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Okay, the video posted in the OP is extremely biased. I read the thread before watching the video, and I'm glad I did, because my expectations were much higher than what I actually witnessed. Everything the police did in arresting this man seemed fine -- EXCEPT for the chokehold. It definitely did not appear like the officer chokeholding him had any intent of murdering him. The brutality has been way over exaggerated.
That being said, when a civilian accidentally kills someone, there are consequences. The officer chokeholding Garner neglected legal conduct and a man died for it, and subsequently should face criminal prosecution. Garner was definitely resisting arrest when he was on his feet; when he was on the ground he was in no position to resist, and could at most threaten the police officers with a broken nose from a flailing elbow. I'd gladly have my nose broken if it meant someone could be alive.
Also, the comments made on the police forum are absolutely disgusting.
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I expect them to say he's still breathing. After all, they seem to think if you can talk, you can breathe, so by saying you can't breathe, you're just trying to deceive them so you can resist further. Also note how he was lying there, unconscious and quickly dying, but at least he was breathing. If they bothered to talk with the man at all it wouldn't have happened, but once it did they sure as hell didn't do anything to help him. Pretty sick watching a group of people, ALL of whom should be capable of first aid, standing around and waiting for him to die. EMS didn't do shit either. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live there.
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Such cops are in every country - problem is their colleagues go easy on them if they happen to break law.
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Wow that video was disturbing; that is just plain murder.
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On July 23 2014 06:36 rd wrote: Okay, the video posted in the OP is extremely biased. I read the thread before watching the video, and I'm glad I did, because my expectations were much higher than what I actually witnessed. Everything the police did in arresting this man seemed fine -- EXCEPT for the chokehold. It definitely did not appear like the officer chokeholding him had any intent of murdering him. The brutality has been way over exaggerated.
That being said, when a civilian accidentally kills someone, there are consequences. The officer chokeholding Garner neglected legal conduct and a man died for it, and subsequently should face criminal prosecution. Garner was definitely resisting arrest when he was on his feet; when he was on the ground he was in no position to resist, and could at most threaten the police officers with a broken nose from a flailing elbow. I'd gladly have my nose broken if it meant someone could be alive.
Also, the comments made on the police forum are absolutely disgusting.
Yeah, I hear him being dead is also highly exaggerated. The dudes is probably chilling somewhere.
-_-
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On July 23 2014 14:26 Odoakar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 06:36 rd wrote: Okay, the video posted in the OP is extremely biased. I read the thread before watching the video, and I'm glad I did, because my expectations were much higher than what I actually witnessed. Everything the police did in arresting this man seemed fine -- EXCEPT for the chokehold. It definitely did not appear like the officer chokeholding him had any intent of murdering him. The brutality has been way over exaggerated.
That being said, when a civilian accidentally kills someone, there are consequences. The officer chokeholding Garner neglected legal conduct and a man died for it, and subsequently should face criminal prosecution. Garner was definitely resisting arrest when he was on his feet; when he was on the ground he was in no position to resist, and could at most threaten the police officers with a broken nose from a flailing elbow. I'd gladly have my nose broken if it meant someone could be alive.
Also, the comments made on the police forum are absolutely disgusting.
Yeah, I hear him being dead is also highly exaggerated. The dudes is probably chilling somewhere. -_-
ok. Come back when you watch some of the other notorious police brutality videos and actually witness a psychotic cop attempt to murder a suspect with intent.
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On July 24 2014 04:14 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 14:26 Odoakar wrote:On July 23 2014 06:36 rd wrote: Okay, the video posted in the OP is extremely biased. I read the thread before watching the video, and I'm glad I did, because my expectations were much higher than what I actually witnessed. Everything the police did in arresting this man seemed fine -- EXCEPT for the chokehold. It definitely did not appear like the officer chokeholding him had any intent of murdering him. The brutality has been way over exaggerated.
That being said, when a civilian accidentally kills someone, there are consequences. The officer chokeholding Garner neglected legal conduct and a man died for it, and subsequently should face criminal prosecution. Garner was definitely resisting arrest when he was on his feet; when he was on the ground he was in no position to resist, and could at most threaten the police officers with a broken nose from a flailing elbow. I'd gladly have my nose broken if it meant someone could be alive.
Also, the comments made on the police forum are absolutely disgusting.
Yeah, I hear him being dead is also highly exaggerated. The dudes is probably chilling somewhere. -_- ok. Come back when you watch some of the other notorious police brutality videos and actually witness a psychotic cop attempt to murder a suspect with intent. Who the fuck cares how violent it looked? The dude is fucking dead... He got choked out in cold blood and was murdered.
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Hope he gets convicted of murder.
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Damn...hate cops more and more every day.......This is ridiculuos and a terrible thing......god bless the man who passed away due to this ridiculousness, and his family.....
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Law clearly states police officers are prohibited from chokeholds. Officer performs chokehold. He should probably be tried for something like involuntary manslaughter, and personally I find the evidence compelling enough to convict him.
Other than that there's not much to add in terms of shit throwing. It was a very unfortunate outcome and I hope the justice system gives this the proper due process it deserves.
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On July 23 2014 06:36 rd wrote: Okay, the video posted in the OP is extremely biased. I read the thread before watching the video, and I'm glad I did, because my expectations were much higher than what I actually witnessed. Everything the police did in arresting this man seemed fine -- EXCEPT for the chokehold. It definitely did not appear like the officer chokeholding him had any intent of murdering him. The brutality has been way over exaggerated.
That being said, when a civilian accidentally kills someone, there are consequences. The officer chokeholding Garner neglected legal conduct and a man died for it, and subsequently should face criminal prosecution. Garner was definitely resisting arrest when he was on his feet; when he was on the ground he was in no position to resist, and could at most threaten the police officers with a broken nose from a flailing elbow. I'd gladly have my nose broken if it meant someone could be alive.
Also, the comments made on the police forum are absolutely disgusting.
For what it's worth, I agree with you on all points.
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Did this guy have some kind of condition? The force used was most definitely not enough to kill anyone unless it also was paired with a person having some underlying risk factors. The cop was in the wrong no doubt because he did do a choke hold, which is a forbidden move, but a lot of the people in this thread are blowing this way way out there and need to calm down before they reply because clearly some emotions are getting in the way.
This anti-police shit needs to stop too. You become part of the problem because you are basically justifying some of those cop opinions about the public and they become even more jumpy when they are in the street and stuff like this is more prone to happen because it promotes people not respecting police and resisting and attempting to pull something while dealing with them. You also have to remember that from a cop's perspective they don't fucking know who is going to do something crazy and try to kill them and in fact being "nice" has gotten plenty of cops killed which is why they operate with overwhelming force in the first place when confronting a person who is resisting or w/e. They also have interactions with people/criminals THOUSANDS of times a day, so is it so surprising that SOME of them end up going wrong? Yet we never hear about the "good" interactions with police people have just the bad ones that make national news. What are the actual numbers on this type of incidents? Yes there will always be bad apples and defensive measures taken by the police when they get under fire etc but on the whole people who want to try to improve the police and how they deal with the public don't actually do anything but scream and shout when a story like this breaks. The real truth is that its a complex problem that is impossible to fix 100% because its people dealing with people and its impossible for both sides to both act "the right way" (depending on what your definition of the right way even is) when they are dealing with each other and of course the police will never be perfect in weeding out people not fit for the job or tracking people whose mindset might have shifted into bad territory through their experiences.
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On July 25 2014 14:14 Slaughter wrote: Did this guy have some kind of condition? The force used was most definitely not enough to kill anyone unless it also was paired with a person having some underlying risk factors. The cop was in the wrong no doubt because he did do a choke hold, which is a forbidden move, but a lot of the people in this thread are blowing this way way out there and need to calm down before they reply because clearly some emotions are getting in the way.
This anti-police shit needs to stop too. You become part of the problem because you are basically justifying some of those cop opinions about the public and they become even more jumpy when they are in the street and stuff like this is more prone to happen because it promotes people not respecting police and resisting and attempting to pull something while dealing with them. You also have to remember that from a cop's perspective they don't fucking know who is going to do something crazy and try to kill them and in fact being "nice" has gotten plenty of cops killed which is why they operate with overwhelming force in the first place when confronting a person who is resisting or w/e. They also have interactions with people/criminals THOUSANDS of times a day, so is it so surprising that SOME of them end up going wrong? Yet we never hear about the "good" interactions with police people have just the bad ones that make national news. What are the actual numbers on this type of incidents? Yes there will always be bad apples and defensive measures taken by the police when they get under fire etc but on the whole people who want to try to improve the police and how they deal with the public don't actually do anything but scream and shout when a story like this breaks. The real truth is that its a complex problem that is impossible to fix 100% because its people dealing with people and its impossible for both sides to both act "the right way" (depending on what your definition of the right way even is) when they are dealing with each other and of course the police will never be perfect in weeding out people not fit for the job or tracking people whose mindset might have shifted into bad territory through their experiences.
The police officer assaulted the civilian in a way which is specifically prohibited for them, and it's specifically prohibited for a reason, and the man is dead as a result of the officer disobeying it. What part of that don't you understand? It didn't "Go wrong". The officer *did something wrong* and killed somebody as a result of it.
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On July 25 2014 14:55 -Kaiser- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 14:14 Slaughter wrote: Did this guy have some kind of condition? The force used was most definitely not enough to kill anyone unless it also was paired with a person having some underlying risk factors. The cop was in the wrong no doubt because he did do a choke hold, which is a forbidden move, but a lot of the people in this thread are blowing this way way out there and need to calm down before they reply because clearly some emotions are getting in the way.
This anti-police shit needs to stop too. You become part of the problem because you are basically justifying some of those cop opinions about the public and they become even more jumpy when they are in the street and stuff like this is more prone to happen because it promotes people not respecting police and resisting and attempting to pull something while dealing with them. You also have to remember that from a cop's perspective they don't fucking know who is going to do something crazy and try to kill them and in fact being "nice" has gotten plenty of cops killed which is why they operate with overwhelming force in the first place when confronting a person who is resisting or w/e. They also have interactions with people/criminals THOUSANDS of times a day, so is it so surprising that SOME of them end up going wrong? Yet we never hear about the "good" interactions with police people have just the bad ones that make national news. What are the actual numbers on this type of incidents? Yes there will always be bad apples and defensive measures taken by the police when they get under fire etc but on the whole people who want to try to improve the police and how they deal with the public don't actually do anything but scream and shout when a story like this breaks. The real truth is that its a complex problem that is impossible to fix 100% because its people dealing with people and its impossible for both sides to both act "the right way" (depending on what your definition of the right way even is) when they are dealing with each other and of course the police will never be perfect in weeding out people not fit for the job or tracking people whose mindset might have shifted into bad territory through their experiences. The police officer assaulted the civilian in a way which is specifically prohibited for them, and it's specifically prohibited for a reason, and the man is dead as a result of the officer disobeying it. What part of that don't you understand? It didn't "Go wrong". The officer *did something wrong* and killed somebody as a result of it.
Did you read my post? I said the cop was in the wrong, I was primarily talking about a larger problem.
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On July 25 2014 11:22 tokicheese wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2014 04:14 rd wrote:On July 23 2014 14:26 Odoakar wrote:On July 23 2014 06:36 rd wrote: Okay, the video posted in the OP is extremely biased. I read the thread before watching the video, and I'm glad I did, because my expectations were much higher than what I actually witnessed. Everything the police did in arresting this man seemed fine -- EXCEPT for the chokehold. It definitely did not appear like the officer chokeholding him had any intent of murdering him. The brutality has been way over exaggerated.
That being said, when a civilian accidentally kills someone, there are consequences. The officer chokeholding Garner neglected legal conduct and a man died for it, and subsequently should face criminal prosecution. Garner was definitely resisting arrest when he was on his feet; when he was on the ground he was in no position to resist, and could at most threaten the police officers with a broken nose from a flailing elbow. I'd gladly have my nose broken if it meant someone could be alive.
Also, the comments made on the police forum are absolutely disgusting.
Yeah, I hear him being dead is also highly exaggerated. The dudes is probably chilling somewhere. -_- ok. Come back when you watch some of the other notorious police brutality videos and actually witness a psychotic cop attempt to murder a suspect with intent. Who the fuck cares how violent it looked? The dude is fucking dead... He got choked out in cold blood and was murdered.
Clearly you don't, because if this man is to be charged for a crime, then its pretty important to specify where his actions lie in the varying degrees of murder. In law, you aren't just slapped with a universal murder charge because someone died through your actions. There are psychotic murderers who chop up people in their basement, there are drivers who get into accidents which they didn't cause. Intent is key.
When examining the video, the officer looks like a reckless rookie trying to take down someone much bigger than him, not a cold blooded killer who choke holds at any opportunity for the thrill of murder. So again, please do go examine the other videos and witness cops who actually killed with intent. This officer most certainly did not intend death, nor serious injury, no matter how negligent his actions were.
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On July 23 2014 11:58 Hazzyboy wrote: Such cops are in every country - problem is their colleagues go easy on them if they happen to break law.
I highly doubt IA in any police department goes easy on any cop(s) that are involved in a questionable occurrence. It's their job to look into these kind of things, and they don't just let stuff go or sweep it under the rug.
Accidental death, they won't see any jail/prison time, they'll probably get fired or at the very least suspended without pay.
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So, killing someone out of "accident" with your bare Hands gets you fired?
Wow.. Just wow...
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On July 26 2014 05:20 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 11:22 tokicheese wrote:On July 24 2014 04:14 rd wrote:On July 23 2014 14:26 Odoakar wrote:On July 23 2014 06:36 rd wrote: Okay, the video posted in the OP is extremely biased. I read the thread before watching the video, and I'm glad I did, because my expectations were much higher than what I actually witnessed. Everything the police did in arresting this man seemed fine -- EXCEPT for the chokehold. It definitely did not appear like the officer chokeholding him had any intent of murdering him. The brutality has been way over exaggerated.
That being said, when a civilian accidentally kills someone, there are consequences. The officer chokeholding Garner neglected legal conduct and a man died for it, and subsequently should face criminal prosecution. Garner was definitely resisting arrest when he was on his feet; when he was on the ground he was in no position to resist, and could at most threaten the police officers with a broken nose from a flailing elbow. I'd gladly have my nose broken if it meant someone could be alive.
Also, the comments made on the police forum are absolutely disgusting.
Yeah, I hear him being dead is also highly exaggerated. The dudes is probably chilling somewhere. -_- ok. Come back when you watch some of the other notorious police brutality videos and actually witness a psychotic cop attempt to murder a suspect with intent. Who the fuck cares how violent it looked? The dude is fucking dead... He got choked out in cold blood and was murdered. Clearly you don't, because if this man is to be charged for a crime, then its pretty important to specify where his actions lie in the varying degrees of murder. In law, you aren't just slapped with a universal murder charge because someone died through your actions. There are psychotic murderers who chop up people in their basement, there are drivers who get into accidents which they didn't cause. Intent is key. When examining the video, the officer looks like a reckless rookie trying to take down someone much bigger than him, not a cold blooded killer who choke holds at any opportunity for the thrill of murder. So again, please do go examine the other videos and witness cops who actually killed with intent. This officer most certainly did not intend death, nor serious injury, no matter how negligent his actions were.
Regardless of intent, the result is a dead man purely because of negligence, negligence from a man who should be very well trained in the task he was attempting to do. That NEEDS to have both some level of the police as a unit stepping forward to take ownership of the offense, and publicizing a punishment. They need to show that they know and accept that how this played out is unacceptable, and if their employees are in a position where their mistake can take an otherwise functioning life then there need to be measures in place to prevent that from happening or greatly discourage the possibility.
There should be no profession where killing a man over a petty crime isn't considered murder.
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It's not like they first tried to do it with ''normal'' measures. The officer immediately choked him, which, as stated a million times before is completely illegal. There were atleast 4 cops vs one unarmed, not even very fit (from what we can see) man, there is no need for violence from the police even CLOSE to that fucking level. It's just insane. If you go straight for a choke when you try to arrest someone, while it specifically stated that it's PROHIBITED for officers of the law to do so, you KNOW if you've got half a brain cell you could seriously injure or as we've seen here, fucking MURDER someone by doing such things you're either a special kind of retard or just a racist who should at the very least be locked up for life. Sadly, they're going to get away with this like they pretty much always do because 'murica, and there's nothing to do about it. Makes me want something worse than prison but not so 'easy' as death penalty. Cops like these are fucking disgusting.
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this is just completely unreasonable... i mean what else can we comment on other than the fact that this is just senseless police brutality? i mean other than the fact the confronting officer was A LOT smaller than Garner and probably felt threatened by Garner's size, there isn't much of a justification to Garner's unfortunate demise...
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