this doesn't affect TvZ/TvP at all and makes TvT less retarded/insanely punishing
#MakeTvTChessAgain
thank you for reading
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woopr
United States110 Posts
this doesn't affect TvZ/TvP at all and makes TvT less retarded/insanely punishing #MakeTvTChessAgain thank you for reading | ||
MockHamill
Sweden1793 Posts
On February 16 2017 07:57 woopr wrote: make it to 1 siege tank takes up a whole medivac this doesn't affect TvZ/TvP at all and makes TvT less retarded/insanely punishing #MakeTvTChessAgain thank you for reading This is actually a really good idea. It would not prevent doom drops but at least make them less strong. Toning down anything that decides the entire outcome of the game in a few seconds is a move in the right direction. | ||
Ganseng
Russian Federation473 Posts
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effecto
France142 Posts
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Gwavajuice
France1810 Posts
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Phaenoman
568 Posts
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xTJx
Brazil419 Posts
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plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
Tank drops might not be used often in non-mirrors, but it's still a possible threat hanging over the heads of the opponents. It could also open up new styles if you don't nerf it to the ground. | ||
Topin
Peru9937 Posts
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Cosmos
Belgium1077 Posts
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Phaenoman
568 Posts
On February 16 2017 21:57 plogamer wrote: No, stop asking for self-nerfs in the interest of game-play. Only Terrans are dumbass enough to do that (see hellbat nerf in hots). You think ling/bane is more forgiving? Or phoenix wars in PvP? Tank drops might not be used often in non-mirrors, but it's still a possible threat hanging over the heads of the opponents. It could also open up new styles if you don't nerf it to the ground. 1. If a majority is interested in the same "self-nerf" then I see no problem in implementing it. 2. We are talking about TvT. If you wanna improve ZvZ or PvP pls make a proposal instead of insulting ppl that try to put some reasonable effort into it. 3. I cannot remember any drops including tanks before and after the tankivac mechanic in a non-mirror. It's not even a threat. Pls enlighten us. | ||
JackONeill
861 Posts
On the one hand it's really good for TvT doom drops, which are very, very frustrating, and omnipresent at pro level. Watching innovation stream, nearly every single TvT he wins is with a Ddrop. On the other hand : - i really hate "incoherent" nerfs (room in a dropship is determined by supply usually, and the hellbat nerf was already the incoherent one) - it's kind of a nerf to marine tanks in TvZ, which was already indirectly nerfed by the liberator AA nerf (meaning mutas are much stronger in TvZ, and marine tanks already sucked against LBM in HOTS) - weaker tank saving potential overall, which is kinda sad | ||
imre
France9263 Posts
On February 16 2017 22:30 JackONeill wrote: I'm on the fence about that. On the one hand it's really good for TvT doom drops, which are very, very frustrating, and omnipresent at pro level. Watching innovation stream, nearly every single TvT he wins is with a Ddrop. On the other hand : - i really hate "incoherent" nerfs (room in a dropship is determined by supply usually, and the hellbat nerf was already the incoherent one) - it's kind of a nerf to marine tanks in TvZ, which was already indirectly nerfed by the liberator AA nerf (meaning mutas are much stronger in TvZ, and marine tanks already sucked against LBM in HOTS) - weaker tank saving potential overall, which is kinda sad To be fair the cons are really smalls even if they exist. And right now top lvl ladder TvT is always decided by a doom drop if the game goes past 5 minutes. | ||
Charoisaur
Germany15616 Posts
On February 16 2017 22:21 Phaenoman wrote: Show nested quote + On February 16 2017 21:57 plogamer wrote: No, stop asking for self-nerfs in the interest of game-play. Only Terrans are dumbass enough to do that (see hellbat nerf in hots). You think ling/bane is more forgiving? Or phoenix wars in PvP? Tank drops might not be used often in non-mirrors, but it's still a possible threat hanging over the heads of the opponents. It could also open up new styles if you don't nerf it to the ground. 3. I cannot remember any drops including tanks before and after the tankivac mechanic in a non-mirror. It's not even a threat. Pls enlighten us. I saw soO losing on stream to a mech doomdrop with 2 tanks, a thor and 4 hellbats. I copied this strat and had some success with it on ladder. | ||
Ryu3600
Canada468 Posts
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eviltomahawk
United States11132 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15616 Posts
On February 17 2017 00:02 Ryu3600 wrote: I like the suggestion and it does seem really good except you have to ask yourself w/o doom drops how do you push into another Terran? sure you can make Vikings and liberators but in my experience, TvT is one of the most boring matchups to play. This is because pushing into someone else can take so long or be so frustrating and vs Doomdrops yes they are stupid and yes they are annoying except they allow for TvT to be faster they push games into a position where you can either win or lose and by removing them / nerfing them you would actually be promoting an incredibly boring match-up. Even if its meant to be like chess I don't want every single TvT of mine to take 25 minutes or longer. I like TvZ and TvP because they escalate and play at such a fun and finely tuned pace. However, I can understand why some people would support this. Doomdrops can be a very fast way to lose a game you're ahead in. However, the way I like to see it is if you're not the one out on the map then you should be the one defending and preparing for said doomdrops. Having sensor towers and missile turrets can often repel most drops and ultimately weaken a Doomdrop. I guess what my general point is: If you want to weaken doomdrops I think a better way to do it would be to improve or buff the Terran static defense such as the missile turret or the sensor tower (Range of sensor tower, +1 range upgrade is cheaper or faster research) Yeah this is why I don't like the change | ||
fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3958 Posts
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Gwavajuice
France1810 Posts
On February 16 2017 22:21 Phaenoman wrote: Show nested quote + On February 16 2017 21:57 plogamer wrote: No, stop asking for self-nerfs in the interest of game-play. Only Terrans are dumbass enough to do that (see hellbat nerf in hots). You think ling/bane is more forgiving? Or phoenix wars in PvP? Tank drops might not be used often in non-mirrors, but it's still a possible threat hanging over the heads of the opponents. It could also open up new styles if you don't nerf it to the ground. 1. If a majority is interested in the same "self-nerf" then I see no problem in implementing it. 2. We are talking about TvT. If you wanna improve ZvZ or PvP pls make a proposal instead of insulting ppl that try to put some reasonable effort into it. 3. I cannot remember any drops including tanks before and after the tankivac mechanic in a non-mirror. It's not even a threat. Pls enlighten us. You may not be aware but bio tanks is played in TvP and if often includes tanks loading into medivacs. Also, I don't see why you talk as you didn't know that there is balance inside a mirror match up. Saying mirrors are always balanced is a bad analysis, because even in mirror you need to have several options possible for each player. For instance, drops are key in Bio vs Mech, and it doesn't appear that bio is super strong against mech atm, why nerf it even more? for the sake of having turtle to mass ravens in every TvT? On the other hand, I must admit I've missed some pro TvT lately : do you have a consistent list of pro games where one players "stole" the win from a clearly superior player with a doom drop? It would be the first step toward a real improvement for the game : trying to identify and analyse a problem, before throwing random solutions in the air. Cause to be honest, to me this idea sounds very much like : the "hey your finger is itching? let's cut your arm" kind of solution... Last, if you check balance discussion from last year, there were a lot of people on this site saying that tankivacs were promoting doom drops, against all evidence. Aren't we back in a discussion were people blame the design instead of realising that things such as map awarness, reaction time and anticipation are their real issues? | ||
Ryu3600
Canada468 Posts
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