Power Rank 08/04/2009 - Page 4
Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet |
icystorage
Jollibee19343 Posts
| ||
barbahaba0
Israel226 Posts
sad for flash leta and zero | ||
Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
On August 04 2009 06:19 Hinanawi wrote: I had a long post typed up about Flash, but I don't feel like F5ing this thread all day replying to people, so instead I'll just say that I think the illogical hatred of him on this site is getting really old, and I wonder if any of you would bet take 50-50 betting odds against the (6-2 since last PR), (#3 ELO/Kespa) Terran losing a Bo5 to anyone ranked #6-10 on this month's PR. I would easily bet on 3 people who is not even in the PR (Jangbi, Stork and Best) and I would bet on yarnc also and would give some serious thought about betting on Type-b also I might even consider skyhigh but its TvT after all so its kinda hard to bet against Flash. Since TvT is the one matchup he really seems rock solid in and can keep up with the best, while in TvP and TvZ he constantly loses vs the best in those matchups. Sure he beats everyone who is not in the top5 in those matchups, but he loses vs everyone who is lately. Maybe he can overcome this and change it, but the fact is he constantly drops out of leagues every time he faces someone good. Sure once he don`t he goes ahead and do like in GOM crushing weak players left and right but as it is today Flash seem to need lucky draws to go far in Starleagues. (If he wins GOM its after one of the easiest roads ever) I still think he got what it takes, but hes not been showing it the last year... | ||
TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
| ||
Rostam
United States2552 Posts
| ||
3clipse
Canada2555 Posts
On August 04 2009 04:40 ghostWriter wrote: Don't make me laugh, Effort is a much better player than Iris. He stated that he didn't practice for gom, while Iris did. He had to prepare for his game and an ace match AND a super ace match, without being certain who would come out (although he did have a general idea of who would appear). Effort delivered almost every time he came out and he BARELY lost to Jaedong and almost took CJ to the finals. Iris has lost to odin and perfectman and looked bad doing it. The only problem is effort's horrible decision to go 12hatch on carthage. The difference between his 12hatch on byzantium and jaedong's is that when jaedong did it, zero was at cross positions and his zerglings had to take a longer route to get across the map than calm's zerglings did, which gave jaedong time to defend well. Of course Effort is better than Iris. You're disputing a point I never made. You'd be batshit insane, however, to say that Effort has had a better month than Iris. Apparently we disagree on the function of the PR. | ||
DrTJEckleburg
United States1080 Posts
| ||
Severedevil
United States4795 Posts
On August 04 2009 07:42 DrTJEckleburg wrote: I don't think many people would dispute Flash is still the best terran player in StarCraft but he hasn't put up results in the past month simply because he lost in the MSL/OSL early, and after all the Power Ranking is a...well, uh, a power ranking. Pretty nice PR JWD, you can't please everyone but you did a good job. Many people dispute Stork's position as the best Protoss player in Starcraft, so why not Flash's as the best Terran? | ||
tobi9999
United States1966 Posts
Canata dropped out of both leagues (yes it was to jaedong and fantasy), but losing shouldn't make you rank up. I still don't understand how Skyhigh, Yarnc, and type-b WIN all their games while Canata LOSES them, but Canata is still ranked higher. Of course he gave exciting games against Jaedong, but Skyhigh demolished Leta and the Oz terrans, Yarnc tore apart Go.Go, and Type-B also took out Leta. IMO Canata for rank 9 or 10 I don't see how you can justify him ranking up As for others, I think you should've waited for a week to do the PR. You should've waited for the proleague grand finals. That way you would be able to rank the top 3 much easier | ||
TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On August 04 2009 07:50 Severedevil wrote: Many people dispute Stork's position as the best Protoss player in Starcraft, so why not Flash's as the best Terran? Stork is by and large not considered the best Protoss in starcraft, that would definitely be Bisu, and yeah, it'd be pretty hard to not consider the only protoss with three major titles not the best thusfar. Stork had a startling consistency with a knack for choking, but hell Bisu is the one that started Stork on his silver run, didn't he? | ||
ghostWriter
United States3302 Posts
On August 04 2009 07:40 3clipse wrote: Of course Effort is better than Iris. You're disputing a point I never made. You'd be batshit insane, however, to say that Effort has had a better month than Iris. Apparently we disagree on the function of the PR. Hahaha I already pointed out how iris lost to odin and perfectman and looked terrible. It's not like he had to prepare for as many games as effort did either. Do you even watch proleague? On August 04 2009 06:19 Hinanawi wrote: I had a long post typed up about Flash, but I don't feel like F5ing this thread all day replying to people, so instead I'll just say that I think the illogical hatred of him on this site is getting really old, and I wonder if any of you would bet take 50-50 betting odds against the (6-2 since last PR), (#3 ELO/Kespa) Terran losing a Bo5 to anyone ranked #6-10 on this month's PR. There's no illogical hatred at all, what are you talking about? He lost to calm and kal right before that pl went up and he looked terrible. He lost to kwanro twice, bbsed Effort, beat thezerg (an sktt1 zerg lol) and 3-0ed july in Gom, the only tournament he had to prepare for. He's not even in the OSL because of his poor performance and he didn't even qualify for proleague, although that was more of his team's fault. On August 04 2009 06:32 Lebesgue wrote: I can go with Yarnc but not with Skyhigh. Yarnc has incredible ZvT and Flash is very vulnerable to his play. But I think Flash is superior to Skyhigh. Skyhigh is really over-hyped. He is a good player but not as good as many people tend to believe. lol. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/players/554_sKyHigh He's 8-3 in July beating lomo, hiya, leta twice and fantasy. He's 9-1 in his last 10 TvT and 67% in TvT overall (Flash is 70%). On August 04 2009 08:20 tobi9999 wrote: In my opinion Skyhigh, Yarnc, type-b all did better than Canata. Canata dropped out of both leagues (yes it was to jaedong and fantasy), but losing shouldn't make you rank up. I still don't understand how Skyhigh, Yarnc, and type-b WIN all their games while Canata LOSES them, but Canata is still ranked higher. Of course he gave exciting games against Jaedong, but Skyhigh demolished Leta and the Oz terrans, Yarnc tore apart Go.Go, and Type-B also took out Leta. IMO Canata for rank 9 or 10 I don't see how you can justify him ranking up As for others, I think you should've waited for a week to do the PR. You should've waited for the proleague grand finals. That way you would be able to rank the top 3 much easier Oz terrans are not good at TvT, hiya is only good for TvP and Lomo is only good for TvZ. Canata didn't have a chance to play proleague for awhile, but that's because sktt1 is already in the finals, like JWD already said. Leta has been in a little slump lately, so beating him isn't as awe-inspiring, although they were admittedly very important to CJ's win over Hite. Canata made it to the quarterfinals of OSL AND MSL, where he lost to Jaedong and Fantasy as you said. Although he lost 2-0 to Fantasy, he nearly beat Jaedong and left with a 3-2 score. yarnc beating go.go isn't impressive at all, he's not even close to being among the top 5 terrans. Type-b taking out leta is impressive, but since they are teammates, leta wasn't able to use his seemingly unbeatable 2port wraith because type-b must have practiced against it a million times. Canata used to be this boring defensive player who didn't really make it that far in individual leagues and won a couple of games for sktt1 in the proleague to a much smarter, aggressive player that was actually fun to watch and easy to cheer for. Canata beating Jaedong on Outsider with a single vulture? Come on, who wasn't impressed? There's a rank every month, the results of the grand finals will have an impact on the next rank, but Jaedong is definitely on top and Fantasy and Bisu are pretty much about the same level right now. | ||
Severedevil
United States4795 Posts
On August 04 2009 08:26 TwoToneTerran wrote: Stork is by and large not considered the best Protoss in starcraft, that would definitely be Bisu, and yeah, it'd be pretty hard to not consider the only protoss with three major titles not the best thusfar. Stork had a startling consistency with a knack for choking, but hell Bisu is the one that started Stork on his silver run, didn't he? Stork was by and large considered the best Protoss in Starcraft, just as Flash was by and large considered the best Terran in Starcraft. Neither of them played up to S-Class standards after failing out of last season's starleagues. Fantasy < Bisu, and fanboyism, allowed Flash to pretend he was still the strongest for much longer than Stork, but... you can't champion your race if you get raped by the other two. | ||
Ideas
United States7956 Posts
| ||
Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On August 04 2009 08:51 Ideas wrote: Is it hard to scroll down a page and see for yourself? And no, its not the first time.is this the 1st time flash is off the PR since he was 1st on it? On August 04 2009 08:20 tobi9999 wrote: Allow me. HE PLAYED GOOD. That is the ONLY justification the power rank has ever needed and the only one that will EVER exist. He played GOOD. Iris got I believe...2nd maybe 3rd on the power rank for LOSING to Savior back in Shinhan, why cant canata go up two fucking slots for showing a drastic improvement in play even if it didn't result in a league win? How are you...In my opinion Skyhigh, Yarnc, type-b all did better than Canata. Canata dropped out of both leagues (yes it was to jaedong and fantasy), but losing shouldn't make you rank up. IMO Canata for rank 9 or 10 I don't see how you can justify him ranking up ill get banned if I stay in this thread any longer. ^_^ | ||
thunk
United States6233 Posts
It's actually interesting that Proleague has unseated OSL/MSL/GOM. It is very clear that Proleague is more important than the individual leagues and because there are so many games in a series, two ace players will play each other multiple times, in in front of not just fans but in front of teammates, the largest pressure-appliers ever. | ||
ryuu_
United States1266 Posts
On August 04 2009 06:57 icystorage wrote: perfectman deserves a rank imo > Rookie of the PR? lol | ||
TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On August 04 2009 08:48 Severedevil wrote: Stork was by and large considered the best Protoss in Starcraft, just as Flash was by and large considered the best Terran in Starcraft. Neither of them played up to S-Class standards after failing out of last season's starleagues. Fantasy < Bisu, and fanboyism, allowed Flash to pretend he was still the strongest for much longer than Stork, but... you can't champion your race if you get raped by the other two. That's pretty harsh if you think people only champion Flash because of fanboyism. That's not only a disservice to anyone who's supported him, but to Flash and his accomplishments. Flash won his starleague nearly four seasons ago, and low and behold he's still got a winrate that only falls short to Jaedong -- obviously proof that he's never deserved to champion the race. It's clear Flash has hit a rough patch, but don't pretend he just won a starleague and started sucking. He's put up monster results in proleague for the longest damn time, going through 90% of it with weaker back up than Jaedong has right now. Didn't he make every top 16 of every tournament he was in since his starleague run(and most of the time hit top 8, though this season was more disappointing with the group of death and Kwanro's upset)? If not then I apologize, but both Jaedong and Bisu have had bigger slumps than this. People act like Flash suddenly becomes terrible whenever he doesn't win a starleague. MrHoon put it wonderfully here -- Flash always gets the short end of the stick around here. The only time he gets championed by people who aren't his fans are when it's so undeniable that you look like a fool to say otherwise. I'm fine to admit that Fantasy is the stand out Terran right now, and that Skyhigh is the one hogging the 'potential' spotlight, but I think everyone here dissing Flash needs to understand he's both accomplished more than Fantasy -- both in titles and in changing the game -- and he's younger than SkyHigh. It's fine to say Flash isn't hot right now (he isn't!), but it's more than just fanboys who've championed Flash. Flash earned the fuck out of his position as best Terran. Fantasy is the one that has to prove himself. | ||
Lebesgue
4541 Posts
But saying he is over-hyped is such a BS. This kid is on 67% overall winrate only below Jaedong. He's been carrying his team all the time and he had the highest number of wins in proleague. Obviously not an achievement at all. Also if you haven't, please go check his last 10 TvT. He won against all top Terrans out there in incredibly epic games. I suppose that was just luck. In his weakest match-up he has winning percentage of 63%. Again nothing spectacular,there are so many players that don't have weak match-up right? But for some reason people at TL alawys judge Flash much more harshly than any other progamer. Maybe Jaedong is judged equally harshly but he has so many fanboys that always defend him (often rightfully so) that it doesn't seem as unfair. On the other hand Flash is been criticised at TL all the time and since he's lacking the support all those haters are too visible. | ||
eshlow
United States5210 Posts
Flash needs to win leagues for people to take him seriously as a top player... Fantasy, in this regard, has done fairly well by making the past 2 OSL finals, but he will have to demonstrate that he can step it up a notch and win one if he wants to be considered the best. Flash winning GOM is a start. If they have the bo5 vs. Jaedong after that and he wins that will go a long way to proving he still has it. We shall see. BTW, nice rank JWD. I do think Canata is a bit high... but as a SKT + Canata fan I'll take it. :p And here's to hoping Bisu demolishes Iris tonight. | ||
Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
| ||
| ||