This article which trawled through some law enforcement message boards (some of which require police ID to register on), shows a pretty chilling attitude towards this from the law enforcement world.
Staten Island Resident Eric Garner Dies after Chokehold fr…
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22201 Posts
This article which trawled through some law enforcement message boards (some of which require police ID to register on), shows a pretty chilling attitude towards this from the law enforcement world. | ||
Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
On July 22 2014 18:59 ahswtini wrote: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/cops-react-to-the-death-of-eric-garner.html This article which trawled through some law enforcement message boards (some of which require police ID to register on), shows a pretty chilling attitude towards this from the law enforcement world. oh man...some of those comments...:S:S | ||
Ghostcom
Denmark4776 Posts
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Skilledblob
Germany3392 Posts
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Trustworthy-Tony
Tanzania187 Posts
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Grovbolle
Denmark3803 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands20760 Posts
On July 22 2014 20:37 Grovbolle wrote: Wasn't he resisting arrest? Or was I just missing something from the video? Resisting arrest allows them to pin you down, not choke you and must certainly not choke you to death. | ||
Hagen0
Germany765 Posts
On July 22 2014 19:48 Skilledblob wrote: wow some of those comments are just disgusting. there wasnt even a need to cuff the guy. shit like this makes me appreciate our police -_- Cases excessive of police violence come up in Germany pretty regularly. And the usual reactions to them are the same as well. Police close their ranks against the outside and the perpetrators are shielded from accountability by judges and the justice system in general. | ||
Socup
190 Posts
The people with the most power are the ones who should be trusted the least, and police using 8+ guys to tackle and kill some homeless person, some black person, or some other person who was "resisting arrest" somehow with that many people on them, this isn't new. This is so common in the U.S. and because nothing is done about it, the public outcry dies after a week, then they continue doing it, and I think even encourages more of it because others see that nothing bad happens so they can get away with it. On July 22 2014 23:03 Hagen0 wrote: Cases excessive of police violence come up in Germany pretty regularly. And the usual reactions to them are the same as well. Police close their ranks against the outside and the perpetrators are shielded from accountability by judges and the justice system in general. Almost like it's a gang or a mafia, instead of a system of justice and accountability. But noone's going to protest, noone cares enough. People clearly don't mind at the end of the day, that's the message I see when this stuff does not turn into protests or flat out riots. On July 22 2014 07:21 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Think of Cops as psychopaths but don't treat them as sub-human. There really is no difference. We treat rapists and murderers as sub-human. Psychopaths and sociopaths are the type of people who do that stuff. Why treat them differently because they have finagled a badge? | ||
[BSP]Kain
119 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States21792 Posts
On July 23 2014 02:04 Socup wrote: We know aggressive sociopaths choose to wear badges to have "authority". I've never trusted any authority figure unless they earn it. Just because you can get a state sanction to screw with people or even kill them doesn't make you my authority. The people with the most power are the ones who should be trusted the least, and police using 8+ guys to tackle and kill some homeless person, some black person, or some other person who was "resisting arrest" somehow with that many people on them, this isn't new. This is so common in the U.S. and because nothing is done about it, the public outcry dies after a week, then they continue doing it, and I think even encourages more of it because others see that nothing bad happens so they can get away with it. Almost like it's a gang or a mafia, instead of a system of justice and accountability. But noone's going to protest, noone cares enough. People clearly don't mind at the end of the day, that's the message I see when this stuff does not turn into protests or flat out riots. There really is no difference. We treat rapists and murderers as sub-human. Psychopaths and sociopaths are the type of people who do that stuff. Why treat them differently because they have finagled a badge? The reason is similar to why we don't care that 1 out of 25 prisoners is raped in prison. If one out of every 2 dozen donuts we bought had been raped we would be livid and prisoners are people not pastries. (paraphrased from Jon Oliver) People who know someone or can imagine themselves being in similar situations get pretty upset, but those who don't think that could ever be them simply don't. Seeing as how about 8/10 of these are black people and black people only make up about 1/10 of the population it's kind of obvious why nothing ever gets done. "It's not MY problem" | ||
Hagen0
Germany765 Posts
Say if you are a police officer and some protester made an allegation that he was badly beat up by a colleague of yours. You'd almost certainly intitially disbelieve it or be highly sceptical. Don't claim otherwise. That's just how human beings work. Even if there were solid evidence you'd have psychological incentives to marginalise the occurence to yourself and before others. You'd also not want see the life of your colleague or friend destroyed (He'd lose his job at a minimum.) so you might downplay the event in court hearings, lie about it or even destroy evidence. There all kinds of way to rationalize this: "People were throwing stones at him just prior to the event. He was afraid and snapped. No need to to destroy his life over a one-time mistake." and so forth. You may not even be aware that you lying about the event. Our attitudes and presuppositions change the way we perceive and remember events. That is one reason witness accounts are notoriously unreliable. | ||
brian
United States9531 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands20760 Posts
On July 23 2014 04:03 Hagen0 wrote: Demonizing policemen is unfair and it gets you nowhere since you are not addressing the issues. It's a completely typical human reaction to value the statements of your colleagues and friends higher than that of outsiders. Organizations like a police force develop a kind of group think on top of that. Say if you are a police officer and some protester made an allegation that he was badly beat up by a colleague of yours. You'd almost certainly intitially disbelieve it or be highly sceptical. Don't claim otherwise. That's just how human beings work. Even if there were solid evidence you'd have psychological incentives to marginalise the occurence to yourself and before others. You'd also not want see the life of your colleague or friend destroyed (He'd lose his job at a minimum.) so you might downplay the event in court hearings, lie about it or even destroy evidence. There all kinds of way to rationalize this: "People were throwing stones at him just prior to the event. He was afraid and snapped. No need to to destroy his life over a one-time mistake." and so forth. You may not even be aware that you lying about the event. Our attitudes and presuppositions change the way we perceive and remember events. That is one reason witness accounts are notoriously unreliable. The police are a very public function that is held in high regards. I understand your point but the reality is that if your colleague snapped he wasn't fit for service in the police. They are held in to such high standard precisely because they are around to protect the general public and we have to be able to trust them to do so under pretty much any circumstance. | ||
Crushinator
Netherlands2138 Posts
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Hagen0
Germany765 Posts
The key to the issue is not even to prosecute the offenders (although this has to be done) but to put procedures and safeguards into place to minimize and avoid police brutality. Having said that the culture and political climate in the US makes this particularly difficult. | ||
GreenHorizons
United States21792 Posts
On July 23 2014 04:51 Hagen0 wrote: I'm not defending this group think behaviour described above. Neither is the incident in the OP in any way acceptable. I just tried to explain why police violence is a given basically everywhere and why it is so often hushed over. In the posts prior to mine people were writing thinks like "psychopaths" and "sub-human" that are inhuman and unhelpful in understanding the issue. Police work is a genuinely shitty job, dangerous, stressful and badly paid. The key to the issue is not even to prosecute the offenders (although this has to be done) but to put procedures and safeguards into place to minimize and avoid police brutality. Having said that the culture and political climate in the US makes this particularly difficult. Like what? The guy who started choking him waved and smiled at the camera while he was dying? Obviously this isn't a procedure thing it's a much larger feeling of impunity. The 'no need to ruin his life for a one-time mistake' generalized justification is particularly infuriating because that is precisely what the police do every day to people. Tons of crimes go unsolved because they have no detectives and hundreds of ticket writers, and drug law heroes who eventually get tired of just writing tickets, violating 4th amendment rights and sending people through the justice system for minor possession charges then randomly beat the shit out of some unsuspecting person for no real reason. | ||
Hagen0
Germany765 Posts
I will stand by this: Even though the acts in the OP and the one you referenced are reprehensible demonising the indivual policemen who perpetrated them will get you nowhere. Of course they need to stand trial for their actions but more importantly these incidents are symptoms of much deeper issues. These issues need to be addressed. (Before you reply that you were demonising on one the people I answered did, hence my initial post.) | ||
GreenHorizons
United States21792 Posts
On July 23 2014 05:09 Hagen0 wrote: Look, you don't have to convince me. I believe that the US police is at least in part an instrument of repression. I was just trying to add to the conversation. I will stand by this: Even though the acts in the OP and the one you referenced are reprehensible demonising the indivual policemen who perpetrated them will get you nowhere. Of course they need to stand trial for their actions but more importantly these incidents are symptoms of much deeper issues. These issues need to be addressed. (Before you reply that you were demonising on one the people I answered did, hence my initial post.) I get your point, it's just that police are in a unique position, having corrupt police is like having non-patriotic military members. We have to hold the people in those positions to standards higher than our general population due to the nature of their profession. I suppose if you say the same about generic criminals than I can see your point more clearly but if you are suggesting that police be extended some expanded form of compassion (I would argue they need a more stringent level of expectation) I would have to strongly disagree. So if you are against demonizing all criminals (gets tougher when you are dealing with pedo's) I get it, a more compassionate view than most, but I appreciate the perspective. However, if you are suggesting officers these in particular, deserve a more empathetic treatment than anyone else I would disagree. | ||
Lucumo
6850 Posts
On July 23 2014 04:51 Hagen0 wrote: I'm not defending this group think behaviour described above. Neither is the incident in the OP in any way acceptable. I just tried to explain why police violence is a given basically everywhere and why it is so often hushed over. In the posts prior to mine people were writing thinks like "psychopaths" and "sub-human" that are inhuman and unhelpful in understanding the issue. Police work is a genuinely shitty job, dangerous, stressful and badly paid. The key to the issue is not even to prosecute the offenders (although this has to be done) but to put procedures and safeguards into place to minimize and avoid police brutality. Having said that the culture and political climate in the US makes this particularly difficult. I didn't know one person counts as "people" nowadays. On July 22 2014 07:21 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Think of Cops as psychopaths but don't treat them as sub-human. They should punish the ones responsible really hard. Considering they are with the police force, it makes the crime even worse. Everything is well-documented, so it wouldn't make sense not to do that. The objective is to deter them from doing something like that again. So demonizing such acts would be one way to go. This would require the media's help but I doubt this will ever happen and this incident won't change anything. | ||
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