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ELA
Denmark4608 Posts
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ShatterStorm
Australia146 Posts
My thoughts are that while it had (many) flaws, 2nd Ed had more "flavour" than 3rd ed. 3rd onwards they homogenised the game far too much and this led to many imbalances and turned the game into far too much of a min/max fest, although it did make it easier to create a more "customised" character and have the customisations reflected more fully within the ruleset The 3.5 and 4th ed's were IMO merely an attempt to add back in the "flavour" that 3rd Ed took out and never truely added much into the game. As far as customising the game and adding more "complexity and realism" dont forget that 2nd Ed had a plethora of added supplements and 20 years worth of Dragon magazine to fall back on (not to mention any house rules a group creates) My one gripe about the whole D&D franchise are the rules regarding Spell memorisation. I understand the concept, but dont agree with it personally. A spell stamina system eg Shadowrun or a spell point system would be far more logical and not require the creation of a whole new class (Sorceror) just to add some flexability to a Mage | ||
Obsidian
United States350 Posts
Just finished a undead castle on the grey wastes. Big bad boss was a over CRed Vampire Fire Giant. He came damn close to oneshotting everyone and the GM managed to gain a couple skulls on his dm screen during the fight. | ||
ProfessorCold
United States41 Posts
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
As for narrative do explain what they perceive but never try to tell them what they do, even if it is logical to you. | ||
Cirn9
1117 Posts
I prefer either beat em up types, whether beefy or fragile that deal lots of damage. Or Clerics that focus on tank/healing, no real damage output but crazy ac and healing abilities for my buddies. I started as a player, but I don't think I could handle being one anymore (other systems are fine) but I like having control of the entire world, all the npcs, creating characters and making the PCs dance in my palm like puppets. I just started an online game as a test (never having done one online before) and its going well so far On March 07 2011 06:06 ProfessorCold wrote: Yo guys, so I'm just starting a D&D (4th edition) with some of my friends, and none of us have ever played it before. I just got a Red Box and started looking through all the rules and stuff, and I have a pretty solid grasp on all of that jazz. What would you recommend that I do in particular - such as, is it more fun if the DM just adds lots of narrative into it, or if the DM makes the players do a bunch of stuff, or if maybe I just make up some of the rules as I go? If you've never played before maybe use a pre-constructed adventure? As for the other things, its a matter of balance. You want enough descriptions and things that your players can well enough picture what places look like and to feel immersed, but if you do it all the time they may get bored listening waiting. Guiding them along with things to do may help with learning the game, but railroading the players to where they feel they have no freedom is generally bad. They need enough freedom to do what they want, and enough direction that they follow the story line without knowing it, or enjoy the plot hooks enough to follow it on their own. This can be harder in the beginning, once you know your players and their usual kind of actions makes it much easier to manipulate them. I'd stick with the rules if you're new. Again, this comes with experience, the more you play and know the game and your players, the more you will know when to bend, break or fabricate rules to your or your players benefit or to just fit the scenario. On a end note, two things to keep in mind. 1. I have never played 4th Ed. 2. A great quote No plot or storyline has ever survived an encounter with player characters | ||
ProfessorCold
United States41 Posts
Also yeah, balance seems to be the trickiest thing. I enjoyed Archangel's advice of simply asking the other characters, I would have probably been too nervous to do that, haha. I'll keep the stuff all you guys posted in mind, thanks a lot! Anyone else, feel free to help me out too. | ||
kuresuti
1393 Posts
I have a regular playgroup with whom I play boardgames etc, and I am thinking about suggesting D&D. None of us have any previous experience except maybe some knowledge about some rules thanks to Baldur's Gate etc. What exactly do I need to play? The pre-constructed adventures mentioned above sound great to begin with. Do I just pick up one of those and a rulebook and we're good to go? Since I am a huge fan of Neverwinter Nights (Which is based on 3.5th Ed. I *think*) and have played it extensively, should I go with 3.5th or 4th Edition or have they butchered the ruleset enough in the computer games for my knowledge to not matter in the pen and paper version? Any recommended adventures to go for? | ||
Nawyria
Netherlands140 Posts
On March 07 2011 18:14 kuresuti wrote: What exactly do I need to play? The pre-constructed adventures mentioned above sound great to begin with. Do I just pick up one of those and a rulebook and we're good to go? Since I am a huge fan of Neverwinter Nights (Which is based on 3.5th Ed. I *think*) and have played it extensively, should I go with 3.5th or 4th Edition or have they butchered the ruleset enough in the computer games for my knowledge to not matter in the pen and paper version? Any recommended adventures to go for? D&D is complex, but very simple at its fundamental mechanics. Everything basically comes down to "roll a die, add or subtract a number and compare it to some other number to see if you succeeded". Every rule in the game is basically only there to tell you what you can or can't do, what die you should roll, what number you should add or subtract and what number you should compare your result to. Although it takes some getting used to ,once you get the hang of one mechanic (say, combat as a melee character) it gets increasingly easier to learn other mechanics. I will help if there's someone you know that has previous experiece with the system. I'd personally advise against playing 4th edition if you're a fan of the NWN system (which is indeed based on 3.5). For 4.0, Wizards of the Coast butchered all extisting mechanics and made a completely new gamethat plays more like a Hack & Slash or a computer mmorpg like World of Warcraft than a Traditional Tabletop RPG. The 3.5th edition is a decent system in itself, but it's not entirely without its flaws, inconsistencies and stupidities. The Baldur's Gate games I believe were based on AD&D, which operates slightly differently, but is still comparable to the 3.5 system. What I would advise you to play, though, is the Pathfinder RPG system developed by Paizo Publishing. When Wizards of the Coast released 4th edition of D&D, they discontinued printing of all non-4th edition material, including the original 3.5 sourcebooks. This didn't go down well with may people, including the writers of several of the better 3.5 supplements (such as the Complete series). So a team of such people got together, took 3.5 back to the drawing board and created a game system that is a worthy successor of and improvement over 3.5. It plays just like 3.5, but is more streamlined, customizable and in my opinion more fun to play. As for adventures, I've only gamemastered or played in campaigns that were custom-made by myself or my DM. I do know that Paizo has several adventuring modules available, so I suppose you'll be able to find something decent. To play a d20 game, you'll need a bunch of dice to work with; namely a d4, d6, d8, d10, d12 d% and a d20. It's advisable to have several d20's ready for multiple attacks and at least four d6's, as you'll need these to roll up a character. As for books: - - - - - - Pathfinder If you're going for Pathfinder, it suffices pick up the Core Rulebook. This book contains all the rules necessary to play the game, along with equipment, spells, magic items, traps, etc. and contains a chapter on running the game. However, it doesn't contain monster statistics so you might need to pick up the Bestiary if you need those. Familiarize yourself with the rules, have your group roll several characters and pit them against eachother in combat. Keep it simple and play a few single-session campaigns before you get started on something bigger. These two books are all you need to play the game, although there are several great supplements available. The Advanced Player's Guide covers additional classes and rules that allow for more diversity and choices while the Gamemastery Guide is a book dedicated to teaching you to be a better Game Master. D&D 3.5 If you're going for 3.5, you'll need both the Player's Handbook and the Dungeon Master's Guide for a complete set of rules while monster statistics are found in the Monster Manual. Same thing as above applies here, start small before you start a big campaign. These books are currently out-of-print and you'll probably have to scrounge ebay to find a complete set. There are lots of really good supplemental books for 3.5, but they suffer the same problem D&D 4.0 4.0 books have the same names as 3.5 books and the same logic applies to them apart from the fact they're still in print. - - - - - - If you have any questions, feel free to ask. | ||
kuresuti
1393 Posts
On March 07 2011 18:49 Nawyria wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 07 2011 18:14 kuresuti wrote: What exactly do I need to play? The pre-constructed adventures mentioned above sound great to begin with. Do I just pick up one of those and a rulebook and we're good to go? Since I am a huge fan of Neverwinter Nights (Which is based on 3.5th Ed. I *think*) and have played it extensively, should I go with 3.5th or 4th Edition or have they butchered the ruleset enough in the computer games for my knowledge to not matter in the pen and paper version? Any recommended adventures to go for? D&D is simple, yet complex; everything basically comes down to "roll a die, add or subtract a number and compare it to some other number to see if you succeeded"; every rule in the game is basically only there to tell you what you can or can't do, what die you should rull, what number you should add or subtract and what number you should compare your result to. Although it takes some getting used to ,once you get the hang of one mechanic (say, combat as a melee character) it gets increasingly easier to learn other mechanics. If you've played NWN, the 3.5 system will be very familiar; the Baldur's Gate games I believe were based on AD&D, which operates slightly differently, but is still comparable to the 3.5 system. I'd personally advise against playing 4th edition if you're a fan of the NWN system, which is indeed based on 3.5. For 4.0, Wizards of the Coast butchered all extisting mechanics and made a completely new gamethat plays more like a Hack & Slash or a computer mmorpg like World of Warcraft than a Traditional Tabletop RPG. The 3.5th edition is a decent system in itself, but it's not entirely without its flaws, inconsistencies and stupidities. What I can advise you to play, though, is the Pathfinder RPG system developed by Paizo Publishing. When Wizards of the Coast released 4th edition of D&D, they discontinued printing of all non-4th edition material, including the original 3.5 sourcebooks. This didn't go down well with may people, including the writers of several of the better 3.5 supplements (such as the Complete series). So a team of such people got together, took 3.5 back to the drawing board and created a game system that is a worthy successor of and improvement over 3.5. It plays just like 3.5, but is more streamlined, customizable and in my opinion more fun to play. As for adventures, I've only gamemastered or played in campaigns that were custom-made by myself or my DM. I do know that Paizo has several adventuring modules available, so I suppose you'll be able to find something decent. - - - - - - To play a d20 game, you'll need a bunch of dice to work with; namely a d4, d6, d8, d10, d12 d% and a d20. It's advisable to have several d20's ready for multiple attacks and at least four d6's, as you'll need these to roll up a character. As for books: If you're going for Pathfinder, it suffices pick up the Core Rulebook. This book contains all the rules necessary to play the game, along with equipment, spells, magic items, traps, etc. and contains a chapter on running the game. However, it doesn't contain monster statistics so you might need to pick up the Bestiary if you need those. Familiarize yourself with the rules, have your group roll several characters and pit them against eachother in combat. Keep it simple and play a few single-session campaigns before you get started on something bigger. These two books are all you need to play the game, although there are several great supplements available. The Advanced Player's Guide covers additional classes and rules that allow for more diversity and choices while the Gamemastery Guide is a book dedicated to teaching you to be a better Game Master. If you're going for 3.5, you'll need both the Player's Handbook and the Dungeon Master's Guide for a complete set of rules while monster statistics are found in the Monster Manual. Same thing as above applies here, start small before you start a big campaign. These books are currently out-of-print and you'll probably have to scrounge ebay to find a complete set. There are lots of really good supplemental books for 3.5, but they suffer the same problem 4.0 books have the same names as 3.5 books and the same logic applies to them apart from the fact they're still in print. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Wow, thanks alot! This is exactly what I needed The Pathfinder system seems really good, seeing as it can be played standalone and there isn't huge amounts of stuff for it yet according to wikipedia, making it a bit easier to grasp for me, while still having backwards compatibility to give us the option for more content. I think I will go for Pathfinder. I will do some more research and discuss this further with my playgroup, thanks again! | ||
Nawyria
Netherlands140 Posts
On March 07 2011 19:18 kuresuti wrote: Wow, thanks alot! This is exactly what I needed The Pathfinder system seems really good, seeing as it can be played standalone and there isn't huge amounts of stuff for it yet according to wikipedia, making it a bit easier to grasp for me, while still having backwards compatibility to give us the option for more content. I think I will go for Pathfinder. I will do some more research and discuss this further with my playgroup, thanks again! You're welcome. I'm always glad to help new people get into Tabletop Roleplaying. Again, if you have any questions you think I can help you with, drop me a line. Edit: Also, there is a very good Pathfinder SRD (System Reference Document) online at http://www.d20pfsrd.com/ . This contains all the statistics and several rules provided in both the Core Rulebook as well as the APG and both Bestiaries. | ||
kuresuti
1393 Posts
We had some problems with some fighting mechanics, such as range and at which speed some actions happened (It seemed relevant to me, but I don't know). We just ended up doing it turn based, deciding who goes first by initiative rolls. I'm pretty sure we did stuff wrong, but it's a learning process right ? Either way, it was a lot of fun and we're gonna try an actual game the next time we get together. | ||
Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On March 14 2011 19:36 kuresuti wrote: We got together this weekend and tried out some PvP with Pathfinder. I haven't purchased the books yet so we used the SRD linked above. It was a slow process at first (there's so much stuff you just can't click away once you've started reading something ), but still fun. After a few characters we started to get the hang of it. We had some problems with some fighting mechanics, such as range and at which speed some actions happened (It seemed relevant to me, but I don't know). We just ended up doing it turn based, deciding who goes first by initiative rolls. I'm pretty sure we did stuff wrong, but it's a learning process right ? Either way, it was a lot of fun and we're gonna try an actual game the next time we get together. PvP isnt the point of D&D because the classes have very different advantages and disadvantages. Teamwork and getting synergy rolling is more important. This obviously doesnt include D&D 4e because that edition has been designed to make every class "balanced" with the others. Sadly that also makes them bland and boring because every class feels the same as all the others ... just with another color. Dont worry about rules too much and let your fun be taken away by dragging the game down through ruleslawyering and checking stuff. Just go by DM decision OR choose randomly between several equally reasonable options. One thing to do to increase your players immersion is to come up with a background story and fears and weaknesses of your characters. Oh and definetely watch The Gamers and The Gamers 2: Dorkness Rising. Both are pretty good and once you have had a few years of gaming you will recognize these scenes from your own campaigns. | ||
Nawyria
Netherlands140 Posts
On March 14 2011 19:36 kuresuti wrote: We got together this weekend and tried out some PvP with Pathfinder. I haven't purchased the books yet so we used the SRD linked above. It was a slow process at first (there's so much stuff you just can't click away once you've started reading something ), but still fun. After a few characters we started to get the hang of it. We had some problems with some fighting mechanics, such as range and at which speed some actions happened (It seemed relevant to me, but I don't know). We just ended up doing it turn based, deciding who goes first by initiative rolls. I'm pretty sure we did stuff wrong, but it's a learning process right ? Either way, it was a lot of fun and we're gonna try an actual game the next time we get together. Good to hear you enjoyed yourselves! After all, that's what playing the game is supposed to achieve. As for the rules, the SRD is exactly what it says, a reference document, so I figure you haven't been able to read up on a lot fo the basic stuff. It's explained in the core rulebook pretty well and is essentially identical to how it works in D&D 3.5. I'll give you a short rundown on the rules: - At the start of combat, you roll for initiative; roll a d20 and add your initiative bonus (dexterity modifier plus any other initiative-specific bonuses). The person with the highest result goes first and all the things his/her character does in its turn happen instantaneously. This may seem unrealistic but trust me, it makes for a lot more streamlined play. - At its basic form you get two actions in a round: a standard action, which generally involve combat-related actions such as making a single attack, casting a spell or drinking a potion; and a move action, which generally involve non-combat-related actions such as standing up, moving your speed, opening/closing a door, drawing a weapon or reloading a crossbow. - You can decide to turn your standard action into a second move action to get around faster or merge your standard and move action into something called a full-round action. A full-round action generally entails casting one of the more awesome spells or making multiple attacks (characters with a Base Attack Bonus of 6 or higher get additional attacks and the Rapid Shot feat allows an archer to fire an additional arrow when using a full attack). - If you have not used a move action to move, your character can make what is called a 5-foot-step to move one square. I hope this helps. If there's anything else you're struggling with, just ask. | ||
kuresuti
1393 Posts
On March 14 2011 20:47 Rabiator wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On March 14 2011 19:36 kuresuti wrote: We got together this weekend and tried out some PvP with Pathfinder. I haven't purchased the books yet so we used the SRD linked above. It was a slow process at first (there's so much stuff you just can't click away once you've started reading something ), but still fun. After a few characters we started to get the hang of it. We had some problems with some fighting mechanics, such as range and at which speed some actions happened (It seemed relevant to me, but I don't know). We just ended up doing it turn based, deciding who goes first by initiative rolls. I'm pretty sure we did stuff wrong, but it's a learning process right ? Either way, it was a lot of fun and we're gonna try an actual game the next time we get together. PvP isnt the point of D&D because the classes have very different advantages and disadvantages. Teamwork and getting synergy rolling is more important. This obviously doesnt include D&D 4e because that edition has been designed to make every class "balanced" with the others. Sadly that also makes them bland and boring because every class feels the same as all the others ... just with another color. Dont worry about rules too much and let your fun be taken away by dragging the game down through ruleslawyering and checking stuff. Just go by DM decision OR choose randomly between several equally reasonable options. One thing to do to increase your players immersion is to come up with a background story and fears and weaknesses of your characters. Oh and definetely watch The Gamers and The Gamers 2: Dorkness Rising. Both are pretty good and once you have had a few years of gaming you will recognize these scenes from your own campaigns. I will check those out. Unfortunately none of us have any previous experience, so the Dungeon Mastering will take some time to get used to, we'll start off with some adventure packs, thanks for the advice! On March 15 2011 05:37 Nawyria wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On March 14 2011 19:36 kuresuti wrote: We got together this weekend and tried out some PvP with Pathfinder. I haven't purchased the books yet so we used the SRD linked above. It was a slow process at first (there's so much stuff you just can't click away once you've started reading something ), but still fun. After a few characters we started to get the hang of it. We had some problems with some fighting mechanics, such as range and at which speed some actions happened (It seemed relevant to me, but I don't know). We just ended up doing it turn based, deciding who goes first by initiative rolls. I'm pretty sure we did stuff wrong, but it's a learning process right ? Either way, it was a lot of fun and we're gonna try an actual game the next time we get together. Good to hear you enjoyed yourselves! After all, that's what playing the game is supposed to achieve. As for the rules, the SRD is exactly what it says, a reference document, so I figure you haven't been able to read up on a lot fo the basic stuff. It's explained in the core rulebook pretty well and is essentially identical to how it works in D&D 3.5. I'll give you a short rundown on the rules: - At the start of combat, you roll for initiative; roll a d20 and add your initiative bonus (dexterity modifier plus any other initiative-specific bonuses). The person with the highest result goes first and all the things his/her character does in its turn happen instantaneously. This may seem unrealistic but trust me, it makes for a lot more streamlined play. - At its basic form you get two actions in a round: a standard action, which generally involve combat-related actions such as making a single attack, casting a spell or drinking a potion; and a move action, which generally involve non-combat-related actions such as standing up, moving your speed, opening/closing a door, drawing a weapon or reloading a crossbow. - You can decide to turn your standard action into a second move action to get around faster or merge your standard and move action into something called a full-round action. A full-round action generally entails casting one of the more awesome spells or making multiple attacks (characters with a Base Attack Bonus of 6 or higher get additional attacks and the Rapid Shot feat allows an archer to fire an additional arrow when using a full attack). - If you have not used a move action to move, your character can make what is called a 5-foot-step to move one square. I hope this helps. If there's anything else you're struggling with, just ask. Ahh, we only used one action each round (full-round action) and thought it felt a bit weird. I guess I'll go pick up the core book this week! I'd like to ask, what character sheets do you guys use? We just printed out a few copies of the sheet created by Paizo for Pathfinder, which worked fine for us but would you recommend something else? | ||
Golden Ghost
Netherlands1041 Posts
I personally mostly play a brawler like a Half-Orc or a magician of some sort but when needed can play almost everything to fill any gap in the group of adventures. To bad I haven't played for about a year and a half. Reading this made me itchy again. On March 07 2011 06:30 mikku wrote: A great quote No plot or storyline has ever survived an encounter with player characters This is so true. I myself have been responsible for a lot of derailed storylines. I also once played a campaign where we derailed the storyline set by the DM so many times (not on purpose) it became a sport to go way outside the box wherever we could to further bring the DM to (and over) the edge of despair. | ||
Zorkmid
4410 Posts
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Vandro
Netherlands384 Posts
On March 15 2011 18:24 kuresuti wrote: I'd like to ask, what character sheets do you guys use? We just printed out a few copies of the sheet created by Paizo for Pathfinder, which worked fine for us but would you recommend something else? We use sheets that automatically calculate the bonuses from from stats for our 3.5 campaign, but you need a pretty new version of Acrobat Pro for it. Look around on this site to see what works for you: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/character-sheets. D&D is very personal, so try to find out what your party likes to do. A good start is to do some premade adventures while alternating DM before starting a big campaign. Some parties like to do lots of RP, some like to do combat. Some parties like a structured campaign in a complete setting (like Forgotten Realms), some like to decide what to do on the fly etc. The longlasting campaigns are the ones where every party member AND the DM is happy. Our current campaign is over 6 years old | ||
ShatterStorm
Australia146 Posts
Use your imagination and above all, have fun! The rules in the books do not need to be religeously followed. Sure, they povide a frame or structure under which you can play and handle the "mechanics" of play. But at no time should one think "well, if it''s not covered by the rules, then I cant try it" Also, if your group dislike a rule... change it. It is after all your game, played in your home. You dont have to worry about server limits, eula agreements or balance/imba discussions with D&D. Ahh, the memories of 2nd Ed where there were no official improvised weapon rules and having a player in my group beat a (small) dragon to death with a pipe wrench. Or the jokes about making a player roll dice when he went to attend a "call of nature"... roll a 1, fumble and therefore "loose" his "equipment" for 1d6 rounds. | ||
Nawyria
Netherlands140 Posts
On March 15 2011 18:24 kuresuti wrote: I'd like to ask, what character sheets do you guys use? We just printed out a few copies of the sheet created by Paizo for Pathfinder, which worked fine for us but would you recommend something else? Ahh, the issue of character sheets; it comes down to what you want to record. You can find a good Character sheet database here . Paizo's character sheet works well enough for recording basic stuff, but I'd recommend Treyu's character sheet which allows you to jot down everything relevant for your character. If you're not yet quite comfortable with the mechanics, there are several sheets that do calculations for you. You just fill in, say, your Strength score and the sheet calculates all relevant bonuses for you. This will probably slow down your learning process, but can help you get things right. There's a good one in Excel format and an editable Paizo Sheet. If you're feeling fancy you can go for Happy Camper's character sheets, whose documents contain 3-page character sheets tailored to each individual class. Edit: On a sidenote, so many Dutchies in this thread! :D | ||
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