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SaSes 99 cents about the game - Page 5
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ImNightmare
1575 Posts
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shogeki
Canada75 Posts
I agree with his general opinion of the PvZ matchup. Zerg has the initiative and scouting advantage at all points in this matchup, and Protoss can not rely on probe scouting after the first queen is out. It's absolutely imperative that Protoss reacts properly if Zerg chooses to build units early on and sometimes this just isn't possible if scouting is denied properly. | ||
Doubting
Canada981 Posts
On October 19 2012 12:30 Whatson wrote: "I don't think Protoss is OP. I actually think Zerg is more OP" - DRG source? Anyway results speak for themselves and right now Protoss has the upper edge over Zerg (in Korea) my suggestion is to fix the sentry somehow and then hopefully the Infestor. Or just remove both units and see which was more important ^^ | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13372 Posts
On October 19 2012 11:55 blade55555 wrote: I like how you seem to think PvZ problems are throughout the whole game when in fact the only time protoss is at a disadvantage in today's pvz now of days is the late game with proper bl/corr/infestor control. Early - mid game protoss is incredibly powerful. Also nerfing the infestor would be fine but you would HAVE to buff zerg to compensate for the nerf. You have to realize the infestor is the only reason zergs can win games zvp and zvt. If you nerfed the infestor you would have to compensate somewhere else otherwise zergs would never win zvp/zvt. I know how frustrating the infestor is (Force fields just as frustrating fyi) but it's also the only unit that makes zerg not underpowered and allows us to win games. In general I would like infestor/sentry changed so they can't stop units and both races rebalanced so they don't have to rely on spells that stop the opponent from microing. It's dumb, it's boring and I never think of it as exciting to watch. I also hope at least for HOTS that blizzard works on late game and makes it so that zerg doesn't have to go bl/corr/infestor to win and can make it more exciting as currently and will since sc2 release as far as I am concerned zvp has been boring as watching paint dry. Remove FF and fungal as they both are now. Rebalance stuff. Remove mothership is ok I like the idea of the mothership core though so far. Its hard to say. But I think with the mothership gone a more arbiter-esque oracle is cool. Not sure, but I do agree that lategame Zerg is kind of crazy. Between infested terrans, corrupters, fungal and broodlords its very hard to kill Zerg lategame. Air units don't do that great vs Zerg and it sucks. | ||
ImNightmare
1575 Posts
On October 19 2012 12:34 Whatson wrote: SeeKeR's interview, IDK if he uses Google translate or not, you should ask him. may I have a link to the interview please? I would like to personally verify the contents | ||
Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
On October 19 2012 11:48 Mazer wrote: That's too many nerfs to zerg and buffs to protoss to claim you're objective tbh. Pretty much. Sase needs to focus his feedback into something more concrete rather than NERF EVERYTHING. Implementing all those changes would make things far worse than it currently is. | ||
ImNightmare
1575 Posts
On October 19 2012 12:35 Tachion wrote: Pretty much. Sase needs to focus his feedback into something more concrete rather than NERF EVERYTHING. Implementing all those changes would make things far worse than it currently is. I for one and up for all this nerfs just so toss players can see for themselves how absurd they want the game to be without a zerg winning even once and then feeling good about it when they win to call it balance. | ||
Whatson
United States5354 Posts
On October 19 2012 12:35 ImNightmare wrote: may I have a link to the interview please? I would like to personally verify the contents http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=375855 | ||
Supercilium
Sweden308 Posts
I am not saying all these things are needed. For infestor probably one or two. | ||
Whatson
United States5354 Posts
On October 19 2012 12:35 Doubting wrote: source? Anyway results speak for themselves and right now Protoss has the upper edge over Zerg (in Korea) my suggestion is to fix the sentry somehow and then hopefully the Infestor. Or just remove both units and see which was more important ^^ http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=375855 | ||
RMonkeyF
46 Posts
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On October 19 2012 12:35 ZeromuS wrote: Remove FF and fungal as they both are now. Rebalance stuff. Remove mothership is ok I like the idea of the mothership core though so far. Its hard to say. But I think with the mothership gone a more arbiter-esque oracle is cool. Not sure, but I do agree that lategame Zerg is kind of crazy. Between infested terrans, corrupters, fungal and broodlords its very hard to kill Zerg lategame. Air units don't do that great vs Zerg and it sucks. grats you just made Terran the best race in the game | ||
ImNightmare
1575 Posts
On October 19 2012 12:38 Whatson wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=375855 중간에 앓는 소리를 하기는 했었다(웃음). 하지만 맵만 정상적이라면 사기라고 생각은 하지 않았다. 오히려 저그가 더 사기라는 생각을 했었다. That doesn't mean zerg is more op. More like if the map is well done, zerg's have an advantage over toss. Though its debatable. | ||
shockaslim
United States1102 Posts
On October 19 2012 11:55 blade55555 wrote: I like how you seem to think PvZ problems are throughout the whole game when in fact the only time protoss is at a disadvantage in today's pvz now of days is the late game with proper bl/corr/infestor control. Early - mid game protoss is incredibly powerful. Also nerfing the infestor would be fine but you would HAVE to buff zerg to compensate for the nerf. You have to realize the infestor is the only reason zergs can win games zvp and zvt. If you nerfed the infestor you would have to compensate somewhere else otherwise zergs would never win zvp/zvt. I know how frustrating the infestor is (Force fields just as frustrating fyi) but it's also the only unit that makes zerg not underpowered and allows us to win games. In general I would like infestor/sentry changed so they can't stop units and both races rebalanced so they don't have to rely on spells that stop the opponent from microing. It's dumb, it's boring and I never think of it as exciting to watch. I also hope at least for HOTS that blizzard works on late game and makes it so that zerg doesn't have to go bl/corr/infestor to win and can make it more exciting as currently and will since sc2 release as far as I am concerned zvp has been boring as watching paint dry. I personally feel that Zerg players have been using Infestors as a crutch for far too long and there is a lot of stagnated play because they are so good. Of course Infestors should still be an option, but in their current state there are ZERO drawbacks to having them as they fill all roles. DPS, harrass, support, AA, base race/trade......they outshine in ever category. Sentries are a different beast that are a bit more complex for me. Protoss actually needs Sentries for the early-mid game or they just flat out die to something silly. But, in their current state they are WAY too powerful in Gateway pushes. | ||
sitromit
7051 Posts
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
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ImNightmare
1575 Posts
On October 19 2012 12:40 sitromit wrote: Protoss pro notorious for his bad PvZ makes an opinion post demanding massive nerfs... What's next, a thread from JYP about how to nerf Terran? lol, recently its been all toss complaining though. I wonder what happened in aiur. | ||
Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On October 19 2012 12:40 shockaslim wrote: I personally feel that Zerg players have been using Infestors as a crutch for far too long and there is a lot of stagnated play because they are so good. Of course Infestors should still be an option, but in their current state there are ZERO drawbacks to having them as they fill all roles. DPS, harrass, support, AA, base race/trade......they outshine in ever category. Sentries are a different beast that are a bit more complex for me. Protoss actually needs Sentries for the early-mid game or they just flat out die to something silly. But, in their current state they are WAY too powerful in Gateway pushes. everything and infester can do Templars can also do with the benefot of making archons taht can kill 20 broodlords at once in the right situation | ||
-TesteR-
Canada1165 Posts
On October 19 2012 12:39 Whatson wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=375855 Actually posting a source and not just a random claim!? Madness! but yeah, some of SaSe's changes could very well work if only given the chance. | ||
Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
On October 19 2012 12:38 Supercilium wrote: SaSe is giving suggestions to which changes can be made to improve the game/balance, he even say himself that implementing all his changes is bad. Then pick a few and really concentrate on fleshing those out. At the moment it's just throwing darts at too many things to make sense. | ||
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