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On January 02 2013 22:03 MilesTeg wrote: With a community like that Starcraft really doesn't need haters... Constructive criticism is good, brainless bashing isn't.
The game is definitely going in the right direction, it just requires fine tuning at this point. Some things (reapers, mines...) just don't work well but they will be fixed. The new units add a ton of flexibility and stability to Zerg and Protoss, and a lot of potential for aggression and harassment. As an aggressive Zerg who's not a big fan of the deathball it's like they made the game for me.
The game is actually so much better than WoL, I just can't play that game anymore (despite the obvious problems that will be fixed by release - not to mention the ridiculous lag). And then you have the improved matchmaking, which will make a huge difference to me... I'm actually really happy with HotS so far.
Lets try to analyze whether HOTS actually is a step in the right direction:
Steps forward - Speed Medi - Mothercore - Oracle -Infested terrans
Steps the wrong way -Void Ray (unless Blizzard can come up with a creative idea like Onegoal does - I think they would be better of just removing the unit). - Reaper (should be make a viable mid/late game harass unit like the mutalisk instead of the current early tvt shit it is now). - Raven (seeker missile is much more boring right now and opponent can't really remicro against it as one could in WOL). - Swarm hosts (most boring unit in the game).
Neither good nor bad - Battle hellions. - Thors -Mines (decent vs zerg - but doesn't work the proper way vs toss and terran). - Tempest (honestly kinda boring). - Viper( cloud is an okay ability, however abduct is badly designed). - Fungal growth
Missed oppurtunities that we unfortunately won't see in HOTS -Reworking the economy (reducing the efficiency on 1-2-3 bases). - Removing mules/plantaries as they make the game more boring, and compensation terrans with slighly cheper units mineral wise. -Making mines a viable replacent for plantaries (along with a couple of tanks). Right now the current 2 food version doesn't work. There are however, various different approaches one could take to make them better designed; Onegoal's mines are better. Bw mines are beter. Another kind of mines could be mines which have higher DPS but the opponent can remicro against the mines by moving units in a different location after they get activated. -Corrupters are still boring. -Making tank-mech viable tvp (lots of different approaches they could have experimented with - unfortunately they haven't even tried making this work). - Making reapers a viable mid/late game unit (it is actually extremely fun to play around - shouldn't just be a gimmicky unit). - Making Raven's turrets better. -Redesigning the collosus. - Redesigning snipe/emp as the opponent bacially can't remicro against it. - Making the immortal more interesting. - Redesign warpgate tech (in a similar fashion as onegoal does it - though shouldn't have highest priority). - Making protoss less reliable on forcefields. -Differentiering yamato cannons from seeker missile (though I think we will likely see a change in one of the next patches). -Making fungal slow. -Roaches are kinda boring as well (somewhat similar to maurauders - though redesigning both units should have a low priority as they work okay'ish at abusing the opponent's lack of mobility which makes for interesting games).
Honestly I have a difficult time seeing how people can be satifisied with how Hots looks currently. I played around 300 games of it (as a terran) and I found speed medis very interesting, but kinda lost motivation right now. Too much missed potential, and overall the game isn't noticeable better than Wol.
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On January 02 2013 18:15 blade55555 wrote:I'm getting it day 1 no matter what. I think it's an improvement for sure, but there are still some deathball issues. zvp is swapped, zerg now is being aggressive all game while not letting protoss get the killer composition of colossi(or templar, possibly both)/tempest/voidray. That composition is unkillable if they get it much like bl/corr/infestor is unkillable in wol. In general I think zvp will be a little more exciting then it is in wol, but still fairly dull. zvt is going to be almost exactly like wol with some widow mine usage, but the new medivacs if they stay the way they are now are going to be insanely good. With healing upgrade I am very interested to see how zergs will deal with the drops when their healing a lot faster. zvz is muta dominated atm which is fine by me . I think hots will be better and worth it but if blizzard doesn't update the map pool with more tournament maps it's going to be a joke and only get worse as time goes on.
I've posted directly to blizzard about the tempest/templar god composition problem in PvT and PvZ. They nerfed it by giving it two different attacks so it didn't kill massive ground units, but it's still too godly.
The tempest imo was a poorly thought out unit, just like the warhound. You can't simply increase the range of stuff by that much and expect it to work out. PvZ is like you said, there is no counter to late game mass tempest. In PvT it's the same deal, even if you're going bio, eventually mass tempest + storm + collosus with whatever else wrecks face.
The thing I don't like about HOTS right now is there's no incentive to buy it if you play Terran. Mech gets worse in HOTS because of new unit additions to the other races and Terran only gets a half-assed 2 supply inefficient widow mine that is repeatedly nerfed after casuals complain.
And if you play bio...well it's basically like you're playing wings of liberty vs upgraded Protoss/Zerg players.
Oh, and they made the raven worse because, hell, why not @_@. Revert raven to wings of liberty raven and do this -> Corvid reactor increases raven start energy to 100 - blizzard, please stop being stubborn.
Another thing is from everything i've experienced and seen so far, i don't see a design philosophy of "breaking up the deathball." Every new unit just adds to make deathballs even stronger...and the unit like the widow mine ironically makes Terran's deathball weaker the longer the game goes.
There's still a long way to go before Terrans will want to purchase this game, and there's not much time left if they are sticking to their EA-esque "it must be done by this time" time table.
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On January 02 2013 22:21 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2013 22:03 MilesTeg wrote: With a community like that Starcraft really doesn't need haters... Constructive criticism is good, brainless bashing isn't.
The game is definitely going in the right direction, it just requires fine tuning at this point. Some things (reapers, mines...) just don't work well but they will be fixed. The new units add a ton of flexibility and stability to Zerg and Protoss, and a lot of potential for aggression and harassment. As an aggressive Zerg who's not a big fan of the deathball it's like they made the game for me.
The game is actually so much better than WoL, I just can't play that game anymore (despite the obvious problems that will be fixed by release - not to mention the ridiculous lag). And then you have the improved matchmaking, which will make a huge difference to me... I'm actually really happy with HotS so far. Lets try to analyze whether HOTS actually is a step in the right direction: Steps forward- Speed Medi - Mothercore - Oracle -Infested terrans Steps the wrong way-Void Ray (unless Blizzard can come up with a creative idea like Onegoal does - I think they would be better of just removing the unit). - Reaper (should be make a viable mid/late game harass unit like the mutalisk instead of the current early tvt shit it is now). - Raven (seeker missile is much more boring right now and opponent can't really remicro against it as one could in WOL). - Swarm hosts (most boring unit in the game). Neither good nor bad- Battle hellions. - Thors -Mines (decent vs zerg - but doesn't work the proper way vs toss and terran). - Tempest (honestly kinda boring). - Viper( cloud is an okay ability, however abduct is badly designed). - Fungal growth Missed oppurtunities that we unfortunately won't see in HOTS-Reworking the economy (reducing the efficiency on 1-2-3 bases). - Removing mules/plantaries as they make the game more boring, and compensation terrans with slighly cheper units mineral wise. -Making mines a viable replacent for plantaries (along with a couple of tanks). Right now the current 2 food version doesn't work. There are however, various different approaches one could take to make them better designed; Onegoal's mines are better. Bw mines are beter. Another kind of mines could be mines which have higher DPS but the opponent can remicro against the mines by moving units in a different location after they get activated. -Corrupters are still boring. -Making tank-mech viable tvp (lots of different approaches they could have experimented with - unfortunately they haven't even tried making this work). - Making reapers a viable mid/late game unit (it is actually extremely fun to play around - shouldn't just be a gimmicky unit). - Making Raven's turrets better. -Redesigning the collosus. - Redesigning snipe/emp as the opponent bacially can't remicro against it. - Making the immortal more interesting. - Redesign warpgate tech (in a similar fashion as onegoal does it - though shouldn't have highest priority). - Making protoss less reliable on forcefields. -Differentiering yamato cannons from seeker missile (though I think we will likely see a change in one of the next patches). -Making fungal slow. Honestly I have a difficult time seeing how people can be satifisied with how Hots looks currently. I played around 300 games of it (as a terran) and I found speed medis very interesting, but kinda lost motivation right now. Too much missed potential, and overall the game isn't noticeable better than Wol.
You must have spent at least 30 hours trolling these boards and shitting on various aspects of HoTS. You have already gotten your money's worth from the game and you didn't even purchase it. Also given how much time you spent trolling these boards, I can say with absolute certainty that you will buy HoTS. You're like a guy who constantly bad mouths and picks on a girl, because he likes her and doesn't know how otherwise to express himself.
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I've very much enjoyed watching/playing the beta. It's definitely different, with some new possibilities. The UI and BNet changes are also quite welcome.
As far as the "it's still deathball vs deathball!" argument, well...it's still only been out for a couple months, and hardly any of the game's top players have really put any time into it. Unfortunately, we likely won't start seeing huge shifts in gameplay until the tournament level players are focusing full time on the game.
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On January 02 2013 22:34 The_Darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2013 22:21 Hider wrote:On January 02 2013 22:03 MilesTeg wrote: With a community like that Starcraft really doesn't need haters... Constructive criticism is good, brainless bashing isn't.
The game is definitely going in the right direction, it just requires fine tuning at this point. Some things (reapers, mines...) just don't work well but they will be fixed. The new units add a ton of flexibility and stability to Zerg and Protoss, and a lot of potential for aggression and harassment. As an aggressive Zerg who's not a big fan of the deathball it's like they made the game for me.
The game is actually so much better than WoL, I just can't play that game anymore (despite the obvious problems that will be fixed by release - not to mention the ridiculous lag). And then you have the improved matchmaking, which will make a huge difference to me... I'm actually really happy with HotS so far. Lets try to analyze whether HOTS actually is a step in the right direction: Steps forward- Speed Medi - Mothercore - Oracle -Infested terrans Steps the wrong way-Void Ray (unless Blizzard can come up with a creative idea like Onegoal does - I think they would be better of just removing the unit). - Reaper (should be make a viable mid/late game harass unit like the mutalisk instead of the current early tvt shit it is now). - Raven (seeker missile is much more boring right now and opponent can't really remicro against it as one could in WOL). - Swarm hosts (most boring unit in the game). Neither good nor bad- Battle hellions. - Thors -Mines (decent vs zerg - but doesn't work the proper way vs toss and terran). - Tempest (honestly kinda boring). - Viper( cloud is an okay ability, however abduct is badly designed). - Fungal growth Missed oppurtunities that we unfortunately won't see in HOTS-Reworking the economy (reducing the efficiency on 1-2-3 bases). - Removing mules/plantaries as they make the game more boring, and compensation terrans with slighly cheper units mineral wise. -Making mines a viable replacent for plantaries (along with a couple of tanks). Right now the current 2 food version doesn't work. There are however, various different approaches one could take to make them better designed; Onegoal's mines are better. Bw mines are beter. Another kind of mines could be mines which have higher DPS but the opponent can remicro against the mines by moving units in a different location after they get activated. -Corrupters are still boring. -Making tank-mech viable tvp (lots of different approaches they could have experimented with - unfortunately they haven't even tried making this work). - Making reapers a viable mid/late game unit (it is actually extremely fun to play around - shouldn't just be a gimmicky unit). - Making Raven's turrets better. -Redesigning the collosus. - Redesigning snipe/emp as the opponent bacially can't remicro against it. - Making the immortal more interesting. - Redesign warpgate tech (in a similar fashion as onegoal does it - though shouldn't have highest priority). - Making protoss less reliable on forcefields. -Differentiering yamato cannons from seeker missile (though I think we will likely see a change in one of the next patches). -Making fungal slow. Honestly I have a difficult time seeing how people can be satifisied with how Hots looks currently. I played around 300 games of it (as a terran) and I found speed medis very interesting, but kinda lost motivation right now. Too much missed potential, and overall the game isn't noticeable better than Wol. You must have spent at least 30 hours trolling these boards and shitting on various aspects of HoTS. You have already gotten your money's worth from the game and you didn't even purchase it. Also given how much time you spent trolling these boards, I can say with absolute certainty that you will buy HoTS. You're like a guy who constantly bad mouths and picks on a girl, because he likes her and doesn't know how otherwise to express himself.
Using logic to make an argument which you disagree with = troll?
The reason I enjoy(ed) sc2 has little to do with Dustin Browder and co and more to do with the competent guys who developed BW. The stacraft formula basically could not go completely wrong, even though the current Blizzard guys have made a lot of mistakes.
But you know what. You actually got it all wrong. Blizzard should be the one who were thankful. Having people testing the game for free and analyzing the product in detail is extremelye valuable for any company. Blizzard could have developed a much better product if they had spent more time studying proper game design. Using BW as a case study might have been a good idea (clearly, DB didn't do that unfortunately).
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To some extent, Hider makes sense. Blizzard promised viable TvP mech. Yet, the game is about to be released and there doesn't seem to be any indication towards fixing that aspect. The thor cannon change is GREAT, but it's not enough to combat everything else that was introduced in patch 9, which ironically, weakened mech. I also agree with using BW design philosophy to fix certain flaws. The disappointment comes from what has been promised but not delivered, which obviously makes people feel cheated and therefore unhappy with the end product, which is a perfectly valid reason.
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TvZ honestly seems a lot better than it did in WOL. Which does not say a lot, since it is a really really bad matchup atm in WoL. In my opinion, it is the worst matchup in starcraft 2 ever. the new TvP seems dumb, the same as in WoL, just with protoss having more options, and terran having a little bit of a better army with the new healing. TvT is basically the same + reapers.
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On January 02 2013 22:37 KrazyTrumpet wrote: I've very much enjoyed watching/playing the beta. It's definitely different, with some new possibilities. The UI and BNet changes are also quite welcome.
As far as the "it's still deathball vs deathball!" argument, well...it's still only been out for a couple months, and hardly any of the game's top players have really put any time into it. Unfortunately, we likely won't start seeing huge shifts in gameplay until the tournament level players are focusing full time on the game. Oh come on ... the "it's still only been out for a couple months" argument doesnt really work, because you need DRASTIC changes to add risks to using a deathball. Blizzard hasnt done that and its not going to come from strategy. Without penalty people will still go for the most effective "big army" composition.
On January 02 2013 22:51 Novacute wrote: To some extent, Hider makes sense. Blizzard promised viable TvP mech. Yet, the game is about to be released and there doesn't seem to be any indication towards fixing that aspect. The thor cannon change is GREAT, but it's not enough to combat everything else that was introduced in patch 9, which ironically, weakened mech. I also agree with using BW design philosophy to fix certain flaws. The disappointment comes from what has been promised but not delivered, which obviously makes people feel cheated and therefore unhappy with the end product, which is a perfectly valid reason. Lets see if he really makes sense ... with all of his predictions ... since "Oracle" is listed under "step in the right direction" and it could end up as a terrible easy-mode fast harrasser unit which completely destabilizes the game.
What Blizzard says and what they do are two very different pairs of shoes ... and since they didnt even bother trying to adjust the Siege Tank to make it a more viable unit, I have serious doubts as to either the honesty of their claim ... or their ability to develop / balance this game.
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It fixes colossi war and lategame pvz, enough of a reason for me to buy...
Though that doesn't mean that I'm happy with hots overall, there is still a lot of really broken shit and blizzard is making really weird patch changes sometimes.
Wol to me is really broken right now, every zerg matchup is just messing up infestors (with the exception of lategame pvz being a total joke), lategame pvp is shitty as fuck, tvt is still not mech vs mech every game and pvt is still bio vs everything that counters bio. So just due to that, hots is already a far better game.
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meanwhile at blizzard. Dustin Browder is having his new years coffee, logging in for the first time after a week with his family, he starts off his day with a relaxing read of the Team Liquid - HOTS forum and finds this thread. In utter panic, he rushes to the telephone to call his good friend David Kim
Dustin B: FUCK, ITS WORSE THAN WE EXPECTED David K: Yo D-Man, chillax. DB: I've just come from the TL forum, shits hittin the fan, according to a poll 40% will not buy this game if we dont make serious changes DK: We need to pull it together and totally add new units. DB: YEA especially need to cater to the needs of our terran friends, they really got the short end of the stick DK: a new unit? DB: at least four, and we will bring in all broodwar units. DK: Why didnt we think of this earlier
And the starcraft community rejoiced, untill they played the game and found out, adding more shit made the game pretty bad and imbalanced. And everyone bought the game anyway.
DK: Bath of money at my place? DB: Sure.
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Its a must buy no question. Like Frozen Throne you have to transition or stop the game completly. 99,5% will switch instantly to HotS, so no one will play WoL - you have no choice. I already bought the Digital Deluxe for 55€ (all money from D3 Items lol) and I don't think I'll regret it.
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yes....thanks to medivacs caduceus reactor and emergency thrusters
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On January 02 2013 22:41 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2013 22:34 The_Darkness wrote:On January 02 2013 22:21 Hider wrote:On January 02 2013 22:03 MilesTeg wrote: With a community like that Starcraft really doesn't need haters... Constructive criticism is good, brainless bashing isn't.
The game is definitely going in the right direction, it just requires fine tuning at this point. Some things (reapers, mines...) just don't work well but they will be fixed. The new units add a ton of flexibility and stability to Zerg and Protoss, and a lot of potential for aggression and harassment. As an aggressive Zerg who's not a big fan of the deathball it's like they made the game for me.
The game is actually so much better than WoL, I just can't play that game anymore (despite the obvious problems that will be fixed by release - not to mention the ridiculous lag). And then you have the improved matchmaking, which will make a huge difference to me... I'm actually really happy with HotS so far. Lets try to analyze whether HOTS actually is a step in the right direction: Steps forward- Speed Medi - Mothercore - Oracle -Infested terrans Steps the wrong way-Void Ray (unless Blizzard can come up with a creative idea like Onegoal does - I think they would be better of just removing the unit). - Reaper (should be make a viable mid/late game harass unit like the mutalisk instead of the current early tvt shit it is now). - Raven (seeker missile is much more boring right now and opponent can't really remicro against it as one could in WOL). - Swarm hosts (most boring unit in the game). Neither good nor bad- Battle hellions. - Thors -Mines (decent vs zerg - but doesn't work the proper way vs toss and terran). - Tempest (honestly kinda boring). - Viper( cloud is an okay ability, however abduct is badly designed). - Fungal growth Missed oppurtunities that we unfortunately won't see in HOTS-Reworking the economy (reducing the efficiency on 1-2-3 bases). - Removing mules/plantaries as they make the game more boring, and compensation terrans with slighly cheper units mineral wise. -Making mines a viable replacent for plantaries (along with a couple of tanks). Right now the current 2 food version doesn't work. There are however, various different approaches one could take to make them better designed; Onegoal's mines are better. Bw mines are beter. Another kind of mines could be mines which have higher DPS but the opponent can remicro against the mines by moving units in a different location after they get activated. -Corrupters are still boring. -Making tank-mech viable tvp (lots of different approaches they could have experimented with - unfortunately they haven't even tried making this work). - Making reapers a viable mid/late game unit (it is actually extremely fun to play around - shouldn't just be a gimmicky unit). - Making Raven's turrets better. -Redesigning the collosus. - Redesigning snipe/emp as the opponent bacially can't remicro against it. - Making the immortal more interesting. - Redesign warpgate tech (in a similar fashion as onegoal does it - though shouldn't have highest priority). - Making protoss less reliable on forcefields. -Differentiering yamato cannons from seeker missile (though I think we will likely see a change in one of the next patches). -Making fungal slow. Honestly I have a difficult time seeing how people can be satifisied with how Hots looks currently. I played around 300 games of it (as a terran) and I found speed medis very interesting, but kinda lost motivation right now. Too much missed potential, and overall the game isn't noticeable better than Wol. You must have spent at least 30 hours trolling these boards and shitting on various aspects of HoTS. You have already gotten your money's worth from the game and you didn't even purchase it. Also given how much time you spent trolling these boards, I can say with absolute certainty that you will buy HoTS. You're like a guy who constantly bad mouths and picks on a girl, because he likes her and doesn't know how otherwise to express himself. Using logic to make an argument which you disagree with = troll? The reason I enjoy(ed) sc2 has little to do with Dustin Browder and co and more to do with the competent guys who developed BW. The stacraft formula basically could not go completely wrong, even though the current Blizzard guys have made a lot of mistakes. But you know what. You actually got it all wrong. Blizzard should be the one who were thankful. Having people testing the game for free and analyzing the product in detail is extremelye valuable for any company. Blizzard could have developed a much better product if they had spent more time studying proper game design. Using BW as a case study might have been a good idea (clearly, DB didn't do that unfortunately).
He's right to be honest. You're the kind of guy who speaks louder than anyone else, and never listens to anything that might challenge your opinion. It's pretty obvious that there's no convincing you, and that if Blizzard does anything that isn't 100% exactly what you, with your superior opinion, think they should do, you will claim that "David Kim is retarded" or "Blizz just doesn't get it".
What do you want people to answer? You make claims like "Swarm Host is the most boring unit in the game"... well, as a player I disagree. I think it's the best thing to happen in the game, I think it's better and more fun than the Lurker, I love it. It will take time to figure it out but it might be one of the best and most exciting units in the game, and will in my opinion transform every matchup. The Viper is amazing too, I think in terms of design it's probably better than the defiler. Your missed opportunities are partly stuff that are really just your opinion, and don't forget that they aren't done with the beta either. The infestor, mines, ravens... those things are certainly going to change before release.
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On January 02 2013 23:42 MilesTeg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2013 22:41 Hider wrote:On January 02 2013 22:34 The_Darkness wrote:On January 02 2013 22:21 Hider wrote:On January 02 2013 22:03 MilesTeg wrote: With a community like that Starcraft really doesn't need haters... Constructive criticism is good, brainless bashing isn't.
The game is definitely going in the right direction, it just requires fine tuning at this point. Some things (reapers, mines...) just don't work well but they will be fixed. The new units add a ton of flexibility and stability to Zerg and Protoss, and a lot of potential for aggression and harassment. As an aggressive Zerg who's not a big fan of the deathball it's like they made the game for me.
The game is actually so much better than WoL, I just can't play that game anymore (despite the obvious problems that will be fixed by release - not to mention the ridiculous lag). And then you have the improved matchmaking, which will make a huge difference to me... I'm actually really happy with HotS so far. Lets try to analyze whether HOTS actually is a step in the right direction: Steps forward- Speed Medi - Mothercore - Oracle -Infested terrans Steps the wrong way-Void Ray (unless Blizzard can come up with a creative idea like Onegoal does - I think they would be better of just removing the unit). - Reaper (should be make a viable mid/late game harass unit like the mutalisk instead of the current early tvt shit it is now). - Raven (seeker missile is much more boring right now and opponent can't really remicro against it as one could in WOL). - Swarm hosts (most boring unit in the game). Neither good nor bad- Battle hellions. - Thors -Mines (decent vs zerg - but doesn't work the proper way vs toss and terran). - Tempest (honestly kinda boring). - Viper( cloud is an okay ability, however abduct is badly designed). - Fungal growth Missed oppurtunities that we unfortunately won't see in HOTS-Reworking the economy (reducing the efficiency on 1-2-3 bases). - Removing mules/plantaries as they make the game more boring, and compensation terrans with slighly cheper units mineral wise. -Making mines a viable replacent for plantaries (along with a couple of tanks). Right now the current 2 food version doesn't work. There are however, various different approaches one could take to make them better designed; Onegoal's mines are better. Bw mines are beter. Another kind of mines could be mines which have higher DPS but the opponent can remicro against the mines by moving units in a different location after they get activated. -Corrupters are still boring. -Making tank-mech viable tvp (lots of different approaches they could have experimented with - unfortunately they haven't even tried making this work). - Making reapers a viable mid/late game unit (it is actually extremely fun to play around - shouldn't just be a gimmicky unit). - Making Raven's turrets better. -Redesigning the collosus. - Redesigning snipe/emp as the opponent bacially can't remicro against it. - Making the immortal more interesting. - Redesign warpgate tech (in a similar fashion as onegoal does it - though shouldn't have highest priority). - Making protoss less reliable on forcefields. -Differentiering yamato cannons from seeker missile (though I think we will likely see a change in one of the next patches). -Making fungal slow. Honestly I have a difficult time seeing how people can be satifisied with how Hots looks currently. I played around 300 games of it (as a terran) and I found speed medis very interesting, but kinda lost motivation right now. Too much missed potential, and overall the game isn't noticeable better than Wol. You must have spent at least 30 hours trolling these boards and shitting on various aspects of HoTS. You have already gotten your money's worth from the game and you didn't even purchase it. Also given how much time you spent trolling these boards, I can say with absolute certainty that you will buy HoTS. You're like a guy who constantly bad mouths and picks on a girl, because he likes her and doesn't know how otherwise to express himself. Using logic to make an argument which you disagree with = troll? The reason I enjoy(ed) sc2 has little to do with Dustin Browder and co and more to do with the competent guys who developed BW. The stacraft formula basically could not go completely wrong, even though the current Blizzard guys have made a lot of mistakes. But you know what. You actually got it all wrong. Blizzard should be the one who were thankful. Having people testing the game for free and analyzing the product in detail is extremelye valuable for any company. Blizzard could have developed a much better product if they had spent more time studying proper game design. Using BW as a case study might have been a good idea (clearly, DB didn't do that unfortunately). He's right to be honest. You're the kind of guy who speaks louder than anyone else, and never listens to anything that might challenge your opinion. It's pretty obvious that there's no convincing you, and that if Blizzard does anything that isn't 100% exactly what you, with your superior opinion, think they should do, you will claim that "David Kim is retarded" or "Blizz just doesn't get it". What do you want people to answer? You make claims like "Swarm Host is the most boring unit in the game"... well, as a player I disagree. I think it's the best thing to happen in the game, I think it's better and more fun than the Lurker, I love it. It will take time to figure it out but it might be one of the best and most exciting units in the game, and will in my opinion transform every matchup. The Viper is amazing too, I think in terms of design it's probably better than the defiler. Your missed opportunities are partly stuff that are really just your opinion, and don't forget that they aren't done with the beta either. The infestor, mines, ravens... those things are certainly going to change before release.
1) No he is not right. Look at what he actually wrote; - Troll. No I am not a troll by arguing that Hots isn't worth buying. And to clarifiy my motivation: I really don't want people to buy the game if it turns out to be as bad as expected, and I hope sales figures dissapoints, and DB and co either gets fired and replaced by someone competent. If people just buy the game blindly, Blizzard has no incentive to make the proper changes in the future. - I will definitely buy the game; How does he know that? Why make such a statement. - Picking on a girl... etc...; Doesn't deserve a response.
2) You, however, are writing something else. So let me take a look at your arguments. When I go into an argument I always assume I am right; Yes, what is the big deal? Everybody does that, but the point of the discussion is never to convince the other part, it is to convince other readers/viewers. Do you want me to always go into a dicussion by stating; "I think xxxx", even though that adds nothing to my argument, nothing to the content, its just an emotionel trick to make your self more likeable. But I am not a politican, and I am not in it for the popularity. I am in it for the hard facts and the truth.
You argue that my "missed oppurtunities" are filled with my own opinions;
Oh sorry, I should have sourced the official "missed opportunities website" instead. Sarcasm off. Honestly, what were you thinking when you wrote that comment? Of course its my own opinions, though I share most of the opinions with the community. Most of the units (with the exception of the ghost I guess) has been discussed many times previously on Teamliquid and I found it unnecessary to go into a lenghty discussion on why starcraft would be better off with those units receiving a proper redesign.
Regarding the Swarm Hosts, the main problem with the unit (in my opinion) is that it stagnates mech in tvz. You literraly can't do anything other than massing tanks against hydra/swarm hosts. YOu have to sit and turtle in location X forever... You can't push forward or anything. Your trapped. These kinds of games are insanely boring, and another problem with the unit is that it just isn't good in small numbers. It needs to be "massed" to be efficient. You may think (as a possible zerg player) that it is fun to play against. But try play mech against someone who masses it and you will bore your self to death. Honestly, I also think that turtle mech can be found to execute, but its a pain in the ass to play against, and hopelessly boring for the spectator, thus it is bad design.
Abduct is a bad designed spell, because you can't remicro against.
But if you disagree with my other suggestions, you are free to argue why you think starcraft couldn't be a better game if corrupters/collosus's.........etc. got redesigned. Do you really think those units are that entertaining?
Then you assume that people will figure stuff out. IMO that is the wrong approach. What if it doens't get figured out? Fungal never got figured out, actually infestors just got even more boring to play against over time. You "figure out" guys always assumes that it only goes the one way, e.g. it will always improve the game. But if you doesn't have a proper theoretical understanding of the unit, it could just as well go the other way (when it gets figued out).
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Honestly, you and anyone else are probably not going to convince people to buy, or not buy, HOTS. The game will sell, and it will sell very well. You may want to look around for an indie game that meets your needs, or just play BW.
At the core of the issue that is Blizzard is indeed selling the game to make money. To do that, they must expand their customer base as much as possible. Everything that makes the game "easier" to play usually only increases the amount of people playing the game. In reality, the most important people that Blizzard answers to are its shareholders and not the small group of hardcore gamers. AAA releases need to have big numbers to pay for the production and advertising costs. Call of Duty, League of Legends, Halo, etc. are big flagships franchises that need to make big money to justify their development costs. Starcraft is no different.
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If you play Protoss like me, totally, although the deathball problem is worse than ever. If you're Zerg, probably. If you're Terran, definitely not.
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No to both. Make the game more accessible Blizzard - look around you: your competitors are going to leave you in the dust.
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When blizzard talked about making mech better in hots alot of us rejoiced, but up to right now they haven't succeeded at all.
Instead they have made bio better, mech openings got worse in TvP and TvT.
TvZ is still a matchup that i enjoy alot. But that's exactly like WoL. HOTS TvT is worse then WoL TvT (Mostly thanks to the reaper), and TvP protoss got a new air death-ball, so once again it's about killing them before they get an unstoppable army.
So basically TvZ gets a little better, TvT gets worse and TvP stays the same?
Hope we will see some major reworks soon.....
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I am REALLY disapointed with what they have been doing with Toss at the Moment. Instead of fixing Toss´ top heaviness and improoving Gateway units in the lategame they added MORE High tech units that make Gateway tech even LESS of a thing lategame. Now its not the Colossi/Templar deathball with gateway support, now its the Voidray/Carrier/tempest deathball with Colossi/Templar support ....
I will buy most probably buy HotS no matter what but if it stays like it is now i will just play things like SC2BW or Starbow (assuming they´d also be uploaded to hots)
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I buy blizzard games blindly lol
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