Putin maybe is bad, but hes in no way worse than the US or European governments.
Russians propaganda nowadays tolerate nationalism, hate and homophobia. And i believe that developed country shouldn't do this.
But generally, in my opinion this murder was made brutally by ultra right victim of Propaganda. And most interesting part now will be Putin's reaction to this murder. If he will have enough social and political power to stop this kind of behavior of citizens, or Russia is going in complete chaos and Putin is loosing his control over the country and people.
But that's just my opinion and truth might be different.
On March 01 2015 01:34 [Phantom] wrote: Reading this thread makes me see that there really is a lot of anti russian propaganda in europe and the US xD. Putin maybe is bad, but hes in no way worse than the US or erupean goverments.
I can understand when someone who doesn't have to access to media or speaks only Russian can make a comment like that. But when i see someone who uses Internet and obviously speaks English writes such a turd i actually do lose faith in humanity. Yes buddy, that evil Merkel scheming just now how to annex parts of Austria, all those anti-Obama TV stations being shut down left and right.
Use a fucking brain before you post, it doesn't hurt. And if you are clueless about something don't post about it.
'Everybody that doesn't agree with me is a fucking idiot and is wrong' 'The propaganda I drink in every day is much better than the propaganda you drink in every day'
Maybe you should use your brain.
edit: and lay off the personal attacks, this is a discussion forum where people can voice there own opinions on xy subject. If you can't handle somebody else having an opinion count to 10 before hitting 'post'.
Why would putin shot a critic, when he have that many rotting in jail? Well because putin is satan, and obama is the defender of the good. There is no propaganda in the west media, it's only in iran/russia/china/north korea the axe of evil, don't you remember?
I can't believe there are still people that doesn't know who is on the good side and who is on the bad side...
I think there's a fundamental misconception regarding how Russian propaganda works. It's not that they feed you a narrative that the Kremlin likes, that didn't even work in Soviet times, with the exception of inspiring countless jokes... Instead, they push out countless absurd theories (in this case, the different Kremlin controlled channels have used: Nemtsov's gf had an abortion, he was a CIA agent, muslims killed him because of Charlie Hebdo, the mafia killed him, Ukrainians killed him as a provocation). Each and every news piece is intentionally emotionally charged. This creates an atmosphere of mistrust, where you cannot trust anything you see in the media, you can't be sure of a single fact, or take any claim seriously. In the context of such mistrust, people are radicalized, the rational part of public discourse is diminished while emotional reactions are amplified. This makes it easier to rally people around an idea, such as an orthodox Russian war against Ukrainian nazis, and European homophiles. In the end, the facts don't matter, these are just emotionally unstable people reacting against a perceived injustice or threat, hoping to find a single stable point in a confusing world.
On March 01 2015 01:34 [Phantom] wrote: Reading this thread makes me see that there really is a lot of anti russian propaganda in europe and the US xD. Putin maybe is bad, but hes in no way worse than the US or erupean goverments.
I can understand when someone who doesn't have to access to media or speaks only Russian can make a comment like that. But when i see someone who uses Internet and obviously speaks English writes such a turd i actually do lose faith in humanity. Yes buddy, that evil Merkel scheming just now how to annex parts of Austria, all those anti-Obama TV stations being shut down left and right.
Use a fucking brain before you post, it doesn't hurt. And if you are clueless about something don't post about it.
'Everybody that doesn't agree with me is a fucking idiot and is wrong' 'The propaganda I drink in every day is much better than the propaganda you drink in every day'
Maybe you should use your brain.
edit: and lay off the personal attacks, this is a discussion forum where people can voice there own opinions on xy subject. If you can't handle somebody else having an opinion count to 10 before hitting 'post'.
his argument was solid though. freedom of critical expression, and not annexing neighbour nations are pretty big differences that totally contradict [Phantom]s original thesis.
How much truth is in the story that Nemtsov was "close" to proving damaging evidence on Putin in sparking the following;
he was working on a report which apparently included concrete evidence that Russia was directly involved in the separatist movement which erupted in Ukraine last year.
Seems a bit "movie" like the way Russia is run at the moment, pretty scary place to live.
On March 01 2015 01:34 [Phantom] wrote: Reading this thread makes me see that there really is a lot of anti russian propaganda in europe and the US xD. Putin maybe is bad, but hes in no way worse than the US or erupean goverments.
I can understand when someone who doesn't have to access to media or speaks only Russian can make a comment like that. But when i see someone who uses Internet and obviously speaks English writes such a turd i actually do lose faith in humanity. Yes buddy, that evil Merkel scheming just now how to annex parts of Austria, all those anti-Obama TV stations being shut down left and right.
Use a fucking brain before you post, it doesn't hurt. And if you are clueless about something don't post about it.
'Everybody that doesn't agree with me is a fucking idiot and is wrong' 'The propaganda I drink in every day is much better than the propaganda you drink in every day'
Maybe you should use your brain.
edit: and lay off the personal attacks, this is a discussion forum where people can voice there own opinions on xy subject. If you can't handle somebody else having an opinion count to 10 before hitting 'post'.
Shooting down of Malesian airplane with Netherlands citizens on it, creating totalitarian regime in Russia and then using the power of that regime to blackmail neighbours into submission (hi Georgia, hi Ukraine), arrests of political players that aren't in line with what Kremlin wants, events in Chechnya...
Compare that to Europe which just wants to freaking trade with everyone.
And i handle other oppinions just fine, but since i don't plan on being politicly correct i have no problem with calling it bullshit when it needs to be called. Now you can go back to whatever you were doing instead of trying to derail a topic that puts Russia in negative light. I know you are good at it, but shuu.
On March 01 2015 02:15 Pandemona wrote: How much truth is in the story that Nemtsov was "close" to proving damaging evidence on Putin in sparking the following;
he was working on a report which apparently included concrete evidence that Russia was directly involved in the separatist movement which erupted in Ukraine last year.
Seems a bit "movie" like the way Russia is run at the moment, pretty scary place to live.
Well, his partner promised to release that evidence, but something tells me that Nemtsov had the key part of it and after his death, his flat had been visited by police (usual act after most of killings, but hey, you see where i am going with this). With that, suddenly, Putin kills 3 birds with a single round: some fear for opposition, lower chance of actually serious sanctions (because, let's be honest, existing evidence is not damning enough) and masses can still shout that this was organized by USA/Ukraine/girl's ex-bf/whoever!
On March 01 2015 01:34 [Phantom] wrote: Reading this thread makes me see that there really is a lot of anti russian propaganda in europe and the US xD. Putin maybe is bad, but hes in no way worse than the US or erupean goverments.
I can understand when someone who doesn't have to access to media or speaks only Russian can make a comment like that. But when i see someone who uses Internet and obviously speaks English writes such a turd i actually do lose faith in humanity. Yes buddy, that evil Merkel scheming just now how to annex parts of Austria, all those anti-Obama TV stations being shut down left and right.
Use a fucking brain before you post, it doesn't hurt. And if you are clueless about something don't post about it.
'Everybody that doesn't agree with me is a fucking idiot and is wrong' 'The propaganda I drink in every day is much better than the propaganda you drink in every day'
Maybe you should use your brain.
edit: and lay off the personal attacks, this is a discussion forum where people can voice there own opinions on xy subject. If you can't handle somebody else having an opinion count to 10 before hitting 'post'.
Shooting down of Malesian airplane with Netherlands citizens on it, creating totalitarian regime in Russia and then using the power of that regime to blackmail neighbours into submission (hi Georgia, hi Ukraine), arrests of political players that aren't in line with what Kremlin wants, events in Chechnya...
Compare that to Europe which just wants to freaking trade with everyone.
And i handle other oppinions just fine, but since i don't plan on being politicly correct i have no problem with calling it bullshit when it needs to be called. Now you can go back to whatever you were doing instead of trying to derail a topic that puts Russia in negative shadow. I know you are good at it, but shuu.
1. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest Russia proper had anything to do with the downing of MH17 other than nato media spamming 'appeals to emotion' articles backed by air, state department pictures from trial program versions of satellite maps with lines drawn on them in paint without any source as to how those lines got there. As well as shady/blurry youtube video's either not geolocated a full year after release or proven to be in territory under Kiev government control. edit: oh, and twitter...
The only country frequently asking for updates regarding MH17 are Russia and Malasia, but on August 8, Ukraine, the Netherlands, Australia and Belgium signed a non-disclosure agreement pertaining to data obtained during the investigation into the causes of the crash of Malaysian Airlines MH17, so we won't know what happened most likely ever.
2. Georgia invaded South Ossetia, fact. Another fun fact: the wanted criminal Sakashvili now works for the Ukranian government, his appointment was strongly condemned by the Georgian government because Sakashvili is a criminal and a traitor of his own people.
Now that thats over with we can move onto some other lies being spread in this thread. Have any of you ever watched Russian television? Really watched Russian news? If you actually had you would know that they constantly report about extremely negative events regarding Russia. The fall of the rouble was widely covered and blamed on the incompetence of the government in dealing with the situation. There are vastly more political talk ect. shows than in western countries, in which all political view points get a say and the Russian public in general is very much more politically self-aware than their western counterparts.
On March 01 2015 01:34 [Phantom] wrote: Reading this thread makes me see that there really is a lot of anti russian propaganda in europe and the US xD. Putin maybe is bad, but hes in no way worse than the US or erupean goverments.
Also, i agree with the fact that killing him isn't the best idea from the russian goverment perspective (and even if they did it, itwasn't the best idea). Killing the one who opose you can just make it easier for people to say "oh look, they are more tyranic than what we thought, lets get them out of the goverment". That has happened through all history on different contries, so killing your opposers isn't the wiset thing to do, but who knows really.
RIP Boris Nemtsov
Yeah sure he is in no way worse than european governements or the US... so I guess Obama will still be president in 10 years?
Putin is now at 86% approval rating, Obama has like what? 20%?
Nemtsov was a non-factor of a non-factor in modern Russian politics, and was lately way more involved in business than politics. Wait for the investigation to finish then point fingers people, hysterical CNN tier speculating helps nobody. Seeing as how he was energy minister in Russia during the Yeltsin regime there is a long list of shady people he was in contact with.
Well powerful shady people at the top don't hire amateurs to do the job. The killing was done in a walking proximity to Kremlin, where hunders of cameras are around. If this is a business matter, all of the investigative power of FSB will be thrown at it to prove that Putin is clean. Do you think the assassin and the person behind it would want that and even make the investigators' job easy? This looks like a stupid hate crime right now, and there is a clear cut version of why he would be hated.
P.S. I find it funny that you've used "Yeltsin regime", yet I've never seen you use "Putin regime". You man are so freaking biased.
On March 01 2015 01:34 [Phantom] wrote: Reading this thread makes me see that there really is a lot of anti russian propaganda in europe and the US xD. Putin maybe is bad, but hes in no way worse than the US or erupean goverments.
Also, i agree with the fact that killing him isn't the best idea from the russian goverment perspective (and even if they did it, itwasn't the best idea). Killing the one who opose you can just make it easier for people to say "oh look, they are more tyranic than what we thought, lets get them out of the goverment". That has happened through all history on different contries, so killing your opposers isn't the wiset thing to do, but who knows really.
RIP Boris Nemtsov
Yeah sure he is in no way worse than european governements or the US... so I guess Obama will still be president in 10 years?
Putin is now at 86% approval rating, Obama has like what? 20%?
Nemtsov was a non-factor of a non-factor in modern Russian politics, and was lately way more involved in business than politics. Wait for the investigation to finish then point fingers people, hysterical CNN tier speculating helps nobody. Seeing as how he was energy minister in Russia during the Yeltsin regime there is a long list of shady people he was in contact with.
Well powerful shady people at the top don't hire amateurs to do the job. The killing was done in a walking proximity to Kremlin, where hunders of cameras are around. If this is a business matter, all of the investigative power of FSB will be thrown at it to prove that Putin is clean. Do you think the assassin and the person behind it would want that and even make their job easy? This looks like a stupid hate crime right now, and there is a clear cut version of why he would be hated.
Nobody cared enough about him (politically) to kill him. That's like saying if Alex Jones got killed tomorrow Obama did it because he 'knew everything' and was threatening to expose it.
On March 01 2015 01:34 [Phantom] wrote: Reading this thread makes me see that there really is a lot of anti russian propaganda in europe and the US xD. Putin maybe is bad, but hes in no way worse than the US or erupean goverments.
Also, i agree with the fact that killing him isn't the best idea from the russian goverment perspective (and even if they did it, itwasn't the best idea). Killing the one who opose you can just make it easier for people to say "oh look, they are more tyranic than what we thought, lets get them out of the goverment". That has happened through all history on different contries, so killing your opposers isn't the wiset thing to do, but who knows really.
RIP Boris Nemtsov
Yeah sure he is in no way worse than european governements or the US... so I guess Obama will still be president in 10 years?
Putin is now at 86% approval rating, Obama has like what? 20%?
Nemtsov was a non-factor of a non-factor in modern Russian politics, and was lately way more involved in business than politics. Wait for the investigation to finish then point fingers people, hysterical CNN tier speculating helps nobody. Seeing as how he was energy minister in Russia during the Yeltsin regime there is a long list of shady people he was in contact with.
Well powerful shady people at the top don't hire amateurs to do the job. The killing was done in a walking proximity to Kremlin, where hunders of cameras are around. If this is a business matter, all of the investigative power of FSB will be thrown at it to prove that Putin is clean. Do you think the assassin and the person behind it would want that and even make their job easy? This looks like a stupid hate crime right now, and there is a clear cut version of why he would be hated.
Nobody cared enough about him (politically) to kill him. That's like saying if Alex Jones got killed tomorrow Obama did it because he 'knew everything' and was threatening to expose it.
Nobody? Are you friends with every political psycho in Russia?
On March 01 2015 01:34 [Phantom] wrote: Reading this thread makes me see that there really is a lot of anti russian propaganda in europe and the US xD. Putin maybe is bad, but hes in no way worse than the US or erupean goverments.
Also, i agree with the fact that killing him isn't the best idea from the russian goverment perspective (and even if they did it, itwasn't the best idea). Killing the one who opose you can just make it easier for people to say "oh look, they are more tyranic than what we thought, lets get them out of the goverment". That has happened through all history on different contries, so killing your opposers isn't the wiset thing to do, but who knows really.
RIP Boris Nemtsov
Yeah sure he is in no way worse than european governements or the US... so I guess Obama will still be president in 10 years?
Putin is now at 86% approval rating, Obama has like what? 20%?
Nemtsov was a non-factor of a non-factor in modern Russian politics, and was lately way more involved in business than politics. Wait for the investigation to finish then point fingers people, hysterical CNN tier speculating helps nobody. Seeing as how he was energy minister in Russia during the Yeltsin regime there is a long list of shady people he was in contact with.
Well powerful shady people at the top don't hire amateurs to do the job. The killing was done in a walking proximity to Kremlin, where hunders of cameras are around. If this is a business matter, all of the investigative power of FSB will be thrown at it to prove that Putin is clean. Do you think the assassin and the person behind it would want that and even make their job easy? This looks like a stupid hate crime right now, and there is a clear cut version of why he would be hated.
Nobody cared enough about him (politically) to kill him. That's like saying if Alex Jones got killed tomorrow Obama did it because he 'knew everything' and was threatening to expose it.
Nobody? Are you friends with every political psycho in Russia?
I meant nobody in a political sense, politically he was less than a non-threat. I would have more of a chance of breaking 1% of vote in the Australian elections than Nemtsov in the Russian ones.
It was highly planned so its maybe it could be one of those smart crazy people (not a crazy-crazy one). Though I don't see why a smart person would go to all this trouble to take out an extremely fringe politician.
edit: which is why the 'business' angle is probably the most logical.
Seeing as how he was energy minister in Russia during the Yeltsin regime there is a long list of shady people he was in contact with.
The same Yeltsin regime that put Putin in power to ensure that nothing bad will happen to "The Family"?
I liked your stuff about Georgia and Malaysian plane, mind writing about this a bit? Also a bit about Putin enterprises in St. Petersburg, would really love to know what is official line about that. Don't forget to explain how a guy that was basicly responsible for a 100 million USD scam becomes a Prime Minister in a democratic country.
On March 01 2015 01:34 [Phantom] wrote: Reading this thread makes me see that there really is a lot of anti russian propaganda in europe and the US xD. Putin maybe is bad, but hes in no way worse than the US or erupean goverments.
Also, i agree with the fact that killing him isn't the best idea from the russian goverment perspective (and even if they did it, itwasn't the best idea). Killing the one who opose you can just make it easier for people to say "oh look, they are more tyranic than what we thought, lets get them out of the goverment". That has happened through all history on different contries, so killing your opposers isn't the wiset thing to do, but who knows really.
RIP Boris Nemtsov
Yeah sure he is in no way worse than european governements or the US... so I guess Obama will still be president in 10 years?
Putin is now at 86% approval rating, Obama has like what? 20%?
Nemtsov was a non-factor of a non-factor in modern Russian politics, and was lately way more involved in business than politics. Wait for the investigation to finish then point fingers people, hysterical CNN tier speculating helps nobody. Seeing as how he was energy minister in Russia during the Yeltsin regime there is a long list of shady people he was in contact with.
Well powerful shady people at the top don't hire amateurs to do the job. The killing was done in a walking proximity to Kremlin, where hunders of cameras are around. If this is a business matter, all of the investigative power of FSB will be thrown at it to prove that Putin is clean. Do you think the assassin and the person behind it would want that and even make their job easy? This looks like a stupid hate crime right now, and there is a clear cut version of why he would be hated.
Nobody cared enough about him (politically) to kill him. That's like saying if Alex Jones got killed tomorrow Obama did it because he 'knew everything' and was threatening to expose it.
Nobody? Are you friends with every political psycho in Russia?
I meant nobody in a political sense, politically he was less than a non-threat. I would have more of a chance of breaking 1% of vote in the Australian elections than Nemtsov in the Russian ones.
It was highly planned so its maybe it could be one of those smart crazy people (not a crazy-crazy one). Though I don't see why a smart person would go to all this trouble to take out an extremely fringe politician.
edit: which is why the 'business' angle is probably the most logical.
to cut the long story short: do you think there is no hate atmosphere towards the so-called "fifth column" in Russia?
Seeing as how he was energy minister in Russia during the Yeltsin regime there is a long list of shady people he was in contact with.
The same Yeltsin regime that put Putin in power to ensure that nothing bad will happen to "The Family"?
I liked your stuff about Georgia and Malaysian plane, mind writing about this a bit? Also a bit about Putin enterprises in St. Petersburg, would really love to know what is official line about that. Don't forget to explain how a guy that was basicly responsible for a 100 million USD scam becomes a Prime Minister in a democratic country.
We are not really aloud to talk about the Ukraine situation (apart from brief mentions in context) on TL so I'm afraid I can not elaborate. My one post should be more than enough to point anybody that wants to know more about those subjects without derailing the thread in the right direction... just type it into google, you will find everything you need
Please don't start discussing MH17 and the like. That's exactly the kind of derailing that will get this thread closed. And the discussion will be terrible.
While I don't believe Putin had Nemtsov killed at the time (there's no real evidence yet), the argument for why he is a threat is being misrepresented. Anyone that isn't part of "systemic opposition", i.e., people in the pay of the govt. but pretending to be a (placeholder) opposition for show, is going to be entirely outside of the political system. In this it's similar to Ukraine.
What Putin truly fears is a Ukrainian style Orange revolution, or Maidan, in which dissatisfaction leads to massive public unrest and his ousting. And Nemtsov was one of the most prominent organizers of different public demonstrations. Just 2h before his death, he spoke at Echo Moscow, calling a demonstration for tomorrow, demanding free elections. This demonstration will now mourn his death.
Seeing as how he was energy minister in Russia during the Yeltsin regime there is a long list of shady people he was in contact with.
The same Yeltsin regime that put Putin in power to ensure that nothing bad will happen to "The Family"?
I liked your stuff about Georgia and Malaysian plane, mind writing about this a bit? Also a bit about Putin enterprises in St. Petersburg, would really love to know what is official line about that. Don't forget to explain how a guy that was basicly responsible for a 100 million USD scam becomes a Prime Minister in a democratic country.
We are not really aloud to talk about the Ukraine situation (apart from brief mentions in context) on TL so I'm afraid I can not elaborate. My one post should be more than enough to point anybody that wants to know more about those subjects without derailing the thread in the right direction... just type it into google, you will find everything you need
But i'm not asking you about Ukraine situation here my friend. It's about St.Petersburg and Putin and that food transport of some sort? Let's clear those filihy suspicions of Putin ever being even remotly connected to illegal activity or anything in the likes of it by just showing how crystal his past it. Don't you agree?
EDIT: To make it clear, i don't belive Putin was directly responsible for killing of Nemtsov. I do belive tho, and it's oppinion that the hatred towards opposition if Russia could lead to some kind of "rightful act" of killing a traitor by some overactive citizen. Or it could be just mobsters stuff, or his recent report about financial status of Duma politicians that triggered the trigger. Maybe the investigation will clear some doubts but i would't count on it too hard.