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On January 04 2013 14:26 virgol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 12:22 Fencar wrote: I think that, maybe, everyone would want to want until the game is, you know, actually finished before jumping to conclusions. Really. 3 months left to go before release, perhaps you should wake up. As a Terran I feel cheated, and for the first time I'm considering cancelling my preorder of HotS. How could Blizzard, the company I used to love, fall so low? There's no magic, no love for the game. They lost the fundamental product and is just now desperately trying to board up a broken house - aka patching furiously. After totally conquering the RTS & MMO genres and more or less having monopoly, the businessmen has taken over leadership, trying to squeeze the most money possible out of the products instead of letting innovation and love for the products go first. The major design flaws are still here. Deathballs, warpin, unmicroable A-move units. Boring units. Immortals are strong and slow, tempests are strong and slow, colossi are strong and slow, brood lords are strong and slow, and guess what, thors and BC's are also strong and slow. Do they really have no imagination beyond the concept of strong and slow Deathball-units? What the hell were they thinking with, when they buffed early-game reapers? Why the hell are tanks still shit against Protoss? Why the heck is their solution to Terran a super-healing upgrade for the medivac? Do they think medivac play is underutilized...?! While I initially thought mothership core was a good thing; preventing allin-bonanzas in PvP and providing a little security for new tosses who wouldn't scout properly; it has of course turned the other way around - providing even deadlier blink-allins while providing invulnerability against any kind of early pokes and pressures. I won't even go into the filth of the new, extremely funny Tempest+Templar+Colossus+Carrier ball. I seriously hope they rediscover their love for the product and come up with some brilliant changes in 3 months. But I doubt it.
While I do share your sentiments, you can't expect Blizzard to completely fix all the problems that people don't want to adapt to and the ones that are actually problems. And each person believes their opinions are right, now matter how unbiased each person tries to be. Although, I wish they actually tackled some of the problems rather than trying to go around it with just new units and abilities... And most people seem to be intent on buying HotS anyways, so I don't think that our voice will matter much to Blizzard, as much I wish it did. After all, we're just guinea pigs right now for the beta. Not saying that this game isn't worth the $40, but I don't think that investing the time into fixing a game, when the developers seemed to spend 2 years developing something that another team could've came up with in at least a year, is worth it. HotS just looks like a recycled WoL. This is kinda like Apple's marketing "scam" where they just tweak a few things, which in theory shouldn't be too difficult provided the original template is there, and sell the new product for an exorbitant amount of money. It's basically the only thing out there that's a quality product, yet, at the same time, we really wish there was a cheaper or better alternative. Even after Samsung and Google entered the market, Apple still holds more than 50% the smartphone/smartpad industry. The same idea holds for SC2. SC2 is obviously not $200, but what I would get from HotS would be the same as if I upgraded my iPhone 4 to an iPhone5. And I can save that $60-80 on 2 expansions for something else more worthwhile...I know for a fact I will not be able to play HotS for longer than I played D3 for, and I already wasted $60 on that shitty game. I don't want to feed this greedy machine anymore, and even if it means nothing to them, I'm not buying anymore Blizzard products until they start caring about their products.
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On January 04 2013 15:08 imBLIND wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 14:26 virgol wrote:On January 04 2013 12:22 Fencar wrote: I think that, maybe, everyone would want to want until the game is, you know, actually finished before jumping to conclusions. Really. 3 months left to go before release, perhaps you should wake up. As a Terran I feel cheated, and for the first time I'm considering cancelling my preorder of HotS. How could Blizzard, the company I used to love, fall so low? There's no magic, no love for the game. They lost the fundamental product and is just now desperately trying to board up a broken house - aka patching furiously. After totally conquering the RTS & MMO genres and more or less having monopoly, the businessmen has taken over leadership, trying to squeeze the most money possible out of the products instead of letting innovation and love for the products go first. The major design flaws are still here. Deathballs, warpin, unmicroable A-move units. Boring units. Immortals are strong and slow, tempests are strong and slow, colossi are strong and slow, brood lords are strong and slow, and guess what, thors and BC's are also strong and slow. Do they really have no imagination beyond the concept of strong and slow Deathball-units? What the hell were they thinking with, when they buffed early-game reapers? Why the hell are tanks still shit against Protoss? Why the heck is their solution to Terran a super-healing upgrade for the medivac? Do they think medivac play is underutilized...?! While I initially thought mothership core was a good thing; preventing allin-bonanzas in PvP and providing a little security for new tosses who wouldn't scout properly; it has of course turned the other way around - providing even deadlier blink-allins while providing invulnerability against any kind of early pokes and pressures. I won't even go into the filth of the new, extremely funny Tempest+Templar+Colossus+Carrier ball. I seriously hope they rediscover their love for the product and come up with some brilliant changes in 3 months. But I doubt it. While I do share your sentiments, you can't expect Blizzard to completely fix all the problems that people don't want to adapt to and the ones that are actually problems. And each person believes their opinions are right, now matter how unbiased each person tries to be. Although, I wish they actually tackled some of the problems rather than trying to go around it with just new units and abilities... And most people seem to be intent on buying HotS anyways, so I don't think that our voice will matter much to Blizzard, as much I wish it did. After all, we're just guinea pigs right now for the beta. Not saying that this game isn't worth the $40, but I don't think that investing the time into fixing a game, when the developers seemed to spend 2 years developing something that another team could've came up with in at least a year, is worth it. HotS just looks like a recycled WoL. This is kinda like Apple's marketing "scam" where they just tweak a few things, which in theory shouldn't be too difficult provided the original template is there, and sell the new product for an exorbitant amount of money. It's basically the only thing out there that's a quality product, yet, at the same time, we really wish there was a cheaper or better alternative. Even after Samsung and Google entered the market, Apple still holds more than 50% the smartphone/smartpad industry. The same idea holds for SC2. SC2 is obviously not $200, but what I would get from HotS would be the same as if I upgraded my iPhone 4 to an iPhone5. And I can save that $60-80 on 2 expansions for something else more worthwhile...I know for a fact I will not be able to play HotS for longer than I played D3 for, and I already wasted $60 on that shitty game. I don't want to feed this greedy machine anymore, and even if it means nothing to them, I'm not buying anymore Blizzard products until they start caring about their products.
This would only be true if sc2 did not have single player. But it does, so you are also paying for that.
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On January 04 2013 14:26 virgol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 12:22 Fencar wrote: I think that, maybe, everyone would want to want until the game is, you know, actually finished before jumping to conclusions. Really. 3 months left to go before release, perhaps you should wake up. As a Terran I feel cheated, and for the first time I'm considering cancelling my preorder of HotS. How could Blizzard, the company I used to love, fall so low? There's no magic, no love for the game. They lost the fundamental product and is just now desperately trying to board up a broken house - aka patching furiously. After totally conquering the RTS & MMO genres and more or less having monopoly, the businessmen has taken over leadership, trying to squeeze the most money possible out of the products instead of letting innovation and love for the products go first. The major design flaws are still here. Deathballs, warpin, unmicroable A-move units. Boring units. Immortals are strong and slow, tempests are strong and slow, colossi are strong and slow, brood lords are strong and slow, and guess what, thors and BC's are also strong and slow. Do they really have no imagination beyond the concept of strong and slow Deathball-units? What the hell were they thinking with, when they buffed early-game reapers? Why the hell are tanks still shit against Protoss? Why the heck is their solution to Terran a super-healing upgrade for the medivac? Do they think medivac play is underutilized...?! While I initially thought mothership core was a good thing; preventing allin-bonanzas in PvP and providing a little security for new tosses who wouldn't scout properly; it has of course turned the other way around - providing even deadlier blink-allins while providing invulnerability against any kind of early pokes and pressures. I won't even go into the filth of the new, extremely funny Tempest+Templar+Colossus+Carrier ball. I seriously hope they rediscover their love for the product and come up with some brilliant changes in 3 months. But I doubt it. ...So? The game isn't out yet, it's in beta. The same thing seemed to happen with BF3; people treated the beta as the done game, and lowered their expectations of BF3 because of this. The beta is not a demo.
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On January 04 2013 15:12 Xanbatou wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 15:08 imBLIND wrote:On January 04 2013 14:26 virgol wrote:On January 04 2013 12:22 Fencar wrote: I think that, maybe, everyone would want to want until the game is, you know, actually finished before jumping to conclusions. Really. 3 months left to go before release, perhaps you should wake up. As a Terran I feel cheated, and for the first time I'm considering cancelling my preorder of HotS. How could Blizzard, the company I used to love, fall so low? There's no magic, no love for the game. They lost the fundamental product and is just now desperately trying to board up a broken house - aka patching furiously. After totally conquering the RTS & MMO genres and more or less having monopoly, the businessmen has taken over leadership, trying to squeeze the most money possible out of the products instead of letting innovation and love for the products go first. The major design flaws are still here. Deathballs, warpin, unmicroable A-move units. Boring units. Immortals are strong and slow, tempests are strong and slow, colossi are strong and slow, brood lords are strong and slow, and guess what, thors and BC's are also strong and slow. Do they really have no imagination beyond the concept of strong and slow Deathball-units? What the hell were they thinking with, when they buffed early-game reapers? Why the hell are tanks still shit against Protoss? Why the heck is their solution to Terran a super-healing upgrade for the medivac? Do they think medivac play is underutilized...?! While I initially thought mothership core was a good thing; preventing allin-bonanzas in PvP and providing a little security for new tosses who wouldn't scout properly; it has of course turned the other way around - providing even deadlier blink-allins while providing invulnerability against any kind of early pokes and pressures. I won't even go into the filth of the new, extremely funny Tempest+Templar+Colossus+Carrier ball. I seriously hope they rediscover their love for the product and come up with some brilliant changes in 3 months. But I doubt it. While I do share your sentiments, you can't expect Blizzard to completely fix all the problems that people don't want to adapt to and the ones that are actually problems. And each person believes their opinions are right, now matter how unbiased each person tries to be. Although, I wish they actually tackled some of the problems rather than trying to go around it with just new units and abilities... And most people seem to be intent on buying HotS anyways, so I don't think that our voice will matter much to Blizzard, as much I wish it did. After all, we're just guinea pigs right now for the beta. Not saying that this game isn't worth the $40, but I don't think that investing the time into fixing a game, when the developers seemed to spend 2 years developing something that another team could've came up with in at least a year, is worth it. HotS just looks like a recycled WoL. This is kinda like Apple's marketing "scam" where they just tweak a few things, which in theory shouldn't be too difficult provided the original template is there, and sell the new product for an exorbitant amount of money. It's basically the only thing out there that's a quality product, yet, at the same time, we really wish there was a cheaper or better alternative. Even after Samsung and Google entered the market, Apple still holds more than 50% the smartphone/smartpad industry. The same idea holds for SC2. SC2 is obviously not $200, but what I would get from HotS would be the same as if I upgraded my iPhone 4 to an iPhone5. And I can save that $60-80 on 2 expansions for something else more worthwhile...I know for a fact I will not be able to play HotS for longer than I played D3 for, and I already wasted $60 on that shitty game. I don't want to feed this greedy machine anymore, and even if it means nothing to them, I'm not buying anymore Blizzard products until they start caring about their products. This would only be true if sc2 did not have single player. But it does, so you are also paying for that.
Cienmatics aren't worth paying for because of youtube. The single player story is most likely going to be retarded if they have the same team from WoL making the storyline. Finishing it on brutal for me would take a week...tops. This+the stuff I mentioned before = $40 and a month of my time? Unless they do something to give me a reason to play this for more than a month, I'm not buying it. Oh and the hardest part of the campaign for Blizzard? Rendering 5 minutes of movie time and figuring how much to pay the voice actors
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On January 04 2013 14:26 virgol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 12:22 Fencar wrote: I think that, maybe, everyone would want to want until the game is, you know, actually finished before jumping to conclusions. Really. 3 months left to go before release, perhaps you should wake up. As a Terran I feel cheated, and for the first time I'm considering cancelling my preorder of HotS. How could Blizzard, the company I used to love, fall so low? There's no magic, no love for the game. They lost the fundamental product and is just now desperately trying to board up a broken house - aka patching furiously. After totally conquering the RTS & MMO genres and more or less having monopoly, the businessmen has taken over leadership, trying to squeeze the most money possible out of the products instead of letting innovation and love for the products go first. The major design flaws are still here. Deathballs, warpin, unmicroable A-move units. Boring units. Immortals are strong and slow, tempests are strong and slow, colossi are strong and slow, brood lords are strong and slow, and guess what, thors and BC's are also strong and slow. Do they really have no imagination beyond the concept of strong and slow Deathball-units? What the hell were they thinking with, when they buffed early-game reapers? Why the hell are tanks still shit against Protoss? Why the heck is their solution to Terran a super-healing upgrade for the medivac? Do they think medivac play is underutilized...?! While I initially thought mothership core was a good thing; preventing allin-bonanzas in PvP and providing a little security for new tosses who wouldn't scout properly; it has of course turned the other way around - providing even deadlier blink-allins while providing invulnerability against any kind of early pokes and pressures. I won't even go into the filth of the new, extremely funny Tempest+Templar+Colossus+Carrier ball. I seriously hope they rediscover their love for the product and come up with some brilliant changes in 3 months. But I doubt it.
I wouldn't go as far to say that I feel cheated, but its disappointing to see the game having such massive flaws in my eyes even after all this time.
I don't know why the WoL team insists on keeping their new units in the game, they are unimaginative and have abysmal spectator value. Looking at collossi and thors primarily here.
SC2 isn't a bad game by any means, but Blizzard has fallen a long way, doubt I will buy HotS.
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Getting a month of entertainment for 40 bucks seems like a damn good value to me.
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the campaign is worth 59 dollars and multiplayer is worth -20 dollars.
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25% ticking "No, if they don't change it enough to make it worth it." This implies that they consider the changes which are already implemented in the beta not enough to worth it. Or does it? I rather guess that almost anyone will buy HotS and those 25% only used this poll option to send a message to Blizzard or to act as if they are so used to the best stuff only that even this expansion is not enough for them, making someone who is statiesfied with HotS look like easy to impress.
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Some people are never happy. Whatever blizzard does, there is always a 20-30% of the community complaining about everything. For example, with the worker count written, people say that game is becoming too easy and blah blah blah. If the blizzard put something to make the game "harder" in the same way, people would claim that the game doesn't focus enough on micro, or that mechanichs are too important in comparison with strategy, or that SC2 discourages casual gaming, etc. After all this "HotS sucks" drama most of the people are still going to buy it. The poll says 68% but i bet that 2/3 of the people who voted for " only if they change it" are going to buy it no matter what. They fixed A LOT of things with HotS. Just think about -Clan system -Unranked matchmaking system (in favour of casual players and people with ladder anxiety in general) -Supply depots in ladder maps and so on.
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On January 04 2013 17:56 Zyklonzack wrote: Getting a month of entertainment for 40 bucks seems like a damn good value to me.
Man just buy a guitar : ~100$ for a full lifetime entertainement!
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On January 04 2013 18:39 LloydPGM wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 17:56 Zyklonzack wrote: Getting a month of entertainment for 40 bucks seems like a damn good value to me.
Man just buy a guitar : ~100$ for a full lifetime entertainement!
Pfff, funny guy. People who spend their entire life playing an instrument are going to be spending a whole lot more than 100 bucks.
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On January 04 2013 15:08 imBLIND wrote: Not saying that this game isn't worth the $40, but I don't think that investing the time into fixing a game, when the developers seemed to spend 2 years developing something that another team could've came up with in at least a year, is worth it. HotS just looks like a recycled WoL. This is kinda like Apple's marketing "scam" where they just tweak a few things, which in theory shouldn't be too difficult provided the original template is there, and sell the new product for an exorbitant amount of money. It's basically the only thing out there that's a quality product, yet, at the same time, we really wish there was a cheaper or better alternative. Even after Samsung and Google entered the market, Apple still holds more than 50% the smartphone/smartpad industry. The same idea holds for SC2. That could be a good thing even. In the times where RTS still went strong, a lot of games tried to reinvent the wheel. But after a while the game mechanics felt gimmicky. Do we want an esoteric game with arcane game mechanics? Or do we rather have this traditional RTS with a strong focus on economy?
Apple of course ripped me off. I had the Ipod nano 4g, and when the 5g was launched, I bought it too. Because it had a larger display (though the Ipod itself was not larger), a build-in radio and video camera even. But do we need radical new products in the RTS genre? What would the progamers say if HotS would be really different from WoL?
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Hots is not worth it, WoL wasnt either.
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I would buy HotS for so much more than what it's actually going to cost.
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I wouldn't buy it personally. $60 for wings of liberty and then another $40 for HotS? Blizzard is going to have a hard time bringing in new players and thus, your ladder experience will be worse.
The custom game scene isn't worth it either, not nearly as good or as memorable as WC3.
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I would gladly spend $200 for HOTS.
I save so much money by playing SC2 instead of several single player games. Besides HOTS is much more fun than WOL, I have not played a single WOL game or looked at a single WOL match since I got into the HOTS beta many months ago.
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this topic feel a lot like a test market from a blizz employee... xD
anyway, already bought the game so.... end of discussion from me i guess lol
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On January 04 2013 20:02 nomyx wrote: I wouldn't buy it personally. $60 for wings of liberty and then another $40 for HotS? Blizzard is going to have a hard time bringing in new players and thus, your ladder experience will be worse.
The custom game scene isn't worth it either, not nearly as good or as memorable as WC3. ??? WC3's custom game section was horrible. You had that list with no structure. Different patches of the same map were floating around. If you created a lobby, you needed to configure your router to open certain ports. And to refresh your position on the open game list you needed to close all open spots and re-open them. More than once I accidentally kicked someone in this process who just joined. Then if you joined a game on a map or map version you didn't have, you needed to rely on the host not kicking you for downloading the map first.
Most WC3 custom maps were boring, just a handful maps were memorable. As it is in SC2.
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On January 04 2013 15:08 imBLIND wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 14:26 virgol wrote:On January 04 2013 12:22 Fencar wrote: I think that, maybe, everyone would want to want until the game is, you know, actually finished before jumping to conclusions. Really. 3 months left to go before release, perhaps you should wake up. As a Terran I feel cheated, and for the first time I'm considering cancelling my preorder of HotS. How could Blizzard, the company I used to love, fall so low? There's no magic, no love for the game. They lost the fundamental product and is just now desperately trying to board up a broken house - aka patching furiously. After totally conquering the RTS & MMO genres and more or less having monopoly, the businessmen has taken over leadership, trying to squeeze the most money possible out of the products instead of letting innovation and love for the products go first. The major design flaws are still here. Deathballs, warpin, unmicroable A-move units. Boring units. Immortals are strong and slow, tempests are strong and slow, colossi are strong and slow, brood lords are strong and slow, and guess what, thors and BC's are also strong and slow. Do they really have no imagination beyond the concept of strong and slow Deathball-units? What the hell were they thinking with, when they buffed early-game reapers? Why the hell are tanks still shit against Protoss? Why the heck is their solution to Terran a super-healing upgrade for the medivac? Do they think medivac play is underutilized...?! While I initially thought mothership core was a good thing; preventing allin-bonanzas in PvP and providing a little security for new tosses who wouldn't scout properly; it has of course turned the other way around - providing even deadlier blink-allins while providing invulnerability against any kind of early pokes and pressures. I won't even go into the filth of the new, extremely funny Tempest+Templar+Colossus+Carrier ball. I seriously hope they rediscover their love for the product and come up with some brilliant changes in 3 months. But I doubt it. While I do share your sentiments, you can't expect Blizzard to completely fix all the problems that people don't want to adapt to and the ones that are actually problems. A nd each person believes their opinions are right, now matter how unbiased each person tries to be. Although, I wish they actually tackled some of the problems rather than trying to go around it with just new units and abilities... And most people seem to be intent on buying HotS anyways, so I don't think that our voice will matter much to Blizzard, as much I wish it did. After all, we're just guinea pigs right now for the beta. Not saying that this game isn't worth the $40, but I don't think that investing the time into fixing a game, when the developers seemed to spend 2 years developing something that another team could've came up with in at least a year, is worth it. HotS just looks like a recycled WoL. This is kinda like Apple's marketing "scam" where they just tweak a few things, which in theory shouldn't be too difficult provided the original template is there, and sell the new product for an exorbitant amount of money. It's basically the only thing out there that's a quality product, yet, at the same time, we really wish there was a cheaper or better alternative. Even after Samsung and Google entered the market, Apple still holds more than 50% the smartphone/smartpad industry. The same idea holds for SC2. SC2 is obviously not $200, but what I would get from HotS would be the same as if I upgraded my iPhone 4 to an iPhone5. And I can save that $60-80 on 2 expansions for something else more worthwhile...I know for a fact I will not be able to play HotS for longer than I played D3 for, and I already wasted $60 on that shitty game. I don't want to feed this greedy machine anymore, and even if it means nothing to them, I'm not buying anymore Blizzard products until they start caring about their products.
This is wrong. There is a very general sentiment about which units are problematic and badly designed. (this basically involves all of the new units blizzard added to sc2, except from the stalker). Even Blizzard openly acknowledeges many of these problems.
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I don't really know what to expect from a Starcraft expansion. I never played SC1 and when I bought Age of Empires expansions it was like a couple of new civilizations and such things. It made the expansion seem exciting and new.
When it comes to Starcraft 2 I play nothing but multiplayer. I have played like 30 min of the campaign but all I can think of is "You could be practicing build orders/macro/micro which you actually have use of" so I don't care at all about the campaign HotS brings.
And to pay that money (The same amount as a totally new game...) for an expansion that will bring me 2 - 3 new units is kinda bullshit. I will do it tho' cause I wanna keep up with the scene :p Don't wanna play WoL when all the pros switched to HotS. But to me, I'd expect more in the multiplayer part.
But then again, seems like people in general wants SC2 to be more like SC:BW which kinda... messes up the idea of an expansion - To bring in new stuff to lengthen the life of the game.
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