|
On January 03 2013 00:56 Zyklonzack wrote: Honestly, you and anyone else are probably not going to convince people to buy, or not buy, HOTS. The game will sell, and it will sell very well. You may want to look around for an indie game that meets your needs, or just play BW.
At the core of the issue that is Blizzard is indeed selling the game to make money. To do that, they must expand their customer base as much as possible. Everything that makes the game "easier" to play usually only increases the amount of people playing the game. In reality, the most important people that Blizzard answers to are its shareholders and not the small group of hardcore gamers. AAA releases need to have big numbers to pay for the production and advertising costs. Call of Duty, League of Legends, Halo, etc. are big flagships franchises that need to make big money to justify their development costs. Starcraft is no different.
I am btw a huge fan of Blizzard changing their business model. I think they could rework it so they could monetize esports better, and thus be more incentivized to hire better employees. In the end this could increase SV. Anyway, this is kind of another discussion, not relevant in this topic.
|
I played a couple of games of WoL yesterday with Zerg (after like 3 months pause where I also played few games after 6 months pause :D) and it was not very fun. I just hate playing Zerg as defensive late game race. And all games come to broodlord infestor play. If you want something different then you lose (at least at my platinum level).
HotS games already look more fun for zerg. Roach + Hydra + Viper looks so much more fun then anything Zerg has in WoL and Ultras seem to do better then in WoL. I just wish Swarm Host were as fun as Lurkers... I know I will be using SH almost never.
I been playing SC2BW map and Zerg there is so different and so much more fun, I cannot stand WoL zerg anymore. Good chance is I will just stick with WoL SC2BW map and pirate Hots for campaign only.
|
Absolutly not buying Hots. I'm just watching streams after i got so bored from the game which literally has no variety in gameplay.
Warcraft 3 for example had neutral camps, several heroes, 4 races and a great custom game system. Starcraft 2 has managed to make the first three minutes into mind numbing repetitive bullshit. Has managed to nerf strategies down so that there is at most one or two paths you can choose to play. There are so few units that its always the same shit.
Hots now brings what: A retarded alternative of the hellion und a copied mine from Brood War, at most three units for the other races, a broken balance, lame maps which all look the same, a campaign about a lousy story with more logic holes than in cheese and a dying competitive scene.
Time to leave the board before i sink with it.
|
I have probably spent 1000 hours playing WoL so at $50 money was not the issue. SC is way more economical than anything else I do. Also I ended up spending more on peripherals than the game itself.
I have already pre-ordering HOTS and have played the beta a few times but I mostly do 3s and 4s with friends who still only have WoL so I mostly play WoL still.
Personally I have never liked games that lack early aggression. I thought WoL was better back when there was more rushing. This is one reason I play more 3s and 4s although the bigger reason is I like to socialize with friends.
|
On January 03 2013 00:56 Zyklonzack wrote: Honestly, you and anyone else are probably not going to convince people to buy, or not buy, HOTS. The game will sell, and it will sell very well. You may want to look around for an indie game that meets your needs, or just play BW.
At the core of the issue that is Blizzard is indeed selling the game to make money. To do that, they must expand their customer base as much as possible. Everything that makes the game "easier" to play usually only increases the amount of people playing the game. In reality, the most important people that Blizzard answers to are its shareholders and not the small group of hardcore gamers. AAA releases need to have big numbers to pay for the production and advertising costs. Call of Duty, League of Legends, Halo, etc. are big flagships franchises that need to make big money to justify their development costs. Starcraft is no different.
You can't really compare an RTS game like StarCraft with "stupid" shooters games. RTS games live off their complexity and high skill cap and therefore target completely different customers. If you dumb down the game then you only scare off your core community. Also the success of SC2 correlates to a very large degree to the success of the competitive scene because it constantly raises public visiblity of SC2 for no investment from the developer's side (Blizzard even earns money through licensing).
On the other hand, it's understandable that Blizzard wants to attract as many players as possible for SC2. However, they should (for example) rather focus on the largely broken custom map scene to fix that, as it has been discussed douzens of times previously. Instead, they (amongs other things) introduced a stupid ladder system that should motivate casual players but infact distorts the true skill level of a player, maintain a desastrous map pool without cross spawns and no neutral sepots, and allowed for dumb deathball a-click and allin strategies. All of that was mostly justified by letting the game open for casual players. But first of all, casuals don't really care about that, and second, these changes piss off the core competitive community behind the game. That's not the way Blizzard should go. HotS doesn't change anything in that regard.
|
It's $30 dollars, how is this a problem and thread-worthy? You didn't want to discuss balance, and then you basically did, and you bashed a game you haven't played yet (and you had two "Summary"s hehe). Preorder is 5 bucks at gamestop and the beta key is printed on the reciept, play it and decide if you like it. I currently view them as very different games. I'm in a different mindset when I boot up either. Try a different race or something..
|
On January 02 2013 22:21 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2013 22:03 MilesTeg wrote: With a community like that Starcraft really doesn't need haters... Constructive criticism is good, brainless bashing isn't.
The game is definitely going in the right direction, it just requires fine tuning at this point. Some things (reapers, mines...) just don't work well but they will be fixed. The new units add a ton of flexibility and stability to Zerg and Protoss, and a lot of potential for aggression and harassment. As an aggressive Zerg who's not a big fan of the deathball it's like they made the game for me.
The game is actually so much better than WoL, I just can't play that game anymore (despite the obvious problems that will be fixed by release - not to mention the ridiculous lag). And then you have the improved matchmaking, which will make a huge difference to me... I'm actually really happy with HotS so far. Lets try to analyze whether HOTS actually is a step in the right direction: Steps forward- Speed Medi - Mothercore - Oracle -Infested terrans Steps the wrong way-Void Ray (unless Blizzard can come up with a creative idea like Onegoal does - I think they would be better of just removing the unit). - Reaper (should be make a viable mid/late game harass unit like the mutalisk instead of the current early tvt shit it is now). - Raven (seeker missile is much more boring right now and opponent can't really remicro against it as one could in WOL). - Swarm hosts (most boring unit in the game). Neither good nor bad- Battle hellions. - Thors -Mines (decent vs zerg - but doesn't work the proper way vs toss and terran). - Tempest (honestly kinda boring). - Viper( cloud is an okay ability, however abduct is badly designed). - Fungal growth Missed oppurtunities that we unfortunately won't see in HOTS-Reworking the economy (reducing the efficiency on 1-2-3 bases). - Removing mules/plantaries as they make the game more boring, and compensation terrans with slighly cheper units mineral wise. -Making mines a viable replacent for plantaries (along with a couple of tanks). Right now the current 2 food version doesn't work. There are however, various different approaches one could take to make them better designed; Onegoal's mines are better. Bw mines are beter. Another kind of mines could be mines which have higher DPS but the opponent can remicro against the mines by moving units in a different location after they get activated. -Corrupters are still boring. -Making tank-mech viable tvp (lots of different approaches they could have experimented with - unfortunately they haven't even tried making this work). - Making reapers a viable mid/late game unit (it is actually extremely fun to play around - shouldn't just be a gimmicky unit). - Making Raven's turrets better. -Redesigning the collosus. - Redesigning snipe/emp as the opponent bacially can't remicro against it. - Making the immortal more interesting. - Redesign warpgate tech (in a similar fashion as onegoal does it - though shouldn't have highest priority). - Making protoss less reliable on forcefields. -Differentiering yamato cannons from seeker missile (though I think we will likely see a change in one of the next patches). -Making fungal slow. -Roaches are kinda boring as well (somewhat similar to maurauders - though redesigning both units should have a low priority as they work okay'ish at abusing the opponent's lack of mobility which makes for interesting games). Honestly I have a difficult time seeing how people can be satifisied with how Hots looks currently. I played around 300 games of it (as a terran) and I found speed medis very interesting, but kinda lost motivation right now. Too much missed potential, and overall the game isn't noticeable better than Wol.
1000 % agree with you. SC2 is frustrating for an old BW player like me because of so much macro mechanics like larva injection/warping units/fast harvesting... all this stuff allows you to be maxed on 3 bases after 13 min sucks.
I played a few BW games recently and I miss so much how you needeed to expand everywhere to have a decent army. I miss those tanks/turrets/mines push and those little skirmish fights that makes you "building" victory.
I expected hots would be an opportunity to find back this cool bw stuff but the game will be out in 3 months and i definitely lost hope.
|
On January 03 2013 00:39 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2013 23:42 MilesTeg wrote:On January 02 2013 22:41 Hider wrote:On January 02 2013 22:34 The_Darkness wrote:On January 02 2013 22:21 Hider wrote:On January 02 2013 22:03 MilesTeg wrote: With a community like that Starcraft really doesn't need haters... Constructive criticism is good, brainless bashing isn't.
The game is definitely going in the right direction, it just requires fine tuning at this point. Some things (reapers, mines...) just don't work well but they will be fixed. The new units add a ton of flexibility and stability to Zerg and Protoss, and a lot of potential for aggression and harassment. As an aggressive Zerg who's not a big fan of the deathball it's like they made the game for me.
The game is actually so much better than WoL, I just can't play that game anymore (despite the obvious problems that will be fixed by release - not to mention the ridiculous lag). And then you have the improved matchmaking, which will make a huge difference to me... I'm actually really happy with HotS so far. Lets try to analyze whether HOTS actually is a step in the right direction: Steps forward- Speed Medi - Mothercore - Oracle -Infested terrans Steps the wrong way-Void Ray (unless Blizzard can come up with a creative idea like Onegoal does - I think they would be better of just removing the unit). - Reaper (should be make a viable mid/late game harass unit like the mutalisk instead of the current early tvt shit it is now). - Raven (seeker missile is much more boring right now and opponent can't really remicro against it as one could in WOL). - Swarm hosts (most boring unit in the game). Neither good nor bad- Battle hellions. - Thors -Mines (decent vs zerg - but doesn't work the proper way vs toss and terran). - Tempest (honestly kinda boring). - Viper( cloud is an okay ability, however abduct is badly designed). - Fungal growth Missed oppurtunities that we unfortunately won't see in HOTS-Reworking the economy (reducing the efficiency on 1-2-3 bases). - Removing mules/plantaries as they make the game more boring, and compensation terrans with slighly cheper units mineral wise. -Making mines a viable replacent for plantaries (along with a couple of tanks). Right now the current 2 food version doesn't work. There are however, various different approaches one could take to make them better designed; Onegoal's mines are better. Bw mines are beter. Another kind of mines could be mines which have higher DPS but the opponent can remicro against the mines by moving units in a different location after they get activated. -Corrupters are still boring. -Making tank-mech viable tvp (lots of different approaches they could have experimented with - unfortunately they haven't even tried making this work). - Making reapers a viable mid/late game unit (it is actually extremely fun to play around - shouldn't just be a gimmicky unit). - Making Raven's turrets better. -Redesigning the collosus. - Redesigning snipe/emp as the opponent bacially can't remicro against it. - Making the immortal more interesting. - Redesign warpgate tech (in a similar fashion as onegoal does it - though shouldn't have highest priority). - Making protoss less reliable on forcefields. -Differentiering yamato cannons from seeker missile (though I think we will likely see a change in one of the next patches). -Making fungal slow. Honestly I have a difficult time seeing how people can be satifisied with how Hots looks currently. I played around 300 games of it (as a terran) and I found speed medis very interesting, but kinda lost motivation right now. Too much missed potential, and overall the game isn't noticeable better than Wol. You must have spent at least 30 hours trolling these boards and shitting on various aspects of HoTS. You have already gotten your money's worth from the game and you didn't even purchase it. Also given how much time you spent trolling these boards, I can say with absolute certainty that you will buy HoTS. You're like a guy who constantly bad mouths and picks on a girl, because he likes her and doesn't know how otherwise to express himself. Using logic to make an argument which you disagree with = troll? The reason I enjoy(ed) sc2 has little to do with Dustin Browder and co and more to do with the competent guys who developed BW. The stacraft formula basically could not go completely wrong, even though the current Blizzard guys have made a lot of mistakes. But you know what. You actually got it all wrong. Blizzard should be the one who were thankful. Having people testing the game for free and analyzing the product in detail is extremelye valuable for any company. Blizzard could have developed a much better product if they had spent more time studying proper game design. Using BW as a case study might have been a good idea (clearly, DB didn't do that unfortunately). He's right to be honest. You're the kind of guy who speaks louder than anyone else, and never listens to anything that might challenge your opinion. It's pretty obvious that there's no convincing you, and that if Blizzard does anything that isn't 100% exactly what you, with your superior opinion, think they should do, you will claim that "David Kim is retarded" or "Blizz just doesn't get it". What do you want people to answer? You make claims like "Swarm Host is the most boring unit in the game"... well, as a player I disagree. I think it's the best thing to happen in the game, I think it's better and more fun than the Lurker, I love it. It will take time to figure it out but it might be one of the best and most exciting units in the game, and will in my opinion transform every matchup. The Viper is amazing too, I think in terms of design it's probably better than the defiler. Your missed opportunities are partly stuff that are really just your opinion, and don't forget that they aren't done with the beta either. The infestor, mines, ravens... those things are certainly going to change before release. 1) No he is not right. Look at what he actually wrote; - Troll. No I am not a troll by arguing that Hots isn't worth buying. And to clarifiy my motivation: I really don't want people to buy the game if it turns out to be as bad as expected, and I hope sales figures dissapoints, and DB and co either gets fired and replaced by someone competent. If people just buy the game blindly, Blizzard has no incentive to make the proper changes in the future. - I will definitely buy the game; How does he know that? Why make such a statement. - Picking on a girl... etc...; Doesn't deserve a response. 2) You, however, are writing something else. So let me take a look at your arguments. When I go into an argument I always assume I am right; Yes, what is the big deal? Everybody does that, but the point of the discussion is never to convince the other part, it is to convince other readers/viewers. Do you want me to always go into a dicussion by stating; "I think xxxx", even though that adds nothing to my argument, nothing to the content, its just an emotionel trick to make your self more likeable. But I am not a politican, and I am not in it for the popularity. I am in it for the hard facts and the truth. You argue that my "missed oppurtunities" are filled with my own opinions; Oh sorry, I should have sourced the official "missed opportunities website" instead. Sarcasm off. Honestly, what were you thinking when you wrote that comment? Of course its my own opinions, though I share most of the opinions with the community. Most of the units (with the exception of the ghost I guess) has been discussed many times previously on Teamliquid and I found it unnecessary to go into a lenghty discussion on why starcraft would be better off with those units receiving a proper redesign. Regarding the Swarm Hosts, the main problem with the unit (in my opinion) is that it stagnates mech in tvz. You literraly can't do anything other than massing tanks against hydra/swarm hosts. YOu have to sit and turtle in location X forever... You can't push forward or anything. Your trapped. These kinds of games are insanely boring, and another problem with the unit is that it just isn't good in small numbers. It needs to be "massed" to be efficient. You may think (as a possible zerg player) that it is fun to play against. But try play mech against someone who masses it and you will bore your self to death. Honestly, I also think that turtle mech can be found to execute, but its a pain in the ass to play against, and hopelessly boring for the spectator, thus it is bad design. Abduct is a bad designed spell, because you can't remicro against. But if you disagree with my other suggestions, you are free to argue why you think starcraft couldn't be a better game if corrupters/collosus's.........etc. got redesigned. Do you really think those units are that entertaining? Then you assume that people will figure stuff out. IMO that is the wrong approach. What if it doens't get figured out? Fungal never got figured out, actually infestors just got even more boring to play against over time. You "figure out" guys always assumes that it only goes the one way, e.g. it will always improve the game. But if you doesn't have a proper theoretical understanding of the unit, it could just as well go the other way (when it gets figued out).
Everyone is entitled to his opinions, but you write as though your poorly thought out opinions are truth itself. You spend countless hours whining about a game that you don't like and thereby force everyone in these forums to read and re-read your opinions regarding "design" as though we should take your word that some unit is poorly designed based on your playing a few hundred games of HoTS at (I'm guessing) a level substantially below professional play.
As an aside, I find the BW dogmatists' (of which you are a key member) line of critique of HoTS particularly obnoxious. To take just one example from the BW dogmatists' canon of HoTS and WOL criticisms, X spell is "bad game design" because it's an anti micro spell. Since the BW dogmatists believe that BW is perfect in every way, I find this criticism extremely hypocritical given, e.g., the importance of the arbiter and the stasis spell in pvt. Everyone is entitled to his opinion but we do not need to be subject to blatant hypocrisy. I also find it extraordinarily arrogant of you to imply that there is an agreed set of rules you must follow for good game design and that you know those rules inside and out, as though you've successfully developed an RTS game in the past. When you say something like "bad game design" you should instead say "I simply do not like X feature" because that is all you can mean.
Clearly, it is possible to criticize HoTS, but the exceptionally arrogant way you and a bunch of other BW dogmatists go about it is simply nauseous.
|
Thirty bucks is cheap. Going to the movies costs about that.
|
hood take me, i am gonna buy this game but am i satisfied with its current state? ...not at all
|
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Hots definaly worths it, because Flashpoint part of story was epic and action intensive
|
Well worth it and an extra 8.95 with Warhounds included.
|
|
On January 02 2013 23:30 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2013 22:37 KrazyTrumpet wrote: I've very much enjoyed watching/playing the beta. It's definitely different, with some new possibilities. The UI and BNet changes are also quite welcome.
As far as the "it's still deathball vs deathball!" argument, well...it's still only been out for a couple months, and hardly any of the game's top players have really put any time into it. Unfortunately, we likely won't start seeing huge shifts in gameplay until the tournament level players are focusing full time on the game. Oh come on ... the "it's still only been out for a couple months" argument doesnt really work, because you need DRASTIC changes to add risks to using a deathball. Blizzard hasnt done that and its not going to come from strategy. Without penalty people will still go for the most effective "big army" composition.
Erm, do you remember how long everyone was doing one base all ins at the start of WoL? Little metagame shifts like we've been seeing recently don't take that long to happen, but completely new strategy ideas and ways of engaging are going to take time to figure out. The tools are definitely there, albeit with some tweaking still needed.
|
Definitely going to buy. The bad reviews you read are often from people who don't really like SC2 and never have, so when you read long descriptions on how SC2 fails you're really reading an opinion that never gave the game a chance. If you don't like American Football, no amount of talk about John Elway is going to change your mind. My opinion is that WoL had problems, but they were minor and were problems only in how Blizzards vision of the game differed from my vision on how it should have been. In HotS, they are continuing with their vision, and it actually has been realigned with what I thought it should be.
Sorry, but expanding in BW wasn't that fun. In BW, I just wanted to fight, not build 20 bases before it made sense for me to do so. Having to build those bases was a cool multi-tasking exercise, though. In HotS, those multi-tasking exercises are back but they're combat-oriented now, not macro-oriented.
I play Protoss at Masters level in WoL and HotS. My first tech variation doesn't have to be a robo anymore. I can leave my base vs Zerg. There are new unit compositions that require me to handle them in a totally different way, but I can still use the same unit I have already made. Strategies are no longer binary or singular in certain matchups. HotS is a good game.
EDIT: Also, 30 bucks isn't a lot. Watching streams right now isn't a good gauge either on if you will like the game or not. This is because you aren't seeing HotS as it will be played in November of 2013, and that comes down to two reasons: either you are watching a pros and they are playing the tried and true method of winning (deathball), or you are watching a lower level player that tries strategies that don't work but could if they were executed better!
|
On January 03 2013 02:28 Scrubwave wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2013 18:43 playa wrote: It ranks up there with Goldeneye and Ocarina of Time. Ouch. Can't be THAT bad. Buying hots after what they turned WOL into and the diablo 3 fiasco? No thanks.
wtf are u talking about? You kids should go outside some and get some fresh air and perspective . Or just go and play LoL as everybody else of the losers, u cant handle starcraft admit it
User was temp banned for this post.
|
On January 03 2013 02:38 Sup3rior wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 02:28 Scrubwave wrote:On January 02 2013 18:43 playa wrote: It ranks up there with Goldeneye and Ocarina of Time. Ouch. Can't be THAT bad. Buying hots after what they turned WOL into and the diablo 3 fiasco? No thanks. wtf are u talking about? You kids should go outside some and get some fresh air and perspective . Or just go and play LoL as everybody else of the losers, u cant handle starcraft admit it They doom/gloomers, their appreciation of Starcraft2 doesn't actually have anything to do with the game itself.
|
On January 03 2013 01:56 The_Darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 00:39 Hider wrote:On January 02 2013 23:42 MilesTeg wrote:On January 02 2013 22:41 Hider wrote:On January 02 2013 22:34 The_Darkness wrote:On January 02 2013 22:21 Hider wrote:On January 02 2013 22:03 MilesTeg wrote: With a community like that Starcraft really doesn't need haters... Constructive criticism is good, brainless bashing isn't.
The game is definitely going in the right direction, it just requires fine tuning at this point. Some things (reapers, mines...) just don't work well but they will be fixed. The new units add a ton of flexibility and stability to Zerg and Protoss, and a lot of potential for aggression and harassment. As an aggressive Zerg who's not a big fan of the deathball it's like they made the game for me.
The game is actually so much better than WoL, I just can't play that game anymore (despite the obvious problems that will be fixed by release - not to mention the ridiculous lag). And then you have the improved matchmaking, which will make a huge difference to me... I'm actually really happy with HotS so far. Lets try to analyze whether HOTS actually is a step in the right direction: Steps forward- Speed Medi - Mothercore - Oracle -Infested terrans Steps the wrong way-Void Ray (unless Blizzard can come up with a creative idea like Onegoal does - I think they would be better of just removing the unit). - Reaper (should be make a viable mid/late game harass unit like the mutalisk instead of the current early tvt shit it is now). - Raven (seeker missile is much more boring right now and opponent can't really remicro against it as one could in WOL). - Swarm hosts (most boring unit in the game). Neither good nor bad- Battle hellions. - Thors -Mines (decent vs zerg - but doesn't work the proper way vs toss and terran). - Tempest (honestly kinda boring). - Viper( cloud is an okay ability, however abduct is badly designed). - Fungal growth Missed oppurtunities that we unfortunately won't see in HOTS-Reworking the economy (reducing the efficiency on 1-2-3 bases). - Removing mules/plantaries as they make the game more boring, and compensation terrans with slighly cheper units mineral wise. -Making mines a viable replacent for plantaries (along with a couple of tanks). Right now the current 2 food version doesn't work. There are however, various different approaches one could take to make them better designed; Onegoal's mines are better. Bw mines are beter. Another kind of mines could be mines which have higher DPS but the opponent can remicro against the mines by moving units in a different location after they get activated. -Corrupters are still boring. -Making tank-mech viable tvp (lots of different approaches they could have experimented with - unfortunately they haven't even tried making this work). - Making reapers a viable mid/late game unit (it is actually extremely fun to play around - shouldn't just be a gimmicky unit). - Making Raven's turrets better. -Redesigning the collosus. - Redesigning snipe/emp as the opponent bacially can't remicro against it. - Making the immortal more interesting. - Redesign warpgate tech (in a similar fashion as onegoal does it - though shouldn't have highest priority). - Making protoss less reliable on forcefields. -Differentiering yamato cannons from seeker missile (though I think we will likely see a change in one of the next patches). -Making fungal slow. Honestly I have a difficult time seeing how people can be satifisied with how Hots looks currently. I played around 300 games of it (as a terran) and I found speed medis very interesting, but kinda lost motivation right now. Too much missed potential, and overall the game isn't noticeable better than Wol. You must have spent at least 30 hours trolling these boards and shitting on various aspects of HoTS. You have already gotten your money's worth from the game and you didn't even purchase it. Also given how much time you spent trolling these boards, I can say with absolute certainty that you will buy HoTS. You're like a guy who constantly bad mouths and picks on a girl, because he likes her and doesn't know how otherwise to express himself. Using logic to make an argument which you disagree with = troll? The reason I enjoy(ed) sc2 has little to do with Dustin Browder and co and more to do with the competent guys who developed BW. The stacraft formula basically could not go completely wrong, even though the current Blizzard guys have made a lot of mistakes. But you know what. You actually got it all wrong. Blizzard should be the one who were thankful. Having people testing the game for free and analyzing the product in detail is extremelye valuable for any company. Blizzard could have developed a much better product if they had spent more time studying proper game design. Using BW as a case study might have been a good idea (clearly, DB didn't do that unfortunately). He's right to be honest. You're the kind of guy who speaks louder than anyone else, and never listens to anything that might challenge your opinion. It's pretty obvious that there's no convincing you, and that if Blizzard does anything that isn't 100% exactly what you, with your superior opinion, think they should do, you will claim that "David Kim is retarded" or "Blizz just doesn't get it". What do you want people to answer? You make claims like "Swarm Host is the most boring unit in the game"... well, as a player I disagree. I think it's the best thing to happen in the game, I think it's better and more fun than the Lurker, I love it. It will take time to figure it out but it might be one of the best and most exciting units in the game, and will in my opinion transform every matchup. The Viper is amazing too, I think in terms of design it's probably better than the defiler. Your missed opportunities are partly stuff that are really just your opinion, and don't forget that they aren't done with the beta either. The infestor, mines, ravens... those things are certainly going to change before release. 1) No he is not right. Look at what he actually wrote; - Troll. No I am not a troll by arguing that Hots isn't worth buying. And to clarifiy my motivation: I really don't want people to buy the game if it turns out to be as bad as expected, and I hope sales figures dissapoints, and DB and co either gets fired and replaced by someone competent. If people just buy the game blindly, Blizzard has no incentive to make the proper changes in the future. - I will definitely buy the game; How does he know that? Why make such a statement. - Picking on a girl... etc...; Doesn't deserve a response. 2) You, however, are writing something else. So let me take a look at your arguments. When I go into an argument I always assume I am right; Yes, what is the big deal? Everybody does that, but the point of the discussion is never to convince the other part, it is to convince other readers/viewers. Do you want me to always go into a dicussion by stating; "I think xxxx", even though that adds nothing to my argument, nothing to the content, its just an emotionel trick to make your self more likeable. But I am not a politican, and I am not in it for the popularity. I am in it for the hard facts and the truth. You argue that my "missed oppurtunities" are filled with my own opinions; Oh sorry, I should have sourced the official "missed opportunities website" instead. Sarcasm off. Honestly, what were you thinking when you wrote that comment? Of course its my own opinions, though I share most of the opinions with the community. Most of the units (with the exception of the ghost I guess) has been discussed many times previously on Teamliquid and I found it unnecessary to go into a lenghty discussion on why starcraft would be better off with those units receiving a proper redesign. Regarding the Swarm Hosts, the main problem with the unit (in my opinion) is that it stagnates mech in tvz. You literraly can't do anything other than massing tanks against hydra/swarm hosts. YOu have to sit and turtle in location X forever... You can't push forward or anything. Your trapped. These kinds of games are insanely boring, and another problem with the unit is that it just isn't good in small numbers. It needs to be "massed" to be efficient. You may think (as a possible zerg player) that it is fun to play against. But try play mech against someone who masses it and you will bore your self to death. Honestly, I also think that turtle mech can be found to execute, but its a pain in the ass to play against, and hopelessly boring for the spectator, thus it is bad design. Abduct is a bad designed spell, because you can't remicro against. But if you disagree with my other suggestions, you are free to argue why you think starcraft couldn't be a better game if corrupters/collosus's.........etc. got redesigned. Do you really think those units are that entertaining? Then you assume that people will figure stuff out. IMO that is the wrong approach. What if it doens't get figured out? Fungal never got figured out, actually infestors just got even more boring to play against over time. You "figure out" guys always assumes that it only goes the one way, e.g. it will always improve the game. But if you doesn't have a proper theoretical understanding of the unit, it could just as well go the other way (when it gets figued out). Everyone is entitled to his opinions, but you write as though your poorly thought out opinions are truth itself. You spend countless hours whining about a game that you don't like and thereby force everyone in these forums to read and re-read your opinions regarding "design" as though we should take your word that some unit is poorly designed based on your playing a few hundred games of HoTS at (I'm guessing) a level substantially below professional play. As an aside, I find the BW dogmatists' (of which you are a key member) line of critique of HoTS particularly obnoxious. To take just one example from the BW dogmatists' canon of HoTS and WOL criticisms, X spell is "bad game design" because it's an anti micro spell. Since the BW dogmatists believe that BW is perfect in every way, I find this criticism extremely hypocritical given, e.g., the importance of the arbiter and the stasis spell in pvt. Everyone is entitled to his opinion but we do not need to be subject to blatant hypocrisy. I also find it extraordinarily arrogant of you to imply that there is an agreed set of rules you must follow for good game design and that you know those rules inside and out, as though you've successfully developed an RTS game in the past. When you say something like "bad game design" you should instead say "I simply do not like X feature" because that is all you can mean. Clearly, it is possible to criticize HoTS, but the exceptionally arrogant way you and a bunch of other BW dogmatists go about it is simply nauseous.
Sir, I could not agree with you more and I love the term "BW dogmatists". I have grown so tired of the ever shifting arguments this subset of the community has latched onto. The overuse of the words "design" and ingorning key facts about BW like that Stasis exisited drives me up the wall and soured some of my enjoyment of the beta. Although they are entitled criticize HotS, I feel this subset also goes of their way to derail any discussion from people who are enthusiastic about HotS or a specific play style.
|
is awesome32244 Posts
After Diablo 3 and WoL im not blindly buying Blizzard games anymore.
|
On January 03 2013 02:28 Scrubwave wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2013 18:43 playa wrote: It ranks up there with Goldeneye and Ocarina of Time. Ouch. Can't be THAT bad. Buying hots after what they turned WOL into and the diablo 3 fiasco? No thanks. What Diablo 3 fiasco? You mean the PC only game that sold well over 8 million copies world wide? One of the highest selling PC games in years. The 5th most searched for term in 2012 as rated by Google. The game where they banned thousands of accounts for using bots just last month.
People need to stop drinking their own Cool-Aid.
|
|
|
|