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On October 25 2011 16:25 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Threads like this make me wonder if Blizzard put much thought into the new unit designs :/. Some units/mechanics are either really bad, or really powerful. Yeah the reaver was kinda OP so taxing for T players.
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On October 25 2011 16:31 sleepingdog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 16:27 Cyro wrote: Probably imbalanced but blizzard wouldnt allow anything to get onto ladder if it could easily kill people like that this made me smile a bit in all honesty, dropping one shredder near each entrance to the back of the mineral line and then dropping marines in the middle to pew-pew workers.....gives me nightmares already; no way this will go live if it works as shown in the video
I was referring to the interview with dustin where he stated pretty much that they didnt want the bronze/plat guys to get killed by stuff because of their inadequacy
Gotta play more brood war mass reaver drops...
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should be a building not a unit
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On October 25 2011 16:35 Eppa! wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 16:25 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Threads like this make me wonder if Blizzard put much thought into the new unit designs :/. Some units/mechanics are either really bad, or really powerful. Yeah the reaver was kinda OP.
Reaver was fine, but if you was lower apm than your opponent and/or reacted badly and/or didnt scout it could do a lot of harass based damage.
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I did not intend this as a balance whine thread. But from looking at the videos of the Shredder my impression is that it will be used in a lot of different ways. E.g. you can slow-push shredders on one front while pushing with your main army on the other to deny counter attacks, you can drop them in mineral lines and on enemy ramps, they can be used istead of missile turrets for muta defence, etc. I'm sure thare are more applications but I think that it is one of those units that will make a huge difference if they are released in the way they look in the videos (as I said I haven't really tried them myself). HotS will bring interesting times.
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I kind of want to see the shredder replace Hunter-Seeker missile. Make it into a 125 energy PDD reskin that zaps enemy units for X damage instead of zapping projectiles.
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On October 25 2011 16:36 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 16:35 Eppa! wrote:On October 25 2011 16:25 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Threads like this make me wonder if Blizzard put much thought into the new unit designs :/. Some units/mechanics are either really bad, or really powerful. Yeah the reaver was kinda OP. Reaver was fine, but if you was lower apm than your opponent and/or reacted badly and/or didnt scout it could do a lot of harass based damage. you just described the shredder lol
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This is what happens when game design goes like this: "Let's make something like spider mines, but not spider mines."
or in the case of hellion: "Let's make a vulture, but not the vulture"
You get shitty gameplay. Vultures were great in small numbers for harrasment, in large numbers for controling the map with mines. Hellions are countered by lings(the unit they're supposed to best against) perfectly if you have less than 4 of them. And then if you get 20 of them, a million lings can't kill you, and the terran player suddenly has the one-hit-wonder option with his potential to kill all drones in a few seconds...
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8 seconds is a bit too long for it to be viable.
A Shredder drop requires the Shredder to deploy for 8seconds after being dropped before it does its thing, and most likely you are going to expect to lose the unit.
Now compare this to a baneling drop that can wipe out 80% of your probes in a mining base the very instant the unit is dropped from the Overlord.
If Shredder drops are unforgiving then what does that make Baneling drops? Hell, even Templar drops have a much shorter time period where they need to get into position and cast the Storms to do damage and look how underused they are.
In 8seconds a Marine drop could take out all the drones at a mining base and possibly bring the hatchery to near death
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If the T drop 12 Shredders at once with 3 medivacs (assuming 4 Shredders fit into one medivac), then the opponent could be in real trouble. Can't take out 8 all at once. 4 are likely to get set up, and the overlapping DPS will.... possibly eat Ultras for breakfast.
Man, the possibilities are giving me goosebumps. But more importantly, Terran mech synergy is back! I can't help it, I must say it again and again in almost every post I make since Blizzcon.
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On October 25 2011 16:43 Setev wrote: If the T drop 8 Shredders at once with 2 medivacs, then the opponent could be in real trouble. Can't take out 8 all at once. 6 are likely to get set up, and the overlapping DPS will.... possibly eat Ultras for breakfast.
Man, the possibilities are giving me goosebumps. But more importantly, Terran mech synergy is back! I can't help it, I must say it again and again in almost every post I make since Blizzcon.
Shredder damage doesn't stack, as far as I'm aware. It's like Psi Storm in that regard.
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On October 25 2011 16:44 acker wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 16:43 Setev wrote: If the T drop 8 Shredders at once with 2 medivacs, then the opponent could be in real trouble. Can't take out 8 all at once. 6 are likely to get set up, and the overlapping DPS will.... possibly eat Ultras for breakfast.
Man, the possibilities are giving me goosebumps. But more importantly, Terran mech synergy is back! I can't help it, I must say it again and again in almost every post I make since Blizzcon. Shredder damage doesn't stack, as far as I'm aware. It's like Psi Storm in that regard.
Really, bummer. I knew that was too good to be true. But still, Terran mech synergy... haha.
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On October 25 2011 16:38 PredY wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 16:36 Cyro wrote:On October 25 2011 16:35 Eppa! wrote:On October 25 2011 16:25 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Threads like this make me wonder if Blizzard put much thought into the new unit designs :/. Some units/mechanics are either really bad, or really powerful. Yeah the reaver was kinda OP. Reaver was fine, but if you was lower apm than your opponent and/or reacted badly and/or didnt scout it could do a lot of harass based damage. you just described the shredder lol
Reavers could be killed if you brought your whole army back to your base ^^
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On October 25 2011 16:43 Setev wrote: If the T drop 12 Shredders at once with 3 medivacs (assuming 4 Shredders fit into one medivac), then the opponent could be in real trouble. Can't take out 8 all at once. 4 are likely to get set up, and the overlapping DPS will.... possibly eat Ultras for breakfast.
Man, the possibilities are giving me goosebumps. But more importantly, Terran mech synergy is back! I can't help it, I must say it again and again in almost every post I make since Blizzcon.
We don't know how many shredders can be carried by dropships, it could be 1-2 max each.
Which brings up a new question for me: can overlords load up spinecrawlers?
And there's certainly many units/spells that seems OP/imba/broken, even in Brood War. You know how much damage psi storm does in that game (course it was harder to cast storms however).
I think there will have to be some changes to the shredder. I really do like it.
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On October 25 2011 16:42 Dommk wrote: 8 seconds is a bit too long for it to be viable.
A Shredder drop requires the Shredder to deploy for 8seconds after being dropped before it does its thing, and most likely you are going to expect to lose the unit.
Now compare this to a baneling drop that can wipe out 80% of your probes in a mining base the very instant the unit is dropped from the Overlord.
If Shredder drops are unforgiving them what does that make Baneling drops? Hell, even Templar drops have a much shorter time period where they need to get into position and cast the Storms to do damage and look how underused they are.
In 8seconds a Marine drop could take out all the drones at a mining base and possibly bring the hatchery to near death
True, but the Shredder will stay in place. Even if you pull all your drones in time the Shredder will stay in place. You need to kill it somehow. And you will take losses. Even roaches will die or be wounded badly. The Storms loose effect and most of the times if workers are pulled in time banelings will do some damage but not too much.
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I personally think they should remove it. Terrans have the best static defense in the game already. Turrets, bunkers, PFs, tanks when sieged and sensor towers.
Dont see it as a need or a fix for the terrans.
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Does anyone know if creep prevents it from getting into attack mode?
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Hmmm. I know you can't have units in range of the shredder to activate, but I wonder if you can have units in bunkers? If so, can't wait to try out a "Shredder bunker rush" on Zerg... tehehhehe
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balance suggestion - shredders are unable to be loaded into medivacs?
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United Kingdom20158 Posts
On October 25 2011 16:42 Dommk wrote: 8 seconds is a bit too long for it to be viable.
A Shredder drop requires the Shredder to deploy for 8seconds after being dropped before it does its thing, and most likely you are going to expect to lose the unit.
Now compare this to a baneling drop that can wipe out 80% of your probes in a mining base the very instant the unit is dropped from the Overlord.
If Shredder drops are unforgiving them what does that make Baneling drops? Hell, even Templar drops have a much shorter time period where they need to get into position and cast the Storms to do damage and look how underused they are.
In 8seconds a Marine drop could take out all the drones at a mining base and possibly bring the hatchery to near death
The problem with shredder drops in my eyes is the siege time and being unable to kill it... 5.76 seconds real time i beleive it was (not 1000% sure thats what i calculated it to be) but if it sieges up, thats it.
Because of its range, you literally cannot kill it with lings/drones, you will loose MASSIVE amounts of roach health trying to hit it, and if you brought back 50 mutas and one shot it, you would loose 40% hp on every muta for one shredder.
You literally cant kill 1 sieged shredder before lair unless you damage a lot of roaches (which die in some ~4 seconds real time, aoe) and if you didnt have those roaches ready before the drop happened you just cant mine from your main until they pop ~30 seconds later, which isnt THAT bad i guess, but i think the shredder is too hard to deal with to be balanced if it does get sieged.
Through intensive micro, reavers could kill small armies of dragoons with shuttle speed, but that required a lot of skill and apm, whereas the shredder is just d click siege and then go back to your base camera hoping for the best.
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