All-kill format is retarded and doesn't reward depth in a team as much as the Proleague format. Proleague format will produce better games, and allow players to present better and deeper builds/strategies. It will also allow for more consistently from teams -- you're going to see less volatility from teams, since the all-kill format relies heavily on momentum and luck on the part of the player.
It's nice to see every now and then. When Proleague did a round of the all-kill format in the middle of Proleague, it was awesome. It was a nice break, though, is all it was. The standard PL format is superior.
On February 18 2012 07:15 nooboon wrote: The main problem with winners league I have is how a single player can just absolutely dominate it. For example, in the most recent IPL TAC; Hasuobs had just tied up the game and had put Mouz put ahead by 1 game, then oGs sends out Vines who proceeded to just win the whole thing himself.
That and pretty much every other team league was an all-kill format.
That's why I love the all kill format so much. Makes it much more exciting and I love seeing players go on a roll and have the other team try to stop them. I don't like seeing one and done pre determined matchups.
Yes, pro league format rewards team depth as you can't rely on one ace, but it's also a lot more boring to watch. I want to see nerds get crushed and have someone try to stop them by beating them, not having them taken out cause the format doesn't allow them to play more.
On February 18 2012 07:38 MCDayC wrote: I'm not fussy at all about formats, though I do have to question people who are praising the current BW PL format. Single games, Bo5, with no ace match is completely terrible. The old Bo7 with an ace was great, but the new one seems purely designed to nerf Flash (not like it worked!) but makes the 5th game dull as the best players are most often used earlier. I think All-kill is most exciting, but the EGMC (with Bo3's between each player) lets the best team win, so they're both great!
I can't speak for anyone else but i prefer the current proleague format cause it puts emphasis on the team rather then 1 player. There was a time when MVP only got as high thanks to DRG who basically solo'd his way to victory. I rather see that during the solo league and more focus on the team during a team league.
On February 18 2012 07:52 PH wrote: Poll is depressing.
All-kill format is retarded and doesn't reward depth in a team as much as the Proleague format. Proleague format will produce better games, and allow players to present better and deeper builds/strategies. It will also allow for more consistently from teams -- you're going to see less volatility from teams, since the all-kill format relies heavily on momentum and luck on the part of the player.
It's nice to see every now and then. When Proleague did a round of the all-kill format in the middle of Proleague, it was awesome. It was a nice break, though, is all it was. The standard PL format is superior.
as the perspective of someone who did not follow the bw scene in korea i want to see blood. i want players who can kill teams to be pointed out and put into the spotlight.
i´ve read in the "elephant in the room" thread and read that there were players training weeks, on one map, this one strategy just to snipe players like flash or jd. and those so called bonjwas defeated them all. that shit made me feel excited just thinking about it. we´ve yet to see that in sc2, and besides nostalgic sadness and pointing out sc2 is for idiots, i feel like this is the only format where players truly can show they are superior. they can beat a hole team. thats a statement this player makes. and besides winning a major tournament where else can he achieve something like this?
sure you can say he is lucky or others are in a bad shape. but you dont get lucky on this high level as far as luck is understood by normal people like me. and the shape and "fitness" of a player is in my opinion a skill that is part of the highes level. i cant go to work overslept either. well id do but.. aynway..
as a spectator i want to see blood, tears and teams getting demolished by one player. this is what it makes watching games exciting for me. i dont think about "the growth" of esports or anything. i also dont care about learing aaaal that much because id rather watch replays if i want to.
so for me the format is not retarded. it´s exciting. otherwise its just the same thing as single elimiation to some point.
Hm i can't really answer on this question because i like pretty much all formats. It's pretty nice to play every type of format as a player and get used to it.
On February 18 2012 07:38 MCDayC wrote: I'm not fussy at all about formats, though I do have to question people who are praising the current BW PL format. Single games, Bo5, with no ace match is completely terrible. The old Bo7 with an ace was great, but the new one seems purely designed to nerf Flash (not like it worked!) but makes the 5th game dull as the best players are most often used earlier. I think All-kill is most exciting, but the EGMC (with Bo3's between each player) lets the best team win, so they're both great!
Pretty sure most of us who says PL says the old system with Bo7. The current proleague format is pretty terrible
I would like to see more Bo7 with ace match in sc2, theres far to much emphasize on teams with a few solid players than a solid roster in all kill formats
I've always liked winners league format over PL format so I quite enjoy the all-kill possibilities in GSTL. It's nonsense to claim we don't see a deep roster with winners league especially when so many unknowns first made their names there. DRG, MMA, alive, Sage, Finale, etc. I doubt the hype around DRG would have been as high if he'd just won his single match every time MVP was up. I might have a little bitter aftertaste for the current PL format though, I really don't enjoy it like I used to.
Let me start off by saying, I do not like NASTL's format, but I love EGMCSL format. I feel like if you use a format like that, it cannot be bo1. A combination of bad maps, cheese, and some other factors make the bo1 really bad imo. Having them be bo3 really improves that.
I also like the GSTL/IPLTAC format. Its exciting, who doesn't love all-kills? But at the same time, your team can be horrible with 1 great player and get by. Kinda takes away from the team feeling.
Ultimately I am glad we have both as it keeps it fresh for viewer.
On February 18 2012 07:38 MCDayC wrote: I'm not fussy at all about formats, though I do have to question people who are praising the current BW PL format. Single games, Bo5, with no ace match is completely terrible. The old Bo7 with an ace was great, but the new one seems purely designed to nerf Flash (not like it worked!) but makes the 5th game dull as the best players are most often used earlier. I think All-kill is most exciting, but the EGMC (with Bo3's between each player) lets the best team win, so they're both great!
Pretty sure most of us who says PL says the old system with Bo7. The current proleague format is pretty terrible
I would like to see more Bo7 with ace match in sc2, theres far to much emphasize on teams with a few solid players than a solid roster in all kill formats
As would I. I also like having rounds and just more games period. The current BW PL is a joke to what it was in years past. The All-Kill format I can live with for 1 round, but not when the entire league is built around it and bring back the REAL ACE match.
People are overstating the effect one player has on the all-kill format. How many times do we see players in individual leagues drop one game of a Bo5/7, even when they are clearly the better player? One misclick and you're out, you can't finish them off next game like you can when you drop a game up 2-0. It's really really hard to be so perfect that you win every single game. Factor in snipers, and it's even harder.
Besides which, shouldn't the best players influence outcomes more? I Want a match between, say, IM and Prime to come down to MarineKing vs MvP, not Terious vs Yoda.
On February 18 2012 08:16 Boiler Bandsman wrote: People are overstating the effect one player has on the all-kill format. How many times do we see players in individual leagues drop one game of a Bo5/7, even when they are clearly the better player? One misclick and you're out, you can't finish them off next game like you can when you drop a game up 2-0. It's really really hard to be so perfect that you win every single game. Factor in snipers, and it's even harder.
Besides which, shouldn't the best players influence outcomes more? I Want a match between, say, IM and Prime to come down to MarineKing vs MvP, not Terious vs Yoda.
It happened before. DRG pretty much solo'd team MVP to 2nd place (almost victory) during one of the earlier seasons. (yes I know the team has a lot of good players now, but just to prove a point)
On February 18 2012 08:16 Boiler Bandsman wrote: People are overstating the effect one player has on the all-kill format. How many times do we see players in individual leagues drop one game of a Bo5/7, even when they are clearly the better player? One misclick and you're out, you can't finish them off next game like you can when you drop a game up 2-0. It's really really hard to be so perfect that you win every single game. Factor in snipers, and it's even harder.
Besides which, shouldn't the best players influence outcomes more? I Want a match between, say, IM and Prime to come down to MarineKing vs MvP, not Terious vs Yoda.
MvP was a pretty terrible team when they got 2. place in one of the first GSTL, if DRG dint carry them really hard they wouldnt have reached 2. place
On February 18 2012 08:12 xBillehx wrote: I've always liked winners league format over PL format so I quite enjoy the all-kill possibilities in GSTL. It's nonsense to claim we don't see a deep roster with winners league especially when so many unknowns first made their names there. DRG, MMA, alive, Sage, Finale, etc. I doubt the hype around DRG would have been as high if he'd just won his single match every time MVP was up. I might have a little bitter aftertaste for the current PL format though, I really don't enjoy it like I used to.
I agree, although there are benefits to the current PL format, currently I feel because the SC2 scene is still young and teams are full of talent that hasn't been put into the spotlight, such as Finale this season and DRG, MMA, Creator in previous seasons the current system in the GSTL allows for players to create storylines and hype for themselves which benefits the scene more in my opinion..
Ok I agree with old pro league best of 7 format with ace match, with players picked on the spot not like nastl, it provides a better viewing of the teams strength not like dongraegu all kill, but still the all kill format is entertaining