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On October 19 2012 14:35 hunts wrote: Nothing against sase or anything, but honestly the whole OP feels like one big balance whine. He wasn't very clear with how he did it, but the OP is a whole bunch of ideas, he never said he wanted every single one implemented.
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it's not like sase was suggesting that all those changes should go through or that other nerfs/buffs shouldn't be implemented on top of that. we all know he's a protoss player, of course it's biased, but it's still valuable and constructive feedback.
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On October 19 2012 14:27 ImNightmare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 14:17 shockaslim wrote:On October 19 2012 13:58 FakeDeath wrote: Have Sase watched WCS Asia and WCS Korea? Why is he complaining so much about zergs? When protoss are doing so well at the moment.
Those Korean Toss were literally stomping everybody. I wonder when we can get the stats for September winrate. You mean the highest caliber Protosses on the planet did well against MUCH weaker opponents? Yeaaa ok. RoRo and curious are much weaker? lol. can't believe we have stuffs like this.
I was speaking in reference to the other Asian countries players. During WCS Korea Protoss was strong. During WCS Asia you could clearly see that the Koreans (most of them that just HAPPENED to be Protoss) were much much much stronger than everyone else. Even then......did Curious and Roro not qualify? Exactly. Only Korean that didn't was Miya and he really isn't as strong as the others.
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On October 19 2012 14:36 convention wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 14:28 TheRabidDeer wrote:On October 19 2012 14:17 shockaslim wrote:On October 19 2012 13:58 FakeDeath wrote: Have Sase watched WCS Asia and WCS Korea? Why is he complaining so much about zergs? When protoss are doing so well at the moment.
Those Korean Toss were literally stomping everybody. I wonder when we can get the stats for September winrate. You mean the highest caliber Protosses on the planet did well against MUCH weaker opponents? Yeaaa ok. Oh you mean the highest caliber protoss that beat all of the highest caliber zerg in the WCS korean nationals? Where all but 1 zerg was knocked out by the RO8 (7 protoss 1 zerg in RO8)? Then WCS asia the same thing happened again with 6 protoss and 2 zerg? The fact is, the game is actually essentially balanced. Mothership needs tweaking and as a result BL's would too, but everything else is golden. Everyone knows that WCS asia was stacked with protoss. You are saying 6p and 2z in asia? Let's look who realistically had any chance of getting anywhere in that tournament: P: Seed, Parting, Creator, Squirtle, Rain, Liquid'Hero, hero T: no one Z: Curious, Roro That must be why the top 8 were 6p and 2z. WCS korea was basically the same. There were no good terrans, and very few good zerg, and a ton of good protoss. Honestly, the game is balanced because protoss/terran win so often with 2/3 base pseudo-allins. And I think that BLs are not the big problem for late game XvZ, but its the infestor. In fact, BLs are very weak if you can actually attack them.
There were plenty of good Terrans and Zergs in WCS Korea, they all got eliminated by the Protoss. It started with 12 Zerg, 9 Terran and 11 Protoss and ended with 7 Protoss in top 8.
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On October 19 2012 14:43 shockaslim wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 14:27 ImNightmare wrote:On October 19 2012 14:17 shockaslim wrote:On October 19 2012 13:58 FakeDeath wrote: Have Sase watched WCS Asia and WCS Korea? Why is he complaining so much about zergs? When protoss are doing so well at the moment.
Those Korean Toss were literally stomping everybody. I wonder when we can get the stats for September winrate. You mean the highest caliber Protosses on the planet did well against MUCH weaker opponents? Yeaaa ok. RoRo and curious are much weaker? lol. can't believe we have stuffs like this. I was speaking in reference to the other Asian countries players. During WCS Korea Protoss was strong. During WCS Asia you could clearly see that the Koreans (most of them that just HAPPENED to be Protoss) were much much much stronger than everyone else. Even then......did Curious and Roro not qualify? Exactly. Only Korean that didn't was Miya and he really isn't as strong as the others.
Most of them just happened to be protoss because the top 8 of WCS kr was 7 toss and 1 zerg. Toss dominated WCS korea and probably will win in china.
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warp in 4 zealots ling runby solved..
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reading the part about making fungals not be castable ontop of one another gave me a interesting idea on a fix - perhaps this could be remedied by blizzard putting in place a diminishing returns system, so the first fungal might lock units in place for the full duration (4seconds) and each subsequent one would lock units in place for half the time of the previous fungal growth with units only taking damage whilst they are standing beneath the FG. That way, players are encouraged not to spam it because doing so would trigger the DR's count too quickly, and also involve increase the skill cap use by lining them up perfectly on the timing (think early game sentry ramp defense timing the forcefields perfectly to save energy).
Other than this, i second removing the mothership, as much fun as it is, winning late game ZvP is balanced around it, because if you had it in the game and the late game was balanced without it, toss would just get it and be OP, and playing late game without it as toss right now makes it nearly impossible to win. Having their is just way too coin flippy, you play you're ass off to get to the late game and flip then the game ends with a coin flip, when you couldve just done an all in and felt the same way about the result
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On October 19 2012 14:43 shockaslim wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 14:27 ImNightmare wrote:On October 19 2012 14:17 shockaslim wrote:On October 19 2012 13:58 FakeDeath wrote: Have Sase watched WCS Asia and WCS Korea? Why is he complaining so much about zergs? When protoss are doing so well at the moment.
Those Korean Toss were literally stomping everybody. I wonder when we can get the stats for September winrate. You mean the highest caliber Protosses on the planet did well against MUCH weaker opponents? Yeaaa ok. RoRo and curious are much weaker? lol. can't believe we have stuffs like this. I was speaking in reference to the other Asian countries players. During WCS Korea Protoss was strong. During WCS Asia you could clearly see that the Koreans (most of them that just HAPPENED to be Protoss) were much much much stronger than everyone else. Even then......did Curious and Roro not qualify? Exactly. Only Korean that didn't was Miya and he really isn't as strong as the others. You are using the argument during the terran OP era where they said most top pros play terran. Its stupid how people seem to think that most top players just happened to be playing a particular race when win rates are huge indication that protoss right now is doing well if not better then zergs and the racial balance in tournaments are proving that toss is more then capable of standing their ground.
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*Neutral parasite on mothership means game over. Make it impossible to neutral parasite Mothership. But yeah, I rather see the mothership removed.
Okay I stoped reading after this. Or maybe make neural melee range Mr. Sase?
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On October 19 2012 14:53 Skelith wrote: *Neutral parasite on mothership means game over. Make it impossible to neutral parasite Mothership. But yeah, I rather see the mothership removed.
Okay I stoped reading after this. Or maybe make neural melee range Mr. Sase? I laughed when he called it neutral parasite, proves how much he knows about zerg right there
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Everything is so so, except infestors, they really need to change that unit.. T.T can't even attack into a zerg that has 10 infestors, siege hoping would take hours and then they have ultras or brood lords and again you gonna tech switch to adapt to that... Zerg feels like Terran playing mech, just defend and sit, and if you already know how to defend then winning game is ezpz... ^.^
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This is something that a) belongs to blog section b) coming from a professional player it sure as hell felt like a big old balance whine.
You should have taken a break after 12 hours of gaming, get some sleep and then make a well thought out post where you at least put some more motivation to all the balance suggestions you have.
Although many of your ideas are good right now it was a list of balance whine.
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On October 19 2012 14:53 Skelith wrote: *Neutral parasite on mothership means game over. Make it impossible to neutral parasite Mothership. But yeah, I rather see the mothership removed.
Okay I stoped reading after this. Or maybe make neural melee range Mr. Sase? ... there's nothing incorrect about what he said
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On October 19 2012 14:57 papaz wrote: This is something that a) belongs to blog section b) coming from a professional player it sure as hell felt like a big old balance whine.
You should have taken a break after 12 hours of gaming, get some sleep and then make a well thought out post where you at least put some more motivation to all the balance suggestions you have.
Although many of your ideas are good right now it was a list of balance whine. What's better then a whine? a dime. :D Okay he did say its 99 cents but fuck it its funny.
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its disgusting how many people are disrepecting sase opinion
i agree with everything, it would help design 100%, might also nerf something here or there for protoss to get even balance, but it would be awesome
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On October 19 2012 15:07 Akhee wrote: its disgusting how many people are disrepecting sase opinion
i agree with everything, it would help design 100%, might also nerf something here or there for protoss to get even balance, but it would be awesome So just because it is sase we should have 20 pages of agreement?
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On October 19 2012 14:53 ImNightmare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 14:43 shockaslim wrote:On October 19 2012 14:27 ImNightmare wrote:On October 19 2012 14:17 shockaslim wrote:On October 19 2012 13:58 FakeDeath wrote: Have Sase watched WCS Asia and WCS Korea? Why is he complaining so much about zergs? When protoss are doing so well at the moment.
Those Korean Toss were literally stomping everybody. I wonder when we can get the stats for September winrate. You mean the highest caliber Protosses on the planet did well against MUCH weaker opponents? Yeaaa ok. RoRo and curious are much weaker? lol. can't believe we have stuffs like this. I was speaking in reference to the other Asian countries players. During WCS Korea Protoss was strong. During WCS Asia you could clearly see that the Koreans (most of them that just HAPPENED to be Protoss) were much much much stronger than everyone else. Even then......did Curious and Roro not qualify? Exactly. Only Korean that didn't was Miya and he really isn't as strong as the others. You are using the argument during the terran OP era where they said most top pros play terran. Its stupid how people seem to think that most top players just happened to be playing a particular race when win rates are huge indication that protoss right now is doing well if not better then zergs and the racial balance in tournaments are proving that toss is more then capable of standing their ground.
That isn't even close to the same argument. I am not saying Protoss players are better.....I am saying THOSE Protoss players were head and shoulders better than all of the other players (of course with a few exceptions of high caliber zergs that could have taken it as well).
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its disgusting how many people are disrepecting sase opinion
i agree with everything, it would help design 100%, might also nerf something here or there for protoss to get even balance, but it would be awesome hahaha pathetic. Make up your own mind, stop being a sheep.
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On October 19 2012 15:07 Akhee wrote: its disgusting how many people are disrepecting sase opinion
i agree with everything, it would help design 100%, might also nerf something here or there for protoss to get even balance, but it would be awesome
Disgusting? His points weren't even well-thought out.
You should look at something like Gretorp thread about balance design that was just recently made. Now that is a good thread.
Agreed with everything?
So do you agreed with putting a timer on spawning pool? Creep give way too much vision???lol I didn't know this was even a problem in ZvP.
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