Impressive on finding so many changes before the notes were released! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Before the patch notes are released, after playing around in the game these have been discovered:
-Phoenix's move a lot more fluently and you can perform a "moving shot" more easily -Neural parasite now requires an research upgrade 150/150 and takes 110 seconds to research -250mm strike cannons on Thor now requires research 150/150 and takes 110 seconds - Seems like once accelerated, the mother ship moves faster - Sentry damaged reduced from 8 to 6 - Neural parasite now 100 energy up from 50 - Battlecruiser build time lowered from 110 to 90 - Hellion range increased - Graviton beam is a crap load easier to use. Now, if a unit is running away, when you click to pick up the enemy unit the phoenix will chase it and pick it up instead of previously where the phoenix would catch up to the unit and not cast it. - Battle cruisers increase in movement speed (unconfirmed) - Thor damage reduced to 30 damage per hit down from 45 (and also do less damage to non-light air) - Colossus damage reduced from 21 (or whatever it was) to 15 - High templar movement speed increased - Thor attack rate increased - Carrier movement speed increased - Colossus can no longer kite units........... it literally has to stand still and shoot to do the damage - Corruptor's corruption costs 100 gas and is now used on units: it increases damage done to them by 20% for 30 seconds. - Neural parasite now works on air units - Dark templar movement speed increased (questionable but they seem SUPER fast) - Broodlords reduced in armor from 2 to 1, range increased from 9 to 9.5, HP from 275 to 225 - Hunter Seeker Missile available in the tech lab no longer requiring fusion core - Colossus attack speed increased (unconfirmed) - Hellions attack faster once they stop moving - Unupgraded banelings move faster off and on creep
- Marauders are NOT massive - Voidrays unchanged
That's all I've noticed so far but there are surely a lot more changes ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Patch notes only list corruptor speed increase, however I'm convinced that:
On May 07 2010 04:30 avilo wrote: I think also they made it so you cannot use different servers. Cause when I try to log onto euro server with my euro acct it says invalid
The euro servers haven't been patched yet so it should probably still work after they've caught up.
On May 07 2010 04:30 avilo wrote: I think also they made it so you cannot use different servers. Cause when I try to log onto euro server with my euro acct it says invalid
The euro servers haven't been patched yet so it should probably still work after they've caught up.
oh...woot! lol, hope that is true. And if they made the phoenix moving shot better, does that mean the viking is better too? And mutas? or what @_@
I have to say... this is embarrassing for Blizzard. This and the account swapping thing they had before. There patcher has been horrible. I hope they start releasing patches everyday as a way to test their patching system because it seems to be pretty broken. I mean, they need to fix the server upgrading, sending out patch, put out patch notes, and installing the patch problems ASAP.
Seriously though, I really love how blizzard either listens to us, or has incredibly well thought out design goals. Reduction of damage across the board+A corruptor rework+Moving shot.
Colossi do 2 attacks of 15 dmg, but attack slightly faster. Corruptor's corruption costs 100 gas and is now used on units: it increases damage done to them by 20% for 30 seconds. Thors do 30 damage per hit instead of 45
I'm hearing thor ground attack damage was nerfed. confirm/deny? Interesting colossus change; I wonder how much the DPS has changed. No more colossus drops on minerals
thor/colossus changes were because of the neural parasite nerf, now thors cant 1 shot hydras and colossus cant 1 shot zergling/2 shot hydras, they did increase their attack speed so their dps remains the same
On May 07 2010 04:40 NightOne wrote: i hope people are just spewing random crap to troll this.. if half the changes listed here are true then the game is friggen broken T_T
FFS thor drops already make me sick delaying infestor tech for neural parasite is just giving terrans carte blanche to wtfrape my base repeatedly w/o ever risking their thor
On May 07 2010 04:40 NightOne wrote: i hope people are just spewing random crap to troll this.. if half the changes listed here are true then the game is friggen broken T_T
On May 07 2010 04:40 NightOne wrote: i hope people are just spewing random crap to troll this.. if half the changes listed here are true then the game is friggen broken T_T
how so? -_-
i think corruptors were fine the way they were... their buidling spell was underused, but u could easily ... use it?
now they have this spell that gives fairie fire (see night elf wc3) to all your units at one time?
dont get me wrong.. i loved night elf in wc3... but faerie fire in this game = imba... its gonna get nerfed.. 20% increased dmg is alot...
Also Vikings seem to accelerate a lot faster, maybe it will be possible to kite those damn void rays now. Still waiting for the Easy CPU to build air though....
On May 07 2010 04:42 billyX333 wrote: FFS thor drops already make me sick delaying infestor tech for neural parasite is just giving terrans carte blanche to wtfrape my base repeatedly w/o ever risking their thor
FFS neural parasite already make me sick insta gibbing my 300/200 thor that is 1/4 of my entire army was just giving zergs carte blanche to mass roach and MC my thors then wtf rape my base repeatedly w/o ever risking their infestors.
On May 07 2010 04:45 metasonic wrote: Also Vikings seem to accelerate a lot faster, maybe it will be possible to kite those damn void rays now. Still waiting for the Easy CPU to build air though....
Can anyone confirm this? It'd be nice to have a micro-able ATA unit for Terran again for a change.
Even though I'm a Protoss player, I'm happy that Colossus can't kite anymore. I can't mention how many times I lost the advantage due to few Colossuses kiting all my units.
On May 07 2010 04:44 mav451 wrote: April fools was last month wtf.
Thors - one-shotting hydras was one of the big reasons to use it. If it only does 30, it doesn't even one shot a ling. WTF.
Think about what you just wrote. You know dmg was decreased from 45 to 30. You say with 30 dmg they dont even one-shot a ling, but before they one-shot a hydra? Hydra has 45 hp? think about it.
I kinda like those changes! Makes it feel a lil more broodwar-ish! (Lots of upgrades, less damage on big units (cols, thors, etc))
Can't wait to see the official patch notes! XP
On May 07 2010 04:47 rackdude wrote: Question, can you neural parasite a mothership? If so, do you get the cloak and can they make a second one?
Sure you can! Once you do that, you gain control of all protoss units and the ability to summon Chuck Norris to roundhouse kick a hole in their nexus!!!
On May 07 2010 04:46 YoonHo wrote: Even though I'm a Protoss player, I'm happy that Colossus can't kite anymore. I can't mention how many times I lost the advantage due to few Colossuses kiting all my units.
colossi could never kite. not sure what you guys are talking about. previously, the animation had to fully finish for any damage to be done. so it may have looked like colossi were kiting when in reality no damage was being dealt.
As I said before Neural Parasite can now target air units. I just played a game and confirmed it on a void ray. I don't really think this is that bad of a change, this opens up a shit load of possibilities. Mothership???? Medivacs without a doubt will be my target against terran bio builds.
Infestors also have a new skill coming in place of infested terran soon as posted by blizzard. So if they have 2 good innate skills(Fungal Growth, and what ever new one they give us) having neural parasite as as research isn't that bad.
For people complaining about Thor, notice how Neural Parasite got freaking butchered, making the one effective counter to Thors that much harder, THAT is the reason for the nerf, same reason for Colossus.
On May 07 2010 04:45 Zelniq wrote: MARAUDERS ARE NOW MASSIVE UNITS lol
i guess so they cant be slowed by other marauders? wat els?
They can't be lifted by graviton beam, WTF
Shit, didn't think about that. That's broken... how do you stop a marauder push going phoenixes then? You used to be able to outmicro it... now there's literally nothing you can do. I mean, literally, you cannot use your spell on them... :-/
On May 07 2010 04:45 Zelniq wrote: MARAUDERS ARE NOW MASSIVE UNITS lol
i guess so they cant be slowed by other marauders? wat els?
I think it's so they can't be lifted by the now buffed phoenix. I actually played a game against day[9] tvp where he completely owned me by picking off my marauders with phoenix, and it seemed a little too strong, so I'm not too surprised by this change. Though this does make marauders even stronger than they already were... lol...
On May 07 2010 04:44 mav451 wrote: April fools was last month wtf.
Thors - one-shotting hydras was one of the big reasons to use it. If it only does 30, it doesn't even one shot a ling. WTF.
Think about what you just wrote. You know dmg was decreased from 45 to 30. You say with 30 dmg they dont even one-shot a ling, but before they one-shot a hydra? Hydra has 45 hp? think about it.
On May 07 2010 04:48 Toadily wrote: For people complaining about Thor, notice how Neural Parasite got freaking butchered, making the one effective counter to Thors that much harder, THAT is the reason for the nerf, same reason for Colossus.
Lol, ya I was just about to post this. Blizzard is smart about their patches O_O!
Ultralisk melee damage went from 18 to 25, building damage unchanged at 60 (I'm just going by Liquidpedia for previous stats vs what I see in game btw guys). No armor or HP change. I think they move faster, but honestly I rarely made ultralisks before so maybe not.
Marauders are massive AND armored or just massive now?? Cause if they get only the massive modifier... then all you Protoss better start rerolling, forget about winning a single game against Terran: stalkers will do less damage, immortals will do less than a half of the damage they were doing previously, and phoenixes can't lift them... gonna be ridiculous. Too many changes at the same time and some really don't make any sense...
30x2 = 60. Still 1 shots lings, just its 2 shots for hydra now and 3shot for roach instead of 1/2 shot respectively. Air still does the same 6(+6 light)x4
On May 07 2010 04:48 AssuredVacancy wrote: Corruption is single target...Where are the people getting the idea that it's aoe? Now corruption is even more useless...
Colossi taking 20% more damage for half a minute is pretty huge imo
On May 07 2010 04:42 billyX333 wrote: FFS thor drops already make me sick delaying infestor tech for neural parasite is just giving terrans carte blanche to wtfrape my base repeatedly w/o ever risking their thor
FFS neural parasite already make me sick insta gibbing my 300/200 thor that is 1/4 of my entire army was just giving zergs carte blanche to mass roach and MC my thors then wtf rape my base repeatedly w/o ever risking their infestors.
If you're so bad you can't focus down an infestor that is controlling your Thor you deserve to lose.
On May 07 2010 04:50 Brocklyn wrote: Thors have 2 shots .. 2x 45 = 90
The argument was that while person X claimed the new Thor could not one-shot zerglings, the old Thor could one-shot hydralisks. He applied x2 damage to the old Thor, but ignored it in his argument for the new Thor.
On May 07 2010 04:51 Tidesson wrote: Marauders are massive AND armored or just massive now?? Cause if they get only the massive modifier... then all you Protoss better start rerolling, forget about winning a single game against Terran: stalkers will do less damage, immortals will do less than a half of the damage they were doing previously, and phoenixes can't lift them... gonna be ridiculous. Too many changes at the same time and some really don't make any sense...
I'm just wondering, would Blizzard really do all these changes in one single patch? I donno how many changes the previous patches had but, this seems a lot.
On May 07 2010 04:42 billyX333 wrote: FFS thor drops already make me sick delaying infestor tech for neural parasite is just giving terrans carte blanche to wtfrape my base repeatedly w/o ever risking their thor
FFS neural parasite already make me sick insta gibbing my 300/200 thor that is 1/4 of my entire army was just giving zergs carte blanche to mass roach and MC my thors then wtf rape my base repeatedly w/o ever risking their infestors.
If you're so bad you can't focus down an infestor that is controlling your Thor you deserve to lose.
yes, because it is easy to focus down an infestor that is across the screen with 40 roaches in front of it. Get out of copper league please.
On May 07 2010 04:51 Chaoz wrote: - Corruptor's corruption costs 100 gas and is now used on units: it increases damage done to them by 20% for 30 seconds.
This is going to be so overpowered.
This is not wc.. there are no hero units. Increased damage on 1/50 units isn't gonna do shit.
On May 07 2010 04:52 Zelniq wrote: Heat seeking missiles no longer require fusion core FML
If this is true, I actually like it. In TvTs, I tried to incorporate Heat seeking missiles into my play but it was so hard cuz I'd have to upgrade it and I would never get the timing right >.<.
On May 07 2010 04:51 Chaoz wrote: - Corruptor's corruption costs 100 gas and is now used on units: it increases damage done to them by 20% for 30 seconds.
This is going to be so overpowered.
This is not wc.. there are no hero units. Increased damage on 1/50 units isn't gonna do shit.
20% increased damage on something like a thor or a battlecruiser would be sweet if your micro's good enough
On May 07 2010 04:42 billyX333 wrote: FFS thor drops already make me sick delaying infestor tech for neural parasite is just giving terrans carte blanche to wtfrape my base repeatedly w/o ever risking their thor
FFS neural parasite already make me sick insta gibbing my 300/200 thor that is 1/4 of my entire army was just giving zergs carte blanche to mass roach and MC my thors then wtf rape my base repeatedly w/o ever risking their infestors.
If you're so bad you can't focus down an infestor that is controlling your Thor you deserve to lose.
yes, because it is easy to focus down an infestor that is across the screen with 40 roaches in front of it. Get out of copper league please.
On May 07 2010 04:52 Windmonk wrote: hunter seeking missile researchable at the tech lab without the fusion core
this is a good thing. having to build a fusion core just to research that spell was a little ridiculous, this should make HSM much more common. also, infestors having NP against air units is cool.
On May 07 2010 04:51 Chaoz wrote: - Corruptor's corruption costs 100 gas and is now used on units: it increases damage done to them by 20% for 30 seconds.
This is going to be so overpowered.
This is not wc.. there are no hero units. Increased damage on 1/50 units isn't gonna do shit.
Marauder's tooltip at the barracks says "Massive units that cannot be slowed down by concussion," but shooting one with another marauder (with the upgrade of course) slows it down anyway, and the unit itself didn't say "massive" anywhere, just Armored - Biological.
On May 07 2010 04:44 mav451 wrote: April fools was last month wtf.
Thors - one-shotting hydras was one of the big reasons to use it. If it only does 30, it doesn't even one shot a ling. WTF.
Think about what you just wrote. You know dmg was decreased from 45 to 30. You say with 30 dmg they dont even one-shot a ling, but before they one-shot a hydra? Hydra has 45 hp? think about it.
Thors have 2 shots .. 2x 45 = 90
yeah thats obviously the reason for my post. just wanted him to use his own brain.
On May 07 2010 04:42 billyX333 wrote: FFS thor drops already make me sick delaying infestor tech for neural parasite is just giving terrans carte blanche to wtfrape my base repeatedly w/o ever risking their thor
FFS neural parasite already make me sick insta gibbing my 300/200 thor that is 1/4 of my entire army was just giving zergs carte blanche to mass roach and MC my thors then wtf rape my base repeatedly w/o ever risking their infestors.
lol is that the point of the game when infestors are hurting you? sorry because at that point in the game i will have neural parasite anyways gg, learn 2 focus fire pl0x
On May 07 2010 04:51 Chaoz wrote: - Corruptor's corruption costs 100 gas and is now used on units: it increases damage done to them by 20% for 30 seconds.
This is going to be so overpowered.
This is not wc.. there are no hero units. Increased damage on 1/50 units isn't gonna do shit.
well, corruptors will rape colossi now
Seeing how infestors got nerf'd, they needed to boost up a different unit to counter colossi I guess.
The visual effect of cloaked units is different; no more blue glow, just kinda tints the buildings making them slightly transluscent (with mothership anyway)
On May 07 2010 04:38 Mazar wrote: Mutalisk micro is back. they can do what the phoenix does
WHAT? am i seeing correctly?
When I was using them they were WAY more responsive. You could even group them with an overlord to make them stack easier. They would have to very briefly stop moving to attack but if you gave them a move command they didn't have to accelerate or decelerate, they just kept the speed before they attacked.
On May 07 2010 04:53 LUE.Leoj wrote: Well, Thor drops are completely dead.
If by completely dead, then you mean completely better, then yes I agree with you.
Tell me how they're better? Cannons are researched now AND they do less damage (ie - can't kill a queen nearly as quickly). Yeah sounds a ton better to me.
All protoss upgrades (air weapon, air armor, ground weapon, ground armor, shield) are 20 seconds longer. They are now 160 for rank 1; 190 for rank 2; 220 for rank 2
Warpgates' "Transform to gateway" icon is now one tile to the right.
"- Thor damage reduced to 30 damage per hit down from 45 (and also do less damage to non-light air) - Colossus damage reduced from 21 (or whatever it was) to 15"
what? colossus don't one shot anything now, lame.
and the thor one shotting hydras and two shotting queens will be missed.
On May 07 2010 04:53 LUE.Leoj wrote: Well, Thor drops are completely dead.
If by completely dead, then you mean completely better, then yes I agree with you.
Tell me how they're better? Cannons are researched now AND they do less damage (ie - can't kill a queen nearly as quickly). Yeah sounds a ton better to me.
Did you guys see where the thor fire rate was increased? I'm not sure by how much but if it's enough then it's DPS might actually be increased. I wouldn't complain just yet. Wait for the real patch notes.
Uh, weird. I think the Void ray weapon damage is just a tool tip bug. It says no +armored damage, but I'm still getting 5/5/10 on light, 5/5/25 on buildings
The Corrupt ability, +20% damage over a certain period of time, feels like a quick fix. It sounds so crude and with no way to avoid it. Suddenly your units take 20% more damage, nothing you can do but try and kill Corruptors first. Pretty lame.
On May 07 2010 04:51 Chaoz wrote: - Corruptor's corruption costs 100 gas and is now used on units: it increases damage done to them by 20% for 30 seconds.
This is going to be so overpowered.
This is not wc.. there are no hero units. Increased damage on 1/50 units isn't gonna do shit.
well, corruptors will rape colossi now
Seeing how infestors got nerf'd, they needed to boost up a different unit to counter colossi I guess.
infestor nerf will mostly impact early-mid game. later in the game the research cost will no longer be a factor and they'll just take a little longer to be gain enough energy to np. most of the time infestors only np once, so the increased energy cost won't change anything once the battle begins. will still own colossi at that point.
On May 07 2010 04:53 LUE.Leoj wrote: Well, Thor drops are completely dead.
If by completely dead, then you mean completely better, then yes I agree with you.
Tell me how they're better? Cannons are researched now AND they do less damage (ie - can't kill a queen nearly as quickly). Yeah sounds a ton better to me.
Faster shots=more drone kills. Some are saying the dps is even higher than before, so killing the queens quickly is moot. Longer range=much more useful in fights, and now you can use them versus zerg as they can't rush infestor and immediately nullify your thor.. Yeah sounds a ton better to me.
Seriously, I don't get the HUGE Collosi nerf? The damage and that they have to stand still. Is the cost the same as before? If so, I don't really understand why they nerfed Collosi so hard. Were they really THAT good?
Ultras used to do 18 damage per attack. 25 per attack is a HUGE upgrade. This is assuming their attack speed wasn't decreased, it used to be very fast. I'll be trying that out the moment I get home.
On May 07 2010 04:58 Lysogen wrote: Warpgates' "Transform to gateway" icon is now one tile to the right.
Thank god! I've been transitioning to using the grid hotkeys instead of Standard, and "Transform to Gateway" being the same as what Zealot used to be (Z) was boning me.
On May 07 2010 04:51 Chaoz wrote: - Corruptor's corruption costs 100 gas and is now used on units: it increases damage done to them by 20% for 30 seconds.
This is going to be so overpowered.
This is not wc.. there are no hero units. Increased damage on 1/50 units isn't gonna do shit.
well, corruptors will rape colossi now
sorry.. u dont have to build 10 corruptors to counter my equal food collosus now.. just build 5 and cast your spell and insta-rape them.. that won't make a difference on the ground at all... /sarcasm
New Patch Video I Want To See: ZvT, Terran goes MMM with a Raven or two with HSM. Zerg Neural Parasite's the Raven, and HSM the bioball. Oh god it would be so epic. And so much more possible now.
On May 07 2010 05:01 Xxio wrote: The Corrupt ability, +20% damage over a certain period of time, feels like a quick fix. It sounds so crude and with no way to avoid it. Suddenly your units take 20% more damage, nothing you can do but try and kill Corruptors first. Pretty lame.
It takes 100 energy, so you can't really spam it without investing a ton in corruptors. I would imagine you would want 2-3 to maybe cast it on thors/key units.
Ok, so let's cripple Colossus and hope that a movement speed to both Templars will make up for it. ...Owait, Phoenixes are really good now! ...Just kidding, you can't fight Marauders with them anymore.
...So, what do we do? Get 3 different trees of tech to fight Terran? >.>
Phoenix attack an enemy air unit even when you move (that is, when you use the MOVE command and never tell them to attack): they move flawlessly on their trajectory and rotate (sometimes flying sideways or backwards) to fire out shots as they move.
E.g., you can click MOVE past an enemy air unit and they will move as normal, except that they also fire every time they can as they fly by and are in range.
It's putting a pretty literal emphasis on the move in "moving shot."
On May 07 2010 04:44 metasonic wrote: oh wow yeah the Thor attack speed is so much faster. I would say he probably does more DPS now. Too bad about not 1 hitting hyras anymore though....
Does it really matter if its machine gunning 60 damage a shot to stuff?
On May 07 2010 05:02 QuothTheRaven wrote: Phoenix attack an enemy air unit even when you move (that is, when you use the MOVE command and never tell them to attack): they move flawlessly on their trajectory and rotate (sometimes flying sideways or backwards) to fire out shots as they move.
E.g., you can click MOVE past an enemy air unit and they will move as normal, except that they also fire every time they can as they fly by and are in range.
It's putting a pretty literal emphasis on the move in "moving shot."
What's so bad about Infestors controlling air units as P? Not like anyone is going to throw carriers or motherships at them, voids and phoenix seem like a waste of control to me.
On May 07 2010 05:02 QuothTheRaven wrote: Phoenix attack an enemy air unit even when you move (that is, when you use the MOVE command and never tell them to attack): they move flawlessly on their trajectory and rotate (sometimes flying sideways or backwards) to fire out shots as they move.
E.g., you can click MOVE past an enemy air unit and they will move as normal, except that they also fire every time they can as they fly by and are in range.
It's putting a pretty literal emphasis on the move in "moving shot."
On May 07 2010 04:50 Hold-Lurker wrote: Ultralisk melee damage went from 18 to 25, building damage unchanged at 60 (I'm just going by Liquidpedia for previous stats vs what I see in game btw guys). No armor or HP change. I think they move faster, but honestly I rarely made ultralisks before so maybe not.
The problem was never the damage, it was the fact that they could never get into combat!
On May 07 2010 05:02 QuothTheRaven wrote: Phoenix attack an enemy air unit even when you move (that is, when you use the MOVE command and never tell them to attack): they move flawlessly on their trajectory and rotate (sometimes flying sideways or backwards) to fire out shots as they move.
E.g., you can click MOVE past an enemy air unit and they will move as normal, except that they also fire every time they can as they fly by and are in range.
It's putting a pretty literal emphasis on the move in "moving shot."
Is that really true? This would be the most retarded change Blizzard made so far.
With range 9 parasite I'm sure I'll be doing more HSM dodging than the zerg opponent I'm playing.
Except that you won't be able to dodge because the HSM will be fired directly at a unit 2 pixel from your (or rather the zerg's) Raven. The zerg doesn't have to worry about losing the Raven, after all.
On May 07 2010 05:01 onmach wrote: Ultras used to do 18 damage per attack. 25 per attack is a HUGE upgrade. This is assuming their attack speed wasn't decreased, it used to be very fast. I'll be trying that out the moment I get home.
I think Toss will have a really really hard tgime against Zerg players.. now that u dont have a good counter vs hydra.. i think we as toss players are screwed.. I understadn the sentry nerf but this? THIS IZ MADNESS
On May 07 2010 05:02 QuothTheRaven wrote: Phoenix attack an enemy air unit even when you move (that is, when you use the MOVE command and never tell them to attack): they move flawlessly on their trajectory and rotate (sometimes flying sideways or backwards) to fire out shots as they move.
E.g., you can click MOVE past an enemy air unit and they will move as normal, except that they also fire every time they can as they fly by and are in range.
It's putting a pretty literal emphasis on the move in "moving shot."
Is that really true? This would be the most retarded change Blizzard made so far.
On May 07 2010 05:02 QuothTheRaven wrote: Phoenix attack an enemy air unit even when you move (that is, when you use the MOVE command and never tell them to attack): they move flawlessly on their trajectory and rotate (sometimes flying sideways or backwards) to fire out shots as they move.
E.g., you can click MOVE past an enemy air unit and they will move as normal, except that they also fire every time they can as they fly by and are in range.
It's putting a pretty literal emphasis on the move in "moving shot."
Is that really true? This would be the most retarded change Blizzard made so far.
Yes, you never need to hit attack with the phoenix; you just need to MOVE within range and it'll fire. The phoenix's movement is not affected at all by whether it's firing or not, so you can move it completely freely either way.
On May 07 2010 05:02 QuothTheRaven wrote: Phoenix attack an enemy air unit even when you move (that is, when you use the MOVE command and never tell them to attack): they move flawlessly on their trajectory and rotate (sometimes flying sideways or backwards) to fire out shots as they move.
E.g., you can click MOVE past an enemy air unit and they will move as normal, except that they also fire every time they can as they fly by and are in range.
It's putting a pretty literal emphasis on the move in "moving shot."
This just can't be true. Oh god please tell me this isn't true.
On May 07 2010 05:02 QuothTheRaven wrote: Phoenix attack an enemy air unit even when you move (that is, when you use the MOVE command and never tell them to attack): they move flawlessly on their trajectory and rotate (sometimes flying sideways or backwards) to fire out shots as they move.
E.g., you can click MOVE past an enemy air unit and they will move as normal, except that they also fire every time they can as they fly by and are in range.
It's putting a pretty literal emphasis on the move in "moving shot."
Is that really true? This would be the most retarded change Blizzard made so far.
Yes, you never need to hit attack with the phoenix; you just need to MOVE within range and it'll fire. The phoenix's movement is not affected at all by whether it's firing or not, so you can move it completely freely either way.
Whoa... I just noticed a HUGE carrier change (might be because I'm attacking my own units though) but when you click the carrier to attack something he can move around freely and the interceptors will still be attacking the target!!
On May 07 2010 05:02 QuothTheRaven wrote: Phoenix attack an enemy air unit even when you move (that is, when you use the MOVE command and never tell them to attack): they move flawlessly on their trajectory and rotate (sometimes flying sideways or backwards) to fire out shots as they move.
E.g., you can click MOVE past an enemy air unit and they will move as normal, except that they also fire every time they can as they fly by and are in range.
It's putting a pretty literal emphasis on the move in "moving shot."
Is that really true? This would be the most retarded change Blizzard made so far.
Yes, you never need to hit attack with the phoenix; you just need to MOVE within range and it'll fire. The phoenix's movement is not affected at all by whether it's firing or not, so you can move it completely freely either way.
On May 07 2010 05:10 Smoyf wrote: Whoa... I just noticed a HUGE carrier change (might be because I'm attacking my own units though) but when you click the carrier to attack something he can move around freely and the interceptors will still be attacking the target!!
So the same as in SC:BW?
On May 07 2010 05:11 lolaloc wrote: You take what's inside...????
I doubt you keep the thor if you drop it from the ship.
mutas are MUCH better to control. They don't totally decelerate when firing but retain i would say about 80% of their speed. Also, they are much easier to stack.
Did Archons always have splash? I'm almost positive they didnt. Well now they do. Sorry if i'm wrong but someone confirm it. Just used some and they had splash, so nice.
they totally made the thor shitty. it shouldn't even be called a thor anymore ;/ they made the cannon researchable..........and reduced the damage done per regular attack. the cannon wasn't even that powerful as it took forever to go. and it couldn't even hit air units. it was pretty balanced to begin with imo
On May 07 2010 05:12 StayFrosty wrote: mutas are MUCH better to control. They don't totally decelerate when firing but retain i would say about 80% of their speed. Also, they are much easier to stack.
On May 07 2010 05:12 Phil4994 wrote: Did Archons always have splash? I'm almost positive they didnt. Well now they do. Sorry if i'm wrong but someone confirm it. Just used some and they had splash, so nice.
The splash area was significantly smaller in previous versions.
On May 07 2010 05:12 StayFrosty wrote: mutas are MUCH better to control. They don't totally decelerate when firing but retain i would say about 80% of their speed. Also, they are much easier to stack.
Are you sure? I tried but wasn't able to notice much of a difference.
On May 07 2010 05:12 Phil4994 wrote: Did Archons always have splash? I'm almost positive they didnt. Well now they do. Sorry if i'm wrong but someone confirm it. Just used some and they had splash, so nice.
On May 07 2010 04:53 LUE.Leoj wrote: Well, Thor drops are completely dead.
If by completely dead, then you mean completely better, then yes I agree with you.
Tell me how they're better? Cannons are researched now AND they do less damage (ie - can't kill a queen nearly as quickly). Yeah sounds a ton better to me.
On May 07 2010 05:12 Phil4994 wrote: Did Archons always have splash? I'm almost positive they didnt. Well now they do. Sorry if i'm wrong but someone confirm it. Just used some and they had splash, so nice.
they always got splash but did you mean more splash like in bw ?
On May 07 2010 05:12 Phil4994 wrote: Did Archons always have splash? I'm almost positive they didnt. Well now they do. Sorry if i'm wrong but someone confirm it. Just used some and they had splash, so nice.
can someone confirm this ???
they always had splash.. just not enough splash.. please tell me its more...
Hydras also feel a tad faster off creep unless i am just imagining it
EDIT: The very easy computers also seem a little less brain dead. They casts spells (snipe, Autoturret plus get more then just 5 units, tanks, ravens, BC's
On May 07 2010 05:10 Smoyf wrote: Whoa... I just noticed a HUGE carrier change (might be because I'm attacking my own units though) but when you click the carrier to attack something he can move around freely and the interceptors will still be attacking the target!!
On May 07 2010 05:14 lew wrote: Isn't this what we wanted? More acceleration? Maybe we will see some nice micro battles between phoenixes and muta's for example?
We don't want Phoenixes automatically attacking while moving WITHOUT any additional command though
On May 07 2010 05:12 StayFrosty wrote: mutas are MUCH better to control. They don't totally decelerate when firing but retain i would say about 80% of their speed. Also, they are much easier to stack.
Wow, it looks like LaLush was spot on with some of the changes he recommended. Air units being changed to allow better control and corrupter getting looked at and redone. It makes you wonder how much Blizzard browses these forums.
Also, this looks like a really, really big patch if people aren't just making changes up.
On May 07 2010 05:12 Phil4994 wrote: Did Archons always have splash? I'm almost positive they didnt. Well now they do. Sorry if i'm wrong but someone confirm it. Just used some and they had splash, so nice.
On May 07 2010 05:10 Smoyf wrote: Whoa... I just noticed a HUGE carrier change (might be because I'm attacking my own units though) but when you click the carrier to attack something he can move around freely and the interceptors will still be attacking the target!!
On May 07 2010 04:53 LUE.Leoj wrote: Well, Thor drops are completely dead.
If by completely dead, then you mean completely better, then yes I agree with you.
Tell me how they're better? Cannons are researched now AND they do less damage (ie - can't kill a queen nearly as quickly). Yeah sounds a ton better to me.
Apparently their DPS is higher now
DPS doesn't matter when thor dropping.
The strength of thor dropping was to drop thor, kill a unit in 1 hit, then quickly pick it up again with the medivac, helping it avoid damage. It made the thor very effective at sniping units. You can't do that now
On May 07 2010 05:13 lolreaper wrote: whats with vikings do they also are able to move shot?
They still can't really move and shoot, still just "glide" in the direction they were going. If you issue an attack and tell them to move soon after the attack will never go through.
On May 07 2010 05:12 StayFrosty wrote: mutas are MUCH better to control. They don't totally decelerate when firing but retain i would say about 80% of their speed. Also, they are much easier to stack.
Wow, it looks like LaLush was spot on with some of the changes he recommended. Air units being changed to allow better control and corrupter getting looked at and redone. It makes you wonder how much Blizzard browses these forums.
LOL It would be funny if Lalush was actually a disgruntled Blizzard employee.
What if he created the thread after a heated discussion with his co-workers
On May 07 2010 05:10 Smoyf wrote: Whoa... I just noticed a HUGE carrier change (might be because I'm attacking my own units though) but when you click the carrier to attack something he can move around freely and the interceptors will still be attacking the target!!
This was already present in patch 11. You could have the carriers move away from their target while the interceptors attacked their target. The only problem with it was that the range of it was fairly low.
On May 07 2010 04:53 LUE.Leoj wrote: Well, Thor drops are completely dead.
If by completely dead, then you mean completely better, then yes I agree with you.
Tell me how they're better? Cannons are researched now AND they do less damage (ie - can't kill a queen nearly as quickly). Yeah sounds a ton better to me.
Apparently their DPS is higher now
DPS doesn't matter when thor dropping.
The strength of thor dropping was to drop thor, kill a unit in 1 hit, then quickly pick it up again with the medivac. It made the thor very effective at sniping units. You can't do that now
On May 07 2010 05:02 QuothTheRaven wrote: Phoenix attack an enemy air unit even when you move (that is, when you use the MOVE command and never tell them to attack): they move flawlessly on their trajectory and rotate (sometimes flying sideways or backwards) to fire out shots as they move.
E.g., you can click MOVE past an enemy air unit and they will move as normal, except that they also fire every time they can as they fly by and are in range.
It's putting a pretty literal emphasis on the move in "moving shot."
so now there will be bitching about moving shot because it takes no skill
banelings really didn't need an upgraded in their unupgraded form.. seroiusly.. they increased their speed unupgraded.. wuts the point of even upg em now? lol
On May 07 2010 05:13 lolreaper wrote: whats with vikings do they also are able to move shot?
They still can't really move and shoot, still just "glide" in the direction they were going. If you issue an attack and tell them to move soon after the attack will never go through.
Damn. So other air units are buffed, and from someone else's post - Viking got a small acceleration/movement boost...but still can't kite worth a damn.
On May 07 2010 04:53 LUE.Leoj wrote: Well, Thor drops are completely dead.
If by completely dead, then you mean completely better, then yes I agree with you.
Tell me how they're better? Cannons are researched now AND they do less damage (ie - can't kill a queen nearly as quickly). Yeah sounds a ton better to me.
Apparently their DPS is higher now
DPS doesn't matter when thor dropping.
The strength of thor dropping was to drop thor, kill a unit in 1 hit, then quickly pick it up again with the medivac. It made the thor very effective at sniping units. You can't do that now
Well gee, I wonder why it got nerfed.
so you agree that thor dropping is indeed dead. end of discussion
On May 07 2010 05:10 Smoyf wrote: Whoa... I just noticed a HUGE carrier change (might be because I'm attacking my own units though) but when you click the carrier to attack something he can move around freely and the interceptors will still be attacking the target!!
This was already present in patch 11. You could have the carriers move away from their target while the interceptors attacked their target. The only problem with it was that the range of it was fairly low.
Yeah I spent about an hour experimenting with carriers pre-patch 11 and this was already in the game.
the only good thing about thor is that dropping workers is better now since we can kill more faster. however as far as in battle goes. they shouldn't be called thor anymore ;/
On May 07 2010 04:53 LUE.Leoj wrote: Well, Thor drops are completely dead.
If by completely dead, then you mean completely better, then yes I agree with you.
Tell me how they're better? Cannons are researched now AND they do less damage (ie - can't kill a queen nearly as quickly). Yeah sounds a ton better to me.
Apparently their DPS is higher now
DPS doesn't matter when thor dropping.
The strength of thor dropping was to drop thor, kill a unit in 1 hit, then quickly pick it up again with the medivac. It made the thor very effective at sniping units. You can't do that now
On May 07 2010 05:17 NightOne wrote: banelings really didn't need an upgraded in their unupgraded form.. seroiusly.. they increased their speed unupgraded.. wuts the point of even upg em now? lol
WUT? baneling speed is higher, and u can make it even faster?
On May 07 2010 05:14 lew wrote: Isn't this what we wanted? More acceleration? Maybe we will see some nice micro battles between phoenixes and muta's for example?
No, if it's just a move command you cannot target, you just fly around. That's a fail for micro battles.
On May 07 2010 04:38 Mazar wrote: Mutalisk micro is back. they can do what the phoenix does
WHAT? am i seeing correctly?
When I was using them they were WAY more responsive. You could even group them with an overlord to make them stack easier. They would have to very briefly stop moving to attack but if you gave them a move command they didn't have to accelerate or decelerate, they just kept the speed before they attacked.
omg... Just tested. If you press H to attack while you rightclick to move away, it's basically like BW muta micro.
And I was struggling vs muta/ling before this, haha.
On May 07 2010 04:53 LUE.Leoj wrote: Well, Thor drops are completely dead.
If by completely dead, then you mean completely better, then yes I agree with you.
Tell me how they're better? Cannons are researched now AND they do less damage (ie - can't kill a queen nearly as quickly). Yeah sounds a ton better to me.
Apparently their DPS is higher now
DPS doesn't matter when thor dropping.
The strength of thor dropping was to drop thor, kill a unit in 1 hit, then quickly pick it up again with the medivac. It made the thor very effective at sniping units. You can't do that now
Well gee, I wonder why it got nerfed.
It was already rendered semi-useless with the 9 range neural parasite. I mean come on, it's not like reavers didn't have the potential to 1 hit dozens of drones in SC1.
Hahaha I'm starting to wonder about the validity of this "fix it if people don't think it is fun" strategy that Blizzard is using, according to that blue thread on Bnet forums from earlier today. I'm not sure how good that is for subtle changes, but maybe it actually works on a broad scale, revamping units that arent used because they just suck in comparison to other strats.
StarCraft II Beta - Patch 11 (version 0.13.0.15250)
StarCraft II Beta – Patch 11 (version 0.13.0.15250)
The latest patch notes can always be found on the StarCraft II Beta General Discussion forum.
Balance Changes
* TERRAN o Battlecruiser + The build time has been decreased from 110 to 90. o Fusion Core + The build time has been decreased from 80 to 65. o Hellion + The range has been increased from 5 to 6. o Planetary Fortress + The splash damage now originates from the center of the target, rather than the impact location near the unit in order to maintain more reliable splash damage. o Raven + Seeker Missile range has been decreased from 9 to 6. + Seeker Missile splash radius has been decreased from 2.4 to 2. + Seeker Missile upgrade no longer requires Fusion Core. o Siege Tank + Life increased from 150 to 160. + Siege Mode splash damage now originates from the center of the target, rather than the impact location near the unit in order to maintain more reliable splash damage. o Thor + Ground damage decreased from 45 to 30. + Ground rate of fire improved from 1.93 to 1.28. + Air damage changed from 8 (+4 Light) to 6 (+6 Light). + 250mm Strike Cannons are now an upgrade at the Factory Tech Lab. + 250mm Strike Cannons research now costs 150/150 and 110 seconds. + 250mm Strike Cannons energy cost increased from 100 to 150. + Anti-Air splash damage now originates from the center of the target, rather than the impact location near the unit in order to maintain more reliable splash damage.
* PROTOSS o Archon + The splash radius has been increased from 0.8 to 1. + Splash damage now originates from the center of the target, rather than the impact location near the unit in order to maintain more reliable splash damage. o Colossus + The damage has been decreased from 20 to 15. + The rate of fire has been improved from 2.2 to 1.65. o Phoenix + Can now attack while moving. o Sentry + The damage has been decreased from 8 to 6.
* ZERG o Brood Lord + Life has been decreased from 275 to 225. + Armor has been decreased from 2 to 1. o Corruptor + Corruptor damage changed from 12 (+10 Massive) to 14 (+6 Massive). + Corruptor speed increased from 2.75 to 2.9531 + Corruption ability redesigned: # Single target. # Increases damage taken by 20%. # Lasts 30 seconds. # Costs 100 energy. # Range 6. # Cannot target structures. o Infestor + Neural Parasite is now an upgrade at the Infestation Pit. + Neural Parasite research costs 150/150 and 110 seconds. + Neural Parasite can now target Air units. + Neural Parasite energy cost increased from 50 to 100. o Spine Crawler + The root time has been increased from 6 to 12. o Spore Crawler + The root time has been increased from 6 to 12. o Ultralisk + Damage has been increased from 18 to 25.
Hotkey Changes
* General o In order to resolve a conflict with building multiple Forges with the Shift Key we have made the following changes: + Changed Center Camera from Shift+F to Ctrl+F. * Standard o To prevent the accidental research of Ventral Sacs when trying to train an Overlord with no Larva available, the hotkey has been changed from V to E. o View Own Health Bars functionality added to the Backslash key * Standard for Lefties o Due to a conflict with research Banshee Cloak, research Seeker Missile has been changed from L to K. o To correct a conflict with the Attack command on Planetary Fortress, train SCV has been changed from K to J. o In order to prevent the accidental training of Zerglings when using the Select Larva hotkey,train Zergling has been changed from L to J. o To prevent the accidental training of a Queen, train Ultralisk has been changed from U to T. o To prevent the accidental research of Pneumatized Carapace when trying to train a corruptor with no Larva available, research Pneumatized Carapace has been changed from P to C. o View All Status Bars has been changed from Q to the Alt key. o View own Status Bars functionality has been added to the Q key. * Grid for Lefties o Attack Move and all other buttons in the 0,4 position should now function correctly. o View Own Status Bars functionality added to Q. o View Enemy Status Bars moved to W. o View Ally Status Bars moved to E. * Classic o Changed build Nydus Canal from P to N. o Changed Place Nydus Canal ability from P to N. o Terran Infantry Weapon researches have been changed from E to W. o Terran Vehicle Weapon researches have been changed from E to W. o Train Thor hotkey has been changed from O to G. o Train Viking hotkey has been changed from Y to W. o View Own Status Bars functionality has been added to the Backslash key.
Icon Position Changes
* To put all race gas extractors in the same icon position, the positions of the Supply Depot/Refinery and Pylon/Assimilator have been swapped. * In order to make transforming multiple Gateways easier for players using Grid key sets, Transform to Gateway has been moved to a separate icon position (2,1).
Bug Fixes
* Corrected an issue that was causing the Polish language client to crash when receiving the "player is no longer being revealed” message. * Corrected incorrect battle.net links on multiple language clients pages. * Corrected an issue where the Zealot was using an US English voice over in the Korean language client. * Corrected an issue where a player is unable to build any structures that require pylon power when their protoss ally leaves. * Units can no longer be healed or repaired while in transports. * Corrected an issue where the Creep Tumor targeting circle was visible to opponents through Fog of War. * Corrected an issue in which selecting a Starport under construction and a completed Starport would display the select builder command in the Viking slot. * Corrected the Broodling weapon icon.
Phoenix are INSANE LOL Just fly by an overlord with 6 and they auto attack it as they pass you don't have to issue attack move or anything... and they will shoot sideways and backwards LOL
On May 07 2010 05:18 Zexion wrote: Can someone please explain the Collosi nerf? It seems no one saw my eariler post. So they've buffed air and nerfed ground? Nice.
Yeah, they've buffed templars, but as if that will make up for a 6 damage nerf on Collosi...
Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I really don't understand. And once again, I'm not a protoss player.
It does identical DPS when standing still and firing, but they do less damage and fire fast.
So, Instead of killing Hydras in 2 shots of 40 damage a piece in 2.2 seconds (one instantly, then a 2.2s cooldown, then another shot), they'll kill Hydras in 3 shots of 30 damage in 3.3 seconds (instant hit, 1.65s cooldown, hit, 1.65s cooldown, hit).
Its a pretty big nerf, especially considering they can't get the shot off, then quickly run away blasting at that point on the ground. They have to stand still the whole time they're firing now.
Its pretty-much overkill for the Collossus I think. I'm sure as hell not using the things anymore. HTs are way more versatile, reliable and can actually kill blobs of air units!
On May 07 2010 05:10 Kalpman wrote: What's up with the Battlecruiser buff? Blizzard thinks there is too few noobs BC-rushing?
BCs weren't much more viable than carriers. Slightly, just because they are an ok late game transition from banshees and are useful even if you only have 1 or 2 as a DPS unit and damage sponge.
Phoenix "moving shot" isnt just easy, its impossible to not do. Simply moving by a unit that it can hit will cause it to attack, even without stopping.
Confirmed that phoenix never ever has to hit the "a" attack key in order to endlessly shoot while moving. On the other hand, this makes it harder for them to focus fire a particular unit while moving, since they're firing instead of cooling down.
Also, interceptor attack has been fixed, and will attack the next target without having to return. However, they cannot "pre deploy" interceptors like Brood War.
Guess I will have to rethink my Broodlord build I was practicing. Oh well the changes seem harsh to most but if you just got the beta it really wouldn't hurt you. "Oh thor's could 1 shot hydras?" These changes make sense damage wise.
On May 07 2010 05:28 TheRabidDeer wrote: Phoenix "moving shot" isnt just easy, its impossible to not do. Simply moving by a unit that it can hit will cause it to attack, even without stopping. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31kSA0Guqpo
Wow, that looks hilarious and totally sweet. *&$* YOU, MUTALISKS! *$@( YOU IN THE GLAIVE-CHUTE!
On May 07 2010 05:24 crimsonsentinel wrote: LOL I like how they call clickers "grid users"
I think that refers to people use the grid hotkey layout (as in qwer, asdf, zxcv or whatever they are)
Also the fact that the whole "moving shot" thing turned into them literally making the phoenix shoot while you issue it move commands is kind of frightening.
They might be listening, but they sure as fuck don't understand
On May 07 2010 05:12 StayFrosty wrote: mutas are MUCH better to control. They don't totally decelerate when firing but retain i would say about 80% of their speed. Also, they are much easier to stack.
:O carrier and muta micro return?
The biggest unlisted patch change:
what will be the new hot thing to complain about on TeamLiquid?
On May 07 2010 05:24 crimsonsentinel wrote: LOL I like how they call clickers "grid users"
I think that refers to people use the grid hotkey layout (as in qwer, asdf, zxcv or whatever they are)
Also the fact that the whole "moving shot" thing turned into them literally making the phoenix shoot while you issue it move commands is kind of frightening.
They might be listening, but they sure as fuck don't understand
LOL ya you're completely right. I find it funny as hell.
On May 07 2010 05:27 Infiltrator wrote: How come some changes here don't match with the official ones? You say DTs move faster, for example, but its not listed in the patch notes.
lots of changes are not listed in the official notes, this happens with every patch
Phoenix buff is actually pretty huge vs terran. I can't see banshee harass being effective at all vs a phoenix with a moving shot. Even when guarded by marines and vikings the phoenix will be pretty effective at taking these out.
Finally those pesky crawlers can't just reposition themselves every time I try to force my way into a Zerg base.
Also, the sentry damage nerf is a welcome change - I just hope I can still use sentry / stalker to deal with mutalisks and / or the Phoenix buff makes them actually so much more microable that I can reliably fend mutas off with them.
Oh the topic exploded, including that video...rofl, that just looks too easy :D
On May 07 2010 05:17 hunter3 wrote: The Phoenix micro is pretty sick right now. It can shoot flying sideways or even backwards.
but if I don't have to hit H or P at a predetermined time, that means its not real SKILL MICRO!
Agreed...Blizz is noobifying this game to astronomic levels with "auto-micro". The auto-split of workers - ok...smart cast? Ehh. But automated moving shot? *facepalm*
blarrrrrrghh.. this patch looks a lil ridiculous tbh. automated moving shots? trying to make the ultralisk more useful by upping its dmg when its real problems are its speed and bulkiness? Whats the point, even if theyd do 90 dmg per swipe theyd be useless as fuck, since every damn ranged unit in the game is faster than them and can kite them around forever. Trying to fix the forcefield by nerfing the base damage of the sentry?? Its kinda funny how blizz realizes which units neeed fixing and then make changes that do all kinds of shit but fail to fix the actual problems with those units.
On May 07 2010 05:28 TheRabidDeer wrote: Phoenix "moving shot" isnt just easy, its impossible to not do. Simply moving by a unit that it can hit will cause it to attack, even without stopping. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31kSA0Guqpo
WOW... okay I know I wanted a phoenix buff but thats just fucking ridiculous. Thats not what we meant by "moving shot" blizz :[... is blizz seriously trying to take any and all skill out of this game 1 element at a time?
What about the Archon, do people think it is actually more usable now? And what does "Splash damage now originates from the center of the target" exactly mean?
On May 07 2010 05:28 TheRabidDeer wrote: Phoenix "moving shot" isnt just easy, its impossible to not do. Simply moving by a unit that it can hit will cause it to attack, even without stopping. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31kSA0Guqpo
WOW... okay I know I wanted a phoenix buff but thats just fucking ridiculous. Thats not what we meant by "moving shot" blizz :[... is blizz seriously trying to take any and all skill out of this game 1 element at a time?
On May 07 2010 05:28 TheRabidDeer wrote: Phoenix "moving shot" isnt just easy, its impossible to not do. Simply moving by a unit that it can hit will cause it to attack, even without stopping. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31kSA0Guqpo
LMAO... that's the funniest shit i've ever seen blizzard do
On May 07 2010 05:28 TheRabidDeer wrote: Phoenix "moving shot" isnt just easy, its impossible to not do. Simply moving by a unit that it can hit will cause it to attack, even without stopping. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31kSA0Guqpo
The new Phoenix is AWESOME. And to all you peoples whining about taking skill out of the game, this will still require skill to use to its maximum potential. What this change accomplishes, though, is it makes the Phoenix MUCH stronger against the unit it's designed to counter, the Mutalisk, without making it that much stronger against Battlecruisers and other "heavier" air. But Phoenixes are gonna be sooo much fun to see in action.
banelings look like they move exactly the same speed ultralisks look a little faster i think? dunno didnt really use em much (still wont..force field completely nullifies them, still die extremely fast to stimmed marauders)
On May 07 2010 05:28 TheRabidDeer wrote: Phoenix "moving shot" isnt just easy, its impossible to not do. Simply moving by a unit that it can hit will cause it to attack, even without stopping. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31kSA0Guqpo
On May 07 2010 05:17 hunter3 wrote: The Phoenix micro is pretty sick right now. It can shoot flying sideways or even backwards.
but if I don't have to hit H or P at a predetermined time, that means its not real SKILL MICRO!
Agreed...Blizz is noobifying this game to astronomic levels with "auto-micro". The auto-split of workers - ok...smart cast? Ehh. But automated moving shot? *facepalm*
Its not like corsair moving shot was hard at all; it practically did it by itself anyways
On May 07 2010 05:38 Fugitive wrote: What about the Archon, do people think it is actually more usable now? And what does "Splash damage now originates from the center of the target" exactly mean?
I think it originally did damage originating from a point on a hidden grid (the building grid?) closest to the unit. Kind of hard to explain without a picture. So I drew one!
Say a Siege Tank shoots at the Zealot. In the old system, the explosion would be centered on the grid point, whereas in the new system, its centered on the Zealot himself.
On May 07 2010 05:45 Captain Peabody wrote: And anyway, all you haters got your Muta micro back, so there's a net gain in micro. Everyone knows Protoss is for noobs anyway!
wtf are you talking about. i just tested..mutas seem exactly the same ..in micro and all aspects
These are the worst patch notes I have ever seen. I don't even understand why they would even begin to think making spore crawler take longer to burrow was necessary. It desperately needed to burrow faster. Spine crawler I understand but I don't think was necessary. Neural parasite was nerfed (double mana cost + expensive upgrade with nearly 2 minute research time basically kills half of its use). Corruptor's were also nerfed, the new ability is terrible id rather have my turret/cannon/PF disable back instead of some ability that makes some key units die a couple hits faster.'
Why wont they just stop letting sentrys cast forcefield on top of units and just fix the problem. There is nothing balanced about being able to cut an army in half with a few spells. Why do they think that slightly reducing the sentry's damage fixes force field? Its not the fact that you die too quick its that you can't fight with your army. Oh and by the way phoenix now are incredibly easy to use and cannot be stopped by anything other than a critical mass of hydralisks, if you can catch them. Sweet.
On May 07 2010 05:44 Captain Peabody wrote: The new Phoenix is AWESOME. And to all you peoples whining about taking skill out of the game, this will still require skill to use to its maximum potential. What this change accomplishes, though, is it makes the Phoenix MUCH stronger against the unit it's designed to counter, the Mutalisk, without making it that much stronger against Battlecruisers and other "heavier" air. But Phoenixes are gonna be sooo much fun to see in action.
Why wont they just stop letting sentrys cast forcefield on top of units and just fix the problem. There is nothing balanced about being able to cut an army in half with a few spells. Why do they think that slightly reducing the sentry's damage fixes force field? Its not the fact that you die too quick its that you can't fight with your army. Oh and by the way phoenix now are incredibly easy to use and cannot be stopped by anything other than a critical mass of hydralisks, if you can catch them. Sweet.
Slightly? 8 to 6 is a 25% decrease. The reason that sentries were too strong was that a Protoss could fill up their army with lots of em and not have their damage output be hurt much. But now if a Protoss gets a ton of sentries, the overall strength of their army will be lessened to the point where they can't really win fights. FF needs to be the same as it is, it was just that Protoss didn't have a disadvantage to making sentries. But now Protoss have to balance damage vs field.
wtf are you talking about. i just tested..mutas seem exactly the same ..in micro and all aspects
From earlier in the thread:
On May 07 2010 05:12 StayFrosty wrote: mutas are MUCH better to control. They don't totally decelerate when firing but retain i would say about 80% of their speed. Also, they are much easier to stack.
On May 07 2010 05:46 Zelniq wrote: banelings look like they move exactly the same speed ultralisks look a little faster i think? dunno didnt really use em much (still wont..force field completely nullifies them, still die extremely fast to stimmed marauders)
You should be able to check the editor, or do these simple tests to confirm.
Does an upgraded Baneling move at the same speed as an UNupgraded Zergling? (2.9531)
Does an UNupgraded Ultra move at the same speed as an UNupgraded Baneling? (2.5)
On May 07 2010 05:12 StayFrosty wrote: mutas are MUCH better to control. They don't totally decelerate when firing but retain i would say about 80% of their speed. Also, they are much easier to stack.
I haven't tested it or anything, though.
It's pretty baseless: I've used mutas a lot before patch, and just tried a decent amount. I couldn't notice any difference. If they WERE changed, it was pretty subtle at best.
On May 07 2010 05:43 HalfAmazing wrote: Sup Blizz, I won't be paying for this.
Signed, everyone with a clue.
Yea, you're totally not an arrogant douchebag.
I can see some interesting micro appear from the phoenix-change. Because mutas stop when they shoot, players will be microing back and forth - the zerg will want to catch the phoenixes as they are moving towards the mutas and the phoenixes will want to be moving away from the mutas as they attack.
This solution makes it work at a lower level but it will still reward skillful micro.
On May 07 2010 05:44 Captain Peabody wrote: The new Phoenix is AWESOME. And to all you peoples whining about taking skill out of the game, this will still require skill to use to its maximum potential. What this change accomplishes, though, is it makes the Phoenix MUCH stronger against the unit it's designed to counter, the Mutalisk, without making it that much stronger against Battlecruisers and other "heavier" air. But Phoenixes are gonna be sooo much fun to see in action.
Me likey...oh, yes, me likey very much.
This change basically shows that they just don't know what a moving shot is in SC terms.
Ok I'm gonna try a different term: Blizzard we want ANIMATION CANCELLING. Not, I repeat NOT, automatic micro.
On May 07 2010 05:54 FrozenArbiter wrote: Ok I'm gonna try a different term: Blizzard we want ANIMATION CANCELLING. Not, I repeat NOT, automatic micro.
In case anyone from Blizzard is reading, this should be repeated as many times as possible in the coming weeks.
Why wont they just stop letting sentrys cast forcefield on top of units and just fix the problem. There is nothing balanced about being able to cut an army in half with a few spells. Why do they think that slightly reducing the sentry's damage fixes force field? Its not the fact that you die too quick its that you can't fight with your army. Oh and by the way phoenix now are incredibly easy to use and cannot be stopped by anything other than a critical mass of hydralisks, if you can catch them. Sweet.
Slightly? 8 to 6 is a 25% decrease. The reason that sentries were too strong was that a Protoss could fill up their army with lots of em and not have their damage output be hurt much. But now if a Protoss gets a ton of sentries, the overall strength of their army will be lessened to the point where they can't really win fights. FF needs to be the same as it is, it was just that Protoss didn't have a disadvantage to making sentries. But now Protoss have to balance damage vs field.
Its not like you need 20 sentries to have effective force fields. You can abuse it with 6-10 and if you're playing a macro game its not exactly a hard thing to have. You make it seem as if you have enough forcefields to cut armies in half your entire army is suffering at a 25% dps decrease. You might suffer a 5% dps decrease.
On May 07 2010 05:44 Captain Peabody wrote: The new Phoenix is AWESOME. And to all you peoples whining about taking skill out of the game, this will still require skill to use to its maximum potential. What this change accomplishes, though, is it makes the Phoenix MUCH stronger against the unit it's designed to counter, the Mutalisk, without making it that much stronger against Battlecruisers and other "heavier" air. But Phoenixes are gonna be sooo much fun to see in action.
Me likey...oh, yes, me likey very much.
This change basically shows that they just don't know what a moving shot is in SC terms.
Ok I'm gonna try a different term: Blizzard we want ANIMATION CANCELLING. Not, I repeat NOT, automatic micro.
They'll just think that means you want to stop Collossi firing their lasers and run away when you issue a move command immediately after an attack.
You want what the Phoenix does now, but you don't want it to automatically fire. You want to control it.
On May 07 2010 05:45 Captain Peabody wrote: And anyway, all you haters got your Muta micro back, so there's a net gain in micro. Everyone knows Protoss is for noobs anyway!
wtf are you talking about. i just tested..mutas seem exactly the same ..in micro and all aspects
Use the mutas like BW mutas: group w/slow ovie, spam right clicks to move, press H to attack. If you right click to attack they still stop, but if you press H, it's basically like BW.
If it was like that before this patch, it was the best kept secret ever.
It's pretty baseless: I've used mutas a lot before patch, and just tried a decent amount. I couldn't notice any difference. If they WERE changed, it was pretty subtle at best.
Welll...3 or 4 people (including Tadzio) in this thread have said that Mutas are more responsive...but 3 or 4 other people have said not. Color me confused.
Are you grouping them with an Overlord and doing this:
Tadzio said: omg... Just tested. If you press H to attack while you rightclick to move away, it's basically like BW muta micro.
And I was struggling vs muta/ling before this, haha.
On May 07 2010 05:10 Smoyf wrote: Whoa... I just noticed a HUGE carrier change (might be because I'm attacking my own units though) but when you click the carrier to attack something he can move around freely and the interceptors will still be attacking the target!!
How is zerg meant to fight colossus now? NP got an absolutely crippling nerf Corruptors do less damage to them yes they got a damage nerf, but their dps stays the same.
Old dps 2(20 - a) / 2.2 = 18.18 repeating New dps 2(15 - a) / 1.65 = 18.18 repeating a = 0
Less burst, and less kiting ability, but with the zerg nerfs it has seen an increase in relative power.
Thors have been made less powerful vs hydras, ultralisks and broodlords, and more powerful vs lings. The broodlord armour and hp nerf makes the fight between thor and broodlord probably the same as pre-patch. The 250mm cannon being researched and more expensive energy wise makes ultralisks more viable vs terran, but marauders still completely rape ultralisks...
overall small dps increase vs 0 armour, vs 6 armour of ultra though, it is doing less dps Old dps 2(45 - a) / 1.93 = 46.632 New dps 2(30 - a) / 1.28 = 46.875 a = 0
crawler root nerf will make it even more difficult to defend any sort of early protoss timing pushes, especially the fast colossus push, as zerg will not be able to have a NP out for an additional 110 seconds, and will have less of them.
overall I see zerg losing a lot more games this patch...
the one positive of this patch is it made mass infestor more viable in FFA maps. I can just walk in with 30 infestors and NP their whole fleet of carriers/BCs...
I seriously can't even believe the phoenix change. $10000 they change it soon, that is NOT what the peoples meant.
I really also wish Blizzard would do us a Fing favor and document the un-documented patch notes. When will they Fing truly realize (they say they do) that we know the game better than they do...So stop trying to hide crap, or make us figure crap out...
This patch really broke my spirits. Well, seeing that phoenix video is what really broke my spirits.
Its a great patch, it just really feels like they took the game in a different direction...I guess this is part of the stress of being in their beta.
On May 07 2010 06:06 Shiladie wrote: How is zerg meant to fight colossus now? NP got an absolutely crippling nerf Corruptors do less damage to them yes they got a damage nerf, but their dps stays the same.
This is purely theory crafting but the corruptor spell on a colossus increases hydra/roach damage on that colossus?
On May 07 2010 05:44 Captain Peabody wrote: The new Phoenix is AWESOME. And to all you peoples whining about taking skill out of the game, this will still require skill to use to its maximum potential. What this change accomplishes, though, is it makes the Phoenix MUCH stronger against the unit it's designed to counter, the Mutalisk, without making it that much stronger against Battlecruisers and other "heavier" air. But Phoenixes are gonna be sooo much fun to see in action.
Me likey...oh, yes, me likey very much.
This change basically shows that they just don't know what a moving shot is in SC terms.
Ok I'm gonna try a different term: Blizzard we want ANIMATION CANCELLING. Not, I repeat NOT, automatic micro.
Yeah, I'm sure they didn't watch one game of BW muta micro and not know what it is, right.
They probably just don't give a shit about animation canceling.
On May 07 2010 05:45 Captain Peabody wrote: And anyway, all you haters got your Muta micro back, so there's a net gain in micro. Everyone knows Protoss is for noobs anyway!
wtf are you talking about. i just tested..mutas seem exactly the same ..in micro and all aspects
Use the mutas like BW mutas: group w/slow ovie, spam right clicks to move, press H to attack. If you right click to attack they still stop, but if you press H, it's basically like BW.
If it was like that before this patch, it was the best kept secret ever.
Can you just group it with a building and get the same effect?
Also thats going to be so strong with unlimited selection
On May 07 2010 06:06 Shiladie wrote: How is zerg meant to fight colossus now? NP got an absolutely crippling nerf Corruptors do less damage to them yes they got a damage nerf, but their dps stays the same.
This is purely theory crafting but the corruptor spell on a colossus increases hydra/roach damage on that colossus?
There's still the problem that the colossus is at 9 range still, a 20% hp nerf on the colossus wouldn't cause this to balance out. I won't say it's completely broken until I see it more in action, but I think there will be some major timing push problems in PvZs with backdoors...
the fact it is a % increase and must be cast irks me, it's like they're trying to make the devourer, but don't want to admit that is what they want to do...
Its going to take Collossi 3.3 seconds to kill a single Hydra, instead of 2.2. I don't think you have any worries of getting raped by them any time soon.
i noticed the crazy clicking in that phoenix video so i made one with minimal clicking. you basically just have to move your phoenix back and fourth ...
On May 07 2010 04:45 Zelniq wrote: MARAUDERS ARE NOW MASSIVE UNITS lol
i guess so they cant be slowed by other marauders? wat els?
They can't be lifted by graviton beam, WTF
If this is true that marauders are now massive - I QUIT THIS GAME AND WILL NEVER EVER BUY IT IN MY LIFE!
YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT... ITS NOT THE GRAVITATIONAL BEAM THE PROBLEM... if marauders are massive IMMORTALS NO LONGER RECEIVE ADDITIONAL DMG FOR ARMORED!
seriously?! I mean really ?!?!!? REALY?!?!?!
I thought there were not suppose to be any GOD UNITS IN THIS game omg I'm so pissed off....
On May 07 2010 04:45 Zelniq wrote: MARAUDERS ARE NOW MASSIVE UNITS lol
i guess so they cant be slowed by other marauders? wat els?
They can't be lifted by graviton beam, WTF
If this is true that marauders are now massive - I QUIT THIS GAME AND WILL NEVER EVER BUY IT IN MY LIFE!
YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT... ITS NOT THE GRAVITATIONAL BEAM THE PROBLEM... if marauders are massive IMMORTALS NO LONGER RECEIVE ADDITIONAL DMG FOR ARMORED!
seriously?! I mean really ?!?!!? REALY?!?!?!
I thought there were not suppose to be any GOD UNITS IN THIS game omg I'm so pissed off....
What the fuck are you talking about?
Armoured and Massive aren't exclusive. Its either
Armoured or Light Biological or Mechanical
Those are the only two cases of mutal exclusivity in unit attributes. Psionic, Massive and Structure are wildcards.
P.S. The only exception to the above 2 rules is the SCV being both mechanical and biological.
On May 07 2010 06:23 Koffiegast wrote: The rate of fire has been improved from 2.2 to 1.65.
How is that a nerf :/
Damage from 20 to 15. I don't know how this works out vs the various units (read: hydras and roaches) if someone would want to do the math on those units vs colossus it would be appreciated.
On May 07 2010 06:22 DreamOen wrote: Noone thinks that the Colossus nerf its a bit hard?
The rate of fire has been improved from 2.2 to 1.65.
How is that a nerf :/
it takes longer to kill a hydralisk. needs 3 attacks, so about 5 seconds, instead of just two, which was about 4.5 seconds.
kiting is harder, thats a nerf.
armor is factored in more times, thats a nerf.
can we avoid making broad claims like "holy shit pheonixes are retarded, thors are useless, thores are too powerful" before we play a little bit? its a different version of the game, no shit you have to play differently.
On May 07 2010 06:23 Koffiegast wrote: The rate of fire has been improved from 2.2 to 1.65.
How is that a nerf :/
Damage from 20 to 15. I don't know how this works out vs the various units (read: hydras and roaches) if someone would want to do the math on those units vs colossus it would be appreciated.
Before
0.00 - Attack, 40 damage 2.20 - Attack, 80 damage - first group of Hydra targets die
Now
0.00 - Attack, 30 damage 1.65 - Attack, 60 damage 3.30 - Attack, 90 damage - first group of Hydra targets die
In a vacuum, the DPS is identical, but in reality, they are going to be a hell of a lot weaker. Same applies to the Thor. Because units generally fire, THEN the attack cools down, its a pretty big nerf.
A front-loaded combat system like Starcraft 2's favours units with higher upfront damage.
On May 07 2010 06:23 Koffiegast wrote: The rate of fire has been improved from 2.2 to 1.65.
How is that a nerf :/
Damage from 20 to 15. I don't know how this works out vs the various units (read: hydras and roaches) if someone would want to do the math on those units vs colossus it would be appreciated.
Colossus will no longer 2-shot hydras unless they have +3 weapons and hydras have 0 armor (highly unlikely). Colossus will only 1-shot zerglings if they have +2 weapons and zerglings have 0 or 1 armor. Colossus will take 6 shots to kill a roach at 0/0/0 and 0/0 upgrades for both (pretty big change from pre-patch where colossi would kill a roach in 4 hits at 0/0/0 and 0/0).
Overall, I'd say it's a pretty huge nerf.
Phoenix moving shot seems incredibly easy to pull off but you know what they say, be careful what you wish for! x]
Yup. All the more reason to go with the much more versatile High Templar complete with DT harass and Stargate units. Robo just got kicked in the android giblets.