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On December 11 2016 01:54 phantomlancer23 wrote: Dustin failed in hots and sc2 i dont expect anything good from him nor i think they ll give him anything difficult and important again. He did fine with HoTS.
The bigger problem with HoTS is that it missed the MOBA rush in 2011
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On December 18 2016 02:59 lestye wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2016 23:04 B-royal wrote:On December 14 2016 10:10 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:On December 14 2016 08:10 lestye wrote:On December 14 2016 05:32 ICanFlyLow wrote: Blizzard dont make quality games anymore who cares, they've completely changed their buisness model from making quality games that are addictive and enjoyable for all the right reasons to getting ppl hooked on meaningless crap thats overmarketed to make quick bucks Feel.free to make a thread speculating about the worthy company's upcoming games, the company you feel makes quality games and have the business model of making quality games that are addictive and enjoyable for all the right reasons. Shh.. its not like Blizzard created 4 great franchises spanning decades. Of course they make shit games, they've been around for so long they made 4 shit franchises that have garnered billions of revenue. /sarcasm I agree, so many here want to trash on Blizz, but their track record has been great and isn't getting worse. With Overwatch under their belts, they stand to rule the esports scene or at least have a huge presence. Even Storm has quite a lot of players. Not 20 million, but in the millions I would estimate. So if ICanFlyLow honestly thinks Blizz doesn't care, I would challenge him that they care a lot. In every game they make they care. And if they can't care for it, they will not release it. Look at Titan Sc2 is disillusioning. Diablo 3 was a disaster at launch. WoW has been leaking subscribers steadily, maybe legion has finally managed to swing this around? Heroes of the storm has less than 1/10th the amount of viewers of LOL or DOTA and that's on a good day. HOTS had a rather abysmally small player base, maybe it's growing though lately? Hearthstone can be considered a success in terms of people that play it, doesn't necessarily means it's a good game. After all, millions of people play candy crush and angry birds and I don't consider those good games. Overwatch is really bland in my opinion. Let's see how successful of an eSport it becomes. Compare this to the quality and legacies of starcraft brood war, warcraft 3 the frozen throne, and vanilla wow etc. I know which Blizzard I would choose to develop my next game. What studios DO you like? What studios are you going to be interested in their next big game? What studios do you think make the best multiplayer games since apparently Blizzard is terrible and can't outdo the best games of all time so they belong in the trash. Also Is your argument really that # of viewers dictate the quality of game it is? I guarantee you, the top of Twitch is not going to reflect anyone's favorite games of all time. While maybe if I don't think the games are as amazing as the games they released in 1998-2004, they're still amazing games. and they're the most likely company to make a game I'll really enjoy. Most people probably feel this way hence this thread. Unless you want to argue how you think Sega/Capcom/Gearbox/iD/Epic make way better games and we're just fanboys.
I did not only like, but loved, the old blizzard that developed warcraft 3 tft and brood war. I grew up on playing the frozen throne. I was essentially a one-game gamer. I was already playing reign of chaos back in 2002, offline only. And then when the frozen throne came, I bought it and continued playing offline some more before I finally ventured to playing online, probably around the time when I entered high school back in 2003 I believe. I played this game for a solid 9 years or so. Then I got suckered in by the moba hype and started playing Heroes of Newerth, which was an excellent moba until making money got more important than releasing proper new heroes and balancing the old ones.
Am I obliged to follow other studios? I don't particularly like any games that come out nowadays. I'm mainly an RTS gamer anyway and have been waiting more than a decade for the next genre-defining RTS. Unfortunately it never came, I grew tired of Sc2 after a mere 2 months of playing. The deathball phenomenon, the forced macro mechanics, the horrible maps, frustrating game play such as forcefields and reapers, the list goes on really. So I went back to playing Heroes of Newerth for a year or two after which I took a break from gaming during the final years of university. After I graduated, I wanted to play an RTS game again but I didn't want to go back to warcraft 3. As amazing a game it was, I realized I didn't want to deal with some of the less fun mechanics again (Cyclone, ever lasting slow,...). Besides, I was ready for a new challenge, so I started looking into brood war. Haven't looked back since
And yeah, you misunderstood me. Maybe I didn't make my message clear enough. I don't think viewer numbers or even player base correlates with a successful or good game. I'm playing brood war after all, which I believe to be the best RTS ever, which only gets about a peak of 450 players on iCCup nowadays (Korea's still going really strong though). My argument was that Hearthstone can be seen as a success when you look solely at viewer numbers. But when you actually start to look at gameplay, maybe it can't hold up (have never played it to be honest, so I won't make any statements about it!).
Finally, I'm not needlessly bashing blizzard. What prompted me to write my previous response was someone claiming blizzard's track record is still (as) great (as ever), which it obviously isn't. The period of 1998-2005 was their golden era in terms of producing quality games, as far as I can tell.
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On December 18 2016 21:43 B-royal wrote: .... I grew up on playing the frozen throne. I was essentially a one-game gamer. I was already playing reign of chaos back in 2002, offline only. And then when the frozen throne came, I bought it and continued playing offline some more before I finally ventured to playing online, probably around the time when I entered high school back in 2003 I believe. I played this game for a solid 9 years or so. .... I don't particularly like any games that come out nowadays. I'm mainly an RTS gamer anyway and have been waiting more than a decade for the next genre-defining RTS. Unfortunately it never came, I grew tired of Sc2 after a mere 2 months of playing...
sounds to me like you're just bored of video games. you basically don't like video games and its impressive Blizzard got you to play their games.
i'm 29. i love playing Overwatch but it does not mean nearly as much to me as my favourite games did when i was 15. its the cycle of life. kittens play ... adult cats hunt. at 29 real life is more satisfying than video games and i'm not expecting Blizzard to change that for me.
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On December 18 2016 21:43 B-royal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2016 02:59 lestye wrote:On December 17 2016 23:04 B-royal wrote:On December 14 2016 10:10 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:On December 14 2016 08:10 lestye wrote:On December 14 2016 05:32 ICanFlyLow wrote: Blizzard dont make quality games anymore who cares, they've completely changed their buisness model from making quality games that are addictive and enjoyable for all the right reasons to getting ppl hooked on meaningless crap thats overmarketed to make quick bucks Feel.free to make a thread speculating about the worthy company's upcoming games, the company you feel makes quality games and have the business model of making quality games that are addictive and enjoyable for all the right reasons. Shh.. its not like Blizzard created 4 great franchises spanning decades. Of course they make shit games, they've been around for so long they made 4 shit franchises that have garnered billions of revenue. /sarcasm I agree, so many here want to trash on Blizz, but their track record has been great and isn't getting worse. With Overwatch under their belts, they stand to rule the esports scene or at least have a huge presence. Even Storm has quite a lot of players. Not 20 million, but in the millions I would estimate. So if ICanFlyLow honestly thinks Blizz doesn't care, I would challenge him that they care a lot. In every game they make they care. And if they can't care for it, they will not release it. Look at Titan Sc2 is disillusioning. Diablo 3 was a disaster at launch. WoW has been leaking subscribers steadily, maybe legion has finally managed to swing this around? Heroes of the storm has less than 1/10th the amount of viewers of LOL or DOTA and that's on a good day. HOTS had a rather abysmally small player base, maybe it's growing though lately? Hearthstone can be considered a success in terms of people that play it, doesn't necessarily means it's a good game. After all, millions of people play candy crush and angry birds and I don't consider those good games. Overwatch is really bland in my opinion. Let's see how successful of an eSport it becomes. Compare this to the quality and legacies of starcraft brood war, warcraft 3 the frozen throne, and vanilla wow etc. I know which Blizzard I would choose to develop my next game. What studios DO you like? What studios are you going to be interested in their next big game? What studios do you think make the best multiplayer games since apparently Blizzard is terrible and can't outdo the best games of all time so they belong in the trash. Also Is your argument really that # of viewers dictate the quality of game it is? I guarantee you, the top of Twitch is not going to reflect anyone's favorite games of all time. While maybe if I don't think the games are as amazing as the games they released in 1998-2004, they're still amazing games. and they're the most likely company to make a game I'll really enjoy. Most people probably feel this way hence this thread. Unless you want to argue how you think Sega/Capcom/Gearbox/iD/Epic make way better games and we're just fanboys. I did not only like, but loved, the old blizzard that developed warcraft 3 tft and brood war. I grew up on playing the frozen throne. I was essentially a one-game gamer. I was already playing reign of chaos back in 2002, offline only. And then when the frozen throne came, I bought it and continued playing offline some more before I finally ventured to playing online, probably around the time when I entered high school back in 2003 I believe. I played this game for a solid 9 years or so. Then I got suckered in by the moba hype and started playing Heroes of Newerth, which was an excellent moba until making money got more important than releasing proper new heroes and balancing the old ones. Am I obliged to follow other studios? I don't particularly like any games that come out nowadays. I'm mainly an RTS gamer anyway and have been waiting more than a decade for the next genre-defining RTS. Unfortunately it never came, I grew tired of Sc2 after a mere 2 months of playing. The deathball phenomenon, the forced macro mechanics, the horrible maps, frustrating game play such as forcefields and reapers, the list goes on really. So I went back to playing Heroes of Newerth for a year or two after which I took a break from gaming during the final years of university. After I graduated, I wanted to play an RTS game again but I didn't want to go back to warcraft 3. As amazing a game it was, I realized I didn't want to deal with some of the less fun mechanics again (Cyclone, ever lasting slow,...). Besides, I was ready for a new challenge, so I started looking into brood war. Haven't looked back since And yeah, you misunderstood me. Maybe I didn't make my message clear enough. I don't think viewer numbers or even player base correlates with a successful or good game. I'm playing brood war after all, which I believe to be the best RTS ever, which only gets about a peak of 450 players on iCCup nowadays (Korea's still going really strong though). My argument was that Hearthstone can be seen as a success when you look solely at viewer numbers. But when you actually start to look at gameplay, maybe it can't hold up (have never played it to be honest, so I won't make any statements about it!). Finally, I'm not needlessly bashing blizzard. What prompted me to write my previous response was someone claiming blizzard's track record is still (as) great (as ever), which it obviously isn't. The period of 1998-2005 was their golden era in terms of producing quality games, as far as I can tell. If you don't count wc2 into their golden era then you have no idea, sorry. Wc2 was the direct predecessor of sc1 in pretty much everything. And what you describe is the typical "in the time I played a lot back when i was a teen, games were better"-mentality. Diablo 2 and knights of the old republic will forever have a special place in my heart. But I'm not blind enough to think that they'd sell if the companies released them nowadays. Making games was easier back in the day.
On December 18 2016 18:50 bluzi wrote:WHAT ABOUT WARCRAFT 4!!!! this game is a mandatory 1 week work free I am not looking for anything revolutionary just WC4 !!!!! With sc2 being dead in the water relatively shortly after LotV, I doubt they are going to touch RTS for a while.
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Yeah first-person seems to have worked well for them with the popularity of Overwatch, so I think it makes sense to try to get lightning to hit twice.
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On December 18 2016 22:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2016 21:43 B-royal wrote: .... I grew up on playing the frozen throne. I was essentially a one-game gamer. I was already playing reign of chaos back in 2002, offline only. And then when the frozen throne came, I bought it and continued playing offline some more before I finally ventured to playing online, probably around the time when I entered high school back in 2003 I believe. I played this game for a solid 9 years or so. .... I don't particularly like any games that come out nowadays. I'm mainly an RTS gamer anyway and have been waiting more than a decade for the next genre-defining RTS. Unfortunately it never came, I grew tired of Sc2 after a mere 2 months of playing... sounds to me like you're just bored of video games. you basically don't like video games and its impressive Blizzard got you to play their games. i'm 29. i love playing Overwatch but it does not mean nearly as much to me as my favourite games did when i was 15. its the cycle of life. kittens play ... adult cats hunt. at 29 real life is more satisfying than video games and i'm not expecting Blizzard to change that for me.
Wow, JimmiJRaynor being wrong again. Who could have thought. I'm not bored of video games clearly cause I play brood war quite fervently.
On December 18 2016 23:38 Archeon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2016 21:43 B-royal wrote:On December 18 2016 02:59 lestye wrote:On December 17 2016 23:04 B-royal wrote:On December 14 2016 10:10 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:On December 14 2016 08:10 lestye wrote:On December 14 2016 05:32 ICanFlyLow wrote: Blizzard dont make quality games anymore who cares, they've completely changed their buisness model from making quality games that are addictive and enjoyable for all the right reasons to getting ppl hooked on meaningless crap thats overmarketed to make quick bucks Feel.free to make a thread speculating about the worthy company's upcoming games, the company you feel makes quality games and have the business model of making quality games that are addictive and enjoyable for all the right reasons. Shh.. its not like Blizzard created 4 great franchises spanning decades. Of course they make shit games, they've been around for so long they made 4 shit franchises that have garnered billions of revenue. /sarcasm I agree, so many here want to trash on Blizz, but their track record has been great and isn't getting worse. With Overwatch under their belts, they stand to rule the esports scene or at least have a huge presence. Even Storm has quite a lot of players. Not 20 million, but in the millions I would estimate. So if ICanFlyLow honestly thinks Blizz doesn't care, I would challenge him that they care a lot. In every game they make they care. And if they can't care for it, they will not release it. Look at Titan Sc2 is disillusioning. Diablo 3 was a disaster at launch. WoW has been leaking subscribers steadily, maybe legion has finally managed to swing this around? Heroes of the storm has less than 1/10th the amount of viewers of LOL or DOTA and that's on a good day. HOTS had a rather abysmally small player base, maybe it's growing though lately? Hearthstone can be considered a success in terms of people that play it, doesn't necessarily means it's a good game. After all, millions of people play candy crush and angry birds and I don't consider those good games. Overwatch is really bland in my opinion. Let's see how successful of an eSport it becomes. Compare this to the quality and legacies of starcraft brood war, warcraft 3 the frozen throne, and vanilla wow etc. I know which Blizzard I would choose to develop my next game. What studios DO you like? What studios are you going to be interested in their next big game? What studios do you think make the best multiplayer games since apparently Blizzard is terrible and can't outdo the best games of all time so they belong in the trash. Also Is your argument really that # of viewers dictate the quality of game it is? I guarantee you, the top of Twitch is not going to reflect anyone's favorite games of all time. While maybe if I don't think the games are as amazing as the games they released in 1998-2004, they're still amazing games. and they're the most likely company to make a game I'll really enjoy. Most people probably feel this way hence this thread. Unless you want to argue how you think Sega/Capcom/Gearbox/iD/Epic make way better games and we're just fanboys. I did not only like, but loved, the old blizzard that developed warcraft 3 tft and brood war. I grew up on playing the frozen throne. I was essentially a one-game gamer. I was already playing reign of chaos back in 2002, offline only. And then when the frozen throne came, I bought it and continued playing offline some more before I finally ventured to playing online, probably around the time when I entered high school back in 2003 I believe. I played this game for a solid 9 years or so. Then I got suckered in by the moba hype and started playing Heroes of Newerth, which was an excellent moba until making money got more important than releasing proper new heroes and balancing the old ones. Am I obliged to follow other studios? I don't particularly like any games that come out nowadays. I'm mainly an RTS gamer anyway and have been waiting more than a decade for the next genre-defining RTS. Unfortunately it never came, I grew tired of Sc2 after a mere 2 months of playing. The deathball phenomenon, the forced macro mechanics, the horrible maps, frustrating game play such as forcefields and reapers, the list goes on really. So I went back to playing Heroes of Newerth for a year or two after which I took a break from gaming during the final years of university. After I graduated, I wanted to play an RTS game again but I didn't want to go back to warcraft 3. As amazing a game it was, I realized I didn't want to deal with some of the less fun mechanics again (Cyclone, ever lasting slow,...). Besides, I was ready for a new challenge, so I started looking into brood war. Haven't looked back since And yeah, you misunderstood me. Maybe I didn't make my message clear enough. I don't think viewer numbers or even player base correlates with a successful or good game. I'm playing brood war after all, which I believe to be the best RTS ever, which only gets about a peak of 450 players on iCCup nowadays (Korea's still going really strong though). My argument was that Hearthstone can be seen as a success when you look solely at viewer numbers. But when you actually start to look at gameplay, maybe it can't hold up (have never played it to be honest, so I won't make any statements about it!). Finally, I'm not needlessly bashing blizzard. What prompted me to write my previous response was someone claiming blizzard's track record is still (as) great (as ever), which it obviously isn't. The period of 1998-2005 was their golden era in terms of producing quality games, as far as I can tell. If you don't count wc2 into their golden era then you have no idea, sorry. Wc2 was the direct predecessor of sc1 in pretty much everything. And what you describe is the typical "in the time I played a lot back when i was a teen, games were better"-mentality. Diablo 2 and knights of the old republic will forever have a special place in my heart. But I'm not blind enough to think that they'd sell if the companies released them nowadays. Making games was easier back in the day.
I never played wc2, so it would be unfair of me to group it with the rest. Anyway, I did give it a try a couple of months ago but it couldn't really capture my attention.
And again, you're wrong. I am playing BROOD WAR NOW. I never played brood war before, and now I consider it the best game I've ever played! Stop it with the nostalgia argument, gets really tiring after a while.
Anyway, I don't want to keep derailing the thread, so feel free to send me PMs if you care enough.
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I tried WC2 after playing BW. Despite how I can appreciate its contribution to gaming, WC2 has not aged well, and I honestly wouldn't recommend people try to play it except for nostalgia.
I think when talking about gaming companies' futures it's important to separate games that are "good" into exactly why they're good: for instance, some games are important to their genre like D1, but haven't always aged well - just like D1. Was it a bad game contextually? Probably not, but since I played it without that specific context, it's hard for me to see any reason to play it.
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On December 18 2016 21:43 B-royal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2016 02:59 lestye wrote:On December 17 2016 23:04 B-royal wrote:On December 14 2016 10:10 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:On December 14 2016 08:10 lestye wrote:On December 14 2016 05:32 ICanFlyLow wrote: Blizzard dont make quality games anymore who cares, they've completely changed their buisness model from making quality games that are addictive and enjoyable for all the right reasons to getting ppl hooked on meaningless crap thats overmarketed to make quick bucks Feel.free to make a thread speculating about the worthy company's upcoming games, the company you feel makes quality games and have the business model of making quality games that are addictive and enjoyable for all the right reasons. Shh.. its not like Blizzard created 4 great franchises spanning decades. Of course they make shit games, they've been around for so long they made 4 shit franchises that have garnered billions of revenue. /sarcasm I agree, so many here want to trash on Blizz, but their track record has been great and isn't getting worse. With Overwatch under their belts, they stand to rule the esports scene or at least have a huge presence. Even Storm has quite a lot of players. Not 20 million, but in the millions I would estimate. So if ICanFlyLow honestly thinks Blizz doesn't care, I would challenge him that they care a lot. In every game they make they care. And if they can't care for it, they will not release it. Look at Titan Sc2 is disillusioning. Diablo 3 was a disaster at launch. WoW has been leaking subscribers steadily, maybe legion has finally managed to swing this around? Heroes of the storm has less than 1/10th the amount of viewers of LOL or DOTA and that's on a good day. HOTS had a rather abysmally small player base, maybe it's growing though lately? Hearthstone can be considered a success in terms of people that play it, doesn't necessarily means it's a good game. After all, millions of people play candy crush and angry birds and I don't consider those good games. Overwatch is really bland in my opinion. Let's see how successful of an eSport it becomes. Compare this to the quality and legacies of starcraft brood war, warcraft 3 the frozen throne, and vanilla wow etc. I know which Blizzard I would choose to develop my next game. What studios DO you like? What studios are you going to be interested in their next big game? What studios do you think make the best multiplayer games since apparently Blizzard is terrible and can't outdo the best games of all time so they belong in the trash. Also Is your argument really that # of viewers dictate the quality of game it is? I guarantee you, the top of Twitch is not going to reflect anyone's favorite games of all time. While maybe if I don't think the games are as amazing as the games they released in 1998-2004, they're still amazing games. and they're the most likely company to make a game I'll really enjoy. Most people probably feel this way hence this thread. Unless you want to argue how you think Sega/Capcom/Gearbox/iD/Epic make way better games and we're just fanboys. I did not only like, but loved, the old blizzard that developed warcraft 3 tft and brood war. I grew up on playing the frozen throne. I was essentially a one-game gamer. I was already playing reign of chaos back in 2002, offline only. And then when the frozen throne came, I bought it and continued playing offline some more before I finally ventured to playing online, probably around the time when I entered high school back in 2003 I believe. I played this game for a solid 9 years or so. Then I got suckered in by the moba hype and started playing Heroes of Newerth, which was an excellent moba until making money got more important than releasing proper new heroes and balancing the old ones. Am I obliged to follow other studios? I don't particularly like any games that come out nowadays. I'm mainly an RTS gamer anyway and have been waiting more than a decade for the next genre-defining RTS. Unfortunately it never came, I grew tired of Sc2 after a mere 2 months of playing. The deathball phenomenon, the forced macro mechanics, the horrible maps, frustrating game play such as forcefields and reapers, the list goes on really. So I went back to playing Heroes of Newerth for a year or two after which I took a break from gaming during the final years of university. After I graduated, I wanted to play an RTS game again but I didn't want to go back to warcraft 3. As amazing a game it was, I realized I didn't want to deal with some of the less fun mechanics again (Cyclone, ever lasting slow,...). Besides, I was ready for a new challenge, so I started looking into brood war. Haven't looked back since And yeah, you misunderstood me. Maybe I didn't make my message clear enough. I don't think viewer numbers or even player base correlates with a successful or good game. I'm playing brood war after all, which I believe to be the best RTS ever, which only gets about a peak of 450 players on iCCup nowadays (Korea's still going really strong though). My argument was that Hearthstone can be seen as a success when you look solely at viewer numbers. But when you actually start to look at gameplay, maybe it can't hold up (have never played it to be honest, so I won't make any statements about it!). Finally, I'm not needlessly bashing blizzard. What prompted me to write my previous response was someone claiming blizzard's track record is still (as) great (as ever), which it obviously isn't. The period of 1998-2005 was their golden era in terms of producing quality games, as far as I can tell.
Well OK. You're going to be playing that 1 game until the day you die, and its probably still going to be the greatest RTS we'll ever see. That doesn't mean other games can't be amazing or great.
Blizzard's track record is still fantastic,not perfect, but fantastic nonetheless, especially when compared to other studios. Look at other studios and tell me who you think have the best track records.
And even if they never outdo themselves in Brood War, like you said they peaked at 450 players on ICCUP, that tells me that people moved on and want something new. You can't outdo perfection, but that doesn't mean you can't like the great games that come out. I don't think there should be this attitude of "meh, they'll never outdo their best game, so fuck them for trying, they shouldnt ever bother because you suck so badly."
From what I could gather your stance is every other single game and studio on the planet is terrible.
That's why we're in this thread speculating and optimistic towards new game in the future. If you like RTS and want something new, guess what? Petroglyph and the ghost of Ensemble Studios isn't going to make the next big RTS.
On December 18 2016 23:38 Archeon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2016 21:43 B-royal wrote:On December 18 2016 02:59 lestye wrote:On December 17 2016 23:04 B-royal wrote:On December 14 2016 10:10 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:On December 14 2016 08:10 lestye wrote:On December 14 2016 05:32 ICanFlyLow wrote: Blizzard dont make quality games anymore who cares, they've completely changed their buisness model from making quality games that are addictive and enjoyable for all the right reasons to getting ppl hooked on meaningless crap thats overmarketed to make quick bucks Feel.free to make a thread speculating about the worthy company's upcoming games, the company you feel makes quality games and have the business model of making quality games that are addictive and enjoyable for all the right reasons. Shh.. its not like Blizzard created 4 great franchises spanning decades. Of course they make shit games, they've been around for so long they made 4 shit franchises that have garnered billions of revenue. /sarcasm I agree, so many here want to trash on Blizz, but their track record has been great and isn't getting worse. With Overwatch under their belts, they stand to rule the esports scene or at least have a huge presence. Even Storm has quite a lot of players. Not 20 million, but in the millions I would estimate. So if ICanFlyLow honestly thinks Blizz doesn't care, I would challenge him that they care a lot. In every game they make they care. And if they can't care for it, they will not release it. Look at Titan Sc2 is disillusioning. Diablo 3 was a disaster at launch. WoW has been leaking subscribers steadily, maybe legion has finally managed to swing this around? Heroes of the storm has less than 1/10th the amount of viewers of LOL or DOTA and that's on a good day. HOTS had a rather abysmally small player base, maybe it's growing though lately? Hearthstone can be considered a success in terms of people that play it, doesn't necessarily means it's a good game. After all, millions of people play candy crush and angry birds and I don't consider those good games. Overwatch is really bland in my opinion. Let's see how successful of an eSport it becomes. Compare this to the quality and legacies of starcraft brood war, warcraft 3 the frozen throne, and vanilla wow etc. I know which Blizzard I would choose to develop my next game. What studios DO you like? What studios are you going to be interested in their next big game? What studios do you think make the best multiplayer games since apparently Blizzard is terrible and can't outdo the best games of all time so they belong in the trash. Also Is your argument really that # of viewers dictate the quality of game it is? I guarantee you, the top of Twitch is not going to reflect anyone's favorite games of all time. While maybe if I don't think the games are as amazing as the games they released in 1998-2004, they're still amazing games. and they're the most likely company to make a game I'll really enjoy. Most people probably feel this way hence this thread. Unless you want to argue how you think Sega/Capcom/Gearbox/iD/Epic make way better games and we're just fanboys. I did not only like, but loved, the old blizzard that developed warcraft 3 tft and brood war. I grew up on playing the frozen throne. I was essentially a one-game gamer. I was already playing reign of chaos back in 2002, offline only. And then when the frozen throne came, I bought it and continued playing offline some more before I finally ventured to playing online, probably around the time when I entered high school back in 2003 I believe. I played this game for a solid 9 years or so. Then I got suckered in by the moba hype and started playing Heroes of Newerth, which was an excellent moba until making money got more important than releasing proper new heroes and balancing the old ones. Am I obliged to follow other studios? I don't particularly like any games that come out nowadays. I'm mainly an RTS gamer anyway and have been waiting more than a decade for the next genre-defining RTS. Unfortunately it never came, I grew tired of Sc2 after a mere 2 months of playing. The deathball phenomenon, the forced macro mechanics, the horrible maps, frustrating game play such as forcefields and reapers, the list goes on really. So I went back to playing Heroes of Newerth for a year or two after which I took a break from gaming during the final years of university. After I graduated, I wanted to play an RTS game again but I didn't want to go back to warcraft 3. As amazing a game it was, I realized I didn't want to deal with some of the less fun mechanics again (Cyclone, ever lasting slow,...). Besides, I was ready for a new challenge, so I started looking into brood war. Haven't looked back since And yeah, you misunderstood me. Maybe I didn't make my message clear enough. I don't think viewer numbers or even player base correlates with a successful or good game. I'm playing brood war after all, which I believe to be the best RTS ever, which only gets about a peak of 450 players on iCCup nowadays (Korea's still going really strong though). My argument was that Hearthstone can be seen as a success when you look solely at viewer numbers. But when you actually start to look at gameplay, maybe it can't hold up (have never played it to be honest, so I won't make any statements about it!). Finally, I'm not needlessly bashing blizzard. What prompted me to write my previous response was someone claiming blizzard's track record is still (as) great (as ever), which it obviously isn't. The period of 1998-2005 was their golden era in terms of producing quality games, as far as I can tell. If you don't count wc2 into their golden era then you have no idea, sorry. Wc2 was the direct predecessor of sc1 in pretty much everything. And what you describe is the typical "in the time I played a lot back when i was a teen, games were better"-mentality. Diablo 2 and knights of the old republic will forever have a special place in my heart. But I'm not blind enough to think that they'd sell if the companies released them nowadays. Making games was easier back in the day. Show nested quote +On December 18 2016 18:50 bluzi wrote:WHAT ABOUT WARCRAFT 4!!!! this game is a mandatory 1 week work free I am not looking for anything revolutionary just WC4 !!!!! With sc2 being dead in the water relatively shortly after LotV, I doubt they are going to touch RTS for a while.
LOTV sold 1 million copies in less than 24 hours. It's not dead at all.... there are thousands of people on right now. You people act like we're in double digit player numbers like Grey Goo or something
On December 19 2016 04:48 IntoTheheart wrote: I tried WC2 after playing BW. Despite how I can appreciate its contribution to gaming, WC2 has not aged well, and I honestly wouldn't recommend people try to play it except for nostalgia.
I think when talking about gaming companies' futures it's important to separate games that are "good" into exactly why they're good: for instance, some games are important to their genre like D1, but haven't always aged well - just like D1. Was it a bad game contextually? Probably not, but since I played it without that specific context, it's hard for me to see any reason to play it. I'd have to agree with this. WC2 was probably a great game, but it isnt a masterpiece like BW/WC3 where the gameplay holds up and theres big communities for it 20 years later.
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On December 18 2016 22:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2016 21:43 B-royal wrote: .... I grew up on playing the frozen throne. I was essentially a one-game gamer. I was already playing reign of chaos back in 2002, offline only. And then when the frozen throne came, I bought it and continued playing offline some more before I finally ventured to playing online, probably around the time when I entered high school back in 2003 I believe. I played this game for a solid 9 years or so. .... I don't particularly like any games that come out nowadays. I'm mainly an RTS gamer anyway and have been waiting more than a decade for the next genre-defining RTS. Unfortunately it never came, I grew tired of Sc2 after a mere 2 months of playing... sounds to me like you're just bored of video games. you basically don't like video games and its impressive Blizzard got you to play their games. i'm 29. i love playing Overwatch but it does not mean nearly as much to me as my favourite games did when i was 15. its the cycle of life. kittens play ... adult cats hunt. at 29 real life is more satisfying than video games and i'm not expecting Blizzard to change that for me.
He doesn't really sound bored to me, but I think it's all about expectations. I'm 30 now and still love playing games as much as 15 years ago, but of course I've aged and that certainly takes away plenty of the magic surrounding video games, but that doesn't mean games can't push your buttons anymore.
But it's just obvious Blizzard has undergone quite some changes in their development policy over the last 2-3 years as they certainly don't feel like the "ok let's take our time and just do it right"-company they became known for, that's most certainly due to the changes in today's industry and you can't really blame them for doing so, but aside from the brilliant technical polish all their games receive they definitely changed.
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On December 11 2016 02:53 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Dustin Browder is returning to his roots.. Blizzard secretly bought the C&C IP off of EA and Browder is working on Red Alert 4. I wish
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On December 19 2016 04:48 IntoTheheart wrote: I tried WC2 after playing BW. Despite how I can appreciate its contribution to gaming, WC2 has not aged well, and I honestly wouldn't recommend people try to play it except for nostalgia.
I think when talking about gaming companies' futures it's important to separate games that are "good" into exactly why they're good: for instance, some games are important to their genre like D1, but haven't always aged well - just like D1. Was it a bad game contextually? Probably not, but since I played it without that specific context, it's hard for me to see any reason to play it. D1 aged pretty well imo but it is a game that won't hold your hand and has fewer restrictions than more modern stuff.
WC2 i can agree it has aged poorly but still for me the music (CD music) for War2 was a masterpiece.The best music blizzard has ever done.Playing WC2 now isn't essential and you probably won't miss much if you skip it but give the music a listen at least.
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I like how people correlate sold units to quality.
Yay industry, yay money.
Now please explain to me why I'd rather play street fighter 2 turbo instead of SF V, because of nostalgia right ? But then, why would I rather play Guilty gear Xrd then Guilty gear XX ?
Oh my, what a conundrum.....could it have anything to do with the actual content/quality of the product ?
Gee, I wonder...-__
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On December 19 2016 20:24 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2016 04:48 IntoTheheart wrote: I tried WC2 after playing BW. Despite how I can appreciate its contribution to gaming, WC2 has not aged well, and I honestly wouldn't recommend people try to play it except for nostalgia.
I think when talking about gaming companies' futures it's important to separate games that are "good" into exactly why they're good: for instance, some games are important to their genre like D1, but haven't always aged well - just like D1. Was it a bad game contextually? Probably not, but since I played it without that specific context, it's hard for me to see any reason to play it. D1 aged pretty well imo but it is a game that won't hold your hand and has fewer restrictions than more modern stuff. WC2 i can agree it has aged poorly but still for me the music (CD music) for War2 was a masterpiece.The best music blizzard has ever done.Playing WC2 now isn't essential and you probably won't miss much if you skip it but give the music a listen at least.
I mean, D1 probably aged the best, but I don't think it has the depth or action as the later titles. Like compare the amount of people who still go back and play D2 every season, D1 is something more of a novelty.
On December 19 2016 20:50 No Swear wrote: I like how people correlate sold units to quality.
Yay industry, yay money.
Now please explain to me why I'd rather play street fighter 2 turbo instead of SF V, because of nostalgia right ? But then, why would I rather play Guilty gear Xrd then Guilty gear XX ?
Oh my, what a conundrum.....could it have anything to do with the actual content/quality of the product ?
Gee, I wonder...-__
Isn't that bad example, because Street Fighter V sold like shit because it was a bad game? In fact, I think that's a TERRIBLE example for your point because Street Figher II sold the most out of any Street Fighter game.
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But his example with the streetfigher was the nostalgia card people use when ppl like the older games instead of the new. Ex: I like broodwar much more than SC2, therefore its nostalgia 100%.
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Isn't SF2T also a terrible example because that game was broken as shit, and has like zero competitive balance?
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Nope it cant be also since the first example wasnt bad.
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On December 20 2016 00:40 lestye wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2016 20:50 No Swear wrote: I like how people correlate sold units to quality.
Yay industry, yay money.
Now please explain to me why I'd rather play street fighter 2 turbo instead of SF V, because of nostalgia right ? But then, why would I rather play Guilty gear Xrd then Guilty gear XX ?
Oh my, what a conundrum.....could it have anything to do with the actual content/quality of the product ?
Gee, I wonder...-__
Isn't that bad example, because Street Fighter V sold like shit because it was a bad game? In fact, I think that's a TERRIBLE example for your point because Street Figher II sold the most out of any Street Fighter game.
The "Now," denoted a change of subject...
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On December 20 2016 02:21 WolfintheSheep wrote: Isn't SF2T also a terrible example because that game was broken as shit, and has like zero competitive balance?
Super street fighter 2 turbo to be exact
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On December 18 2016 20:16 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2016 01:54 phantomlancer23 wrote: Dustin failed in hots and sc2 i dont expect anything good from him nor i think they ll give him anything difficult and important again. He did fine with HoTS. The bigger problem with HoTS is that it missed the MOBA rush in 2011 The biggest problem of HotS is that it's 99% team based and individual players don't have much impact which makes it a) frustrating to play solo, b) boring to watch, no "super star" players or really exciting plays, c) bad for solo queue streams. I did really try to like it but the core game design just isn't mine and I'm not alone with this.
@topic There is something in the works but I guess we'll have to wait quite some time for an official announcement, maybe Blizzcon in the next 2 years or something like that. Can't wait .
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