You know the only reason you were banned the first time (from what it looks like) is for saying you were expecting to be banned, which is what you're doing again.... Why would you even bring that up? Posting well really isn't hard, but martyring/predicting bans for yourself is basically insta-ban.
I thought his post was OT and kinda funny too. Then saw he was predicting another ban and was like "wut"
Prostitution isn't my cup of tea but I have no problem with the idea of legalizing it. Of course the way it is described by the OP in the Netherlands sounds terrible and I would want to see protections against organized crime. However, I believe with stringent protective measures included with legalizing legislature, prostitution could be an acceptable business.
Really nice OP. Fair, objective, a good read. A real rarity.
It's ok, its f@#d we live in a world where people are forced to make that choice but a world where you can't pay for sex is just as messed up. I'd rather fight for prostitute's rights at work than a ban on prostitution etc. Basically what I'm trying to say just like with any product, you want good sex? get a proffesional to do it..
EDIT: always wanted to make a similar thread on bribery and corruption, however I'm far too sarcastic to create threads and not able to produce OP of this quality
On September 30 2012 20:11 ArtOfStyLe wrote: i think it should be legalized especially since most of those women have no other way to survive...
problem is today that, the majority of the women who're doing prostitution aren't doing it because they have no other way to survive, but because the money is so much better than the pay they'd get for a job, educated or not. so if it wasn't legal, it'd aspire more young women to do the same, and that'd create an even bigger issue for the economy and the society of which these women live in.
On September 30 2012 18:03 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I love prostitutes, they make me happy, and I think I make them happy, too.
Nah, man.. You devour a little part of their souls every time.. You're a soul sadist..
Where do you get this from? That's quite an uninformed, biased judgment you're making. Some of them hate their jobs but how is it any different from a gold digger dating a guy she hates for money? At least I'm considerate, nice, not disgusting, and respectful. Some of them actually enjoy their work, you know. Imagine you could get paid to have sex as a guy! And then suddenly a pretty good-looking, pretty interesting and generally nice girl comes in to pay for sex with you instead of a fat/old/decrepit/neurotic one!
I've had a lot of real conversations with these girls and trust me, unless you've had a conversation with one of them yourself, there's no way you'll understand. Sure, some of them hate their lives, but I'm sure some office workers hate their lives, too. It doesn't make office work immoral as a whole. Some of them really love what they do. No joke.
prostitution should be legal. Why is porn legal, while prostitution is not? Double standards. Also working physical work is certainly legal, and you get your ass worked out in some jobs. Why is providing sex to ppl who want to buy it is illegal is beyond me. Its pretty much same thing, you get paid for doing physical work in this case, having sex.
People here want to legalize prostitution but then "tax the shit out of it"? They already would be paying income taxes and you would place more upon them because you look down on their profession? Giving the state a monopoly over the pimping industry for revenue purposes. It is sick and twisted. Legalize prostitution, and leave them the fuck alone.
I am from the Netherlands, and searched alot about prostitution in Amsterdam after i read the OP. I could find scientific numbers about an increase in organized crime in Amsterdam, but i'm wondering if it's because of the legalization of prostitution. The articles especially tell that the total amount of prostitution has increased, and is still increasing, mainly beause of the amounts of tourists and the demand of prostitution in Amsterdam. A factor why prostitution has increased, is because a lot of Eastern European woman can more easily travel (or be trafficked) to the Netherlands nowadays.
So an increase in prostitution, is of course an increase in organised crime, although it does not mean it has something to do with the legalization in the Netherlands. (no direct causality)
Of course there is a shocking amount of trafficking of girls and organised crime which collaborates with the coffeeshops in Amsterdam. However, the local municipality is only recently starting to investigate the actual quantity of illegal activities after the legalization of brothels in this district. (alot of investigational research is been done though, especially about human trafficking, but not with actual numbers)
side note: Amsterdam is recently starting to decrease the amount of prostitution, by decreasing the amount of "red light windows". But this measure from the municipality in Amsterdam only increaed the amount of organised crime in the region. (http://vorige.nrc.nl/binnenland/article2631666.ece/Wallen_minder_ramen,_meer_ellende_) This because alot of foreign woman can not find another job in the Netherlands, except for going underground in illegal circuits. It appeared that Dutch woman do find other jobs, after decreasing the amount of windows.(http://www.parool.nl/parool/nl/5/POLITIEK/article/detail/234551/2009/04/01/Prostituees-niet-ondergronds-na-sluiten-ramen.dhtml)
I'm very sorry but alot of the sources are in Dutch, and i could not find English alternatives. Appearantly alot of research in the Netherlands is still done in Dutch, which is an entire problem of it's own :-)
People have such a retarded way of looking at free will.
Just because a person chooses to sell their body for money doesn't mean that person actually wants that. I think very very very few prostitutes actually do it by "pure free will". Selling one's body is not something you enjoy, even if it gives temporary physical pleasure. I'd say the very vast majority of prostitutes really don't enjoy their job and do it because it's the only way out of misery, or atleast a way to keep yourself from drowning.
On September 29 2012 01:50 noD wrote: As long as they are doing by free will no problem ... It's actually the oldest job known by man
I wonder what precentage of prostitutes that do it by free will is. If someone choose prostitution because of economical issues - thats not free will. Thats being pushed into it. Same goes for acknowledgement issues and actually most cases.
There might be a small fraction of people that have sex for money by free will - but that number is likely VERY small.
You have to be careful about this line of thinking. It is free will to choose prostitution because of economical reasons. No one is forcing a poor woman to go into prostitution (unless they are actually forcing her, which falls into the realm of coercion/violence). She could be a maid, or a janitor, or wait tables, or work at McDonald's, but she chooses prostitution because it makes more money than those jobs. That may be a conscious choice of money over values, but it's still a choice.
As for violent crimes associated with prostitution, I'm confident that the number of violent acts associated with prostitution would drop to near zero levels if the practice was legalized. When a pimp beats up a prostitute under a government where her job is illegal, what is she supposed to do about it? Call the cops? If I come in to work and my boss beats the crap out of me, I go to HR and get his ass fired and press criminal charges. I'm confident in my rights because I did nothing wrong. Prostitutes would feel the same way if their profession was legitimized. On a similar note, if a John decides to rape or beat a prostitute, what is she supposed to do about it? If it was legal, she can press charges, and you can bet the threat of rape charges will keep people within the confines of what they paid for.
On September 30 2012 21:43 Asol wrote: Could you provide proof of ANY of those statements ZERG_RUSSIAN?
If you really need proof that badly go find some highly paid hooker and ask her yourself..
??
Normally in a discussion you post proof else the argument is, well, invalid. Why would I try to get proof for his statements?
You just asked me for proof and then said "why would i try to get proof"
Take it or leave it, I'm not going to videotape a private conversation with a hooker under the premise of winning an argument on the internet. This is my experience and I'm guessing it's more experience than you have. If you don't believe me, I don't really care, I'm still going to fuck hookers and have meaningful conversations and relationships with them, even if just subjectively.
On September 29 2012 08:27 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: It should not be legalized. It should be legitimized. Pimps and such will still need to be disposed of where possible, and actual businesses need to pop up. Regulations such as condoms and proof of being STD-free would need to be created. Worker rights laws and other things common to other jobs will need to be introduced. Until we feel confident in our ability to legitimize prostitution, it should not be legalized. Of course, whether or not we are is a debate unto itself.
I think this is a win post. While i think legalisation is a necessary step towards legitimisation, i agree that the core issues are things you mention.
Debates like this are often clouded by issues around the profession, instead of the profession itself. I think issues like oppression of women are legitimate, and need to be taken care of, but they need to be seen as independent issues from the moral question 'is prostitution bad or not?'.