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maps favor terran - DELTA QUADRANT - no comment - meta + temple close spots/ close by air - no comment we all saw mc owned by puma 2 games cause of close by air -SLAG PITS - L O L -scrap station - impossible pvt to get more than 2 base ( maybe if the terran is afk? or doesnt make air ) - backwater gulch - what????? what is this map? - xel naga with the epic gold location ! so maybeeee if blizz decides to fix the maps then we can have not only terrans but they dont care since delta and scrap are on ladder since release apparently they like cheese
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On July 14 2011 13:20 Sky0 wrote: or how about Ladder really doesnt mean that much. What really matters is code s, code a, code b, and other tournaments like dreamhack, mlg, ign proleague, NASL. Ladder is not a great source for balance statistics imo. code b is the korean GM ladder but ur very much right, people take the ladder positions to seriously
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On July 14 2011 13:48 bennyaus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 13:31 Skullflower wrote: Replace Fenix with Happy. I don't think Fenix is on the same level as them. Replace someone with results with someone that doesn't have results who has a marine micro video. Yeah, that makes sense. Fucking Happy fanboys on this forum. Wait until he does something at a LAN, he was extremely unimpressive at Dreamhack with Goody-esque macro.
Speaking of Goody-esque macro, I saw Puma had 5 SCVs queued on his cc's against MC on crevasse.
Anyway, Happy is on another level than Fenix. It's like comparing EU to US.
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On July 14 2011 14:52 aFF.TEEN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 13:48 bennyaus wrote:On July 14 2011 13:31 Skullflower wrote: Replace Fenix with Happy. I don't think Fenix is on the same level as them. Replace someone with results with someone that doesn't have results who has a marine micro video. Yeah, that makes sense. Fucking Happy fanboys on this forum. Wait until he does something at a LAN, he was extremely unimpressive at Dreamhack with Goody-esque macro. Speaking of Goody-esque macro, I saw Puma had 5 SCVs queued on his cc's against MC on crevasse. Anyway, Happy is on another level than Fenix. It's like comparing EU to US.
lots of koreans queue scvs, but they don't queue 5 siege tanks.
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On July 14 2011 14:57 JoeSchmoe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 14:52 aFF.TEEN wrote:On July 14 2011 13:48 bennyaus wrote:On July 14 2011 13:31 Skullflower wrote: Replace Fenix with Happy. I don't think Fenix is on the same level as them. Replace someone with results with someone that doesn't have results who has a marine micro video. Yeah, that makes sense. Fucking Happy fanboys on this forum. Wait until he does something at a LAN, he was extremely unimpressive at Dreamhack with Goody-esque macro. Speaking of Goody-esque macro, I saw Puma had 5 SCVs queued on his cc's against MC on crevasse. Anyway, Happy is on another level than Fenix. It's like comparing EU to US. lots of koreans queue scvs, but they don't queue 5 siege tanks. I think I saw NaDa queuing five marines on a rax recently. Granted, he was in a bit of a tight position and might have panicked. (And, of course, marines aren't siege tanks. )
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On July 14 2011 14:57 JoeSchmoe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 14:52 aFF.TEEN wrote:On July 14 2011 13:48 bennyaus wrote:On July 14 2011 13:31 Skullflower wrote: Replace Fenix with Happy. I don't think Fenix is on the same level as them. Replace someone with results with someone that doesn't have results who has a marine micro video. Yeah, that makes sense. Fucking Happy fanboys on this forum. Wait until he does something at a LAN, he was extremely unimpressive at Dreamhack with Goody-esque macro. Speaking of Goody-esque macro, I saw Puma had 5 SCVs queued on his cc's against MC on crevasse. Anyway, Happy is on another level than Fenix. It's like comparing EU to US. lots of koreans queue scvs, but they don't queue 5 siege tanks. ESCGoOdy doesnt do that anymore. I havent seen him queue more than like 3 tanks per factory in a while and I have seen his apm go above 100!
His macro management has gotten better, actually. He 3-2'ed mouzMaNa yesterday even though MaNa played very cleverly against his mech.
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On July 14 2011 14:58 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 14:57 JoeSchmoe wrote:On July 14 2011 14:52 aFF.TEEN wrote:On July 14 2011 13:48 bennyaus wrote:On July 14 2011 13:31 Skullflower wrote: Replace Fenix with Happy. I don't think Fenix is on the same level as them. Replace someone with results with someone that doesn't have results who has a marine micro video. Yeah, that makes sense. Fucking Happy fanboys on this forum. Wait until he does something at a LAN, he was extremely unimpressive at Dreamhack with Goody-esque macro. Speaking of Goody-esque macro, I saw Puma had 5 SCVs queued on his cc's against MC on crevasse. Anyway, Happy is on another level than Fenix. It's like comparing EU to US. lots of koreans queue scvs, but they don't queue 5 siege tanks. I think I saw NaDa queuing five marines on a rax recently. Granted, he was in a bit of a tight position and might have panicked. (And, of course, marines aren't siege tanks. ) It's so wierd. They're supposed to be progamers, but they make so many mistakes.
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On July 14 2011 11:12 Midgetman101 wrote: Korean Terrans are terrifying This. Terran rewards skills like no other.
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In my point of view it appears as if the koreans have a greater understanding of just terran and the least of zerg. There are not as many zergs in the GSL as I'd like and there are alot of terrans.
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Ladder is different than tournament settings.
Close positions a lot of the ladder maps automatically favours the terran vP and vZ. Add it to the fact that terran is EXTREMELY resilient to cheese at the higher(st) levels (see marineking vs Ace, proxy 2gate inbase and MKP goes 1rax CC and holds fairly well).
I'm not going to discuss race balance, but close positions favours terran, and terran is quite cheese-proof, which leads to a strong laddering race against random opponents doing varying strats. One thing is for sure though, T does not suffer from as many BO losses as P and Z do, which also makes them a stronger ladder race.
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Korean ladder (at least, top 20 GM) will always depend on who's actually focusing/putting effort into ladder at that point in time. I think it's a bit silly to try and make any conclusions from it.
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Although it's already been said, there's a few factors that contribute to this:
- Ladder map pool has a lot of small or favorable maps that feature close spawns that are almost insta-wins.
- Crazy, harder-to-stop allins due to the sheer number of units in the terran arsenal
- Terran benefits the most -directly- from superior mechanics (specifically, multitasking.)
- Korean terrans are sick.
If the map pool was all huge maps, I wouldn't be surprised by a more even distribution, and possibly one that is skewed towards toss/zerg on NA/EU
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IMO korean terrans are on another level atm.
But the ladder is kind of flawed aswell considering that there are some pretty bad maps (slag pits, delta quadrant etc.etc.) and that you can still spawn close.
Terran also has the strongest all ins.
But yeah, Korean terrans are fucking disgusting.
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Yes Korean Terrans are really dominating right now, especially in this season's GSL.
They have a wopping 100% win rate vs Terrans!
A monstrously op 50% win rate vs Zerg!
And a insanely good 33% win rate vs Protoss!
Korean Terrans should only be winning 30% of their games max, so imba.
Thier obvious OP ness is also evident in the team league where they have exactly a 50% winrate vs Zerg and Protoss both. Good find OP.
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Seeing how only the Korean server is "imbalanced" for top player races on ladder, maps arent an issue. Remember, all the maps are the same...
Terrans have strong multi-harass abilities, strong early-mid round pushes, and strong all-in pushes.
By definition, this is the Korean servers play-style. It simply just fits them more than NA and EU. NA and EU lean to macro games, where unit composition means more than strategic maneuvers. *Im speaking on behalf of Ladder players, not top-end pro players. Many korean pro gamers do not ladder often (maybe this also plays into the imbalance?).
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Yeah I think I have to agree. I mean you can't quiet compare korean terrans to our terrans in EU/NA. In Korea they are just crazy fast and use the terran dynamic (stim..) very good. They have a perfect stutterstep, very good multitasking (as in they drop you and stutter step both their main- and droparmies.. thats why u c so few (if at all) koreans who go mech, coz mech is too slow for them lol. Anyhow I struggle very much with terran stimdrops and army at the front as well... and I've seen so many good Z and P players losing to drops (i mean drop 6 stim marines run them to the mineral line and you kill at least 12 drones.. if not way more... and Koreans i bet you can do that in different locations simultaneously so yea, no wonder that >15 terrans are in the top 20 in korea
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On July 14 2011 11:26 Elementsu wrote: Terran is a good race for ladder, very resilient to cheese, has a figured out mirror and ladder has these close positions which really favor terran. Seems like Koreans know how to play abusive terran very well.
This pretty much sums it up. It feels like the game really favors terrans. So much metagame-volatility right now.
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On July 14 2011 11:26 Elementsu wrote: Terran is a good race for ladder, very resilient to cheese, has a figured out mirror and ladder has these close positions which really favor terran. Seems like Koreans know how to play abusive terran very well.
I think it's exactly that, especially the Map-problem. Many ppl nowadays think because of Tournament-results, that for example TvZ is kinda balanced and maybe even favours Zerg, but on the Ladder, it's another Story. Take for example Metalopolis, as Zerg, you have a 33% chance to get close-positions, which is almost unwinnable, then, you have close-air, which gives Terran a very strong push-option with Tanks thanks to a rather short rush-distance and the ability to siege the Zergs main whilst pushing towards his natural. So in TvZ, you have 66% chance to get unfavourable positions against Terran.
Also, there are much more Macro-Maps with larger rush-distances and even sorta cheese-proof Maps in Tournaments where you can't get walled in at your ramp - this stuff (or the absence of it so to say) really helps Terran to be very strong on the Ladder, to have the possibility to end a Map in a short amount of time without any drawback if the rush doesn't work.
Playing T on the Ladder must be heavenly. ^^'
I think that theres a correlation between the Mappool and the Korean Terrans, more so than with Terrans from EU and NA, because and this has often been said by various Pro's - Korean Terrans are better at rushing-strat's like 2-rax openers etc.
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Weird. My best guess is that there is a higher skill ceiling for Terran, that there area disproportionately high number of pro Korean Terrans, that Korean Terran playing is a more advanced state of development (which would go along well with the second), or a combination of the above. The NA and EU stats are surprisingly even.
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