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On August 15 2009 05:03 Nylan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2009 02:43 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 15 2009 02:01 Nylan wrote:On August 15 2009 01:46 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 15 2009 00:48 Nylan wrote:On August 15 2009 00:20 TwoToneTerran wrote: I think, if Jaedong wins the OSL overall (he should), he should probably take the #1 spot. If this happens, they kind of break even, with a tie betwixt them, Fantasy kicking Jaedong out of PL and Jaedong kicking Fantasy out of OSL (again!). But I think there's something special to say about a Golden Mouse before the kid turns 20, and that something special should be a #1.
BUT, if the rank went up RIGHT now with Fantasy at #1 and Jaedong at #2, I wouldn't bat an eyelash. I wouldn't necessarily agree, but Fantasy played out of this world too.
Also the loss to Calm shouldn't be put against him, I think. The guy had two semifinals, and from last night's game, it's OBVIOUS what he prioritized, and he prioritized damn well. Retarded excuse, Calm straight up outclassed him, there's no way that can't be put against him no matter how tiring his schedule. It's also interesting to note that if you exclude WCG, then Jaedong can't get higher than a 50% win percentage this month. You're the kind of guy who said Stork shouldn't have gotten #1 when he won his OSL because he lost to Kal in MSL, aren't you? False accusation is false. Consider the facts. Um, it's an analogy, albeit a tongue in cheek one. Did you honestly expect Jaedong to push to the finals in both leagues at once? It's like when he dropped to Effort in GOM, though Calm definitely played very well. If Jaedong loses to Yarnc, then the boy had better drop a few places, but I for one will not fault him for sacrificing a tournament (that he made it to the semifinals anyhow) for one that is obviously much more important to him. I'm not sure how you could stare a golden mouse, back to back OSL, and an absolutely incredible overall season so poorly, regardless of him not outright winning everything. The worst he did was only making it to GOM quarters, where he dropped it so he could advance in MSL and OSL. Now he gets to the semifinals of both and he makes an obvious choice in beating his toughest competition in Fantasy. Fact is, Jaedong lost to Calm and Fantasy. Fact ALSO is that Jaedong beat Fantasy in Fantasy's proclaimed best type of series (How many people have said he's some monster bo5er?). I think it's fair enough to atleast mitigate his loss to Calm, seeing as he beat Fantasy in that spectacular series. It's not an outright waive of the loss, but it's certainly a good reason. In all honesty, I think it comes down to how you rank the leagues. Jaedong has (or seems like he will) triumph in the OSL. Calm has (or, amusingly, seems like he will) triumph in the MSL. Fantasy proved himself in PL. The only difference here is, while they all did well in their respective leagues, ONLY Jaedong did well in all of them while still remaining top dog in one. Calm was nowhere to be seen in OSL, and fumbled his PL games like Jaedong. Fantasy did very well in the OSL (comparatively to how well Jaedong did in the MSL), WON Proleague with 2 great wins, and did relatively poor in MSL. Jaedong's once a semifinalist(msl), and twice a finalist (PL and OSL). Throw in a respectable showing and GOM and it'd be daft to think Jaedong did anything other than put up monster results this season, regardless of dropping series in ZvZ in the weaker tourneys. Yes, the weight of his losses should be lessened, but they should NOT be counted out or not considered balance-tipping. Calm's victory absolutely has to be counted against him to some extent, as it was not only indicative of his performance this month but it is a failing. Dropping out of a league has always been more likely to drop someone a rank than that person not being in a particular league - just look at Bisu right now. Those games were part of Jaedong's play this month, and as such have to be considered when judging JD's overall this performance this month. Even with the dampener that is scheduling, it can't just be considered a minor detail, it's what he's done this month. It being a ZvZ also mirrors your "Fantasy Bo5 King failure" argument. I do agree that ranking the leagues has a lot to do with it as well, of course. My thoughts trend more towards the fact that not only is PL considered most important (according to many interviews...although not without argument), but it was the actual PL final, whereas this OSL match was only a semifinal and thus of lesser significance, something that cannot be ignored. Fantasy beat JD on the bigger stage by both of those criteria, so I think he's got the edge as of now. Of course, there's still half a month to go, so yeah Jaedong has more opportunities to move up (and the golden mouse is a biggie). As it stands, however, he's not #1. No player with a 4-7 record should really be given such consideration. I must also take issue with your analysis of how well each player did in the leagues though, as fantasy only fell to Bisu, who is not only one of the best players out there but also his teammate. You must also factor in the (relatively small) detail that the SKT players didn't have a shot at GOM, as small of a footnote as it may be. Once again, we've still got half a month, so we'll see what happens.
My entire argument was on the stipulation of, "If Jaedong wins the OSL." so yeah.
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+ Show Spoiler +I think Flash's 92% TvT record over the last three months and winning GOM should award him a position on next month's power rank... let's say a modest #10 spot. + Show Spoiler +But then, he only got there by defeating July, who was playing poorly, and this proves that Flash can't win when it matters against good opponents.
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On August 16 2009 20:20 okum wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I think Flash's 92% TvT record over the last two months and winning GOM should award him a position on next month's power rank... let's say a modest #10 spot. + Show Spoiler +But then, he only got there by defeating July, who was playing poorly, and this proves that Flash can't win when it matters against good opponents.
+ Show Spoiler +He went 3-1 and not 3-0? COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE. NOT close and NO cigar for Flash next month! Plus Flash played bad! Plus GOM doesn't matter! Plus I hate Flash! Flash is a turtle! Flash shot my dog! Flash isn't on SKT1!
There, I think I covered all my bases.
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On August 16 2009 20:27 Hinanawi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2009 20:20 okum wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I think Flash's 92% TvT record over the last two months and winning GOM should award him a position on next month's power rank... let's say a modest #10 spot. + Show Spoiler +But then, he only got there by defeating July, who was playing poorly, and this proves that Flash can't win when it matters against good opponents. + Show Spoiler +He went 3-1 and not 3-0? COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE. NOT close and NO cigar for Flash next month! Plus Flash played bad! Plus GOM doesn't matter! Plus I hate Flash! Flash is a turtle! Flash shot my dog! Flash isn't on SKT1! Flash isn't on SKT1! Flash isn't on SKT1! There, I think I covered all my bases. corrected, but seriously FlaSh is way ahead of any other terran, he was in GOM finals and that wasn't enough to put him in PR. Someone should change the PR name to SKT1 wish rank
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Russian Federation405 Posts
Yes, it’s time to rename PR to "SKT wish rank"!
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So Flash is 13-1 in his last 14 TvTs, most of them against A and S-class Terrans. FvT indeed.
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Russian Federation405 Posts
On August 16 2009 20:43 Hinanawi wrote: So Flash is 13-1 in his last 14 TvTs, most of them against A and S-class Terrans. FvT indeed. Only after 2300 ELO level! (JD has > 2300 in JvZ.)
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On August 16 2009 20:55 nonduc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2009 20:43 Hinanawi wrote: So Flash is 13-1 in his last 14 TvTs, most of them against A and S-class Terrans. FvT indeed. Only after 2300 ELO level! (JD has > 2300 in JvZ.)
Not that ELO is a perfect indicator of anything, but just for fun:
Jaedong HAD >2300 vZ, he's down to 2234 vZ after his recent disappointing ZvZ sets...only temporary I'm sure. He'll probably get it back up soon.
Flash's TvT on the other hand is at his personal all-time high, 2246. He's creeping up on Stork and Jangbi's all-time vT peaks (Jangbi at #1, with 2258 peak, 2178 currently).
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Reason why Flash shouldn't be on PR + Show Spoiler +You guys lost your mind.. Flash didn't win 3 - 0 so he shouldn't even leave a trace of hair about being recommened on PR or CBNC. And Flash's TvT % isn't high enough to be considered S-Class. He lost Game 1 against Iris.. shame on that kid.. brings disgrace to Starcraft. He should be banned from PR for the next year.
+ Show Spoiler +
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He only beat Iris in Gom. Don't get so excited, it's not like he was on sktt1 which won the GRAND FINALS!
Just kidding, to exclude Flash from next month's power rank would be a travesty.
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I believe JWD will put Hyuk on the PR over Flash because Hyuk "clutched and was an essential player in SKT's Proleague victory". And I'm not kidding, this wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
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Hey look, I found a troll's nest! :D
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On August 17 2009 02:09 Nylan wrote: Hey look, I found a troll's nest! :D LOL
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Sarcasm detector overload!
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Would anyone be interested in a Grease Money script that switched "Power Rank" for "SKT wish rank" when ever you were on TL.net?
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Well, all the sarcasm is well deserved after all those totally ridiculuos comments about Flash play. He just proved last night that he is in a league of his own in TvT; Iris was just playing a different game.
Also,
What I don't like about the recent PRs that they are changing soooo much. How come players who were at PR for sooo long drop just for one month just to appear again in the next rank. Plus lots of players who will only show up here once in their career, like type-b and before that theZerg... I just miss some consistency in the PR though I think in general the recent PRs are pretty good. There is little controversy about the top players placement (after the Zero accident of course). However, the bottom part of PRs leaves sth to be desired...
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If you want consistency, go check the kespa ranking. Power ranking should be more about the player's play during the past month and the bias makes it unique. Otherwise, why bother making a power rank if it looks just like kespa's?
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There is a distinction between consistency and KeSPA. KeSPA had Luxury had #7 last month, no one would've put him in the top 20 under any subjective system.
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On August 17 2009 07:36 ghostWriter wrote: If you want consistency, go check the kespa ranking. Power ranking should be more about the player's play during the past month and the bias makes it unique. Otherwise, why bother making a power rank if it looks just like kespa's?
The problem is that in a moths with very few games the PR is really skewed. That's when, in my opinion, one should use more the consistency criterion. In a months were there are many games one gets lots of data points and the PR is quite accurate.
All I want is a reliable rank where all players are treated equally. I don't care if bias makes it unique. And all I said I would prefer a bit more of consistency, not a rank based completely on consistency. As far as I know PR was about who are the top 10 players right now. 1 month lucky streak doesn't mean that some players deserve to be there.
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I wish there was, in addition to PR, a top ten that was voted for by the whole community. Everyone could pick their monthly top 10 and it would make some kind of composite.
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