MLG Stats - Koreans vs. White Guys - Page 6
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BushidoSnipr
United States910 Posts
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Xavv
Canada168 Posts
It's almost set in stone that a non-korean will not take First place in any of the remaining MLG. I suppose HuK could win and some others as well, But it hasn't happened yet so that isn't much incentive to believe that the current run of Korean domination in MLG won't continue. More motivation for foreign pros to practice longer and harder I guess, But koreans dominate at that too in most cases =\. The games are good, Im glad for that much. | ||
Shinespark
Chile843 Posts
On August 30 2011 02:21 absalom86 wrote: I think Tester was solely responsible for lowering the win percentage for Koreans quite a lot this last MLG. I agree completely. It would've been just as bad as Anaheim if any of the strongest Koreans had attended (Nestea, MVP, etc). One thing that I find some comfort in is this: before Raleigh, I honestly thought that no one from code S could possibly do bad in a foreign tournament. Now I see that the weaker code S players don't destroy foreigners completely. That said, Ganzi didn't lose to foreigners in Anaheim and he's code A, so maybe Trickster is partcularly bad or was jetlagged, etc. | ||
WniO
United States2706 Posts
but like people have said, the skill difference is within reach for the foreigners. | ||
[Agony]x90
United States853 Posts
The reason these hold true is because of two things, cultural upbringing and communication. I personally believe the Korean culture allows for a different mentality when it comes to playing these games. Consider their school system. They are forced to study and go to school for hours on end, 6 days of week. If they can sit still and mentally work at something for school, they'll have the same mentality when it comes to games. The other thing is language. If you are not born in Korea, chances are, you can't speak the language. One of the issues that Idra had in Korea was the lack of communication (or lack of ability to). Even if someone were to become "fluent", there is a very good chance that they will still not be able to communicate at the same exact level as the natives there. This is probably because there is also the element of culture in language as well. The words may come out right, but the meaning may be hidden in meanings that only make sense who grew up in Korea with Koreans. | ||
kilergrunt
United States263 Posts
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SONE
Canada839 Posts
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Alzadar
Canada5005 Posts
On August 30 2011 02:31 WniO wrote: i think kiwikaki had the best showing vs the koreans. not only was he at their level of play, but he always managed to always take games off them and even crushed nada. its just too bad puma had to do the 1/1/1 to close the series. but like people have said, the skill difference is within reach for the foreigners. I didn't catch Kiwi vs Hero or hear anything about it, was it close? He seems to get eliminated in PvP every MLG. | ||
FinalForm
United States450 Posts
I attended Anaheim and watch all the Raleigh games. Ignoring stats for a moment, I had a sense that the level of play and dynamic of the games indicated much improvement for foreigners. Watching Koreans dominate Anaheim was like watching GMs play Masters, but this MLG looked a little bit more competitive overall. As far as the ongoing argument of definition of "foreigner", there's many variables too consider. Don't forget that growing up in Korea may be a significantly influence your gaming ethic and mindset. After all Korea is the mecca of ESPORTS and players like Bomber have been directly exposed to high level Starcraft for a great portion of their lives, more-so than HuK/Naniwa. Still HuK has demonstrated so much submersion into Korean SC2, I feel like he is learning so fast and almost approaching the level of a Korean ex-BW player. Top 3 for MLG Orlando is definitively possible for him. Unless MVP and NesTea happen... | ||
windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
On August 30 2011 02:10 Alzadar wrote: I think Koreans certainly have the edge right now, but the skill gap is not that big. One player that really impressed me this MLG was Kiwikaki, I've always thought of him as second rate in comparison to the likes of HuK and Naniwa, but no longer. With a bit of luck (and some balance patches...), Kiwi's run could have been even stronger. Kiwi was SO CLOSE to beating PuMa and taking 1st in his group, I feel like in game 3 he made the bold but perhaps unwise decision to grab the bull by the horns and pick one of the best maps for 1/1/1 all-in against one of the best players at executing it, almost daring PuMa to do it. He failed to stop it, but it was tight. Now imagine for a second that Kiwi had beat PuMa in g2 or g3. He would be #1 in his group, and be seeded against Coca in the upper bracket. If he wins there, bam, a foreigner in the top 4. If he loses, no biggie, he drops down and plays NaDa, starting with a 2-0 extended series advantage. He can probably win that, meaning foreigner in top 5 and then face DRG for top 4. Instead of course he got 2nd in his group, is seeded against Hero and loses, finishing 10th overall. I'm just trying to show how with just a little bit of extra luck/skill/magic many players could have fared much better, MLG isn't the most forgiving tournament. The thing is that the skill gap has only grown since launch.At launch foreigners had pretty good chances against koreans. All after that has been a step back for foreigners | ||
TheRealPaciFist
United States1049 Posts
On August 30 2011 01:14 CptGrackSparrow wrote: Select is Korean, but not practicing in Korea - Moved to foreigner using my criteria. HuK is American/Canadian - Moved to foreigner using my criteria. They must be BOTH of korean descent and living / practicing in korea. That's... debatable... Huk not speaking the language might be enough of a barrier to classify him as a foreigner, but I think practicing in the oGs teamhouse and on the Korean ladder is more than enough to qualify him as Korean. He's definitely been in Korea long enough. In this latest MLG, really the highest placing foreigner was Sjow. (I don't know where Puma and Hero have been practicing, but their recent enough recruits by EG and Liquid that I think they'll still count as Korean for a while) Also, I completely disagree that your stats for MLG shows any sign of "progress." All it shows is that the Koreans invited to Raleigh weren't as high caliber as previous invites, and yet they still dominated the show. | ||
Ksi
357 Posts
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[N3O]r3d33m3r
Germany673 Posts
On August 30 2011 02:26 positron. wrote: I still remember the early days in beta everybody was labeling him the best player/Protoss in the world. yup me too. was a big fan of him, i really thought there can't be anyone much better than him xD | ||
puzzl
United States263 Posts
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-dcLookAtThis-
United States42 Posts
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positron.
634 Posts
On August 30 2011 02:49 Dc_Starcraft wrote: Honestly if idra can get out of the slump that he is he could place top 3 but he just makes stupid choices in game which cost him the game. Also I feel that HuK and Nani could be up there too esp with HuK being in GSL. Everyone just needs to play as hard as they do to get ready for the next MLG. Yea I saw two games of Idra where he overmade mutas and undermade banelings and lost twice the same way. The gap between Koreans and foreigners is only going to widen. They practice more and as long as they are improving faster, foreigners will never catch up. | ||
siewkeat
282 Posts
On August 30 2011 02:30 Shinespark wrote: I agree completely. It would've been just as bad as Anaheim if any of the strongest Koreans had attended (Nestea, MVP, etc). One thing that I find some comfort in is this: before Raleigh, I honestly thought that no one from code S could possibly do bad in a foreign tournament. Now I see that the weaker code S players don't destroy foreigners completely. That said, Ganzi didn't lose to foreigners in Anaheim and he's code A, so maybe Trickster is partcularly bad or was jetlagged, etc. it is amazing Trickster stays in Code S for so long for how he has been playing. he is going down for sure as I do not see he stand a chance in the heavily stacked up&down | ||
KingPaddy
1053 Posts
On August 30 2011 02:06 jj33 wrote: damnit again posted just your quote. sorry about that. here is my post and things like this open to discussion. His criteria is a double standard. that's the point. HIS definition is wrong. pure and simple and you only seem to want to agree with him to skew the stats to help foreigners look better. If we go by anybody's random definition without any open discussion, then I can make the most random stupid criteria and it's ok, because afterall it's MY own criteria. =] I don't really think the Korean stats look better this way. If you go by nationality, you would for example have to include the 0-10 performance of Moonan in groupstage. If you go by the "trained in Korea"-stuff, you would have to include Jinro, who hasn't performed that well either. Or maybe even Idra and Haypro were included, if you would go that far back, at least they would have been included some months ago.. Going by this, I believe his criterias rather improve the Korean stats. | ||
Technique
Netherlands1542 Posts
Else i don't see it happening. | ||
jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
huk line = 7th huk 7th forever! gogogo! | ||
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