[Champion] Nocturne - Page 15
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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YouGotNothin
United States907 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On April 13 2014 01:15 YouGotNothin wrote: So do you build like FF -> bruta -> tank or go straight to tank from FF? I don't really know just how much the damage output from it is yet, can it be built as a one-off damage item? I feel Triforce + FM is a very good build on him and well rounded. Generally, I feel you need to have an image in your head of how the teamfight is going to break out - and how your oppositions can stop you. Obviously, if they got tons of CC and dedicated "protector support" (think Janna) you will be having a very hard time so you might as well build tanky. I always have issue with tanky builds on Noc though - because his utility is really low, and if you build little damage he is pretty useless. Unfortunately, whether or not an aggressive build (usually involves Triforce, LW, and possibly another damage or damage/defense hybrid item) is effective depends on who you are fighting against. | ||
NpG)Explosive
France994 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On April 13 2014 04:02 NpG)Explosive wrote: Is triforce really that good on him? His cooldowns are quite high (10 sec minimum) and you usually use your first Q and E at about the same time. It makes him clear so fast it's absolutely retarded. Anyway, don't take my words for it - this is ninjaken's recommended first item too (after the jungle item). I have played 50+ games with this build and I feel it's really good. | ||
Senorcuidado
United States700 Posts
In a 5/0 scenario I can definitely see the value in rushing Trinity Force. That's what I do on Xin Zhao and Vi, and it turns them into monsters. The problem is that if I don't have gold coming in from kills and I try to force the TF, it takes too long and I end up too squishy in big fights. I tend to err on the side of caution and go Brutalizer and then tanky on those champions (also Wukong). 1337 gold is much cheaper than 3703, not too mention the power spike from Brutalizer feels better than Phage. So far I'm just describing hows things feel and my thought process, and I'm really not trying to convince anyone to build a certain way. I haven't tested everything yet. On Nocturne, I build the early Bilgewater Cutlass for the slow because it helps me stick for auto attacks and his built-in CC is pretty weak. My concerns over the cost of TF and the timing of getting tanky enough may not be so important to this champion. I've noticed that Nocturne is surprisingly good at getting out of dodge when things get rough. I mean, on a previous page people were debating whether flash is even necessary. That debate aside, maybe Nocturne can get away with being squishy until TF is finished. Trinity Force is about more than constant spellblade procs; The health and mana actually matter, the attack speed is great for Noc, the AD and crit are solid enough, and the Rage procs are good for repositioning during fights. I am hoping that some people who always rush TF can change my mind. Is that Phage power spike better than I give it credit for? Do you have trouble sticking to mobile targets? Maybe rage procs are enough, or you rely on your laners' cc, or you start Sheen? Do you skip TF if the other team just has too much potential to shut you down with their cc and raw damage? Nocturne is also so good at farming he probably doesn't need to worry about getting kills to afford a TF in a reasonable time... | ||
Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On April 13 2014 04:53 Sufficiency wrote: It makes him clear so fast it's absolutely retarded. Anyway, don't take my words for it - this is ninjaken's recommended first item too (after the jungle item). I have played 50+ games with this build and I feel it's really good. Why Triforce over Ghostblade or Blade of the Ruined King? I'm trying to envision why you'd want to fork out almost 4k for an item on a champ with rather high CDs and usually scales better with ASPD and more sticking power. I haven't given it a shot, but I can't envision why Triforce is a better option than the other two because the cost is so high. | ||
Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On April 15 2014 04:24 Roffles wrote: Why Triforce over Ghostblade or Blade of the Ruined King? I'm trying to envision why you'd want to fork out almost 4k for an item on a champ with rather high CDs and usually scales better with ASPD and more sticking power. I haven't given it a shot, but I can't envision why Triforce is a better option than the other two because the cost is so high. The reason I do not build BotRK, frankly, is that I am biased against that item. I think that item is more useful when you are trying to kill a tank. As Nocturne I feel flat damage is more valuable since generally I am more interested in going after squishies. The active is mediocre on him too. Ghostblade I am not sure. I am willing to experiment. | ||
ugapa
United States153 Posts
Ghostblade is good on nocturne but you usually can't get away with having more than one offensive item in a game where your team isn't dominating already, so I just stick to the stronger offensive items. (I played a ton of nocturne in ranked) | ||
Amui
Canada10558 Posts
On April 15 2014 17:09 ugapa wrote: I used triforce when I built spirit of the elder lizard and now i do BotRK because it works better with feral flare. Triforce isn't as good with feral flare because feral flare doesn't give flat AD which triforce takes advantage of. Ghostblade is good on nocturne but you usually can't get away with having more than one offensive item in a game where your team isn't dominating already, so I just stick to the stronger offensive items. (I played a ton of nocturne in ranked) triforce scales with base AD. Doesn't matter if you have bonus AD or not. Unless you're talking about relative values, in which case the math gets much trickier. | ||
Alaric
France45622 Posts
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NpG)Explosive
France994 Posts
On April 15 2014 19:08 Amui wrote: triforce scales with base AD. Doesn't matter if you have bonus AD or not. Unless you're talking about relative values, in which case the math gets much trickier. I would also add that both wriggle's lantern and feral flare give flat AD (12 and 15 ad respectivly). | ||
iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On April 16 2014 02:11 NpG)Explosive wrote: I would also add that both wriggle's lantern and feral flare give flat AD (12 and 15 ad respectivly). No, it scales with your base attack damage. Try it in a Custom; get 6 items. Triforce, and then 5x Bloodthirsters. Note your typical AA damage number, and your proc damage number. Then sell all your BT's and do it again, note your proc Damage number and typical AA damage number. The difference between will be the same. It doesn't matter how much bonus AD, it goes off of the AD you would have if totally naked, and it gives that damage to you on proc as bonus Physical damage. | ||
NpG)Explosive
France994 Posts
On April 17 2014 14:52 iCanada wrote: No, it scales with your base attack damage. Try it in a Custom; get 6 items. Triforce, and then 5x Bloodthirsters. Note your typical AA damage number, and your proc damage number. Then sell all your BT's and do it again, note your proc Damage number and typical AA damage number. The difference between will be the same. It doesn't matter how much bonus AD, it goes off of the AD you would have if totally naked, and it gives that damage to you on proc as bonus Physical damage. What's the difference between your post and what Amui said? | ||
iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
I thought you were advocating FF+TF because FF's flat AD increased TF damage. -.- | ||
General_Winter
United States719 Posts
What are folks here doing with Nocturne? I’ve been experimenting with him(it?) for the past few weeks off and on. I’ve been building Stalkers into devourer: Like the additional CC for ganks, and I’ve done some math and think devourer does more damage than warrior given his kit. It also synergizes better with umbra blades and with other items. Boots into mercury treads if they have lots of CC or Tabi if they lack CC and are mostly AD. Blade of the ruined king: More attack speed. More CC for ganks. Life steal for sustain, and good tank shred / on hit damage that works well with attack speed. Black cleaver: Mostly for the 20% CDR on an attack damage item. The stickiness from Phage ability and the 400 are also very nice. The armor shred is mostly just a bonus, but is nice if you are picking off a tank that has wandered out too far. (swap defense to get in needed order) Magic defense if I need it: I’ve been getting banshee’s vale but I have no idea if this is the right thing to get. Maybe Maw would be better? Any thoughts? AD defense if I need it: I’ve been getting randuins, again not sure if this is the right call. Extra damage if I didn’t need defense because I’m way ahead: I’ve been getting last whisper. If I don’t need either defensive item then after LW I’ve been going for ghostblade here. Again no idea if either of these are the correct 4th (or 5th) offensive item. For runes I’ve been getting attack speed marks and quints (math shows its more damage / higher DPS vs jungle monsters in the early levels). I get armor yellows, and for blues I get 3 CDR/level and 6 magic resist (probably should be MR/level but I don’t have them). This gets me to 40% CDR with blue and cleaver. What do people think of this? If you are doing something different please let me know what your reasoning is so that I can learn from it. Thanks | ||
GiftPflanZe
Germany623 Posts
Runes I also run as reds and quints and opt for scaling cd runes as my blue ones,giving me a 60sec cd on my ult later on. I like banshee on him cuz with your w if gives you two effective spellshields,but it depends on their comp,hextrinker into malw is really good if they have alot of burst where banshee is really nice vs ahri and these kind of champs. | ||
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