https://us.battle.net/forums/en/starcraft/topic/20758647830
Mirrors in SC:R Ladder - Page 4
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FyRe_DragOn
Canada2049 Posts
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/starcraft/topic/20758647830 | ||
jaeboss
68 Posts
On August 18 2017 04:06 ROOTFayth wrote: Well I obviously don't have any statistics but I have rarely seen somebody saying their favorite match up was the mirror one There's a difference between not liking mirrors and wanting a ladder system that allows you to avoid them. I hate mirrors but I am strongly against being able to avoid them in match making. | ||
playa
United States1284 Posts
On August 18 2017 04:02 Autumn22 wrote: I strongly oppose this idea and feel it harms the legitimacy of the ladder. 1/3 of the game is mirror matchups, that's what Brood War is. If you'd like a modified game, feel free to setup whatever arbitrary rules/conditions you want in a non-ladder match. But I expect that when I'm playing the official ladder of Brood War that I will be playing the real Brood War, not some awkward ad-hoc system where people can arbitrarily dodge 1/3 of the game. I would be very upset if they bastardized the ladder with this option. It taints the point system, simplifies the game, and would obviously be unworkable with random players (oh hey I'm Terran and have turned off mirrors, I can now infer my random opponent is P or Z. Oh hey I'm random, I wonder if my opponent turned off mirrors and know already ruled out I'm not Terran, who knows!) No no no. Thankfully this will NEVER happen so the discussion is moot. You can race pick in most tournaments. Since when was the ladder some untouched innocent virgin, of pristineness? Have you ever played iccup? Yeah, you could race pick there, just like any other BW ladder ever. Number of complaints? Zero. However, you often will play games and not even know what race you're playing against until you're already set on your opener and building position. Scouting with your first worker won't even allow you to have things proper. That's a joke, and I don't care what any of you say. A lot more of a joke than allowing race picking, that's for sure. I'm actually trying to learn a mirror now. I just want to T vs Z instead of P vs Z. Why make people waste years of practice due to lazy programmers? | ||
ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
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playa
United States1284 Posts
On August 18 2017 04:13 ROOTFayth wrote: playa you seem to have big issues with random but you know you can just find an overall safe build vs all 3 races right? I'm pretty sure my winrate vs random players is very very high The only reason anyone would have a high win rate vs random is due to being a lot better than the other guy. Congratulations on that, though. Too bad there aren't more Testies to force this long overdue change. I'd rather play vs hackers. | ||
FyRe_DragOn
Canada2049 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On August 18 2017 04:17 playa wrote: The only reason anyone would have a high win rate vs random is due to being a lot better than the other guy. Congratulations on that, though. Too bad there aren't more Testies to force this long overdue change. I'd rather play vs hackers. I mean most random players aren't that good. All you have to do is play a safe build order and you'll beat most randoms. | ||
EndingLife
United States1558 Posts
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EndingLife
United States1558 Posts
On August 18 2017 04:20 FyRe_DragOn wrote: I agree that playing vs random is bullshit, especially on certain maps, but I doubt blizzard will remove random, so the best I can hope for this that they will show what race they actually are in the countdown. Removing random makes no sense. | ||
rauk
United States2228 Posts
also i support racepicking mirrors on ladder, it's what every ladder system for the last 20 years of bw has let you do and i don't see any compelling reason to change it now | ||
EndingLife
United States1558 Posts
On August 18 2017 04:20 blade55555 wrote: I mean most random players aren't that good. All you have to do is play a safe build order and you'll beat most randoms. You obviously haven't encountered any good random players. There are only about 5-6 random players that play ALL races at a high level anyways, so playing against random shouldn't really be an issue. | ||
Lazare1969
United States318 Posts
TvT is usually decided by tactics or build order gambles, not because you misclicked your reaver or didn't dodge a scourge. That's why people like to compare TvT to chess. | ||
arb
Noobville17915 Posts
Only been one well known player who played ZvP TvZ PvT anyway im pretty sure | ||
EndingLife
United States1558 Posts
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Valikyr
Sweden2653 Posts
I don't understand why they couldn't just announce the race of the random player though. Like play random if you want but getting an unfair advantage like that has always been annoying. | ||
ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
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EndingLife
United States1558 Posts
On August 18 2017 04:31 Valikyr wrote: I don't understand why they couldn't just announce the race of the random player though. Like play random if you want but getting an unfair advantage like that has always been annoying. That would defeat the purpose of playing random in the first place. Most random players play random because they enjoy playing all races and want the added surprise factor for learning ALL races. I think it's more than fair to allow someone who can play all races at the same level to have a slight advantage over the player who plays strictly one race. I really wish some of the older players who have been playing the same race forever would venture into playing random. It's so much fun at a high level. | ||
shall_burn
252 Posts
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Lazare1969
United States318 Posts
On August 18 2017 04:37 EndingLife wrote: That would defeat the purpose of playing random in the first place. Random players play random because they enjoy playing all races and want the added surprise factor for learning ALL races at a high level. I think it's more than fair to allow someone who can play all races at the same level to have a slight advantage over the player who plays strictly one race. I disagree. I only play random because it's fun, not because I want an advantage. On the other side, being the person who chose a race but has to play against a random makes the game boring because you are limited to one safe build. Random should not mean unknown. | ||
playa
United States1284 Posts
On August 18 2017 04:36 ROOTFayth wrote: how is it an advantage if you need 3 times as much practice to reach the same level That is such a lame saying. It's only seems hard to us cause we haven't bothered to try. For anyone who plays both sides of a matchup, they know how much easier it is to learn when they already know the other side. Playing random, their rate of improvement is going to be way higher, even if they practice "x" matchup less. And a lot of people aren't even practicing anything... they're just doing an abusive cheese build in each matchup to exploit the fact you don't even know what race you're playing against, much less what they're doing. It's like Crank in SC 2. He would go random, and anytime he got Toss, he would proxy 2 gate. EVERY GAME. There is absolutely nothing you can do vs that, without knowing their race. If random players want to feel so special, give them a special badge/avatar to remind them how noble and cool they are. Maybe something that says "your moms loves you." Also, random players "always" play against an opponent, while knowing their race. On the other hand, you have some bs builds vs random that you use every now and then. You're getting way less practice than they are in a sense. | ||
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