Tease for an upcoming major patch - Page 9
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Patch Notes are out see this thread; http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/525866-starcraft-ii-multiplayer-major-design-changes | ||
papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
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Luolis
Finland7001 Posts
On August 17 2017 20:21 papaz wrote: For the love of all average joes and noobs: remove chrono boost and mules. Slow down the economy, slow down the game. Just bring back 6 worker start and old resource amount. Then it will be perfect speed again. | ||
Charoisaur
Germany15616 Posts
On August 17 2017 20:23 Luolis wrote: Just bring back 6 worker start and old resource amount. Then it will be perfect speed again. 12 worker start has made the game much better imo. Not so much downtime at the beginning and less coinflip-cheeses. Agree about old ressource amount. | ||
Luolis
Finland7001 Posts
On August 17 2017 20:25 Charoisaur wrote: 12 worker start has made the game much better imo. Not so much downtime at the beginning and less coinflip-cheeses. Agree about old ressource amount. I liked the old earlygame much more. Earlygame decisions had more importance and there was more tactical choices. | ||
insitelol
845 Posts
On August 17 2017 20:03 maitiky wrote: That's one thing I really liked back during WoL - you were able to defend with only gateway units and it was fine. So you are complaing about MSC and how a single micro mistake with it can cost you games while praising WOL where you didn't even have an option for building MSC, no PO, no nothing. Terran stimming up your ramp 24/7 with pure mineral army while u needed tons of gas-heavy units just to fend him off is surely my heavenly dream i want to go back to. | ||
Aocowns
Norway6070 Posts
On August 17 2017 20:29 Luolis wrote: I liked the old earlygame much more. Earlygame decisions had more importance and there was more tactical choices. mad cus fuzers career ended when he couldnt 11/11 any more | ||
Luolis
Finland7001 Posts
On August 17 2017 20:39 Aocowns wrote: mad cus fuzers career ended when he couldnt 11/11 any more eksdee. i only think of myself in this regard and my moti ended when 6 worker start ended) | ||
Aocowns
Norway6070 Posts
On August 17 2017 20:45 Luolis wrote: eksdee. i only think of myself in this regard and my moti ended when 6 worker start ended) besides deciding whether or not you want to proxy barracks, what other impactful choices were made before 12 workers? for zerg there were obviously the early pools, but those arent exactly missed, and they were replaced by 12 pool variations quite easily | ||
RoflStomped
Iceland21 Posts
On August 17 2017 20:21 papaz wrote: For the love of all average joes and noobs: remove chrono boost and mules. Slow down the economy, slow down the game. Translation : nerf terran and protoss. nice try. | ||
StarscreamG1
Portugal1652 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On August 17 2017 20:51 Aocowns wrote: besides deciding whether or not you want to proxy barracks, what other impactful choices were made before 12 workers? for zerg there were obviously the early pools, but those arent exactly missed, and they were replaced by 12 pool variations quite easily OL scout gets too the enemy base too late, proxy gateways are basically extinct and they used to be viable in all 3 matchups | ||
Marfy
4 Posts
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Saggymidgetbooty6969
112 Posts
On August 18 2017 00:10 Marfy wrote: So, am I right in saying 10:00 Pacific time is in about an hour? 1h 50min from now | ||
bulya
Israel386 Posts
On the ladder you can do whatever you want and win a lot with it if you execute well enough. | ||
avilo
United States4100 Posts
12 worker start made the game more poker/coin flip than Heart of the Swarm/Wings of Liberty. Previously you had approximately 45 seconds to 1 minute or so to prepare or counter an all-in from your opponent if you scouted their base. With the 12 worker start, due to your economy being massively accelerated, both players now choose builds and unit production before they even see what the opponent has gone for. It makes every match-up like Zerg Vs Zerg. Did he open pool first? Or Hatch first? It's complete random luck that puts you at an advantage or disadvantage with no reaction time for either player. Build order win/loss and build order disadvantages are much more common with 12 worker starts than they were with 6 worker starts. 6 worker start made the game start slower, but all-ins were more telegraphed and also more ALL-IN. You could scout it, and have another 45 seconds - 1 minute to prepare counter production or bunkers or cannons or whatever it is and hold and play out a solid macro game. People that claim the 12 worker start is good for the game are very short sighted or biased towards blind aggression and poker decisions rather than SC2 being decided by who the actual better player is in a solid macro game. | ||
MaxViktory
Sweden136 Posts
What I've lost is a few minutes of building drones and watching my overlords inch across the map. Instead I'm thrown straight into action and deciscions. As a zerg I still get bunker and cannon rushed. In 2/3 matchups building a pool with my first 200 minerals is still legit. Past the first 2 minutes there's always stuff going on. Against terran I get to play the reaper-mini game and then defend against hellion banshee or mine drop or hellbat all-in or a 211. Terran is then forced to kill creep tumors through the whole game to not be drowned in them, which forces army movement from both sides. There's definitely a fun kind of space control going on between creep and liberator/tank/mine. Zerg needs a path of creep to push and terran needs to kill a path through the creep. Protoss scout/pressures me with adepts immediately and in larger numbers they create frustrating (good) multitasking. Archon drops require scouting and positioning. Best of all is the early game in ZvZ where no build is a hard counter and it's always decided by micro and correct reactions. The disappearing mineralpatches set a pace to the game where there's always something to fight for, a goal to establish a new expansion and deny the opponents every few minutes. Turtling on 3 base doesn't work so contains are legit and the spread of bases opens up for drops, run-bys, and warpins to pick off infrastructure and rallying units. That being said, protoss air, terran mech, and energy-based zerg (like the mined out game Snute won yesterday vs SouL with two entire bases less) can all expand at a much slower pace but must find a way to expand while defending production all the same. We finally have the fights on multiple fronts semi-late game that people have been asking for since WoL. In ZvP there's often lingbanehydra coming into the fourth, third, and natural at the same time. Terrans push my fourth or fifth and rally to my natural. Thanks to the oracle, overlord speed, and terrans scans, drops, and pokes there's almost no composition surprise if you pay attention to scouting. In general I find all Z matchups very fun to play right now. The only bad part being how clearly lingbaneHydra is the best ZvP composition. ZvT is amazing though, with lingbaneMuta, lingbaneHydra, and roachRavager being viable and terrans building every single terran unit (except the battle cruiser and the newest mech-unit) in most 20+min games. Not to mention that tank-mech, battle-mech, marineTank and MMMM are all viable for T. ZvT is amazing and the effects of the economy changes helped the tempo. | ||
Rococo
United States331 Posts
I say be bold, just don't be afraid to kill anything in PTR. | ||
OrangeGarage
Korea (South)319 Posts
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MrWayne
219 Posts
On August 18 2017 00:15 avilo wrote: For those mentioning the 12 worker start: 12 worker start made the game more poker/coin flip than Heart of the Swarm/Wings of Liberty. Previously you had approximately 45 seconds to 1 minute or so to prepare or counter an all-in from your opponent if you scouted their base. With the 12 worker start, due to your economy being massively accelerated, both players now choose builds and unit production before they even see what the opponent has gone for. It makes every match-up like Zerg Vs Zerg. Did he open pool first? Or Hatch first? It's complete random luck that puts you at an advantage or disadvantage with no reaction time for either player. Build order win/loss and build order disadvantages are much more common with 12 worker starts than they were with 6 worker starts. 6 worker start made the game start slower, but all-ins were more telegraphed and also more ALL-IN. You could scout it, and have another 45 seconds - 1 minute to prepare counter production or bunkers or cannons or whatever it is and hold and play out a solid macro game. People that claim the 12 worker start is good for the game are very short sighted or biased towards blind aggression and poker decisions rather than SC2 being decided by who the actual better player is in a solid macro game. you can say a lot of things about the 12 worker start in LotV but not that it is more coin flip than the 6 worker start in HotS/WoL. In the example that you brought up: a simple SCV scout after the barack completed and a second scout with the reaper and everyone can react properly. | ||
kajtarp
Hungary419 Posts
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